I've been thinking about the whole "Used games are killing the industry"-mess again and although I'd agree that most publishers are a bunch of huge f*ckers trying to nickel and dime us for every piece of "extra" content, I think that a build-in mechanism preventing us from reselling our games could improve the current situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm neither on the side of the publishers nor on the side of gamestop. They brought this mess upon themselves by A) fixing the price for new retail games at 70 euro (~90 us dollar) thus making it literally impossible for most to buy more than one (non-used) game a month and B) gamestop not being willing to share their profits with the publishers.

But here's the thing: Let’s assume that if the next generation of consoles links game copies to your console-id or your account and thus prevents us from trading in. The publishers will still try to sell us those new games for 70 bucks at first. But no one will be able to trade in games and people will be short on money for gaming related stuff, so in the end most gamers will tend to only purchase "safe" titles (big franchises etc). But these titles do only come out once a year limiting publisher to just a handful of viable projects.

This sounds dire for us but also means less profit for them and so publishers will probably lower the price wall to allow the customer to take more risks with their purchases again. And this, THIS could make things better. Imagine games being sold for 40 bucks … that would be alright wouldn't it. Imagine also that the console-lock isn't as harsh as you think now, making games transferable or giftable. Wouldn't that be great as well?

Of course there is no guarantee for this to be the outcome. But at least I hope it will be. Fact is that something regarding used game sales will happen and I hope it will make things better for us the consumer in the end.

And no let the poo flinging begin because I am 100% sure that 80% of you guys won't agree with me.

I suppose that in the very long term the problem could naturally sort itself out, but in the meantime that includes a lot of suffering for the gaming industry.

yes, the situation is simply that the value of being able to resell a game is included in the purchase price, so any fluctuations in the ability for a game to be resold should be reflected with changes in the purchase price.

a more interesting discussion would be regarding the differing transaction costs and conveniences among the multiple purchase methods.

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

Its a good theory, but until it happens its all future music.
 
You're right with the price point.
I have a small income, enough bills and stuff to take care of, it barely leaves me with enough to buy a second hand game for half price or something.
I could squeeze more out, and I do for the big purchases (Gears 3, Zelda, whatever), but I'll miss out on a lot of games if second hand sales go away.
I just won't have the money to keep up with the games I'm fan of, the new franchises with potential that I want to support and the games I missed/aren't sure about if they're worth full price since it might not be my genre.
 
It can be quite the expensive hobby.

 publishers will probably lower the price...  Imagine games being sold for 40 bucks  

@Vegetable_Side_Dish: I know it's quite optimistic ...

Used games are not killing the industry. It's just a convenient boogey-man.

The industry is killing itself. Happens to all hyper-competitive industries.

furthermore the Used business itself is shrinking on its' own in response to digital downloads, so reform itself is un-needed. Technology will solve this "problem" for the publishers.

@the_red_mage said:

But here's the thing: Let’s assume that if the next generation of consoles links game copies to your console-id or your account and thus prevents us from trading in. The publishers will still try to sell us those new games for 70 bucks at first. But no one will be able to trade in games and people will be short on money for gaming related stuff, so in the end most gamers will tend to only purchase "safe" titles (big franchises etc). But these titles do only come out once a year limiting publisher to just a handful of viable projects.

This sounds dire for us but also means less profit for them and so publishers will probably lower the price wall to allow the customer to take more risks with their purchases again. And this, THIS could make things better. Imagine games being sold for 40 bucks … that would be alright wouldn't it. Imagine also that the console-lock isn't as harsh as you think now, making games transferable or giftable. Wouldn't that be great as well?

Economics doesn't work that way. If you think removing competition (used games for consumer dollars) leads to lower prices you are wrong. Used games might be the reason new games are so inexpensive today. Games today are still the same price they were twenty years ago, despite large inflation.

e.g. gas is 300% higher, Gold is 800% higher, Milk is 120% higher, Paper is 80% higher etc. Yet new games are still in the 50-60 dollar range. Part of that undoubtedly is a change of the format from cartridges to discs, but a big part of it is consumer willingness to pay for new titles too.

Ultimately what this would/will do is reduce the gaming market and over time make the % of people playing games shrink. And when a company loses volume they often are forced to either raise prices or slash costs (and likely quality as a result) or both to maintain solvency. Every company has some level of fixed costs they have to cover, whether they have enough margin too or not.

Publishers should stop whining about used games which actually help them get new customers & a larger potential audience and instead focus on adding value to New titles that grow their sales.

and I hope it will make things better for us the consumer in the end.

if they take your right to sell your own property away from you, I can't see how it could be.

Personally I'd probably quit console gaming altogether if they did this. I'm not going to drop hundreds of dollars into an essentially single use device like a console for the privilege to essentially rent 70 dollar games that will last maybe 5 years before planned obsolescence. Might as well go strictly PC if that happens, then at least I get more value out of the machine.

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

Used game sales are probably well low on the list of things that are hurting the industry. But it's easier to galvanize a pretty dumb consumer group against an unscrupulous retail chain than to wean them off AAA HD titles with bloated budgets, Steam sales, loss leader console sale strategies and whatever else the industry is doing to destroy itself.

I'm wondering if this will just go away on its own eventually. Possibly with digital distribution.

Or CD keys. PC games have had those for decades and its worked out okay.

If anything would kill the industry it would be them trying to prevent reselling while also charging $60 + for their games.  Sorry fellas, but it just isn't going to happen.  Gaming is an expensive hobby as it is without you trying to nickel and dime us out of even more cash.
 
The problem is that there is not really much of an option anymore for renting games either.  I can drive to a Redbox and rent dozens or maybe as many as a hundred different movies for around $1 a night.  We are talking about a huge variety and these tapes are also used and circulating around.  This same Redbox has...2 games I think?  Where are my options?
 
Can you imagine the movie industry trying to pull this with DVDs and BlueRays?  They would be laughed out of the building.

@the_red_mage said:

But here's the thing: Let’s assume that if the next generation of consoles links game copies to your console-id or your account and thus prevents us from trading in. The publishers will still try to sell us those new games for 70 bucks at first. But no one will be able to trade in games and people will be short on money for gaming related stuff, so in the end most gamers will tend to only purchase "safe" titles (big franchises etc). But these titles do only come out once a year limiting publisher to just a handful of viable projects.

That is the main reason why I hope they don't go with the idea. I think it'd be a nightmare for the industry (and the consumers). While the prices may very well drop eventually, it wouldn't happen before a lot of original/niche games simply don't get made anymore because people aren't willing to take the risk on them. There's only a few games I'm willing to pay full price for on day one. If I'm not sure about a game, I wait for it to go down. That usually means I buy it secondhand. Not always, but that's usually the case. I'd certainly buy a lot less games if this supposed plan goes ahead (which thankfully hasn't been confirmed by anyone yet).

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

I think there is another major point that you didn't touch upon. Gamestop, and any other retailer that sells used games sales, does not make that much profit out of new games. Certainly not enough to cover cost of maintaining a business. Publishers know that and they "unofficially" allow retailer to deal with used games because they know they need them in order to get to every possible potential buyer. It's really a sort of uneasy but necessary relationship the publishers and the retailers have.

Personally what gets to me is people saying it's causing developers to be shut down. This is the biggest piece of propaganda lie I've ever heard. Sure it cuts into the profit but it doesn't cause a big enough gap that makes a developers go under. When a developer goes under there are many factor that come into play and used games is not one of them.

Another point that irks me that people keep saying it's ruining the gaming industry. No it's not. What's ruining gaming industry is publishers and suits who understand nothing of gaming and to them we are all just walking wallets for them squeeze. Or PR people who keep getting their hands into the developers plate and telling them to change the game. What about publishers who keep practicing shady DLC businesses so they can get the extra $5-$10 out of the consumer and micro charge a game to death. What about publishers who keep pumping franchises year after year. What about publishers who still overcharge for games, go look at the prices for the older CoD games.

Now I know my post sounds like I think used games are a good thing, I don't. However to me they are like any other used product that you go buy. I see it as a necessary evil of sorts, No what's going to ruin the gaming industry is going to be the publishers. It just so happens that they have a black sheep to put their blame into it.

I never understood why people bitch about paying $60 per game when you can just wait it out 2 or 3 weeks (most of the time) and get it on sale. You are forcing yourself into paying full price.

@the_red_mage said:

This sounds dire for us but also means less profit for them and so publishers will probably lower the price wall to allow the customer to take more risks with their purchases again.

People /shouldn't/ take risks with their purchases. So if game prices went down to 50 US or even 40 US it would only be diminishing the problem by 1/6th or 1/3rd. With Gamefly I can rent 2-3 games month for even less than 1/3rd the cost of buying new.

Next gen must have digital rentals, otherwise games will have to be way cheaper and the cost made up with innovative DLC gouging or subscription fees, or making games episodal.

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

Please tell me where I can get PC games new at Steam sale prices. Those crazy sales don't come until long after a game has been out, and their console counterparts are about the same price. The only crazy deals on Steam are when you get developer packs, and those are always full of really old games as filler.

It would be nice if this translated to lower prices, but lets not kid ourselves here.

@mordukai: well said

@crusader8463 said:

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

Please tell me where I can get PC games new at Steam sale prices. Those crazy sales don't come until long after a game has been out, and their console counterparts are about the same price. The only crazy deals on Steam are when you get developer packs, and those are always full of really old games as filler.

the fact that you're unwilling to wait four to five months for 33% off sales means you are the kind of customer that does not need any compensation for losing their resell options.

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

Not even close here in the UK. If they're the same price elsewhere then elsewhere is getting screwed on PC game pricing.

I never trade in my games. I just don't have the need to get the little extra money you get when you do that. Besides, you get so much less money for what you paid for regardless of how it's condition.

I doubt they'll ever be transferable. You could effectively create a black market of used game sales by transferring games to people for money.

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

Please tell me where I can get PC games new at Steam sale prices. Those crazy sales don't come until long after a game has been out, and their console counterparts are about the same price. The only crazy deals on Steam are when you get developer packs, and those are always full of really old games as filler.

the fact that you're unwilling to wait four to five months for 33% off sales means you are the kind of customer that does not need any compensation for losing their resell options.

Sales aren't limited to the Steam service or PC platform, Amazon.ca has a sale of 33% off Skyrim going on right now regardless of what system you purchase it on. If you're going to be waiting 4 to 5 months for a game to go onto sale on Steam then chances are that by that time the console version will have had a price drop or a store like Amazon could be having a sale of its own. Ridiculous sales on Steam don't happen as often as people like to think they do unless it's Christmas time.

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

Please tell me where I can get PC games new at Steam sale prices. Those crazy sales don't come until long after a game has been out, and their console counterparts are about the same price. The only crazy deals on Steam are when you get developer packs, and those are always full of really old games as filler.

the fact that you're unwilling to wait four to five months for 33% off sales means you are the kind of customer that does not need any compensation for losing their resell options.

I never said I wasn't willing to wait, I was just calling you on your bullshit view that Steam does some crazy deals as soon as a game comes out. Outside of some awesome deals around Christmas time, or one of their big seasonal sales, Steam doesn't do anything crazy on brand new games that other retailers don't do for console games. In fact, Amazon.com has a shit ton of crazy deals all the dam time on brand new games long before Steam has anything even close to resembling the same price cuts. There has been the odd one from time to time, but Steam is not some magical land of games that cost next to nothing.

Publishers won't budge on the price of games that are clearly of lesser quality now, even though they know gamers have a used or rental option. Who seriously thinks they are going to lower prices once they have eliminated gamer choice in the marketplace?

I rarely buy used games, if it went away I wouldn't care....

@Slag: I appreciate this post.

One thing I'd like to add (although I'm from England). There are markets outside of the EU, Americas and Japan. Also, what a hell, get a PC.

I don't feel nickled, nor dimed at all.

@crusader8463 said:

@Levio said:

@crusader8463 said:

@the_red_mage said:

@Levio: The Your first two lines are probably the most accurate description of the current problem.

How is it included in the price? Last time I checked PC games cost just as much as console but we haven't been able to sell them used since the early 90's.

please tell me where I can get console games new at Steam-sale prices

Please tell me where I can get PC games new at Steam sale prices. Those crazy sales don't come until long after a game has been out, and their console counterparts are about the same price. The only crazy deals on Steam are when you get developer packs, and those are always full of really old games as filler.

You don't spend much time on steam. A lot of big titles end up getting pre-order discounts, and discounts shortly after release. On top of that, the sales often give you retail sized games for $5-10, which I don't think I've EVER seen a 360 or PS3 game going for new. I got Dead Space 1 and 2 for about 9 bucks a while back.

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

publishers will probably lower the price... Imagine games being sold for 40 bucks

Haha. You almost got me there, man!

yeah I agree, I don't see how that follows either. The gaming industry I know (publishers) will slit their own throat and choke on the blood before they give an inch. If anything I would expect to see prices increase - not necessarily the price tag on the box, but more stuff cut out and sold as DLC, more online-passes and similar, and in-game imaginary bits sold for $1-$5. It will be like the PC market but with no pricing pressures from alternate online outlets.

@mordukai said:

Another point that irks me that people keep saying it's ruining the gaming industry. No it's not. What's ruining gaming industry is publishers and suits who understand nothing of gaming and to them we are all just walking wallets for them squeeze. Or PR people who keep getting their hands into the developers plate and telling them to change the game. What about publishers who keep practicing shady DLC businesses so they can get the extra $5-$10 out of the consumer and micro charge a game to death. What about publishers who keep pumping franchises year after year. What about publishers who still overcharge for games, go look at the prices for the older CoD games.

I agree with you that this is a major problem in the industry but this one is even harder to solve. It's basically the old story about "the people with the money" influencing the projects that they are funding to increace the profits they'll get out of it. Happened with movies, comic books, tv shows and of course video games. But like I said this one is hard to tackle properly.

@NoobSauceG7 said:

I never trade in my games. I just don't have the need to get the little extra money you get when you do that. Besides, you get so much less money for what you paid for regardless of how it's condition.

Valid point but A) most games nowadays have either very little replay value or won't be replayed anyway due to the packed release schedule and B) I hate it when I have things that I don't need aynomre but could sell for a somewhat decent price lying around my house ... makes me feel stupid.

Although I could care less about used games, I dont think eliminating them will reduce the price at all. I mean, that's what everyone said about getting rid of the instruction booklets, and then that's what a lot of people said about in game advertising. Games have generally always been $60 to $80 (at least in Canada) for almost as long as I can remember.