I really enjoy the Bioware style of RPG, and I'm also a big fan of Star Wars, which is why I got such a kick out of the KOTOR games. But I have no interest in playing an MMO, really of any kind. I've never wanted to pay a monthly fee, or have to rely so heavily on interacting with other people to play a game. Now I don't resent Bioware for making an MMO. They're entitled to make whatever game that they want. But I am disappointed that there won't be a proper, single-player KOTOR 3 in the foreseeable future. With the current platforms and all of the lessons they'd have learned from making Mass Effect and other games, KOTOR 3 could have really been something.

@President_Barackbar said:

@project343: Then I am truly surprised noone is talking about it if it really is as great as you make it out to be.

It's not.

They pack that stuff into the early worlds. And it is fun. past the beginning, it starts evaporating.

Like I said, the first flashpoint, both Empire and Republic side, are the only ones with a "Gripping narrative" The next three have been "Kill everything in here, just like it was a WoW dungeon from 2007." There's one moral choice each, which you select from a terminal with no VA attached (For example, in one you could choose to save some crazy people, or leave them to die. Again, no VA, no nothing but a few light side or dark side points, and maybe one or two more pulls.)

I can't speak for further flashpoints. If you tell me the ones later on becoming gripping again, great. But if that's the case, I wish they had extended it to the mid level ones as well.

No, because Obsidian should make KOTOR 3. Or at least they should do the writing.

@SamDrugbringer said:

@President_Barackbar said:

@project343: Then I am truly surprised noone is talking about it if it really is as great as you make it out to be.

It's not.

They pack that stuff into the early worlds. And it is fun. past the beginning, it starts evaporating.

Like I said, the first flashpoint, both Empire and Republic side, are the only ones with a "Gripping narrative" The next three have been "Kill everything in here, just like it was a WoW dungeon from 2007." There's one moral choice each, which you select from a terminal with no VA attached (For example, in one you could choose to save some crazy people, or leave them to die. Again, no VA, no nothing but a few light side or dark side points, and maybe one or two more pulls.)

I can't speak for further flashpoints. If you tell me the ones later on becoming gripping again, great. But if that's the case, I wish they had extended it to the mid level ones as well.

I'm sort of left in the same position; that is, only being able to argue for some of the flashpoints. I've played the first one, then skipped many. But I've seen several of the 40+ instances online, and they continued to follow the same format as the first two--with compelling characters and decisions made throughout.

That said, my main argument is for the Heroic Quests and Heroic Areas. I think it's fucking fantastic. Regardless of all this shitting on SWTOR, it arguably exists as the best produced, best designed traditional MMORPG to date--with arguably only Cataclysm and Rift giving it a run for it's money, which ultimately fail to deliver the same production value. If you disagree, I'd like to hear that argument. And in either case, I don't think a KOTOR3 would have existed in any other form. So we should be pretty happy with what we've got.

What we're left with is arguably Bioware's most technically sound, most polished, and most abundantly-full RPG experience to date. And you can enjoy it with a permanent avatar that exists in a virtual world with other players--be it your friends or enemies. That's my take-away. We can argue all the finer points 'till death, but I think adding online to the formula only forces the experience to balanced, and permanent: the two things that unfortunately don't fit in with Bioware's formula.

@President_Barackbar said:

@project343: Then I am truly surprised noone is talking about it if it really is as great as you make it out to be.

It's not.

They pack that stuff into the early worlds. And it is fun. past the beginning, it starts evaporating.

Like I said, the first flashpoint, both Empire and Republic side, are the only ones with a "Gripping narrative" The next three have been "Kill everything in here, just like it was a WoW dungeon from 2007." There's one moral choice each, which you select from a terminal with no VA attached (For example, in one you could choose to save some crazy people, or leave them to die. Again, no VA, no nothing but a few light side or dark side points, and maybe one or two more pulls.)

I can't speak for further flashpoints. If you tell me the ones later on becoming gripping again, great. But if that's the case, I wish they had extended it to the mid level ones as well.

@Brodehouse said:

@SamDrugbringer said:

@President_Barackbar said:

@project343: Then I am truly surprised noone is talking about it if it really is as great as you make it out to be.

It's not.

They pack that stuff into the early worlds. And it is fun. past the beginning, it starts evaporating.

Like I said, the first flashpoint, both Empire and Republic side, are the only ones with a "Gripping narrative" The next three have been "Kill everything in here, just like it was a WoW dungeon from 2007." There's one moral choice each, which you select from a terminal with no VA attached (For example, in one you could choose to save some crazy people, or leave them to die. Again, no VA, no nothing but a few light side or dark side points, and maybe one or two more pulls.)

I can't speak for further flashpoints. If you tell me the ones later on becoming gripping again, great. But if that's the case, I wish they had extended it to the mid level ones as well.

They intended for all the flashpoints to function like Esseles, but then they realized that they had no flashpoints between 10 and 33. So they added four relatively standard dungeon runs to get people to Taral V.

I just did Maelstrom Prison, the level 37 flashpoint. This game is KOTOR3. Make no mistake. This game is everything that KOTOR3 ever could have been and more. The fact that I met and, let's say, dealt with characters who I expected to be out of reach until months into the end game... absolutely crazy. What a great time I just had.

That is very reassuring. I saw... *checks internet* Directive 7 played through from start to finish with minor gameplay skipping forwards. It was honestly about three times more interesting than both the Esseles and Black Talon. That said, I also don't blame Bioware for inserting fairly traditional instances into the mix. Giving players tonal variety for hard mode flashpoint runs at 50 seems rather ideal, especially if said tonal variety includes less narration (which only, naturally, loses umph with repeated playthroughs).

And yes, I hear the Revan storyline that was put on hold after the book ("Revan") is very much addressed in one of the flashpoints. This is really great to hear. I just hope HK-47 gets some loving. Obviously I'm a bit of a fan. I should really jump on the flashpoint bandwagon though. I'm in my early 40s now, and I've yet to do a flashpoint on any of my characters (I managed to play Black Talon and Esseles during my beta weekends).

Alright, well, I think I'll probably reach that before I stop playing (I've been leveling up slow due to a friend rerolling a lot, and wanting to keep pace because playing with him has been fun.) If they can make other flashpoints as good as BT, then I'd say you might have a point, because with friends that one was a blast.