as someone who's never played or even watched dota/hon/lol before the weekend, but a fan of esports who watched most of the gamescom dota2 tournament (and really enjoyed it):
i looked into dota/hon/lol, which definitely sparked a few concerns about how the concept is almost like beating a dead horse at this point. i totally understand the depth of gameplay behind the '3 paths crossing a river' scenario, but i also feel that dota has the potential to be a hugely successful 'complete' game if they could find a few equally complex BUT DIFFERENT scenario's. the main concern for me is that people could see the release of dota2 as 'just another dota clone' coming along to milk the scene dry. but i have faith in valve. they have made it as stylish and unique as possible without touching the essential formula. this will succeed in keeping dota veterans happy, but also attract new players. the new hero design and voice work possesses trademark valve humour and awesomeness... that's sold the game for me already.
Thats because to the outside world (people who don't play Dota), it looks like we are playing the same game. It took me 4 years(3 hours a day) to get over Dota1, and I just play LAN with a bunch of friends playing with other people.
@Aether said:
1. NO replay feature. Can a video can backtrack the replay from a different angle? 2. NO pause function. What if something goes wrong in the middle of a professional match? 3. NO observer feature. Can you view another area during a live match?
I agree that those feature most def should have been included. Especially the pause which i think is coming. But they recently (a few months ago) implemented their spectator (observer) mode for the tournaments. Made a huge difference then their previous form of just having a 6th invisible player with a fog of war summoner spell.
There has been a replay program but it isn't inherent to the actual game. It is 3rd party and kinda borked but it is there. Its main problem is for whatever reason health and cooldowns are never captured correctly so it can be frustrating when watching them. Just another one of those things that they said they are working on to make inherent in the game.
The main reason i really keep playing LoL more is because it is casual friendly. My friends just couldn't penetrate DotA and it was just extremely frustrating for them to get dominated damn near every game by people who know what they are doing, to the point where they weren't learning anything. Was just feed fests and quick games because they would get denied and harassed so much.
Yep, the learning curve is way too steep. Steeper than EvE Online. This is the biggest problem of Dota1. Although you guys could have played with AI first, just to get the feel of the game and grasp its basics.
@yorro: As with every competitive game. The game is only as casual as your opponents. No one is considering SC2 a casual game, despite it's colorful art style. Anyway. I am new to MOBA, but common sense tells me that LoL, certainly will move into the "casual and more variety" direction. It's hard to fight a uphill battle against the Valve behemoth, who can promote his game every time you start up Steam.
The only reason Dota exists today as the same map for over 6 years is because of its deep gameplay(it will only get deeper due to its limitations being lifted). When you play for years, I can guarantee you as every Dota player will, you will keep learning.
The reasons why LOL IS FOR KIDS(Casual Gamers): First of all, when say for-kids I meant less strategy, silly competitive gaming, passive gaming, and has players who play once a month(Casual Gamers)
1. Passivity 2. Overpowered towers, this gives players a sensation of safety and relaxation which promotes passivity 3. Mistakes are not punished properly which again promotes passive gaming. IE: When you die, you don't lose gold. 4. No complex skills (IE Rupture), LOL Lead Designed made this clear. 5. TOP REASON - Not viable for competitive gaming AKA for kids.
I agree with pretty much all of the reasons you have given except for the last one. There is a competitive gaming scene. The stream record being broken and tournament games with prize pools (albeit nothing spectacular in terms of money) have already shown this. If you don't like it that's fine but it already exists and will continue to exist. I have my LoL friends and DoTA friends. When i want a more laid back game with my friends, i will play LoL. When i want to play solo and be competitive i will play DoTA.
DoTA has been out for years and has had a community that has stayed strong to support it. LoL has a couple of years and is still growing, and with its more casual friendly game play will continue to grow. There is room for both. The only community i see potentially shrinking will be the HoN community. Something being aimed at kids does not make it garbage or for the painfully retarded. I know we like to polarize everything so we feel more comfortable with the choices and games we end up sticking with but in the MOBA community this shit has always seemed insane because to the people outside it, we are apparently all playing the same game.
I've bolded that last one so someone might see it and question it. Glad someone did.
5. TOP REASON - viable for competitive gaming.
Viable meaning suitable or appropriate to a purpose.
Suitable is not equal to impossible. Yes, there are tournaments for LOL that exists, but that doesn't mean suitable. Anyone with the right amount of money can have a tournament just ask the people who made ROCK-PAPER-SCISSOR Championship (or the Toe Wrestling Championship)
Another 3 reasons why LoL is not suitable for competitive gaming:
1. NO replay feature. Can a video can backtrack the replay from a different angle? 2. NO pause function. What if something goes wrong in the middle of a professional match? 3. NO observer feature. Can you view another area during a live match? Dota is from 2003. No excuse.
Add those to the already mentioned list and you have nickelodeon.
Sure it might have its tourneys and a newly "popular" competitive scene. But it's just a big illusion, it's just Riot buying its image all the way to the "top". I remember very well when they were insulting on DotA with some big ads on Garena and stuff. Very unprofessional and disrespectful to a huge community that of Dota.
LoL is more of a casual game, it's not bad when you are really bored and you wanna play it. Although I am already seeing signs that LoL is crumbling.
@Entus: im so annoyed with people saying LOL is dota for kids. LOL has so many more updates. new champs all the time. a whole new gametype comi coming. they are trying to do something new. dota 2 sounds like its literally the same game weve played for years straight. they cant even make new characters? ng. even if they are basically the same at least make them slightly different. LOL has different champs. dota 2 basically means if you havent been playing HON or dota you will just be killed over and over because most people that will be playing have been playing that same game for years. and im not a LOL fanboy. i paid for HON and played dota. but i got bored and wanted something new. everything in LOL was new and different. even the art srtyle i was just hoping they would somehow come out with something new. just new heroes or powers. dont get me wrong im gonna play dota 2 especially since itll be free most likely... (i wonder how they will make money? skins and shit i guess like LOL?) but from the games i wastched of it it was the exact same in every way to dota 1 and HON.
"its literally the same game weve played for years straight?" Any Dota player can tell you that version 6.01 and 6.72 are two completely different maps(thats not even a major version update).
If you think Dota are not having updates then check out this link: http://www.playdota.com/changelogs/6.72f The changes you see there are just from 6.72b to 6.72f (not even a full iteration, just a minor update LMAO)
"They can't make new characters?"
From version 6.60 to 6.70 There are 8 new heroes. (and I haven't included the items yet).
The updates I mentioned were done voluntarily by Icefrog, LOL developers on the other hand gets paid (comparing a community-based mod to a fully backed game is weak argument BTW). Now that Icefrog develops Dota2 as a full time job, we are likely to see more updates.
The reasons why LOL IS FOR KIDS(Casual Gamers):
First of all, when say for-kids I meant less strategy, silly competitive gaming, passive gaming, and has players who play once a month(Casual Gamers)
1. Passivity 2. Overpowered towers, this gives players a sensation of safety and relaxation which promotes passivity 3. Mistakes are not punished properly which again promotes passive gaming. IE: When you die, you don't lose gold. 4. No complex skills (IE Rupture), LOL Lead Designed made this clear. 5. TOP REASON - Not viable for competitive gaming AKA for kids.
A simple view of LOL's at the bright colored map, characters, creeps is enough to show it's targetting the masses, your typical 12-years old cousin, your little brother (KIDS)
I have played a years game of LOL, 7 years of Dota, and 2 years of HON. I can tell that you don't even play Dota that much that you can't even have a proper argument (Using updates as a counter argument for LOL-being-for-kids is just pathetic).
I have dozens of reasons why LOL is for kids. Simply put, if you play LOL you are either a kid, a casual gamer, or a retard.
So is this game just Dota with nicer graphics? Seems like its the same heroes, same map, same powers, same items.... why would i switch to this then? With games like heroes of newerth and league of legends out they should try to innovate at least a little bit.....
"Don't fix it if it ain't broken. "
Dota is best for what it is. HON is trying hard copy cat of Dota1 that has too many broken heroes. LOL is Dota for kids.
Is this going to be set on "300 years later"? Because I noticed a robot on that image, could be AI. Note that there were no mechanized units mentioned in the first game.
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