@boozak: Billy Gunn was never good.

@oldirtybearon: lmao the way you phrased that i thought it was gonna be a link to a blog post proving me wrong, but nope you literally just posted one example and it barely correlates

@nicked said:

As much as I may disagree with people who do believe this way for specific reasons I shant get into it right now, I have no business arguing to anyone whether they should or should not view something as sexist. At least, if that's how I've presented it, then I've committed a foolish mistake in my rhetoric and deserve the emotional fallout. As someone who has seen too many of these arguments not to have adapted long ago, I can't bring myself to even come close to using the word should concerning others' value judgements placed on media if all it comes down to is their subjective experience. Start claiming unfounded specifics or methodological errors, and I'm all over that. Opinions? What can I possibly do to that? Leave people to it and move on and extract whatever use I will out of it.

It certainly is attempting to be sexy and we can all agree to that based on what we've discussed so far. Sexist? That's for each person to judge and feel right enough about to argue. For me I can't bring myself to do it one way or another. That's just how I've been operating for years now and it frankly makes these discussions somewhat difficult to participate in without lecturing yet again.

@posh: if you can only be arsed to click one of half a dozen links then I think we're done here.

@posh: each word is linked to a seperate box art

@oldirtybearon: i was viewing it on a tablet, couldn't see the separate links. i clicked them all anyway, they still barely correlate to the extent women are objectified in box art. also please for the love of god stop wording your posts like a complete asshole

Women, remember to always face forward lest you tempt us men to gaze longingly at your buttocks

@posh: So first you move goal posts and now you're calling me names.

Real mature there, duder.

@posh:

:)

What's wrong with butt shots?

@bacongames: That's a reasonable stance. The problem with "sex negative" feminists is that I view their actions as more oppressive than liberating. One tricky thing is the whole idea of sexual objectification.

Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person merely as an instrument of sexual pleasure, making them a "sex object". Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object, without regard to their personality or dignity. Objectification is most commonly examined at the level of a society, but can also refer to the behavior of individuals. -Wikipedia

Now, when they say disregard I'm never sure exactly what people are referring to. If I see an attractive model in a magazine, the only thing that I'm thinking is "that woman is attractive" I'm not giving thought to her personal life or beliefs. Is that objectification and if so, how is that different from the way I perceive the person who bags my groceries? I know they have personal thoughts and emotions. I don't concern myself with them. The only purpose they have to me at the moment is to bag my stuff, just like the only purpose the models serve to me is to look good. I still respect them as a human being and do nothing to violate their basic human rights.

Now it seems they would be talking about sexual harassment and assault, which is perfectly reasonable. In that situation I am actively violating their human rights and placing them secondary to my own personal desires. But so often you hear these feminist complaining about how women are sexualized in the media.

I think the logical flaw in this is that they are confusing inclusion with exclusion. SImply because in that ad the women is only meant to be attractive does not mean that they are saying that's the only use that women have. Acknowledging the sexual aspect of a women is not inherently dehumanizing. It is part of being a human. To say the fashion models are pushing the idea that women are only good for being sexy is like saying the male basketball players are pushing the idea that men are only good for playing basketball.

Example of sex negative feminism

"broader cultural implications" I guess.

@penguindust: I never knew how nice Mickey's ass was.

You just don't see a lot of it.

Everything's sexist, apparently.

@fluxwavez: The only person that I think is calling this sexist is posh.

I guess I kind of did but it was more to point out that it goes both ways?

Oh so "Brazilian Butts"?

Unintentional Pun Man strikes again!

@commandergermanshepard: Yeah. I thought that was pretty good for how cheeky it was.

You know, I'm 90% certain that's intentional. But that's an awful big 10% saying "...maybe not?"

You've really hit rock bottom now!

There seem to be several people on these forums that think way too fucking hard about everything. Your time and efforts have all been wasted. Congratulations.

Bullshit. Those pants aren't nearly as tight and form-fitting as they should be, and she's not popping her ass out nearly enough.

You want gratuitous?

Much better.

For a game that advertises itself as a cut above the rest in terms of in depth story and strong characters, this peripheral-vision grabbing box art is definitely beneath it. Its not a huge deal, but its definitely a "sex sells" situation.

I do not appreciate being the butt of your jokes.

For a game that seemed cool and narratively serious, it's really silly and a little disappointing that the boxart has a great big, deliberately eye-catching "HEY LOOK HERE!" highlight on the booty.

@oldirtybearon: Lara's surprisingly normal looking in the new Tomb Raider so not particularly sure why you would be enamored with her chest in particular. Maybe her ruggedness and numerous scars by the end including several on her face and arms which open the way up for her to look like a psychopath in the next game (hopefully), which would be accurate to her character arc.

They're just going for that way of a character standing with their back to you and head turned back thing, it seems like a classic in making the person/character look badass like @penguindust posted, I guess its a problem because she's female then? That almost seems more sexist to me than the supposed gratuitous butt shot. If they were really going for the whole sex sells thing, it would look like Miranda's a couple posts up. I'm not saying this kinda thing hasn't been a problem, but in this particular case I don't think it is, oh well this is just my opinion as far as the box art goes, have not seen the rest of the game so I could be wrong.

@mcghee: I totally remember Miranda gratuitous booty shots in Mass Effect; I don't think I've seen a jarring offender like that since and from what I hear about Remember Me it doesn't seem like they're actually taking it to that level.

@fredchuckdave said:

I don't get it either. It's just a very nice set of boobs. Let me be clear: I have no idea why I kept glancing at her boobs but I found myself doing it all the time during the game. I'm not saying this is positive, or it's okay, but it is what I was doing. I made the correlation between my experience with Tomb Raider and the OP on Remember Me because it's same experience. He's enamoured with her bum the same way I was enamoured with Lara's breasts.

This thread is still going? Just because a woman's ass is on the cover doesn't mean the ass was the thing they wanted you to see, it's only part of it. Guess what, we all have an ass, and everyone can see it when you turn your back to them.

@oldirtybearon: Your username certainly fits you.

Maybe it's just me, but that camera feels very strategically placed. I'm not complaining, just an observation. I will still complain about the game's boring box art however.

But here's the thing - that exact same tight camera is used in Resident Evil, Gears of War, the Batman Arkham games, and a host of others. Go ahead and look at gameplay of those during "quiet" or "expository" moments. It's literally the exact same camera angle.

I'm not calling you a sexist for looking at her bum a lot, or whatever the popular buzzwords are. What I am saying is that in this one instance, it could be you and not the games industry.

I legitimately laughed out loud at that.

But yeah, everyone in this thread is the reason we can't have nice things. I hate you all.

In the visual arts, we use light and shadow to catch the eye and draw the viewer's attention immediately to certain parts of the work. The eye-catching booty highlight was 100% intentional. Is it automatically sexist? Not really. Is it silly and hard to take seriously? It sure is!

@oldirtybearon: Fair enough. Now I can rest well with this personal mystery solved.

@kentonclay: Yeah, I get that, I'm in visual arts myself. I know our eyes travel to brighter spots first. But it's also a question of balance and contrasts. Sure it's perphaps a little too bright, but they're emphasizing more than just her butt. I just don't get why it's an issue, why would they shy away from it. It's not like she's on all fours wearing a thong with a spotlight shining on it. They wanted an attractive cover and one little thing among many other they focused on was her perfectly reasonable derriere.

@oldirtybearon: But it's not a very nice set by any particular measure; I suppose you could have a fondness for how normal she looks a la Rachel McAdams or something; but say 75% of women you come across will have a comparable rack to new Lara; must be troublesome for you.

It seems video game boxart has 2 variations. We have from behind as discussed and shown above or from the front, as demonstrated in this video:

The actual game on the other hand is looking pretty damn fine.

For more crazy good images go to Dead End Thrills, he says the game looks great.

@cirdain: Is the main character a crack whore?

You know at first I thought you were joking but then I remembered that this game runs off interacting with other peoples memories. Maybe the over arching story of the game is that the main character delves into other peoples memories too much and gets a high off the effects so I guess the answer to your question is: probably yes.

I think this is funny:

I'm really not seeing what's gratuitous about it. Like, sure, there's a butt, and there's also a whole person attached to it. Most butts you'll find, in fact, aren't just butts.

@mlarrabee: I thought that was funny too

This thread already got the mod treatment.

@rainbowkisses: I am a ass man so let's hope so.