OK, I haven't played a Street Fighter game in probably 10-15 years, BUT the other day I went into a Blockbuster which was having a closing sale and most games had been picked over, I was able to get Street Fighter IV on 360 for $10 tho which I did since everyone has been raving about it since it came out.
Heres the problem, I'm just not very good at it. got through maybe 3 fighters on medium arcade before getting beat. Then I decided to try the training challenges. I used Ryu and got through the first 2 normal challenges OK. The third however I just can't seem to get...
Then, as if I hadn't taken enough punishment yet, my dumb ass decided to try and play a little online... I have yet to win a match making me 0 and 14.
So, anything I can do to make this amazing game more fun/ make me better at it? (and if your going to come out with the usual "if you can't play street fighter you must be retarded or just suck at games" bullshit, don't bother as I'm looking for actual help and I can't sit at home and play this game for 8 hours a day.
Street Fighter IV
Game » consists of 9 releases. Released Jul 18, 2008
After nearly a decade in hiatus, Capcom's signature mainline fighting game series resurfaces with its fourth main installment, combining the traditional 2D gameplay with modern fully-3D graphics.
How can I actually get decent at this game?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I still can't figure out how to pull off an Ultra Combo.
I try and try but they never happen. Only the Super Combo happens.
I blame the schools.
You get better one match at a time. I mean, we can only help you so much by telling you things like what move is safe or not and avoid stupid noob things all beginners do out of instinct, but ultimately, its you playing the game. Personally I suggest going through the noob phase by just getting your ass handed to you. I'm sure whatever platform you're on there's plenty of Giantbombers that will help you out with that. Its not without reason though, as I would suggest during this phase you try to recognize when you got baited, what moves beat what, etc. You could also just read that shit online if you like reading frame data, but my motto is learn by doing.
Hopefully after a couple days of that, you'll get the hang enough to recognize when you shouldn't be doing shit and when you see an opening. Once you think you at least can do that, then by all means go to training mode and practice those combos. Jump back in the game after you got some combos down and see if you can put seeing an opening with doing a combo ftw. If you just try to learn combos as your first step, you're gonna get nothing but frustration when you find out the only person dumb enough to fall for them is the training stage opponent since you have no idea how to look for an opening.
thanks everyone so far. BTW I'm playing on 360, which easily has the worst D-pad ever created so I'm learning to get a feel for using the Analog stick in a fighting game. Thinking of going through arcade on the easiest difficulty and working up to the harder ones.
" thanks everyone so far. BTW I'm playing on 360, which easily has the worst D-pad ever created so I'm learning to get a feel for using the Analog stick in a fighting game. Thinking of going through arcade on the easiest difficulty and working up to the harder ones. "Yep, do that. The D-Pad is unusable but I'm using the thumbstick and it's fine for me. Basicaly just keep playing but don't keep doing the same routine every match because then you won't learn. Watch what the enemy's doing. If they're jumping in at you alot try and do a shoryuken (SRK) or crouching hard punch. Watch some matches on youtube and above all just keep playing and when you loose ask yourself why and sometimes it'll be something staring at you in the face, like the fact you might never block and always go on the offensive which means it's easy to hit you. I've had alot of Sagats for instance constantly and always do an offensive move when they get up so all I have to do is block and wabaam I've won. If you don't look at what's happening you're likely to just keep getting hit by that Sagat over and over.
it takes time. I never thought I'd get better at it, till i practiced a lot. i practiced with a friend, too who was really good. I just played through arcade mode a lot on easy difficulties until I learned more. I also played a lot of championship mode online, which i find has the less skilled players based on what you search for.
just keep practicing! I know this isn't much help but it's how i got better
Play actual people, do not play arcade mode that doesn't help in the slightest. I'd say 1000 matches and then you'll have a much better feel.
Wow, I'm clearly never going to be even half-way proficient at this game. I'm pretty sure I've never played 1000 matches of any game. There are way too many games out there that I would have to pass by to sink that much time into this one. But then, I've never been one to get to the end game of an MMO before either. Ah well, so much for that hope." Play actual people, do not play arcade mode that doesn't help in the slightest. I'd say 1000 matches and then you'll have a much better feel. "
You get out what you put in, that's generally how most things work. You put time into your career and you get promotions, Street Fighter and all competitive video games work this way. Considering I get in 50+ matches on nights that I play, it's not really that ridiculous to play 1000 matches." @lordofultima said:
Wow, I'm clearly never going to be even half-way proficient at this game. I'm pretty sure I've never played 1000 matches of any game. There are way too many games out there that I would have to pass by to sink that much time into this one. But then, I've never been one to get to the end game of an MMO before either. Ah well, so much for that hope. "" Play actual people, do not play arcade mode that doesn't help in the slightest. I'd say 1000 matches and then you'll have a much better feel. "
I'll certainly play the game some more, every once in a while, but the possibility of getting good at the game in some far off future is not a big enough lure for me to put that much time into the game.
For those of you who are interested in the carrot on that stick, or have been playing fighting games for years, that's awesome. Knock yourselves out. I just don't really get it.
" @lordofultima: You get paid to work. If I put in two hours drawing, I get a drawing. If I exercise for an hour, I am healthier and stronger. If I play my violin or my mandolin, that is a skill I can share with my friends and family. If I play Street Fighter for an hour, I might possibly get a little better, and maybe I'd get a few points, but ultimately I would have nothing to show for it. This is doubly true because I don't know people who play the game. You might say, games are not meant to be productive. They're just fun. I agree, but getting my ass handed to me for hours is not my idea of fun. Fun for me is when I can see myself visibly improving, which is really only possible in a game with a ramp or a curve in difficulty. SF has a wall of difficulty. Fun can also be getting access to new content, but the content of SF is pretty much locked down once you've unlocked the characters. Basically I'm looking for new experiences. I'll certainly play the game some more, every once in a while, but the possibility of getting good at the game in some far off future is not a big enough lure for me to put that much time into the game. For those of you who are interested in the carrot on that stick, or have been playing fighting games for years, that's awesome. Knock yourselves out. I just don't really get it. "If that's your take on this then why are you even playing any sort of video games. You do anything in a video game and you have nothing to show for it. This isnt a SF4 problem its a how you view Video games problem.
" @Scrawnto: Not to sound too discouraging, but I have about 7000 matches under my belt, and I still suck ass! Once you get addicted to this stupid game it is hard to quit, no matter your skill level. I will never be a high level player, but I still keep on playing....think I need a shrink. "
you sir are a liar!... I on the other hand have 7000 matches under my belt and still suck!
I can't for the life of me understand why no fighting games have decent tutorials that teach you the game. The mechanics make sense to those that play fighters but do they realize those that don't have literally no fucking idea what's going on? Someone who has never made a fighting game but is just a good game designer needs to get their hands on one of these franchises.
Well you need to learn your special moves, or else you will lose every fight. If you can't do a hadoken or dragon punch at the right times, your just button mashing, your not effective. Of course I am not that good at the game, i'm okay though, I played it since the arcade days, I know what i'm doing.
I hate the whole tutorial arguement SF never had a tutorial on the snes and KIDS figured it out just fine.
" @Stang said:I am not horrible, but I am not great either. I will always be 2-3 months behind Dr. Chaos, I will never attain his skill level. It sucks to actually admit that, but it is what it is." @Scrawnto: Not to sound too discouraging, but I have about 7000 matches under my belt, and I still suck ass! Once you get addicted to this stupid game it is hard to quit, no matter your skill level. I will never be a high level player, but I still keep on playing....think I need a shrink. "you sir are a liar!... I on the other hand have 7000 matches under my belt and still suck! "
And you are not horrible. I hope you are not factoring in the few games we played, that lag was absoultely horrible. Even in the lag I saw a fundamentally sound Chun.
And god damn the stupid bold on top....needs to be fixed.
aww thanks... you only really won though because you could mash down, forward and punch faster than I could block.
You're talking to someone who played fighting games back in the day, SF2 and MK2 being my favorites. It was a new experience then and people were on the same page and it also was much simplier. If I'm trying to jump into SF IV at this point with no fighting game experience I A) Have to learn all the SF2 stuff, enough on its own to deal with and B) have to learn everything else that's in the game's now (cancels, counters, ultras, whatever else is in there now). Add in the fact that I play online against people who already know all that stuff." @Stephen_Von_Cloud: I hate the whole tutorial arguement SF never had a tutorial on the snes and KIDS figured it out just fine. "
I hate this elitist attitude. YOU'RE THE MAN! Sweet you've played fighting games and you get them but other people haven't and don't get them. Why not have a tutorial? It would only improve the understanding of the game and make fighting games more relevant again. God forbid.
I dunno.. for instance.. nobody ever told me how to use photoshop... but I figured it all out myself.
there are plenty of people playing the game that still constantly jump at you and never block... it seems pretty easy to piece it all together... I hadn't played a fighting game for YEARRRRRRRRS before HDREMIX and I had to relearn it all... I just cannot see what was so hard about it.
" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: I dunno.. for instance.. nobody ever told me how to use photoshop... but I figured it all out myself. there are plenty of people playing the game that still constantly jump at you and never block... it seems pretty easy to piece it all together... I hadn't played a fighting game for YEARRRRRRRRS before HDREMIX and I had to relearn it all... I just cannot see what was so hard about it. "Photoshop doesn't beat your ass if you don't know what you're doing, not even a relevant comparison.
And it's not easy to piece it together, that's the point of the OP of this thread and plenty of other threads you'll see across the net. I myself tried to play SF IV online and was decent but didn't understand all the complex systems so I just quit. Not everyone is you, plenty of people have struggled with understanding modern fighting games.
I have not played a Street Fighter game besides IV in probably 10 years. I learned from watching countless vids, practicing and most importantly, getting my ass kicked. A "how to effectively use focus" tutorial in game would not have made a difference.
The elitist attitude is that I see all the time is in regards to understanding how fighting games work even on a basic level. I mean when I got SF IV I tried to play with my friends and I saw that they don't even understand when to use what moves, they don't understand concepts like controlling space. It's fine that you busted your ass to be good and that's great, but if they had an effective tutorial in the game it would solve a lot of problems and would make a ton of sense. How would an effective tutorial not have helped? It completely would have and you wouldn't have had to go to resources like youtube to figure out how to play the game instead." @Stephen_Von_Cloud: What elitest attitude are you referring to? None of us had a tutorial, it took us a metric shit ton of hours to get where we are now. Daigo did not have a tutorial coming into SFIV, he was just as good as everybody else when the game was released. He destroys people because he has dedicated a large portion of his life recently to being the best. Sure, he has played competitively for a while, but there is not a direct correlation between being good at one game and being good at another. I have not played a Street Fighter game besides IV in probably 10 years. I learned from watching countless vids, practicing and most importantly, getting my ass kicked. A "how to effectively use focus" tutorial in game would not have made a difference. "
Fighting games are so niche for a reason. They've come back pretty strong because they go simpler, but if they just taught people how to play them correctly they could be very popular again. I know friends who wanted to like SF IV but couldn't even understand it.
It's great that you don't struggle, but people that put in the time still can't crack these games. Again, look at the OP.
@guiseppe said:
" I'm kind of in the same seat with this game. I want to play it, but I'm so bad at it and the time it would take to actually be able to win anything online is too damned much. "
Here's another guy that proves my point. Not everyone wants to get their ass kicked til they finally figure out what to do.
I have about 550ish hours of in game time, and I still do not feel extremely comfortable. Are you saying that a better tutorial system would have helped somebody like me who has invested so much time to the game? I say no. The people who excel are the people who spend godly amounts of time with the game. There is no getting around that.
Best thing I did while getting better at SFIV was find a friend who was close to me in skill. We played a LOT online and both got much much better at the game the more we played. It was a pretty close balance between us and I never won more than 2/3 of the matches.
That is my best advice to enjoy getting better at the game.
I agree that tutorials in fighting games now don't prepare you but they could if they were well designed, that's the whole thing. They aren't well designed in fighting games, they're just lists of commands and they don't tell you when or why to use the moves." @Stephen_Von_Cloud: Tutorials do not prepare you to deal with another human being. Sure, you can learn a concept from a tutorial. But in practice, you learn nothing. Street Fighter is an extremely situational game, and only through first hand experience will you learn what is appropriate at any given time. Aside from all the shoto scrubs I run into online, most people have very different play styles, even when using the same character. I have about 550ish hours of in game time, and I still do not feel extremely comfortable. Are you saying that a better tutorial system would have helped somebody like me who has invested so much time to the game? I say no. The people who excel are the people who spend godly amounts of time with the game. There is no getting around that. "
Your argument is based on tutorials as they are and I agree with you, but if tutorials were improved in fighting games they would help people understand how to play the games and what works in certain situations.
And I don't expect a tutorial to make you the best player, but it should at least let you understand how to play the game effectively. People don't even feel like they have a chance when they're playing these fighting games online, and that's just wrong.
Ok, a couple points to go over.
- A better and more extensive tutorial WOULD make the game more accessible for new players. I actually agree here, not just some stupid challenges trying to complete combos, since that does nothing. Teach them about different special moves and when to use them, teach them about the lingo and all that stuff -- so that players that are fiending for the information can get all of it in the game. That said, if you are trying to get better at the game you will seek out information, you will find the correct channels.
- If you don't have the man hours to spend playing Street Fighter IV, you may never be very good at the game. You either accept this fact or you dedicate more time to playing SFIV each day. Unless you have OG powers and are immediately good at fighting games, you will need a ton of practice.
- If you don't have any online/real-life friends to play the game with, you can lurk in one of the many Street Fighter communities (SRK, here, iplaywinner, eventhubs, gootecks) and find some matches of your skill there. It's no different than making friends in elementary school. If you had trouble approaching people then, you might now, but you have to buckle down and make friends. The friends you have are NOT enough if you're trying to get good at SFIV. Most of the people I play SFIV with I didn't know before the game was released.
- The thing about Street Fighter and fighting games in general, is that the competitive and online space is constantly evolving, giving a game essentially endless replay value. Nothing in the actual game changes, but the community discovers new methods of play, new tactics to counter moves, etc. What worked in February might be proven to be a dumb idea in May, but by the time July rolls around people have reverted to using said tactic because it now works again. People joked about how bad wake-up ultra was when the game came out, now it's actually considered a mind game or something. Go figure.
" @marioncobretti said:SF4 was my very first street fighter game and I am at the very lest decent. No need for a tutorial. You learn what to do when by playing not by being spoon fedYou're talking to someone who played fighting games back in the day, SF2 and MK2 being my favorites. It was a new experience then and people were on the same page and it also was much simplier. If I'm trying to jump into SF IV at this point with no fighting game experience I A) Have to learn all the SF2 stuff, enough on its own to deal with and B) have to learn everything else that's in the game's now (cancels, counters, ultras, whatever else is in there now). Add in the fact that I play online against people who already know all that stuff. I hate this elitist attitude. YOU'RE THE MAN! Sweet you've played fighting games and you get them but other people haven't and don't get them. Why not have a tutorial? It would only improve the understanding of the game and make fighting games more relevant again. God forbid. "" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: I hate the whole tutorial arguement SF never had a tutorial on the snes and KIDS figured it out just fine. "
" @Stephen_Von_Cloud said:Yeah I was never good at fighting games, I enjoyed them and loved the culture, but I didn't understand SHIIIITTT about them. SFIV is the clean slate, you don't need to play SFII to understand it." @marioncobretti said:SF4 was my very first street fighter game and I am at the very lest decent. No need for a tutorial. You learn what to do when by playing not by being spoon fed "You're talking to someone who played fighting games back in the day, SF2 and MK2 being my favorites. It was a new experience then and people were on the same page and it also was much simplier. If I'm trying to jump into SF IV at this point with no fighting game experience I A) Have to learn all the SF2 stuff, enough on its own to deal with and B) have to learn everything else that's in the game's now (cancels, counters, ultras, whatever else is in there now). Add in the fact that I play online against people who already know all that stuff. I hate this elitist attitude. YOU'RE THE MAN! Sweet you've played fighting games and you get them but other people haven't and don't get them. Why not have a tutorial? It would only improve the understanding of the game and make fighting games more relevant again. God forbid. "" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: I hate the whole tutorial arguement SF never had a tutorial on the snes and KIDS figured it out just fine. "
And here's that elitist attitude I was talking about. Nothing "spoon fed" about a decently designed tutorial. Why be combative and use a word like spoon fed? Do people say you're "spoon fed" if you complete a tutorial in any other type of game and then jump into the online play? Forza 3? Any one of the many popular FPS games? It's silly." @Stephen_Von_Cloud said:
" @marioncobretti said:SF4 was my very first street fighter game and I am at the very lest decent. No need for a tutorial. You learn what to do when by playing not by being spoon fed "You're talking to someone who played fighting games back in the day, SF2 and MK2 being my favorites. It was a new experience then and people were on the same page and it also was much simplier. If I'm trying to jump into SF IV at this point with no fighting game experience I A) Have to learn all the SF2 stuff, enough on its own to deal with and B) have to learn everything else that's in the game's now (cancels, counters, ultras, whatever else is in there now). Add in the fact that I play online against people who already know all that stuff. I hate this elitist attitude. YOU'RE THE MAN! Sweet you've played fighting games and you get them but other people haven't and don't get them. Why not have a tutorial? It would only improve the understanding of the game and make fighting games more relevant again. God forbid. "" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: I hate the whole tutorial arguement SF never had a tutorial on the snes and KIDS figured it out just fine. "
@lordofultima said:
Thank you. Someone who knows their SF shit and is reasonable. The SF tutorials as is are garbage, as is the practice mode in every fighting game I've played, and having a decent tutorial would only improve the game.
"
- A better and more extensive tutorial WOULD make the game more accessible for new players. I actually agree here, not just some stupid challenges trying to complete combos, since that does nothing. Teach them about different special moves and when to use them, teach them about the lingo and all that stuff -- so that players that are fiending for the information can get all of it in the game. That said, if you are trying to get better at the game you will seek out information, you will find the correct channels.
But im curious, if you were to make a tutorial for SF4 what would include with it?
See you are taking that same "spoon fed" attitude from earlier, I just don't understand the hostility. No one has to be amazing, it's just a tutorial that helps you learn the game would make the game far more accessible. The thing you have to realize is that not everyone is the type to throw themselves into the online and face defeat many times before they learn the game. A good amount of people would like to learn the ins and outs in a safe environment so they can feel comfortable going online." @Stephen_Von_Cloud: And your bringing the "Im not actually going to apply my self and try to learn the game so it should just tell me how to be amazing" attitude. tbh Im sick of it, at this point if you still think SF4 should have a tutorial almost a year after release you're not trying hard enough/you dont actually care. Do I think that SF4 would benefit from a good tutorial sure. Does it desperatly need it and alienate people with out it hell fucking no. 80% of the people who talk about frame data on this forum never played a SF game serious until this one. Clearly a tutorial is not needed. But im curious, if you were to make a tutorial for SF4 what would include with it? "
Here's an example of what I think they should do:
The CPU bot options they have in the practice mode of fighting games are good, but they should set them up with the moves so you have a good idea of when to use the moves. For example, a tutorial on countering jumping attacks would be available on the menu with a few levels of difficulty. For the easiest option, you are presented with your command list for the best moves available to your character for countering these moves, both special and regular moves, and the enemy simply jumps and attacks. After you counter things could be reset with a press of the button to start the whole thing over. On the higher levels of the tutorial, the battle against the computer unfolds more like a standard match but with an increased tendency for your opponent to attack from the air. Your commands for countering air attacks are presented on screen still and feedback is given when you're doing it right.
Similar approaches could be used for things like fireball attacks, starting off deliberate with only fireballs but growing to include other moves with increased tendency to those ranged attacks.
A narrated demo mode could be included for each tutorial, narrated by the guys at Capcom.
Beyond that you could go with challenge type modes, somewhat similar to what's already in the game's tutorial modes, but with a more organic feel. Make objectives within a match that will make players try out more moves and work on different areas.
Tie this in with the online, similar to a system that games like the NBA 2k series uses, and you can analyze online matches you're involved in and the game could tell you what you do most, what seems to beat you most often, and could suggest tutorials or different practice options from there.
I don't see how this isn't too reasonable. Will everyone need or use this? No, but it will only improve the quality of play for fighting games and their player bases would certainly grow with more players who otherwise might stay away or give up.
Seriously no other game does what your asking. Thats why is spoon fed.
Also, this isn't MK or Tekken where you need to see what a 10 hit combo looks like before you can practice it. Its about using 3-6 special moves you are given at the right time, which you need to find out for your self. Challnge mode is there to help you with basic combos but for the most part its there to just help you with the concept on combos in street fighter and "being safe"
" @Stephen_Von_Cloud: So you want the game to tell you how to do everything? Tell me then, when a FPS comes out do you need a sniping tutorial that tells you that you need to lead your target? Nope you learn that from experience. What about when your playing COD/BF does it ever tell you good or bad times to sprint? Nope, does it need to? Also no, you learn that from playing. Same thing with fighting games, you have to learn and put 1 thing together with another when something is happening. In SF4 you can program the bot your self, so if you are having troubles with people jumping in on you then you can go into training mode set the dummy to jump in on your and work on it that way. Seriously no other game does what your asking. Thats why is spoon fed. Also, this isn't MK or Tekken where you need to see what a 10 hit combo looks like before you can practice it. Its about using 3-6 special moves you are given at the right time, which you need to find out for your self. Challnge mode is there to help you with basic combos but for the most part its there to just help you with the concept on combos in street fighter and "being safe" "How is what I described everything? Telling someone when the moves are effective and then giving them a place to practice them is spoon feeding? That doesn't help you be able to input the commands, perform the timing required, have the ability to apply them to a real match, it doesn't give you information on what your opponent is going to do in a given match, and it doesn't deal with countering specific moves that other characters might throw at you - that's what a fighting game is about. It simply lets you have the proper information on how the game works and would give you the ability to practice. The bot programming as is in fighting games today doesn't help because it's not even remotely like fighting someone, like I said in my post. People just don't jump in the air constantly, that doesn't help anything.
The FPS comparison doesn't even apply, the genres couldn't even be farther apart and that's a complete cop out argument. Other genres don't quite need the special tutorials a fighting game would, they have their own tutorials that work fine.CoD has always had tutorials, so has Halo, so does a sports game like NBA 2k. The tutorials there are fine for their games and they teach you what you need to know, fighting game tutorials don't help you learn or practice playing the game effectively.
Why are you so adverse to it? that's what I want to know. It would only improve the game. What could it possibly take away from the experience?
Please Log In to post.
This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:
Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.Comment and Save
Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.
Log in to comment