Should the Reaper be taken out of the game?

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#1 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
#2 Posted by Fenrisulfr (141 posts) -

Why would you want it to disappear?

#3 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

Yes because those reapers should be only part of mass effect.

#4 Edited by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken. 
 
Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran.

#5 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2906 posts) -

Idra is stupid. I don't care how fucking good at Starcraft he is, he has no excuse for being such a whiny bitch. If Terran is so overpowered, why doesn't he play as them?

#6 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@SuperfluousMoniker said:
" Idra is stupid. I don't care how fucking good at Starcraft he is, he has no excuse for being such a whiny bitch. If Terran is so overpowered, why doesn't he play as them? "
He did in fact play as Terran. Apparently Artosis claims he started playing Terran and in 2 days he was beating 2000 level Zergs which is pretty fucking ridiculous. You have to take what those two say with a grain of salt, but even so, why is the Reaper in the game except to crush the shit out of Zerg. There is no other viable strategy to when using Reapers except early game harass against a Zerg. They arent effective against Protoss or Terran, and Zerg has to account for them because if they dont, they are fucked if their opponent goes with a Reaper opening. It just doesnt really make sense to have them in the game in my opinion.
#7 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
That don't mean reapers should go away, it just means the zerg should get a new unit that can deal with reapers. 
#8 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@StaticFalconar: Sure lol, thats another solution, maybe actually a better one. Even so, the Reaper is still completely retarded.
#9 Edited by audiosnag (1604 posts) -

I don't have any problems with Reapers as a Zerg.
Granted, I'm a 2 ranked Silver player right now so maybe they aren't used as much where i am now so that may change later.
They do seem pretty useless though once you reach mid game. Hellions are good with harassment but can still be used later on but Reapers just go splat.
I dunno, I'm up in the air about it. For now I'll just throw down a spine crawler, problem solved.

#10 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@audiosnag said:
" I don't have any problems with Reapers as a Zerg. Granted, I'm a 2 ranked Silver player right now so maybe they aren't used as much where i am now so that may change later. They do seem pretty useless though once you reach mid game. Hellions are good with harassment but can still be used later on but Reapers just go splat. I dunno, I'm up in the air about it. For now I'll just throw down a spine crawler, problem solved. "
I agree with most of what you said except for the spine crawler part. Zerg almost always needs a second bass withing the first 20 food if they want to win at high levels, straight up, end of story. So if you get a hatch at your natural and put your spine crawler there, they hop up into your main, and if you put it in your main, you cant mine your natural. I agree that it seems like not as many people use it as they used to, but then what is the point of having it in the game. If no one uses it but Zerg still has to account for it because if they did use it Zerg would be dead, it makes no sense to have it in the game.
#11 Posted by Fenrisulfr (141 posts) -

Did it ever cross your mind to only make MAYBE two larvae worth of Zerglings, forget a Queen, and simply make a couple of roaches and a Spine Crawler? 
 
Getting rid of Reapers won't improve the game.  Players adapting to the challenge and changing up their strategies to fight back those harassment units will.

#12 Posted by Gamer_152 (14051 posts) -
@StaticFalconar said:
" @DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
That don't mean reapers should go away, it just means the zerg should get a new unit that can deal with reapers.  "
Forgive me as I'm pretty much a Starcraft newbie but if they did add an extra unit for the Zerg specifically to take out Reapers, wouldn't that mean that Zerg would still be forced to shell out resources for early-game protection that a Protoss or Terran player wouldn't?
Moderator
#13 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:
" @StaticFalconar said:
" @DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
That don't mean reapers should go away, it just means the zerg should get a new unit that can deal with reapers.  "
Forgive me as I'm pretty much a Starcraft newbie but if they did add an extra unit for the Zerg specifically to take out Reapers, wouldn't that mean that Zerg would still be forced to shell out resources for early-game protection that a Protoss or Terran player wouldn't? "
Yeah, you're actually right. I am more thinking that they add a unit that is effective all game long so its not just a Reaper counter but can be easy to get to stop them. The biggest problem is it would be soooooooo much harder to add a Zerg unit when all you really have to do is take away the Reaper. Every time I think about it I just come back to how stupid the purpose of Reapers are.
#14 Posted by ShockD (2393 posts) -

I like them reapers. They remind me of Red Alert 2's rocketeers.

#15 Posted by Turambar (6673 posts) -

Just because that's all the unit is currently being used for does not mean it is the only thing the unit is good for.  Idra and Artosis, as good as they are, are not the final word on how the metagame of SC2 will go.  It's up to the player to figure out how to use the units properly, and as more and more zergs become very adept at dealing with the early reaper, the role of that unit will change.
 
Also, what do you mean the zerg player will need to shell out extra resources compared to terran and protoss?  Speedlings on creep are fast enough to respond to the reapers, and speedlings are good in all stages of the game.  There is no "extra resources" being taken up.

#16 Posted by Jeffsekai (7026 posts) -

Just remove marauders instead

#17 Posted by Spooty (86 posts) -

From Developer Blog: 
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

  • The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.
  • We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids.  We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.
  
Bye bye reapers. I hope you like staring at that Xel'naga tower all day.
#18 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:
" @StaticFalconar said:
" @DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
That don't mean reapers should go away, it just means the zerg should get a new unit that can deal with reapers.  "
Forgive me as I'm pretty much a Starcraft newbie but if they did add an extra unit for the Zerg specifically to take out Reapers, wouldn't that mean that Zerg would still be forced to shell out resources for early-game protection that a Protoss or Terran player wouldn't? "
The Zerg player is no more forced to build that unit in the same sense that the Terran player is forced to build the reaper in the first place. This is why there's scouting and stuff so you ain't building counters to stuff that the other player isn't even making. 
#19 Posted by Fenrisulfr (141 posts) -
@Turambar:  
 
Correct!  It costs 150 ore to build a Queen.  It costs 150 ore to throw down a Roach Warren.  You don't NEED a Queen right as soon as you can get it.  Soon enough, you'll get 300 ore, throw down an expansion, then go for a queen.  And instead of speedlings (which are also just good to have), make a few roaches.  It's not spending more ore, it's just spending that ore at a different time and investing in another unit. 
 
It's a strategy game, not rock, paper, scissors.
#20 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Hell no, Reaper Rushing is my favorite thing to do. 
 
RR them quick, build a second CC in their base.  
 
I love griefing out matches.

#21 Edited by raiz265 (2233 posts) -

they practically take them out by increasing roach range, forcing depot before barracks and moving the speed upgrade to factory tier 
 
good timing on the thread.
 
 
 
sad thing is, while looking at the units pre-beta i actually decided on playing terran because of the reaper :( 
now all hope is lost! 
 
 
they should change them somehow to make them usable the whole game (and i dont mean parking them at some tower on a cliff) instead of nerfing them into uselessness because they are OP in the earlygame

#22 Posted by Fenrisulfr (141 posts) -

Reaper's aren't over powered.  People just aren't mentally competent to deal with them.  I've only ever had a problem with Reapers in ONE game and that was when I made an early mistake by not getting a stalker out soon enough.  Know who's fault that was?  Mine.

#23 Posted by tankintheair315 (347 posts) -

After the next patch reapers are just about as useless as a magikarp. Like embarrassingly so.

#24 Posted by Tennmuerti (7994 posts) -

Reapers should stay but they really need help in mid/late game.
Imho they should give them late game upgrades like they give zerglings for example.

#25 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -
@Jeffsekai said:
" Just remove marauders instead "
Protoss can't handle the marauder :(?
#26 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

Personally, it seems like many of the balance changes that have been happening are directly related to Reapers.  In turn, it would seem that is quite telling of just how much the Reaper breaks things in terms of balance. 
 
So yeah...I think taking the Reaper unit out of the game altogether could be a solution to all of these crazy changes.

#27 Posted by Bloodgraiv3 (2712 posts) -

No it should stay how it is. 
#28 Posted by Jeffsekai (7026 posts) -
@haffy said:
" @Jeffsekai said:
" Just remove marauders instead "
Protoss can't handle the marauder :(? "
Im not protoss and as zerg I can deal with them fine. They are a dumb unit.
#29 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

What's wrong with them then? They're a bit annoying to early pushes when I'm Protoss but that's it. Only use they really have against Zerg is roaches which arn't noramly out, ultras and banelings. The concusive shell should probaly be a bit of a later upgrade but apart from that they arn't amazing.

#30 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "

Yeah because zerglings don't do the same thing. /sarcasm
#31 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@RsistncE said:
" @DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
Yeah because zerglings don't do the same thing. /sarcasm "
Saying something like that reveals your ignorance of the game. If you're trying to say zerglings are only for harass or are useless after the first few minutes you obviously dont know what you're talking about. Also, can zerglings jump up cliffs...???...end of conversation.
#32 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

No, but getting rid of medics would probably balance the Terrans out. Keep the medivac, take out medics.

#33 Posted by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -
@RsistncE said:
" @DoctorWelch said:
" This comes from something Idra said two podcasts ago on the State of the Game. Although Idra is known to overreact, I have thought of this before as well. The only reason for Reapers is simple to annoy the shit out of people in the early game, and it makes life for the Zerg player unnecessarily hard especially if they want to go hatch first. I wouldnt mind Reapers if there sole purpose wasnt simply to harass in the beginning of the game. After the first few minutes, Reapers are a completely pointless unit. Keep in mind that Terran would still have Hellions which make for a great harassing unit, but they dont seem nearly as cheap and basically broken.  Also note, this is coming from someone who personally plays Terran. "
Yeah because zerglings don't do the same thing. /sarcasm "
they... don't. 
 
??
#34 Posted by MikkaQ (10268 posts) -

It's a good counter to Zerg, why the hell get rid of it?

#35 Posted by Turambar (6673 posts) -
@XII_Sniper:  What?  How?  Reapers are meant to be early pressure, not as a response or counter to anything.  
 
@ryanwho said: Umm, I don't think medics are in multiplayer.
#36 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch: I'm not saying they only harass, I'm saying that they're pretty annoying early in the game and unfortunately now with the requirement that a supply depot HAS to be built before a barracks they're going to be even more annoying. The fact that you're bitching about reapers like Idra (who apparently bitches 24/7) just means that you can't deal with a unit but refuse to acknowledge anyone elses complaints either.
#37 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@RsistncE said:
" @DoctorWelch: I'm not saying they only harass, I'm saying that they're pretty annoying early in the game and unfortunately now with the requirement that a supply depot HAS to be built before a barracks they're going to be even more annoying. The fact that you're bitching about reapers like Idra (who apparently bitches 24/7) just means that you can't deal with a unit but refuse to acknowledge anyone elses complaints either. "
Again, you obviously dont know what you're talking about. First of all, I have already stated that I play Terran, therefore I am not bitching about them because they are a unit in my arsenal that would be taken away. Second of all, the supply depot thing means nothing, if you go depot, barracks, depot at your ramp against 6 pool, you can use your SCVs to repair while you get 2 or 3 marines to kill the lings and then you basically win the game because you are so far ahead. The depot thing is simply there because it prevents a "6 pool LIKE" Reaper all-in that can crush Zerg basically every time and basically makes the game broken. Also, the only thing lings do early game that is annoying is prevent the other race from being too aggressive because they can counter attack really effectively, but they are in no way close to that of a Reaper, Banshee, or even Hellion harass. 
 
Also, lets just state this for the record, Idra knows about 1004895093694889645745345 times more than any of us about Starcraft and Starcraft II. Yeah, he complains a lot, but thats just his personality. He doesnt just say stupid shit left and right like people seem to think he does, every time he says something he supports it with actual logic that makes sense. Although he occasionally overreacts, I would rather listen to what he says when it comes to Starcraft II than a majority of other people.
#38 Posted by Shirogane (3563 posts) -
@DoctorWelch:
Reapers aren't totally useless in lategame. Though i'm not really sure how well it actually works, since i only used it once. But with their insane amount of damage against buildings, attacking their base from behind while also attacking with another force works decently.
#39 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch: All I'm hearing is whine, whine, whine. Notice how even though I don't like several units in the game, I don't demand they be buffed or nerfed? Or even outright removed? Instead of learning how to beat a certain strategy people like you and Idra whine endlessly. It's a game, and unfortunately if you're taking it seriously enough that you need to whine about balancing, then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life. It doesn't really matter to me that Idra knows a lot about something as useless as Starcraft, what matters is that he's a bitch and instead of treating it like a game and just getting better at it if he so wishes, he bitches, and bitches, and bitches. That's just poor sportsmanship...well at least in sports, so poor videogameship? I don't know, point you guys are whiners and that's about it.
#40 Edited by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@RsistncE said:

" @DoctorWelch: All I'm hearing is whine, whine, whine. Notice how even though I don't like several units in the game, I don't demand they be buffed or nerfed? Or even outright removed? Instead of learning how to beat a certain strategy people like you and Idra whine endlessly. It's a game, and unfortunately if you're taking it seriously enough that you need to whine about balancing, then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life. It doesn't really matter to me that Idra knows a lot about something as useless as Starcraft, what matters is that he's a bitch and instead of treating it like a game and just getting better at it if he so wishes, he bitches, and bitches, and bitches. That's just poor sportsmanship...well at least in sports, so poor videogameship? I don't know, point you guys are whiners and that's about it. "

Hahaha, wow that's hilarious. At first I thought you were someone who just played Starcraft but didnt really know that much about it at higher levels, but now I realize you literally have absolutely no idea what your talking about and no concept of why these things are important in the game. Plus, Starcraft II isnt just "some game" like most others, it's a game with hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake. So to say something as idiotic as "if you're taking it seriously enough that you need to whine about balancing, then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life" is ignorant and fairly childish. I could just sit here and say everything you have ever done in your life and ever will do in your life is a waste, and how are you going to argue with that? You cant because ignorance always wins an argument, and you "sir" (I put sir in quotes because you are obviously a kid) are extremely ignorant. 
 
Next, who is whining? Since when was I whining? I guess you didnt really understand me when I said I PLAY TERRAN!!! Do you understand that now? Hopefully you do (even though I highly doubt you will). I actually understand that Idra knows more than you and I, and anything he says when he is whining is more useful than anything you or I say at all. If you still dont understand that concept, than I really cant help you there.
 
Now, if you actually knew anything about Starcraft you would understand why saying "just get better" is fairly stupid. Yes, there is a lot of room for improvement for even the top top players, but thats not the whole point. The point is that it is extremely hard to win with Zerg, yes it can be done, but it is too hard to win with Zerg, therefore discouraging players from playing the race. How is it fair that a Terran or Protoss player can get better at the race 100000000 times faster than Zerg because Terran and Protoss are so easy. The level of skill required to be a Diamond Zerg player is about 100 times more than that of a Diamond level Terran or Protoss, and that is the problem. 
 
So basically, why dont you just stop responding by saying useless garbage that doesnt make any sense. If you actually have something logical to say, I will listen, but you probably wont.
#41 Edited by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch said:

" @RsistncE said:

" @DoctorWelch: All I'm hearing is whine, whine, whine. Notice how even though I don't like several units in the game, I don't demand they be buffed or nerfed? Or even outright removed? Instead of learning how to beat a certain strategy people like you and Idra whine endlessly. It's a game, and unfortunately if you're taking it seriously enough that you need to whine about balancing, then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life. It doesn't really matter to me that Idra knows a lot about something as useless as Starcraft, what matters is that he's a bitch and instead of treating it like a game and just getting better at it if he so wishes, he bitches, and bitches, and bitches. That's just poor sportsmanship...well at least in sports, so poor videogameship? I don't know, point you guys are whiners and that's about it. "

Hahaha, wow that's hilarious. At first I thought you were someone who just played Starcraft but didnt really know that much about it at higher levels, but now I realize you literally have absolutely no idea what your talking about and no concept of why these things are important in the game. Plus, Starcraft II isnt just "some game" like most others, it's a game with hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake. So to say something as idiotic as "if you're taking it seriously enough that you need to whine about balancing, then you need to reevaluate your priorities in life" is ignorant and fairly childish. I could just sit here and say everything you have ever done in your life and ever will do in your life is a waste, and how are you going to argue with that? You cant because ignorance always wins an argument, and you "sir" (I put sir in quotes because you are obviously a kid) are extremely ignorant.  Next, who is whining? Since when was I whining? I guess you didnt really understand me when I said I PLAY TERRAN!!! Do you understand that now? Hopefully you do (even though I highly doubt you will). I actually understand that Idra knows more than you and I, and anything he says when he is whining is more useful than anything you or I say at all. If you still dont understand that concept, than I really cant help you there. Now, if you actually knew anything about Starcraft you would understand why saying "just get better" is fairly stupid. Yes, there is a lot of room for improvement for even the top top players, but thats not the whole point. The point is that it is extremely hard to win with Zerg, yes it can be done, but it is too hard to win with Zerg, therefore discouraging players from playing the race. How is it fair that a Terran or Protoss player can get better at the race 100000000 times faster than Zerg because Terran and Protoss are so easy. The level of skill required to be a Diamond Zerg player is about 100 times more than that of a Diamond level Terran or Protoss, and that is the problem.  So basically, why dont you just stop responding by saying useless garbage that doesnt make any sense. If you actually have something logical to say, I will listen, but you probably wont. "
"Starcraft 2 isn't just some game" 
 
That is fucking rich. It's a fucking video game buddy. Just like everything else on this site. Everyone one of here plays video games because they're FUN. The ONLY reason that competitive gaming exists is because of advertisers and some mental viewers in Asian countries. The fact of the matter is that Starcraft players aren't being paid to play, they're being paid to have "Intel Extreme" plastered on their fucking shirt. "Competitive gamers" are just another tool that can be tossed away once tech companies have no more use for them. They're disposable. 
 
And don't pull that philosophical bullshit on me; no one in their right mind would say that a doctor, lawyer, police officer etc. is on the same level of utility to society as a kid who plays video games. Video games! Just saying that makes my head spin. All that Starcraft is making you delusional buddy, I suggest you get out once in a while and get some fresh air.
#42 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@RsistncE said: 
"Starcraft 2 isn't just some game"  That is fucking rich. It's a fucking video game buddy. Just like everything else on this site. Everyone one of here plays video games because they're FUN. The ONLY reason that competitive gaming exists is because of advertisers and some mental viewers in Asian countries. The fact of the matter is that Starcraft players aren't being paid to play, they're being paid to have "Intel Extreme" plastered on their fucking shirt. "Competitive gamers" are just another tool that can be tossed away once tech companies have no more use for them. They're disposable.  And don't pull that philosophical bullshit on me; no one in their right mind would say that a doctor, lawyer, police officer etc. is on the same level of utility to society as a kid who plays video games. Video games! Just saying that makes my head spin. All that Starcraft is making you delusional buddy, I suggest you get out once in a while and get some fresh air. "
Yup exactly like I was saying, your are a simple minded ignorant child. So you're basically telling me that sports are just sports, they mean nothing, and anyone who plays them is wasting their lives away, great argument moron. Your also basically saying that anyone whose life and career is involved in entertainment is wasting their life away. So essentially your saying that anyone who is an actor, musician, singer, athlete, writer, ect, are all wasting their lives away....wow...there are few as simple minded as you. Entertainment is one of the most important aspects of human life and culture, but I can see you dont really understand that. Also, dont sit there and think that sports arent all about raking in the money, because they are. Why the hell do you think the NFL is trying to make an eighteen game season. Yeah, Esports arent at the mass entertainment level yet, but with things like the GSL they will eventually get there. Your logic is so insane its not even funny. I also love how you try to completely change the subject by spewing out insanity whenever you know your obviously wrong.
 
Finally, it's hilarious to see you harping on the same points even after I give the obvious reasons why you are wrong. It's like I said though, ignorance and stupidity will always win an argument. Have fun thinking they way you do and then eventually finding out you're as worthless as anyone else in your flawed childish view of things.
#43 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@Turambar said:
" Just because that's all the unit is currently being used for does not mean it is the only thing the unit is good for.  Idra and Artosis, as good as they are, are not the final word on how the metagame of SC2 will go.  It's up to the player to figure out how to use the units properly, and as more and more zergs become very adept at dealing with the early reaper, the role of that unit will change.  Also, what do you mean the zerg player will need to shell out extra resources compared to terran and protoss?  Speedlings on creep are fast enough to respond to the reapers, and speedlings are good in all stages of the game.  There is no "extra resources" being taken up. "
Im honestly not trying to be a dick, but your wrong. The Reaper will never be used for anything else because it isnt worth anything except in the early game, end of story. Especially with the nerfs to Reapers that keep happening, eventually there really isnt going to be a point to having them in the game. Also, you have to remember that Zerg has three resources, ass, minerals, and larva. If a Zerg player is making too many units early on instead of spending that larva on drones, they will be too far behind to stand a chance against a good macroing Terran. 
 
@pause422 said:
" The thing is that every player who tries to act like they know what they're talking about sums stuff like this to just be the other races crying instead of actually listening. its plenty of people that play Random and Terran as well that find them to be an overall stupid unit.    So yes, take them out of the game, and separate the terran players who actually know what they're doing, from the ones who climbed ladder just by reapers. "
This is basically 100% true. 
 
@Spooty said:
" From Developer Blog: 
The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.
  • The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.
  • We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids.  We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.
  Bye bye reapers. I hope you like staring at that Xel'naga tower all day. "
This is what I am saying though, if they are just going to keep making them shittier, why not just take them out completely.
#44 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch said:
" @RsistncE said: 
"Starcraft 2 isn't just some game"  That is fucking rich. It's a fucking video game buddy. Just like everything else on this site. Everyone one of here plays video games because they're FUN. The ONLY reason that competitive gaming exists is because of advertisers and some mental viewers in Asian countries. The fact of the matter is that Starcraft players aren't being paid to play, they're being paid to have "Intel Extreme" plastered on their fucking shirt. "Competitive gamers" are just another tool that can be tossed away once tech companies have no more use for them. They're disposable.  And don't pull that philosophical bullshit on me; no one in their right mind would say that a doctor, lawyer, police officer etc. is on the same level of utility to society as a kid who plays video games. Video games! Just saying that makes my head spin. All that Starcraft is making you delusional buddy, I suggest you get out once in a while and get some fresh air. "
Yup exactly like I was saying, your are a simple minded ignorant child. So you're basically telling me that sports are just sports, they mean nothing, and anyone who plays them is wasting their lives away, great argument moron. Your also basically saying that anyone whose life and career is involved in entertainment is wasting their life away. So essentially your saying that anyone who is an actor, musician, singer, athlete, writer, ect, are all wasting their lives away....wow...there are few as simple minded as you. Entertainment is one of the most important aspects of human life and culture, but I can see you dont really understand that. Also, dont sit there and think that sports arent all about raking in the money, because they are. Why the hell do you think the NFL is trying to make an eighteen game season. Yeah, Esports arent at the mass entertainment level yet, but with things like the GSL they will eventually get there. Your logic is so insane its not even funny. I also love how you try to completely change the subject by spewing out insanity whenever you know your obviously wrong. Finally, it's hilarious to see you harping on the same points even after I give the obvious reasons why you are wrong. It's like I said though, ignorance and stupidity will always win an argument. Have fun thinking they way you do and then eventually finding out you're as worthless as anyone else in your flawed childish view of things. "
I love how you had to start talking about REAL sports and completely ignored how I was talking about competitive gaming. How can you even compare a couple of nerds playing computer games to athletes participating in sports? Is this a fucking joke? The twilight zone maybe? Sports are entrenched in society for many reasons, most of them pretty damn positive. There is very little that is positive or productive for society when it comes to playing video games. They are just like any other hobby. How many competitive model car builders do you see out there making big bucks and dominating the television channels? None. Use your brain dick weed, video games ARE NOT sports and they never will be. Sure on a relative scale something like a doctor is of far more value to society than an athlete, but again I wasn't even talking about sports which is why it's so hilarious that you decided to completely ignore my comments on competitive gaming and instead pretend like I insulted real sports. Haha, what a loser.
#45 Posted by Bones8677 (3210 posts) -

Aw c'mon man. Don't fear the reaper.

#46 Posted by Rahkas (36 posts) -
@Bones8677: I say we keep them and buff them with more cowbell.
#47 Posted by gunslingerNZ (1899 posts) -

No but with the new patch they might as well be removing them.

#48 Edited by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@RsistncE said: 

I love how you had to start talking about REAL sports and completely ignored how I was talking about competitive gaming. How can you even compare a couple of nerds playing computer games to athletes participating in sports?

Its the same shit you moron. It's called a competition. It doesnt matter whether its chess or baseball, its the same thing, its a sport of the athletic kind, or of the mental kind. Whether you are playing a sport or playing a SCII competition, the point is for the players to have fun, and companies to make money.

  Sports are entrenched in society for many reasons, most of them pretty damn positive.    

With your twisted logic there is nothing positive about sports.

   There is very little that is positive or productive for society when it comes to playing video games. They are just like any other hobby. How many competitive model car builders do you see out there making big bucks and dominating the television channels? None.    

EXACTLY! SCII is making thousands of dollars for companies and people are winning thousands of dollars as well. SCII alone is just a microcosme of an athletic sport, not to mention what video games as a whole mean to society. The industry employs thousands of people and provide entertainment to thousands more. So in the same vein is all entertainment, and your are saying that all entertainment is worthless. I will now repeat the same thing I did before because you obviously didnt understand it "Entertainment is one of the most important aspects of human life and culture", so saying anything is drastically more important is just a matter of perspective (of which yours is obviously narrow).

  Use your brain dick weed, video games ARE NOT sports and they never will be.     

Yes God, ruler of all. Please tell me more of the future. I must know more. 
 
I believe what you mean is" video games will never be as big as a sport", because as I have already demonstrated, they already are a form of a sport. Even so, great job just claiming something about the future that you cant prove or even provide relative logic to support such a claim whether it be right or not.

 Sure on a relative scale something like a doctor is of far more value to society than an athlete    

Again, perspective is what your undeveloped mind needs. 

Haha, what a loser. "  

This is really a relief. Now I know for sure you're just some tool sitting at your computer trying to make yourself confident by "insulting" someone by calling them a loser. It's funny because if I am a loser in your mind, then you could learn and mature a little from being a loser. I understand though if you want to just be your simple boneheaded self.
#49 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -
@DoctorWelch: No, you idiot, it's not the same. Sports are COMPLETELY different from hobbies. For one they display physical prowess, which is a evolutionary advantage (in fact it directly fucking translates to one even now in today's society),  and second they're shared across every culture on the planet. There's a lot of other reasons, but let me be extremely clear right now: you are probably too retarded to understand this so I suggest you take a arts class on sports and culture. Maybe (?) the prof will be able to get it through your head that: 
 
HOBBIES =/= SPORTS 
 
Idiot.  
 
A form of advertisement is not a form of production. Fuck you're dumb. Billboards don't produce anything, they're an investment which leads to brand proliferation so that people will actually buy the product. Again, billboards are not the product and they don't produce anything (unless you want to be that fucking obtuse and claim consumer demand is a product, in which case I'd have to call you an even bigger fucking moron than before). 
 
Holy fuck this is mind numbing. Video games are not a "microcosm" of athletic sport. They are a form of media, there is absolutely nothing about them which can relate them to being a sport. Hell the only thing they have in common is that some people take them too seriously and start to compete with each other on such a level. If your definition of a sport is that loose, are you ready to call EVERYTHING a sport? Dumb shit. Besides, the generally accepted definition of a sport requires the use of skillful physical prowess. Trust me, if bodybuilding generally is not considered a sport, then video games for sure as hell aren't. 
 
Ok you got me, maybe in some fucked up future people are going to start calling video games sports. In that case we'll see. As it fucking stands, they are not sports and I still highly doubt they will ever be (just as many popular hobbies that proliferated even more than video games were never able to). Again you seem to think there is something special about video games when compared to other hobbies; there fucking isn't. They're just a different form of hobby is all. 
 
Perspective? You want perspective? Ask people to rank (in order from most wanted to least) the type of professional they would want in a new society. Doctors, lawyers, police etc. Those will be at the top. Unless of course they want their new society to be nothing more than a burning pile of ruins with athletes running around in the streets kicking balls, shooting hoops etc. You shit eating fuck head. 
 
You know what, I just don't even know what to say to you. You're so out of fucking touch with reality that it's painful. I would HATE to see you work on government fiscal policy. 
 
 "Well, let's see here, obviously all aspects of society are equally important to the proper functioning of human life, so everyone get's an equal amount of the money!"
#50 Edited by Turambar (6673 posts) -
@DoctorWelch:  Personally, I've always wondered at the viability of reapers as harass even in midgame.  The rational behind this is if speedlings can do it, why not speed reapers.  The difference between the two is that people stop building the latter come midgame because of how long they take to produce, and never keep the early game ones alive.  I don't prescribe people start pumping them out of 5 barracks 10 minutes in, but if someone that opens with a big reaper harass and is fended off, what's keeping him from keeping them around for midgame harass, hitting expansions, etc?  I don't buy that they have no viability at all past early game aggression.  It just seems most terran players are content with just suiciding them after early game.
 
That said, this is all written in a pre 1.2 patch world.  More important than barracks needing depots, if nitro pack needs factory, then no reaper will survive against speedlings, even off creep, and they really will be "useless" as far as players are currently content with.  Though as for why not take them out, who knows. A lot of the strategies in SC1 took years and years to become figured out and standardized, so maybe Blizzard thinks reapers might be worked into something at some point.  Or like the SC1 protoss scout, maybe they just don't feel like it.  
 
Honestly, I still find it rather dumb to ask "why don't Blizzard just remove this unit?"  If you find a unit useless, don't incorporate into anything.  But keep it around for people that want to try if they can make it work, and hey, maybe something will come out of it.

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