Hopefully they'll make Dudley slightly less useless.A reader on the Capcom Unity Forum asked why Gen was nerfed in Super Street Fighter 4, and Capcom's Seth Killian chimed in on the topic. In the reply, Seth talked about character balancing and about where they felt Gen ended up in the final game. Here's what he said on that topic:
"While I see where you're coming from with Gen, I can at least tell you that the game balance and tweaking almost never starts with the idea "we should nerf so-and-so" (so Gen wasn't somehow targeted for being made weaker).
During the course of balancing, all the characters go on a bit of a rollercoaster ride of being stronger and weaker versions of themselves. For instance, the Abel that was shipped was one of the strongest versions of Abel that existed during SSFIV development. This wasn't part of a master plan, and there is no pre-set scheme to try and make the rankings look one particular way (like "Gouken should be #1, and Blanka should be 8th!"). When it came time to ship the game, Abel went out the door as a relatively strong version of his different incarnations. For Gen (always a tricky character to balance, given his large amount of moves, and unusual features), he was caught a bit on the lower side. I certainly don't feel Gen is somehow hopeless (and lord knows I've done my fair share of losing to him), but I see the issues and am certainly unhappy that a lot of Gen-loving players seem to like him less than they did before."
Interestingly, he concluded his reponse with this:
"Arcade version of SSFIV may have some surprises in store, so stay tuned..."
Perhaps there will be some further balance tweaks made to the game for the arcade version? If so, will this be implemented into the console version? As Seth says, stay tuned!
Super Street Fighter IV
Game » consists of 28 releases. Released Feb 26, 2010
- Nintendo 3DS
- Xbox 360
- PlayStation 3
- PC
- + 4 more
- Arcade
- Xbox 360 Games Store
- PlayStation Network (PS3)
- Nintendo 3DS eShop
Super Street Fighter IV is a standalone update to its predecessor, adding new characters, modes, and online features.
Balance Changes?
That's a problem with a a lot of chars thats where you skill as a player has to find a way to get in." Dudley can't get in on Honda or other solid defensive characters, but yeah he's not so bad. Hakan, Gen, Sakura, Dan, Dee Jay, Gouken, Juri and Makoto or Guy need the buffs. "
EDIT: I should clarify, I mean thats a problem with alot of match ups. Finding a way to get in and once you do getting big damage.
Dudley is fine.
" Dudley can't get in on Honda or other solid defensive characters, but yeah he's not so bad. Hakan, Gen, Sakura, Dan, Dee Jay, Gouken, Juri and Makoto or Guy need the buffs. "The problem then becomes how do you fix some of those characters.
Gouken, juri, and guy don't really need any buffs in my opinon, while some of the other characters are hard to buff up.
Like really, what would you do with Hakan to make him better?
" @Dan_CiTi said:I guess, I think the only thing that needs to be buffed on Dudley is his rose move. Gen, Hakan, Gouken, and a couple more need some more significant ones.That's a problem with a a lot of chars thats where you skill as a player has to find a way to get in. EDIT: I should clarify, I mean thats a problem with alot of match ups. Finding a way to get in and once you do getting big damage. Dudley is fine. "" Dudley can't get in on Honda or other solid defensive characters, but yeah he's not so bad. Hakan, Gen, Sakura, Dan, Dee Jay, Gouken, Juri and Makoto or Guy need the buffs. "
He has to work harder than most to get in. Whole point of him is big combos off of high low mixup on their wakeup. An srk or a throw beats most of that shit though. You can punish throws with ssb but even that can be thrown if you time it right. Yes you can block srk. Then you have to try and work your way in again. His pokes are balls bar fr, f fr and cr mp. His specials are only useful in combos.
This isn't a Dudley thread though, love how everyone comments on the insignificant last line and not the article. Get off my dick now please.
" He has to work harder than most to get in. Whole point of him is big combos off of high low mixup on their wakeup. An srk or a throw beats most of that shit though. You can punish throws with ssb but even that can be thrown if you time it right. Yes you can block srk. Then you have to try and work your way in again. His pokes are balls bar fr, f fr and cr mp. His specials are only useful in combos. This isn't a Dudley thread though, love how everyone comments on the insignificant last line and not the article. Get off my dick now please. "You're the one who got all butthurt bro.
Are you shitting me? Play a good Dudley please or learn how to play him. A good Dudley (or even a mediocre one like the one I play vs when I go to play Street Fighter) can get the dizzy off nothing. All you need is a solid mix-up game and the ability to actually combo off his overhead (which you can do right bro?) Seriously every character in this game can get beat out by mashed dps but yo you know what fixs that landing your combo and baiting it out and going for the big punish (Protip: throw is not a big punish)
His pokes are balls? Okay now you're just trolling, his st.fp is one of the best pokes in the game.
Thats because we already read it on EventHubs, SRK, IPlayWinner, etc. Your comment was the only thing interesting." He has to work harder than most to get in. Whole point of him is big combos off of high low mixup on their wakeup. An srk or a throw beats most of that shit though. You can punish throws with ssb but even that can be thrown if you time it right. Yes you can block srk. Then you have to try and work your way in again. His pokes are balls bar fr, f fr and cr mp. His specials are only useful in combos. This isn't a Dudley thread though, love how everyone comments on the insignificant last line and not the article. Get off my dick now please. "
@SpecialBuddy: My bad, guess my mind reading was off, didn't think you'd read it yet. My bad though, who am I to make a thread on a 2 day old article. I'll make sure to check with you next time I make a thread, wouldn't want to post something that you've already read your majesty.
" @Jeffsekai: Yeah but not over Dudley. Just how everyones shitting over that one line and not the article. Yes 2 combo dizzy. Dudley relies on his mixup wakeup game more which is why I feel its a problem. Yes forward roundhouse cr jab st rh ex mgb whatever you want...bro. Fierce has mad active frames but thats about it. "Yea and that's all his Fierce punch needs to be good.
Dudley doesn't relies on a solid wakeup game, if you have a good wake up game (which honestly isn't that hard to have...unless you can't combo off that overhead bro I know its tuff) you will be beastly. But if you're bad (or new) you can make due with his footsies games and basic BnB's
@Pessh said:
I know, right. Your contribution to the article you copied and posted was something insignificant :). And can you stop talking about your dick, please? I'm pretty sure no one wants to hear about that." This isn't a Dudley thread though, love how everyone comments on the insignificant last line and not the article. Get off my dick now please. "
If they make Guy's target combo (MP > HP) not completely whiff on some chars and I'll be happy, honestly thats the only thing about any of the chars I play that stands out to me.
Haha! Gen is fine. Seriously. I lose to that motherfucker all the time, still. It is mainly because I play like, one Gen every fifty matches so I can never get decent practice with. Also, Dudley is fine.
I mean, I can totally throw a fit and say Abel is stupidely overpowered since I play Guile, but the fact is, Abel's style of play is harder to counter and come out on top as a Guile player. A lot of it doesn't have much to do with damage, but mixup opportunities, jump range, etc. are things that hard to deal with. It's how the character plays. To make it "easier" for me to beat him, would make the character fundamentally different.
This is pretty much the only game I can say, "yo, every character is pretty much perfectly balanced and if you're having trouble, it's you and not the character." Every character has a small handful of matches that are a pain in the ass, mainly because their playstyles are fundamentally different, or their style hits all of the weak notes of the opposing character, making it harder to counter and come out as a winner. This is why I don't get pissed off at Abel players when they go crossup crazy. Abel has retardedly (I make up words) awesome cross up capabilities, and it just so happens Guile has crappy crossup defense, so logically, Abel is going to crush me in that area.
This is a bit of a ramble.
@Pessh: You are also really shitty at trying to start good discussions... more so than me. Shit, I didn't think that was possible!
" @SpecialBuddy: My bad, guess my mind reading was off, didn't think you'd read it yet. My bad though, who am I to make a thread on a 2 day old article. I'll make sure to check with you next time I make a thread, wouldn't want to post something that you've already read your majesty. "Now your getting it.
@Jeffsekai: My bad, mistook it for people attacking someone for having an opinion.
@SpecialBuddy said:
" @Pessh said:" @SpecialBuddy: My bad, guess my mind reading was off, didn't think you'd read it yet. My bad though, who am I to make a thread on a 2 day old article. I'll make sure to check with you next time I make a thread, wouldn't want to post something that you've already read your majesty. "Now your getting it. "
Good job.
" Haha! Gen is fine. Seriously. I lose to that motherfucker all the time, still. It is mainly because I play like, one Gen every fifty matches so I can never get decent practice with. Also, Dudley is fine.You wanna talk about Guile? I'm trying to pick up Cammy and Guile beats the SHIT out of my Cammy consistently. Just mangles and embarrasses her. I'm pretty competent against most others, but against Guile, I may as well set the controller down. I do agree with you, though, I find that this game more than most others is basically about skill. If you're better as your character than the other person is with theirs, you'll probably win. This is why I love using Abel against the Shoto-brats. 90% of those guys don't know what they're doing (though the 10% that do are HORRIFYING). Not really trying to add or subtract, I'm mostly wondering what your thoughts are on Cammy VS Guile.
I mean, I can totally throw a fit and say Abel is stupidely overpowered since I play Guile, but the fact is, Abel's style of play is harder to counter and come out on top as a Guile player. A lot of it doesn't have much to do with damage, but mixup opportunities, jump range, etc. are things that hard to deal with. It's how the character plays. To make it "easier" for me to beat him, would make the character fundamentally different.
This is pretty much the only game I can say, "yo, every character is pretty much perfectly balanced and if you're having trouble, it's you and not the character." Every character has a small handful of matches that are a pain in the ass, mainly because their playstyles are fundamentally different, or their style hits all of the weak notes of the opposing character, making it harder to counter and come out as a winner. This is why I don't get pissed off at Abel players when they go crossup crazy. Abel has retardedly (I make up words) awesome cross up capabilities, and it just so happens Guile has crappy crossup defense, so logically, Abel is going to crush me in that area.
This is a bit of a ramble.
" @Napalm: Way to ruin a good post.Fuck. I lose. You win. Damn it grammar.
@Jeffsekai: My bad, mistook it for people attacking someone for having an opinion.
@SpecialBuddy said:" @Pessh said:Good job. "" @SpecialBuddy: My bad, guess my mind reading was off, didn't think you'd read it yet. My bad though, who am I to make a thread on a 2 day old article. I'll make sure to check with you next time I make a thread, wouldn't want to post something that you've already read your majesty. "Now your getting it. "
I think dudley is fine. Yeah it can be hard to get in but the damage he can do when he gets there makes up for it. There are plenty of times I've been able to come back from like 25% - 50% health or at least even up the life bars with just one or two openings. The only problem I think he has is that he's not a very lag friendly character. Maybe it's just me and how I play him but I'm almost useless if there's even a little bit of lag. Especially if I'm against a fireball character. But that's really only when you're online so yeah, he's fine.
If you were to believe lilsicx (I don't play at the highest level so I've never experienced it), Ken needs massive buffs.
I want Balrogs headbutt to be toned down like it was in SF4. They actually made the hitbox bigger which is stupid.
Abels U2 is goofy when you try to jump over him, they should fix that.
somehow the rufus chun match needs to be evened out a bit, same with zangief vs seth.
Horrible...ness.
I love balance changes!
Wonder if Hawk will get a look-over for his horrible Condor Spire (less start-up frames etc.). Odds are he won't.
I get onto this topic more than I'd like, but losing his hands loop didn't break him. The lack of inv. frames on EX Oga destroyed him. I really don't think he needs that much else, but playing him is a hell of a lot harder now that as soon as you've eaten a knock-down you've effectively lost.
@gosukiller: The guy has 3 dp's. He definitely doesn't need a buff to any of them.
Balance DJ and I'll come back to the game. His slide needs better recovery, right now, even if you space it perfectly it still take 10 years for him to get back up. His upkicks needs to be able to be comboable after a hit confirm like in the old Super Turbo, right now all they're good for is AA and his EX MGU to U2 needs to be easier. Either make the character go strait up after an EX MGU or not as far forward or make the U2 command QCF.
Also, I don't know what it is about his c.lp to c.mp link but it's super arkward, making it so no one hardly uses it in combos. Make it easy like Guile's or Cody/Ryu. That's all he needs. Also if his jumping down knee move hit crouching opponents better that would be god like.
Makoto needs god mode cheat so I can always win in all matches lol!
Honestly, I think the characters are well balanced in SSFIV. I haven't really seen a character that I cannot find a way to defeat in the game nor have trouble using. If I use a character that I normally don't use and I lose, it's just that I don't know the tricks in using that character. Like Gen, I know people who can dominate with that dude, but when I use him, I can't seem to pull off those tricks that kill me lol! To summarize, the game is perfectly fine with me. :)
"People lose to Gen because they forget this weird air moves hits on the opposite side and they forgot to block there. Seriously. Gen is fine. "Oh, dear.
Gen was fine in vanilla SFIV, Alpha 2 and 3. This game, not so much. I just think the new characters needs some kind of buffs here and there. Nothing big. Especially Hakan. Seriously, Juri and Hakan are some of my favorite fighting game characters! They deserve to be more effective, they are fantastically designed." @GetEveryone: Gen isn't a foundations character. You don't play Gen because he has an awesome DP or AA, you play him because his entire game is based on trickery and gimmicks, a la Blanka and El Fuerte. People lose to Gen because they forget this weird air moves hits on the opposite side and they forgot to block there. Seriously. Gen is fine. "
Roundhouse loop comin' back! YEAH. Please?
*sigh*
As for gen, cmon. They need to fix him, I hate the guy but they really need to bring back his damage-dealing combo, slapchop. They nerf his jump arch, remove invincibility on walldives, and remove his one combo that built meter and did some damage? That's F'd up, I can see why all the Gen players dropped him.
Unless some character specifically is broken, balancing should really be kept at a minimum. It's more likely to mess up balancing in another way. This tend to be my general view on these things.
Such issues doesn't really matter for most people playing the game.
It's really an issue that only should concern pro's... And pro's should know better that to pick characters they feel are underpowered.
But then, Super is very well balanced. There are some move attributes regarding certain characters that I think need changed, but for the most part its well-tuned.
I'd ask for:
Makoto's Karakusa to have a larger hit-box and priority (and maybe do more damage in general. Wasn't she high risk-high reqrd in 3S for that reason?).
Gen to build meter quickly again and get inv. frames on EX. Oga.
All of Guy's BnBs that whiff on specific (most) characters (BC after a st.hk; st.hk after a j.hp; TC after a hit confirm; TC in general) because it is infuriating not being able to deal the big damage you need after you've managed to actually get in/land an attack.
As far as I've seen everyone else is very playable. What exactly is the problem with Hakan? I've never played him, but any time I've fought him he looks to have great normals and deals a fair bit of damage.
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