Giant Bombcast Giant Bomb Game of the Year 2012: Day Five

@Lelcar said:

@Rewcastle said:

@Fallen189 said:

@Rewcastle: I'll assume you're upset because it got spoilt. For one, read the other comments. For another one, why would you read the comments before listening? Bizarre

Guess I just assumed despite this being the internet, the Giantbomb community had slightly more finesse. Especially on the subject of game of the year spoilers. I suppose people like you prove me wrong. Congratulations.

Literally the first comment for this podcast spoils the GOTY. That's a fucking bummer. And since the podcast was only out for a minute, the douchebag definitely just skipped to the end to make the comment. Sucks.

@golguin said:

@IntoTheN1ght said:

Really guys? Xcom? You know there were these games called Advance Wars on GBA and DS, they did turn based strategy better than Xcom both original and current. Walking Dead felt like a once in a generation experience, when this gen ends we will remember Super Mario Galaxy, Uncharted 2 and Walking Dead.

Oh well, good show and i wish Vinny would press his case more he just accepts being pushed around =P, tough it was great having Alex there, i hope you have him next year too.

How about Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, and Devil Survivor? I feel like I was lied to when people were talking about how XCOM was one the greatest strategy rpg. The game was best in the beginning and got progressively worst as the story dried up and the combat became stale. The game was essentially over for me by the time you had to build the hyperwave relay thing. The biggest enemies (etherials, sectopods, cyberdisks) went down before they had a chance to do anything and I did it using half the fire power (ending stats screen) that the majority of people had.

In the end I feel like you had to be bad, like literally bad at the game, to feel the tension or get any satisfaction from the combat, which is all the game had going for it. The game was over once I had my trio of sniper ladies with squadsight.

Yeah, and you're forgetting Valkyria Chronicles which is probably the closest thing to XCOM and that came out years ago and modernized the SRPG genre in a huge way (with a good story).

Hearing people talk about XCOM for any length of time on the various site and it becomes painfully obvious that people didn't really play any SRPGs. I am fairly certain that all the good will is coming from the fact that XCOM is a first for a bunch of people.

Open question to everyone who put XCOM high on their list because I really feel that I am right on this...

Is XCOM your first trip into the SRPG rabbit hole?

Can't say I'm disappointed with their final top two. Both great games that deserve top spots. I find it a little funny how technical issues became such a topic of discussion with these games when I experienced none on the PC in either game. I'm not sure if I just lucked out or the console versions were actually more buggy for once, but I guess I'm glad my experience wasn't tarnished by technical issues (it sounds like Brad really had some bad luck there).

I assume there's Walking Dead spoilers in here?

Does Brad ever not have technical issues with games? Sounds like he breaks whatever he plays.

I will take XCOM over Walking Dead. The Walking Dead's story is great but it's not perfect and the gameplay part of it is just not good. Also The Walking Dead's save issues are worse then any bugs I ran into in XCOM.

Wow! the GOTY debate didn't turn into a giant grueling battle of endurance this year.

It was weird hearing Brad go after Walking Dead and X Com for performance issues and bugs after how much he defended a completely broken game for GOTY last year. 

Ive never even heard of Intel Discovered :/

Zombie U to me seems like a game that only Patrick liked, out of the majority of reviewers.

I think the Walking Dead is a groundbreaking achievement for writing, story, characterization, basically a huge advancement in narrative for games as a whole, and it's easily my GOTY by a mile.

That said, XCOM's pretty goddamn great, too. I'll take it.

@NTM said:

Zombie U to me seems like a game that only Patrick liked, out of the majority of reviewers.

It was his "first Mario Kart" so ofc he's gonna like it. We are always blind to the actual quality of games when they are the first ones to introduce us to a new genre.

@BBQBram said:

@KittyVonDoom said:

Okay. Did Brad really just say that The Walking Dead and XCOM shouldn't win GOTY because they have performance issues on consoles?

Really?

Really?

Damn. Can't really argue with that.

I think during the last GOTY they said they can't rule out a game because of console specific issues. That's why Mortal Kombat was still included last year as well, allowing MK for GOTY talks opened the gate for Skyrim. But yes a game being broken on one console (or any) should be taken into consideration.

I'll just say again: I experienced no bugs playing TWD, other than about 3 minutes of framerate issues in Episode 1, due apparently to AMD drivers that have since been rectified. Just throwing that out there.

I find their top 10 list sorta sad as I disagree with well over half the games even being top 10 games, but I guess it's a perfect summary of how I feel about this site at this point. I don't come here for their views on games anymore as I rarely find myself connecting with their perspective, I only come here for the entertainment.

I didn't have that problem with Far Cry 3 at the end that Patrick was talking about, it was at least 20 something frames.

@MstrMnyBgs said:

Does Brad ever not have technical issues with games? Sounds like he breaks whatever he plays.

He apparently got along fine with Skyrim.

Which is weird.

Because within 5 minutes of starting that game I'm seeing rotating heads and, within 5 hours, the main quest has become irrevocably bugged because an NPC ran through a wall.

Great 'cast, loved listening to you guys passionately argue about games. Do they do this in podcast form every year?

Jeff's argument for Syndicate has made me really want to try it, after basically writing it off. I'm still kinda torn on farcry3, because I'd A)have to get it on a console, which appears to be teh crappier version B)the stupidity of the game's story vs. the cool game mechanics.

Heaven forbid having to get up and walk two feet to swap discs! HEAVEN FORBID!

@blueinferno said:

Heaven forbid having to get up and walk two feet to swap discs! HEAVEN FORBID!

I will say that having to do that, after being intensely focused playing the game, is extremely annoying to me. Having something interrupted to do that is like losing internet connection during a multiplayer match or other things. Say what you will about having to do that in the past, but this was something that many thought would be gone in this generation.

Brad on Persona 4: Golden

"We will revisit that one"

Endurance run hint? :O

Definitely not the fun that last year's GOTY podcast was. Just very little passion and a lot of "hey, you guys liked the game.. and I like you... so let's all compromise. Almost no bloodshed. The final three also came down to a "eh, all had bugs" discussion than again, any real passion for the choices. Oh well, bring on the next generation I suppose.

When your GOTY podcast is shorter than your regular podcasts you have a serious problem.

Can't believe there wasn't a fight at #1, weird. I wanted the walking dead to win but I can't argue with their views on xcom.

@golguin said:

Open question to everyone who put XCOM high on their list because I really feel that I am right on this...

Is XCOM your first trip into the SRPG rabbit hole?

It was for me, definitely.

Lame to see Walking Dead above Far Cry 3.

I'm conflicted about XCOM. Really positive early on, less so going forward. It got really, really buggy for me, and it kind of ruined my experience eventually. I tried to start it up again last night, after some patches, and then this happened to me, showing me that nothing has changed since all of their patching.

The docs at bioware was such a low blow, although it was expected. Thanks complaining fans of ME 3, thanks to you they quit!!!!

The point about XCOM isn't that it's THE GREATAST STRATERGY EVAR. The point is that it's really good and really accessible. Is there more tactical depth in something like Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea? Sure! But good luck getting any of these fuckers to play 'em. And that's the magic of this XCOM remake.

XCOM does something incredible by being a game that manages to please all sectors. It's a solid enough tactical game that the grognards can enjoy it, it doesn't frighten people off so newbies can jump in easily, it looks fantastic, it sounds even better, and it totally lives up to the nigh-impossible legacy set down by its predecessor.

Look, I get it. There are harder, deeper, crazier games out there. I play fucking BattleTech, so you don't have to tell me XCOM is god damn child's play compared to the other experiences that can be had on a grid. But that doesn't stop it from being an incredible game. It's not just about what the game is, but also what it does.

"Atrocious Wii fart" is my favorite phrase of 2012.

EDIT: I love The Walking Dead, but Patrick's not correct when he says there are no problems on the PS3. There are definitely frame rate issues and issues with the cutting in the cutscenes that slow the game down. I was also one of the victims of the save game bug before it was patched, and I hit another bug that necessitated me resetting the game. The PS3 version of The Walking Dead is by no means lacking in problems.

@Psychohead said:

The point about XCOM isn't that it's THE GREATAST STRATERGY EVAR. The point is that it's really good and really accessible. Is there more tactical depth in something like Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea? Sure! But good luck getting any of these fuckers to play 'em. And that's the magic of this XCOM remake.

You know how old I was when I played the original X-Com? Twelve. And I beat it. It's not some uber-complicated game only a madman could understand. All you have to do is take a glance at the manual. And how does Final Fantasy Tactics, or any of its sequels, not ease you into the gameplay? Hell, the reason I've never beaten Final Fantasy Tactics A2 is because it takes waaay too long setting all that stuff up.

That's not to say XCOM is a terrible game, but it really is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Dumbest motion controlled moment should be the Wonderbook demo at E3, hands down.

I want to throw a party. XCOM is sublime. I want to send Jake Solomon a trophy. Or just a bottle of scotch.

What I can't believe is that GB seems yo be the only big games media that gave it to XCOM? Which is completely mental. Trust in the bomb.

I don't know why but I expected this to be way longer. Mannn now I need to find some other way to get through work tomorrow.

All their talk of space team and FTL, they need to look into Artemis bridge simulator.

@Droop said:

Lame to see Walking Dead above Far Cry 3.

yep I agree. Walking Dead gets best story category but not best game, not by a long shot.

@tourgen: XCOM = best game. The Walking Dead = best story. Far Cry 3 = neither of those.

The most tame GOTY to date. Congratulations!

@Scottish_Sin said:

@golguin said:

Open question to everyone who put XCOM high on their list because I really feel that I am right on this...

Is XCOM your first trip into the SRPG rabbit hole?

It was for me, definitely.

Then I think there is hope for the genre. A good number of amazing SRPG titles have been lost to obscurity because people see the name or visual stylings of a Japanese studio and quickly dismiss it as some anime bullshit.

Walking Dead is my personal number one, but I have no problem with XCOM: Enemy Unknown winning. It truly is a great RTS game. And I'm glad Sleeping Dogs made the list. Good one Vinny.

Also, very mature of you guys to let each others personal favorites make the list, and agree about number one. Not like last year where Brad cheated Saints Row: The Third from being number one by whining. Then again, it seemed like Brad was going to do the same if more people than Alex argued for Walking Dead getting the number one spot as well.

So, on a personal performance basis (just a bit of a fun, and spoilers for game positions obviously):

Ryan: Redeemed himself from last year's debacle by actually supporting his pick for No.1 this time. Kept things moving along, let everyone have their say without letting any of the bigger personalities railroad the discussions. His role as the host actually requires him to be more careful and not throw his authority about, and he handled it just right IMO.

Brad: Was perhaps a little self conscious, due to the criticism he got last year. Seemed to go out of his way to avoid getting into arguments (although he could easily have gotten himself into trouble by arguing technical issues on the Top 3, when he supported Skyrim last year). I think ultimately though, that his game plan was pretty much solely based around getting Mass Effect 3 a Top 10 finish, and that was a respectable compromise. ME3 just isn't a Top 5 game IMO, and trying to ram it into the Top 5 would have been long and painful, and he probably would have failed anyway, given the general ill feeling most of the others had to it.

Jeff: Again, a more restrained performance than he sometimes gives, and channeled his opinions constructively, rather than lashing out as he sometimes does. Was very impressed with his eloquent and accurate argument for Syndicate, and he deserves much praise for being one of the few people in the industry to defend a game that was unfairly criticised. Also was surprisingly lenient on The Walking Dead, and didn't try to ram Far Cry 3 higher up the list, as it was fairly plain that the others considered TWD and XCOM to be the main contenders.

Vinny: Quite passive again, but no repeat of the Dark Souls surrender, so no real harm done. Like Brad, he seemed set on making sure one particular game made the Top 10 (Sleeping Dogs), and was fairly ambivalent to what else went on. His finest moment was one of the highlights of the whole cast though, with his early lunge at Dishonored. I quite liked Dishonored (not too much, but it was okay), and I thought it might be able to ride out some of the earlier cuts. But I'd banked without Ezio Caravella, who left Patrick with a Tomahawk in the back of his Corvo, before he knew what had hit him. It was a bold move, and took out a dark horse quickly (because you never know - Syndicate at No. 7 being a prime example). And hey, he managed to keep Sleeping Dogs when it could quite easily have been cut.

Patrick: The early cull of Dishonored aside, he put up a decent defence of Zombiiu, but really didn't seem to have to work too hard to get things going his way. Most of the games he felt strongly enough about, that he felt had any realistic chance, made it through fairly easily. Basically, he didn't have too many out there picks, so most of it went through on the nod. The only real issue is whether he could have fought harder for Dishonored, and whether he could have made a case for Walking Dead over XCOM. It was clear that Alex would have supported him, and it wasn't beyond the realm of the possibility that Vinny would too. I think the fact that Brad, Ryan and Jeff all seemed united in not supporting TWD for No.1 dissuaded him, but I feel the argument should at least have been attempted, and he didn't give Alex much backup on that IMO.

Alex: Got a pretty raw deal throughout really, although not being in the room wouldn't have helped. Did well to keep Hotline Miami in for as long as he did, and managed to get rid of Asura's Wrath by pointing out the elephant in the room (i.e its fun, but its not that good), quickly pointed out that Papa + Nee Yo is also an awful game clothed up in impressive finery (i.e the story and concept), plus had the good sense to pull RE6 from worst game (because again, its not that bad when you're comparing it to games like Family Guy). Generally made sense, didn't try for anything too unlikely, stuck up for his picks, but knew when to draw a line under and move on. Really felt like he was left hanging at the end by Patrick on Walking Dead (and I say this with no malice towards Patrick, and as someone who wanted XCOM to be named 'No.1). Should be in the room next year.

@Fistfulofmetal said:

Brad on Persona 4: Golden

"We will revisit that one"

Endurance run hint? :O

Pretty sure he was referring to the 2013's 2012 game of the year, though you were probably joking. I'm almost certain that's gonna win next year if at least 2 of them play it. Still a bit disappointed that Vinny didn't get around to playing Arena before the end of the year.

@NTM said:

Whoa... They have far too many nominations for game of the year. I'm surprised Asura's Wrath kept along that long.

I believe the way it works is every game that was included in one of their top ten lists is automatically a nominee.

I think there may be something wrong with me. I just can't get into the walking dead game.

@Stradimus: It took my awhile to get into. I found taking frequent breaks helpful in the very beginning.

@Stradimus: There's nothing wrong with you. A friend who's really into comics loaned me the first one & I loved it enough to watch the TV series, which I also love (so far). I watched just enough Let's Plays of the first chapter of Episode One of the game to see how the adventure game mechanics work in it, since I stopped enjoying point-and-clicks about 25 years ago & I wanted to be sure this wasn't just another pixel-hunt.

I got the game as soon as Steam had the whole thing, because I figured the bugs would be patched by then. Thing is, every time I try to play the game, the bugs + the obvious false choices have made me quit before getting to the end of Episode One. I believe the folks who say that the story gets more engaging in the next chapters, but I'm so annoyed at how the first one is playing out that I'm not sure I'm willing to invest the time to get there.

The low frame rate and odd pauses during cut scenes are just this side of a slideshow - despite my having a pretty good gaming machine - & so far the game is mostly cut scenes punctuated by the occasional button-mashing. If I wanted to watch a series of still frames of shambling zombies, I could just read the rest of the comic series. I can certainly read a lot faster than the game seems able to chug through a transition. The "choices" I've made so far seem obviously false to me - so much so, that I can't begin to feel invested in them & I'm left wondering how so many pro gamers could get fooled into thinking that they're actually influencing events. The dialogue trees demand a quick response but without any real indication as to how dialogue is going to be delivered, so I've found myself choosing to say things that end up being entirely contrary to what I intended. Even "Dear Esther" gave me a greater sense of player agency & that's pretty much just a slow-walk through a staged poetry-based theme park.

I want to love the game & I'll probably slog through it in hopes of having my mind changed, but I can't help feeling that it's benefiting mightily by being compared to the crap-ton of shallow, cliched & juvenile writing in so many plot-centric games.

Man, I can't believe they cut Dishonored :O

I cared more about the XCOM randomly generated characters than I cared about any of the Walking Dead's characters.

The Walking Dead will remain my GOTY. I'm glad at least Alex put up a spirited fight for it. Kind of disappointed in Patrick saying next to nothing in it's defense seeing as how he had it in his number one spot.

Glad Vinny fought for Sleepy Dogs.

I was quite disappointed in this years GOTY podcasts. No one really fought it out, everyone was so passive and agreeable with each other.

@sawtooth said:

I cared more about the XCOM randomly generated characters than I cared about any of the Walking Dead's characters.

Yes.

@goreyfantod: Holy crap! That's it! I think you just put my exact plight into words. Thanks! ^.^