Endurance Run: Chrono Trigger - Part 32

Arggg... why do they insist on making this game so hard on themselves? I mean, seriously, they kick out Bagus in favor of Brono so they'll continue to have access to Cure Wave, and then they don't even use it? Patrick was right in thinking they shouldn't have taken out the core first, but had they just used the occasional Cure Wave this fight would've still been perfectly managable.

Yeah they need to vary up their use of characters to get some more dual techs....

@Snowsprite: Ha ha true. They aren't using Dual or Triple techs. They'd probably shit bricks if they used Triple Raid and found out it did over 2000+ damage to the Zombor clone.

They should also try Ayla out she's very useful.

@bluecollaralaskan said:

is it just me or does Patrick seem like kind of a back seat driver. I feel like he tries to micro manage the way Ryan plays a little too much. Extra input is always good, but sometimes he takes it a little too far. Not all the time, but there have been a few episodes where I thought to myself, if I was controlling the game, and had him yapping like that, I'd want to punch him..

To some extent, but Ryan seems to totally ignore almost every single Enemy Status message, their names, the health of his team, etc. So many times, Patrick suggests a heal and Ryan goes, "Oh, right."

Yeah, I think the final fight with Lavos is going to be awesome. It's even better since they got that "sneak peek" a bit earlier in the endurance run. :)

Thank God Brog is back in the middle. It was really stressing me out when he was third and Bobo was middle.

@Turambar said:

Look at the giant psychodelic fro-that didn't do shit.

keep thinking that guy could be the inspiration for Hypnotoad!

Bobo and Brog can do Cure Wave together but Ryan and Patrick keep overlooking it!! That would solve the bulk of their problems. Grrr....

Another full hour endurance run? Is it my birthday?

They have read over Cure Wave lots of times, but I think they think its Bobo's single tech cure and not a heal all dual tech.

@ThatFrood: A paradox!

Person who needs help...is that Kino? She's lovers(?) with Byla, so that could be it. Never played this game before btw. Just throwing out guesses.

Beside the point, they really need to start using cure wave, the double tech between brog and bobo. Its basically cure2 to everyone. Would be much more effective than using cure beam then trying to use cure2.

@wolf_blitzer85 said:

Okay they read the dual techs, and acknowledged Cure Wave's existence. Baby steps, but steps nonetheless. Watching them grow brings a tear to my eye.

Just messing around with different stuff can yield unexpected results. It just really seems like they don't care about the game at all, and are just doing it to have some content. We've already heard them make fun of JRPGs more than anything else, ever. The joke is that they're fucking up so bad because they're buying into the stereotypical bullshit people attribute to JRPGs in sweeping generalization.

-They never even consider the possibilities of an elemental absorb vest (playing blind, they have no way of knowing about the elemental mail upgrades). Also, they don't understand the difference between "cuts" and "absorbs."

-They almost never bother to test out at a new ability; seeing Confuse neglected for Spincut hurts my soul. It doesn't take long to confirm whether or not something's gonna suck. Also, basic math and pattern recognition would tell you "Leap Slash = 600 or Spincut = 900 < Uzzi Punch = 1000-1500. They love Robo for his power, then sideline him as a healer, and he's slow on top of that. I'd think Ryan and Patrick would at least give him a Silver Stud to reduce the cost of what they would should rightfully assume to be the most powerful single-member, single-target tech they own (given what they've used, or what they haven't bothered to use, anyway).

-They almost never bother with any other characters; It blows seeing Ayla unused for the Blackbird segment, while she was the first solution I thought of at age 15. She's also the most physically powerful character in the game, and essentially has the ability to steal. I chuckled, knowing they could've Charmed a Speed Tab out of this boss's core...and Robo's slow ass could definitely use some.

-They don't even bother to open chests that aren't painfully obvious to get to (Denadoro Mountains). Dammit, this game's been doing all sorts of tricks with its semi-top down viewpoint to hide pathways. They also don't reopen a bunch of chests after a wipe; I can only assume this is due to short attention span/poor eyesight/bad memory...these are easy ways to tell someone's either tired, or doesn't care. I'm gonna bring back the fact that they got an Epoch with wings, and still whined like high school girls over "having" to walk around in the Sewers and go through two Labs in 2300AD.

-They don't pay attention to anything other than surface level things or armor/weapons with higher numbers. Remember when they put a Hit Ring on Magus? I was hoping they'd notice his attack didn't go up. I'm sure a bunch of us actually read Frog Squash's description. Frog/Chrono use different types of swords. Hero Badge raises the crit rate of Masamune. I'll be the first to admit, there aren't a lot of helpful descriptions early in the game, like those for Rollo Kick and Cat Attack, but I'd think that would draw more attention to descriptions that don't follow that non-logic. Hero Badge doesn't say "Is a Hero's Badge."

If anything, going back to see the Persona 4 ER I'd never bothered to watch, Jeff and Vinny have been doing a fantastic job of learning. They used to laugh at things like status effects, calling them "lame." Now, I see them using status effects/status healing items, saving money, and reading/remembering descriptions and connections. Those guys actually tried some different stuff that ended up working out for them. I've been very impressed so far, here at episode 80.

Awww they never got the Marle conversation/animations.

@CaptainSandwich said:

*long, spergy rant*

Seriously, dude?

Guys, I only ask one thing of you.

Use Confuse. Trust me. It's not lame status magic. You're wasting your time with Spincut. Do this one thing and the rest of the game will go SO much better for you.

Remember in the first episode when Patrick says "you definitely want to go Active, otherwise there's no action".  And now they're all bummed out because they can't keep up with the enemies.  I wonder why he thought it was a good idea.
 
 
Chrono Trigger is not a hard game.  It's not an especially mechanically dense game.  But our staffers are just... they're being beaten by the game.  And I don't understand it.  This isn't Dark Souls, this is an extremely forgiving RPG that I beat as an 11 year old.  And as a 23 year old.

They're doing ok, their healer robut isn't good enough at healing, thats all.

I'm glad these are slowly getting longer.

They are so bad it gives me schadenfreude! I love it!

I've never played Chrono Trigger, so experiencing this game with the GB crew at the same time is awesome, and I've loved it all so far. That said, man, Cure Wave is right there. It would have saved you from death in both of those boss attempts, and with careful timing, there's no reason you couldn't beat this boss just using that one heal. It's doing the work of three of Bobo's Heal Beams in one turn, and the MP cost is nothing for what you get.

Can't speak to any other dual techs or advanced tactics because I've never played it, but tactical use of Cure Wave seems like it will be important through to the end of the game.

@SethMode said:

@MrBlueJackle said:

@SethMode said:

@supertuna said:

@SethMode said:

I'm enjoying this ER, and am not one to correct how they're playing, but the comment by Ryan of "So far this game has never presented us with a combat scenario that you couldn't think your way out of...it didn't have to be all brute force" made me chuckle.

He is correct, except maybe for one boss battle or two. I love this and other old SNES JRPGs, but the gameplay feels outdated even for me.

I would say they have been employing brute force pretty much consistently and rarely thinking their way out of combat scenarios. Which is why so many fights that are typically not that hard have been difficult for them. Although I do agree, the fact that you can succeed that way definitely shows that CT is extremely forgiving.

'Cept that part where they sit and think about how to beat almost every boss they've fought...

Your memory is as selective as theirs.

I guess...maybe I am just saying that their way of "thinking" their way out of a combat scenario (attack this thing first and load up Bobo and heal) isn't really thinking that hard. I would say thinking their way out of combat scenarios would be using new techs and dual techs and seeing how they work. They make it seem like beating that dude underground is all about brute force when really they're just using techs that are outdated at this point. In other words, they spend time after losses trying to figure out why they lost, but they don't really sit and think outside of the box at all. They just look for new ways to employ brute force. Just my opinion.

Very true. They've got a number of attacks on the only 3 characters they've used that they've never even touched. Of those they have, 70% of those moves were used once in the wrong context and did little to no damage, and even after being beaten over the head (with the Scouts specifically) with the fact that the game frequently mixes up resistances and all that, they completely discount most attacks and stick to Spincut and other moves to the point of ridiculousness (e.g. using AoE attacks they're comfortable with on single enemies).

They make assumptions and don't read closely either. They still think Hero Medal is something they want to use, however they still aren't aware that it only works on Brog, and only with Masamune (and ironically, completely ignored it while they were actually using Masamune). They ignore the Rage Band because (I guess?) they assume it's the same as the Berserker accessory, which ironically they initially assumed had the properties the Rage Band actually has (counterattacks).

With this last boss, they didn't try a single magic attack, or dual attack, even though they spent 5 minutes debating who to bring and ultimately left Bagus because he seemed incapable of learning Dual and Triple attacks. They're ignoring Cure Wave, they're ignoring barrier, they insist on keeping Speed Belt on Brono for some reason even though he always starts first anyway and it's not like he ever gets an extra turn in, so from what I can tell it's making no difference at all. When fighting that dude who took off around 300 from each of them on each turn, more than they could heal on one Bobo Cure Beam turn, the switching up of strategy went from hitting his top half with weak physical attacks and alternating with Water 2, and then hitting his bottom, then reapplying water each time to try again. I kept waiting for Patrick to say "Man, if only there were some way to just hit him REALLY hard while his Defense is down," instead settling for the same attacks that can't even kill regular enemies in a single hit. They also didn't try Brono's "ULTIMATE ATTACK" at all, which was really surprising.

Disclaimer: When I played this myself years ago I got up the the Fair at the very beginning of the game and got bored. I know nothing of this game except for what I've seen during this Endurance Run. Even so, a successful strategy against this guy from what I've seen of the game might be to swap in Bagus for Brono, have him cast Water2 instead of Brog, and let those two concentrate on alternating between Cure Wave and offensive Dual Techs. Or Leave Brono in and try to work in a triple tech, then cure beam + water2 + whatever rotation.

Curious to see if they puzzle it out or give up and go try something else.

@hakunin said:

@CaptainSandwich said:

*long, spergy rant*

Seriously, dude?

Effortpost != sperging, you mong.

He is 100% right. Ryan and Patrick just don't care, and are Bad At Video Games. They act pants-on-head retarded and forget shit they literally were just talking about(oh wow we learned Luminaire, the ULTIMATE DESTRUCTION SPELL, let's forget it exists immediately), they don't read, well, basically everything(item/skill descriptions, most conversations, directions where to go), and Ryan very obviously does not care about playing this game. You might be fooled by the "YEAH!"s and what-have-you because he is a good presenter, but he just gives not a single fuck, and it's really become apparent within the last few episodes. It's unfortunate, it is.

@Soulblitz said:

I've never played Chrono Trigger, so experiencing this game with the GB crew at the same time is awesome, and I've loved it all so far. That said, man, Cure Wave is right there. It would have saved you from death in both of those boss attempts, and with careful timing, there's no reason you couldn't beat this boss just using that one heal. It's doing the work of three of Bobo's Heal Beams in one turn, and the MP cost is nothing for what you get.

Can't speak to any other dual techs or advanced tactics because I've never played it, but tactical use of Cure Wave seems like it will be important through to the end of the game.

If you've never played it, why are you giving advice? For all you know Cure Wave restores 20 hit points to one person.

lol, Cure Wave anyone?

@CaptainSandwich said:

*long, spergy rant*

Well said.

Yo video games...Serious Business.

Holy fuck, just enjoy the fucking series you cocks. :/

@gladspooky said:

@Soulblitz said:

I've never played Chrono Trigger, so experiencing this game with the GB crew at the same time is awesome, and I've loved it all so far. That said, man, Cure Wave is right there. It would have saved you from death in both of those boss attempts, and with careful timing, there's no reason you couldn't beat this boss just using that one heal. It's doing the work of three of Bobo's Heal Beams in one turn, and the MP cost is nothing for what you get.

Can't speak to any other dual techs or advanced tactics because I've never played it, but tactical use of Cure Wave seems like it will be important through to the end of the game.

If you've never played it, why are you giving advice? For all you know Cure Wave restores 20 hit points to one person.

Because he watched the videos and they knew what it did and used it frequently until they gave up on/ forgot it immediately after.

To all those saying "Don't take it seriously, Just enjoy the show." People aren't angry that they are messing up but that fact that they are blaming the game rather then seeing their own faults. A lot of the problems in their run are no fault but their own. Yes the game lacks some description at times but many things are painfully obvious and they ignore it or just plain forget things. I mean here they are in need of serious healing powers and ignore the fact that one of the other characters is the best healer in the game (Barle). Replace Brog with her and this area would be ALOT easier. The fact they are so fixated with this team they have going and yet blame the game is showing how much they just don't care to experiment. They are basically not going to be able to do many of the side-quests because they wont be presented to them without the proper characters in their party.

ryan is spending spending way too much time making up his mind what to do and then getting to the selection. also, the hits still do damage from brono and he recharges twice as fast as the other guys. get in there and hit the guy while waiting for brog to recharge.

lol at ryan and patrick thinkign theres some "trick" to this boss

oh man we cant just think our way out of this

clearly the only way ryan could think his way out of a paper bag would be if patrick told him how to do it step by step

i still love patrick tho , if it wasnt for him we wouldnt have a semi coherent endurance run

Start the side quests in the reverse order given by the quest giver. Seems logical to me being an oldie

btw... =game would never play again, TY

@gladspooky said:

@Soulblitz said:

I've never played Chrono Trigger, so experiencing this game with the GB crew at the same time is awesome, and I've loved it all so far. That said, man, Cure Wave is right there. It would have saved you from death in both of those boss attempts, and with careful timing, there's no reason you couldn't beat this boss just using that one heal. It's doing the work of three of Bobo's Heal Beams in one turn, and the MP cost is nothing for what you get.

Can't speak to any other dual techs or advanced tactics because I've never played it, but tactical use of Cure Wave seems like it will be important through to the end of the game.

If you've never played it, why are you giving advice? For all you know Cure Wave restores 20 hit points to one person.

I know what Cure Wave does because when they first learned it they made a big deal out of it, and have completely forgotten to use it since then. I don't have to have played a game before to know how to read some text, I mean they hover over it three or four times in this video alone, let alone several times in previous parts. Stop trying to pick apart what I'm saying because it seems like I'm taking a dig at the guys, when it's quite the opposite.

And I'm not saying this in a "Man, I've never played it before and I know what it does, they're just TOO STUPID to understand" either. I genuinely love this ER so far, but they could have won that fight by using Cure Wave. That's all I've said.

OK I can forgive the sucky playing, the bad path finding, the slow selecting and constant dying but my god I can't believe they still haven't figured out how to move the dialogue box across the screen!

I have been experiencing some serious second hand frustration from these videos at times. Its like neither of them have played any JRPG ever. And what about that Luminare attack? They got it literally MINUTES before the skeleton fight, acknowledged that it does "maximum damage", yet they didn't even bother trying it.

Also, Cure Wave, a Brog-Bobo dual tech is a heal-all-to-max-hp move. They even looked at it when they were reviewing the tech list. How the fuck did they miss it?

Cure wave. That is all.

I've been skipping through these, did they ever try Confuse or did they write it off thinking it's a useless status effect attack?

A bit surprised they had trouble with the skeleton, on the play through I've been doing alongside them I just downed him, and I'm several levels lower (with my techs more spread out). I just had Frog Heal or Cure 2 as necessary, Maou cast Ice 2 (or he'd give MP as needed) and Robo multi-punch the head. Should only take 4-5 turns from Robo to kill the head. My team wasn't too different really than what they used, so I am sure they can get it. Not focusing the core right off the bat would help a lot, as it'll occupy the body with sucking life out of it.

If all else fails with bosses, Haste (like in every game) is overpowered. Barrier (from Maou) or Protect (from Lucca) can be pretty game breaking too.

there is a trick to this fight actually

if you keep the eye alive the defense down from water never reverts, and the two dudes don't start doing their onslaught of magic attacks

but it's extremely easy to just kill the eye and brute force through anyway. that is, if you are using recent techs. like confuse, uzzi punch, maybe burst the legs down with a triple raid.

you know, actually using any number of the dozens and dozens of moves the game has in it. besides spincut. (???)

Heal beam THEN cure 2, even though there's a dual tech between than full heals the whole party...

@Pocky4Th3Win said:

To all those saying "Don't take it seriously, Just enjoy the show." People aren't angry that they are messing up but that fact that they are blaming the game rather then seeing their own faults. A lot of the problems in their run are no fault but their own. Yes the game lacks some description at times but many things are painfully obvious and they ignore it or just plain forget things. I mean here they are in need of serious healing powers and ignore the fact that one of the other characters is the best healer in the game (Barle). Replace Brog with her and this area would be ALOT easier. The fact they are so fixated with this team they have going and yet blame the game is showing how much they just don't care to experiment. They are basically not going to be able to do many of the side-quests because they wont be presented to them without the proper characters in their party.

This. It just seems kinda shitty to me that the guys would be this flippant with the 20+ hours they're going to spend with a great retro game, but shit on it like they do tons of other titles, despite its pedigree.

Patrick said: "Oh JRPGs, this is why no one likes you." Maybe I don't need to, but I'll remind you when he said this; Epoch gets wings, can fly/travel through time, and Ryan & Patrick start walking through areas with the most forced encounters to date, whining the entire time. Ryan also mistakes a portal he has walked out of not so long ago as having "disappeared," failing to notice the presence of a door to the portal room a mere 20 pixels above him, then proceeds to blame the game for making him trudge through yet more lab..

My point being, I'm not completely sure I should be trusting their reviews, especially as someone who has a pretty long attention span, and someone who can enjoy problem solving (when a necessary facet of a game). Lately, they really do seem to have an unnatural focus on the cons of a game outweighing its pros in 90% of cases, so maybe I need to reconsider how much to take with a grain of salt when I listen to Ryan or Patrick to make renting/buying choices. The negativity with which they speak about a title may just be unintentional misinformation because of some kind of ADD.

Shit. I miss 1UP Yours.

They seem to totally forgotten about healing item. 
I would have water > everyone heal/item > next time turn > TripleRaid

CURE WAVE!!!! OMG!!! im screaming here >.<

@Marconi88 said:

Cure wave. That is all.

@CaptainSandwich said:

@Pocky4Th3Win said:

To all those saying "Don't take it seriously, Just enjoy the show." People aren't angry that they are messing up but that fact that they are blaming the game rather then seeing their own faults. A lot of the problems in their run are no fault but their own. Yes the game lacks some description at times but many things are painfully obvious and they ignore it or just plain forget things. I mean here they are in need of serious healing powers and ignore the fact that one of the other characters is the best healer in the game (Barle). Replace Brog with her and this area would be ALOT easier. The fact they are so fixated with this team they have going and yet blame the game is showing how much they just don't care to experiment. They are basically not going to be able to do many of the side-quests because they wont be presented to them without the proper characters in their party.

This. It just seems kinda shitty to me that the guys would be this flippant with the 20+ hours they're going to spend with a great retro game, but shit on it like they do tons of other titles, despite its pedigree.

Patrick said: "Oh JRPGs, this is why no one likes you." Maybe I don't need to, but I'll remind you when he said this; Epoch gets wings, can fly/travel through time, and Ryan & Patrick start walking through areas with the most forced encounters to date, whining the entire time. Ryan also mistakes a portal he has walked out of not so long ago as having "disappeared," failing to notice the presence of a door to the portal room a mere 20 pixels above him, then proceeds to blame the game for making him trudge through yet more lab..

My point being, I'm not completely sure I should be trusting their reviews, especially as someone who has a pretty long attention span, and someone who can enjoy problem solving (when a necessary facet of a game). Lately, they really do seem to have an unnatural focus on the cons of a game outweighing its pros in 90% of cases, so maybe I need to reconsider how much to take with a grain of salt when I listen to Ryan or Patrick to make renting/buying choices. The negativity with which they speak about a title may just be unintentional misinformation because of some kind of ADD.

Shit. I miss 1UP Yours.

Yeah they literally said they won't take any help whatsoever and I am assuming they do not read the comments specifically for this reason which is unfortunate because maybe the above quoted post would make them realize that people ragging on them constantly is less about them being bad at the game(although this is part of it too) and more about them saying really dumb shit that reflects on them terribly as game reviewers and journalists, devaluing their word on things. Blaming the game because they're too distracted or uncaring to do their fucking job makes them look really bad

Bobo is so fucking slow. Put a speed belt on him or somethinh

@King9999 said:

I enjoy Endurance Runs as much as anyone here, but the way these guys play can be painful because they don't do logical actions. They're going to have a ton of trouble fighting Son of Sun and Mother Brain.

I cant wait for Son of Sun, boss battle!

With fire absorbant gear that battle is so much easier

Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling that if Patrick was the one playing the game, they would die a lot less.