SPOILERS:How Many Times Did You Tell Gary Whitta To Go F Himself?

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#1 Edited by Branthog (7342 posts) -

I've thoroughly enjoyed The Walking Dead, so far. I've felt it had a good story "for a video game" and was easily more enjoyable than the television show, which stumbled quickly and turned into adult DeGrassi High and even the comic, which I think even fans would have to candidly admit is poorly written. However, I never felt it was one of those stories that was so unique it just had to be experienced in your life time.

The fourth episode really started to take off at the mid-way point and by the end, I found myself quite sad at the point where we were preparing to take the boat the next morning and Clem asked about her parents. I was surprised at how much her reaction to my honesty kind of stung. But what followed shortly after was even worse.

Kenny didn't have my back.

See, my choices have always been made with consideration toward what the right thing to do, as a human being, is. Don't punish people out of anger. Save lives at all cost. Even if it makes times hard. That meant not always siding with Kenny (but often still siding with him). Trying to keep the peace. It meant not killing Ben just to satisfy Kenny's anger. But I saved Duck. I put Duck down, when Kenny couldn't do it. I put the kid in the attic down when Kenny couldn't do it. I made sure Kenny's son had food to eat. I always felt I made humanitarian and fair choices that Kenny would ultimately respect.

In the end, he turned his back on me when I needed him most. And when a little girl's life is in danger, I have a seriously hard fucking time imagining Kenny would back down from that responsibility no matter what. Especially now that he essentially has nothing to live for otherwise. I feel like the game mechanic was simply designed so that anything short of kissing Kenny's ass and doing a lot of unethical things in the process out of some misguided sense of loyalty would penalize me. I feel like I've been carefly balancing my decisions for the last ten hours in such a way that I always had my friend, Kenny, in mind when making them and only going against him when absolutely necessary and either taking his side or being neutral (like not leaving the girl at the side of the road after the murder) far more often than going against him. In the end, it was a lot of wasted effort, apparently.

So, knowing Whitta was responsible as "writer" for this episode, I actually found myself shouting "FUCK YOU, WHITTA" three times. Those two, above, and then the third when the bite happens.

Unless they really fumble the final episode, I'm pretty confident I'd put $25 down on the next season of episodes (new characters, new story, same world, etc) right now. Especially if they promised it would really be monthly and not semi-randomly. It's impressive how much this story can move the player. Especially when we all have a pretty good idea of the mechanics behind the game and how the flow-chart of "aaaaand bring everyone back to a fairly fixed point in the pre-determined story" parts that should otherwise feel like it has taken the authorship of the story back away from the player. Somehow, it all just works. And each time I've finished the two to four hour chunks, I'm ready for the next.

#2 Posted by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -

My only moment of thinking Gary could go fuck himself was upon viewing the Molly tape, because I think that was the hackiest piece of bullshit plot devices I could imagine. I'm assuming that Gary was literally the script writer and not the outright story designer on this, so I can't put the blame on him. But whatever person or group decided that that was a good idea should have been fired from the project the moment it was mentioned

#3 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@MildMolasses: I must be missing something because I don't see how awful that part was.

#4 Posted by Milkman (16527 posts) -
@MildMolasses said:
My only moment of thinking Gary could go fuck himself was upon viewing the Molly tape, because I think that was the hackiest piece of bullshit plot devices I could imagine. I'm assuming that Gary was literally the script writer and not the outright story designer on this, so I can't put the blame on him. But whatever person or group decided that that was a good idea should have been fired from the project the moment it was mentioned
Why?
#5 Posted by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -
@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. 
 
That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie
#6 Edited by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie

Unless the doctor watched it up until the point they finish, because it's essentially porn. So from there, that's when you begin playing the tape

#7 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

@MildMolasses said:

@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie

Unless the doctor watched it up until the point they finish, because it's essentially porn. So from there, that's when you begin playing the tape

You have a point but so does Molasses. It is pretty contrived up to a point but it was never something that enraged me. I didn't even give it a second thought until I came into this thread.

#8 Posted by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -
@TheHumanDove said:

@MildMolasses said:

@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie

Unless the doctor watched it up until the point they finish, because it's essentially porn. So from there, that's when you begin playing the tape

There's no reason to believe that he's filming himself having sex, whereas they explicitly state that he has to film all his consultations. And since the tape starts at him turning on the camera and zipping his pants, I don't think we can assume that they were watching the tape already in progress.
 
It would be one thing if the consultation were going as normal, and then she started talking about how she would rat him out or something, that he needed to hide that particular tape. But right from the start it's just him admitting doing bad shit and then doing more bad shit.
#9 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

@TheHumanDove said:

@MildMolasses said:

@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie

Unless the doctor watched it up until the point they finish, because it's essentially porn. So from there, that's when you begin playing the tape

There's no reason to believe that he's filming himself having sex, whereas they explicitly state that he has to film all his consultations. And since the tape starts at him turning on the camera and zipping his pants, I don't think we can assume that they were watching the tape already in progress. It would be one thing if the consultation were going as normal, and then she started talking about how she would rat him out or something, that he needed to hide that particular tape. But right from the start it's just him admitting doing bad shit and then doing more bad shit.

Hmmn, I'd have to play it again, but I'm pretty sure it starts with him facing the camera but not exactly indicating that he just turned the camera on. There is reason to believe he's filming them having sex, because it's strongly implied. Why would he start a consulting tape with him zipping up his pants?

#10 Edited by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -
#11 Posted by MetalBaofu (1350 posts) -

@Branthog: In regards to Kenny it seems like I made most of the same decisions you did, except I had him take care of the kid in the attic. It seemed like that helped him some, and he joined me in the end.

#12 Posted by M_Shini (550 posts) -

Saved the most people the game would let me, and everyone came with me in the end, with me generally being honest and never wanting to leave anybody behind and do the right thing to do.

It was a fun episode but it was the only episode i finished and didn't have to take a deep breath and say holy crap that was awesome, since there wern't any too obvious surprise's or cliff hangers, or maybe it just lost its impact on me, either way it was a pretty good set up for the final episode which i can imagine how its going to do in some way.

#13 Posted by Branthog (7342 posts) -

@M_Shini said:

Saved the most people the game would let me, and everyone came with me in the end, with me generally being honest and never wanting to leave anybody behind and do the right thing to do.

It was a fun episode but it was the only episode i finished and didn't have to take a deep breath and say holy crap that was awesome, since there wern't any too obvious surprise's or cliff hangers, or maybe it just lost its impact on me, either way it was a pretty good set up for the final episode which i can imagine how its going to do in some way.

I don't know, man. I would say getting bit and having that looming over your head with the rush to find Clementine with what little time you have left was a pretty big cliff-hanger and I honestly didn't see it coming. I felt it dealt more with Kenny and Clem than it had for awhile and was therefore possibly my favorite episode, so far.

@MetalBaofu said:

@Branthog: In regards to Kenny it seems like I made most of the same decisions you did, except I had him take care of the kid in the attic. It seemed like that helped him some, and he joined me in the end.

I accidentally handed the gun back to Kenny after I said I'd take care of it and he was like "wtf, dude, I thought you were taking care of this?". It's interesting to watch the stats afterwards both for this and for killing his son. For me, both choices were made from the mindset of "this is the shittiest shit anyone should ever be asked to do and I'm going to save my friend from having this on his conscience. It sounds like getting him to come with you in the end is a simple matter of choosing the right statement when the time comes, which . . . seems kind of shitty to me. For everything we've been through in ten hours to come down to picking the right one of three responses? I felt I made the right choice by imploring him to help because she was just a little girl. Sounds like I should have played on his sympathy for "family". I specifically did *not* choose that, because I felt that would be like jabbing a thumb in a bullet-hole, considering he had just *lost* his.

@MildMolasses said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Why would he start a consulting tape with him zipping up his pants?

That's my problem. It makes no sense that he would start the tape while doing up his pants. None of it makes any sense. That's why I think it's so awful.

Here it is. Go to 8:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIPZQnJ5HZg&list=UUUkMbm6Jtqxq2GyFLDg-Azw&index=3&feature=plcp

I felt it was probably the weakest point of the episode, but it wasn't nearly as hack-ish as 90% of the stuff from the television show. The camera was necessary to convey what happened to the player, which then required the whole "we have to film all consultations" setup. It wasn't anything that I found offensively bad, though and I certainly didn't find myself saying "oh, come on" like I normally do in most shows. Perhaps a better way to have handled it, though, would have been for the girl to somehow have felt compelled to share her story with you, rather than the whole convenience of what occurred in the nurse's office. I suspect time constraints kept that from being an option, though. To build up to a moment where you would have any real emotional connection with the girl and she would have any reason to discuss it with you would have made it a much longer episode. Everything in the nurse's station expedited that. So, sure, it was "convenient", and not the ideal way it could have come about, but I wasn't put off.

I really wish they had some sort of a "making of" on-going documentary for this game. I would pay $10-$20 for an HD quality production ala Double Fine Adventures, where we saw the sausage being made after the end of the season. I mean, how much of this is up to each episode's "writer"? How much of it is by committee? The revelation of Molly's story in the nurse's office felt like something that might have been conceived of by a table of writer's trying to work out how they get from point A to point B.

I'm also surprised at how a lot of people here (as opposed to some other places I've observed) feel this episode didn't have gut-punching moments. For me, losing track of Clem was awful. Then more confrontation with Kenny, who I tried so hard to take care of all this time. Then Ben and Kenny's confrontation, which I tried to head off. Then having Kenny think I was shitting on his boat idea, because I was trying to be realistic. Then Clem finding a boat. Then hurting Clem by having to tell her that we probably wouldn't have time to look for her parents again before we took off in the boat the next day. Then her being kidnapped. Then Lee being bit... and having Kenny turn his back on me after all this time. In fact, that was probably the biggest "fucking Whitta..." for me -- more than having been bit. I bet that most of those who felt it wasn't such an impactful episode either didn't have Kenny refuse to have their back or didn't get along with Kenny in the first place. But for me, the whole story has been about taking care of Clem, being there for Kenny, and then trying to "do the right thing" with regard to everything else. So this was the culmination of four episodes of journey, while for others who didn't have those experiences, it was just filler and setup for episode five.

#14 Posted by MetalBaofu (1350 posts) -

@Branthog said:

@MetalBaofu said:

@Branthog: In regards to Kenny it seems like I made most of the same decisions you did, except I had him take care of the kid in the attic. It seemed like that helped him some, and he joined me in the end.

I accidentally handed the gun back to Kenny after I said I'd take care of it and he was like "wtf, dude, I thought you were taking care of this?". It's interesting to watch the stats afterwards both for this and for killing his son. For me, both choices were made from the mindset of "this is the shittiest shit anyone should ever be asked to do and I'm going to save my friend from having this on his conscience. It sounds like getting him to come with you in the end is a simple matter of choosing the right statement when the time comes, which . . . seems kind of shitty to me. For everything we've been through in ten hours to come down to picking the right one of three responses? I felt I made the right choice by imploring him to help because she was just a little girl. Sounds like I should have played on his sympathy for "family". I specifically did *not* choose that, because I felt that would be like jabbing a thumb in a bullet-hole, considering he had just *lost* his.

Ah, yeah. I picked the response about family at that part. Does kinda suck if that is the only thing that matters when it comes to getting him to go with you or not.

#15 Posted by project343 (2812 posts) -

I actually liked the tape thing a lot. It was far-fetched as fuck, but it added some compelling history to Crawford the way that photos and the environments just can't deliver.

What a good episode. Best yet. And that finale is going to be real fucked up.

#16 Posted by Phatmac (5721 posts) -

I said fuck him when he just let Chuck die without any payoff. They still gave enough attention to some dead kid that we have never met before. That scene in the attic and the burial are so ham-fisted too the point of it missing its original point of being emotional. The long camera pans towards this character that I never met were just too much for me to take seriously. Other than that and the camera stuff this was a fine episode. I also remember that I never saw the tape with the doctor and Molly, but I knew that Molly was a Crawford person since she beat that doctor repeatedly.

#17 Posted by bvilleneuve (265 posts) -

I found myself telling Gary Whitta to go F himself pretty regularly, but probably not for the reasons intended here. This was my least favorite episode so far. It was sort of all over the place, and the dialogue was some bullshit at points. Like that ending bit, especially, when I guess the game is figuring out who's going to come with Lee, and it just devolves into a "let's have everyone say outright exactly what they're thinking and feeling" festival. There were also quite a few plot contrivances and things that just didn't make sense. Like, for instance, the doctor taping his conversation with Molly. The fact that it seems really unclear just how infested with zombies the school actually is, and what causes them to move from place to place. And maybe this is just me being stupid, but how was Lee able to get back to the command center after getting the combination off the doctor's body? He couldn't go through the skylight again, and getting over the barbed wire fence seemed like a one-way affair. Could he just go out the other end of the alley and happen to not run up against any zombies the whole way back through the courtyard and school? That seems to skip an awful lot of stuff. Overall, between this and Book of Eli, I really think I just don't like Gary Whitta's writing at all.

Also, this doesn't have to do with the writing, but I told the game itself to fuck itself when it threw a bunch of stupid quick-time events at me. I'd had to repeat maybe two QTEs in past episodes, but in this one I was getting killed left and right for dumb reasons, and it was really ruining the pacing. Plus who thought it was a good idea to put straight-up FPS bits in there? I'd thought the past episodes were consciously avoiding such clumsy moments, but they popped up here a few times and felt really out of place.

There were some really good moments in this episode. The parts where Clementine was missing were pretty harrowing. And the way you got to see the start of the outbreak in Crawford was very cool. But I hope episode 5 brings things together in a big way, or else this season will end up having peaked at (the sufficiently amazing) episode 2.

#18 Edited by mrfluke (5092 posts) -

personally id put this episode in line with episode 2, as its essentially another set piece for the most part, i think ep3 was the best one since it focused primarily on characters
 
i couldnt kill ben, no matter how much of a fuck up he was, and a literal dumb ass he was at taking the axe from the door, cause it comes back to the fact that if i did that, i would be no different from crawford.
 
kenny i sympathized with cause that dude lost everything,
 
but man honestly the end of that episode was where it hit me hard, i told clem that we would have to give up finding your parents and get on the boat and she started crying, that was where the game broke me, what pushed it over the edge for me to be "oh fuck youu gary whitta" was when lee got bit. cause thats gonna lead to a potentially powerful finale, when lee reunites with clementine

#19 Posted by Joeybagad0nutz (1438 posts) -

The ending where Lee gets bit was ( to my memory) the first time I actually looked at my screen and said: "Oh fuck.....no fucking way............" And when I really thought about it, I said "fuck you gary.....". Very intense.

Online
#20 Edited by TomA (2531 posts) -

I just finished the episode, and while I thought it had some exciting plot twists and potential mystery, ultimately I think it was one of the weaker episodes. Episode 2 imo was the best, then 1, then 3 and 4 are tied in my eyes. I REALLY don't like the random zombie attack at the end and the "well, i guess im gonna turn into a zombie now so fuck it", it felt extremely contrived. The VERY end of the episode was bad ass though. This episode also brought to light how shitty the controls are sometimes. I'm playing on PC, and constantly having to walk around those school hallways and having Lee walk towards the fucking camera in the wrong direction against some lockers, it's difficult to explain exactly but I think PC players will get what I'm talking about. Again with the controls, I felt like the action scene in the bell tower when Lee falls through the stair kinda fucked up, instead of having a free range of aiming between your trapped leg and the zombies, it's relegated into two separate sections; so you have to drag the cursor all the way to the top of the screen, wait a sec till the game registers that, and then you can shoot a zombie or two.

EDIT: I say potential mystery because I felt like they try to play Molly as a mysterious person with bad intentions, or maybe even a Crawfford, but she just turns out to be a chick who wants to help her sister. That's fine as a character point, but it's dumb how she wanders off sometimes and you even see her run past the camera all sneakily like a few times, it's kind of annoying how that all just gets thrown out the window at the end. Not to mention that her mysteriousness was talked about alot in the episode, and trust played a major role in this episode in general, and then she just leaves at the end.

#21 Posted by IzzyGraze (850 posts) -

I felt this was the strongest episode so far, at least for me. I liked episode 2 a lot because of the horror story idea of it, episode 3 I liked but I didn't really like a lot of the characters so I was kind ok with them dying, and I forget what happened in 1 mostly. This episode though I really liked.

Molly was a welcome addition. A character with some spunk and hope and DIDN'T BITCH AT ME ALL THE TIME! Yay! Vernon was cool too. He seemed pretty rational and helpful. He wanted to take care of his own and I respected that. I was going to give him Clem too since the game had pretty much set up Lee to be a pretty bad father.

The theme of fatherhood was an interesting one this episode. The tension of loosing Clem when she was getting the boat, being pissed at Ben for leaving Clem for dead, and trying to do right by Clem but often not knowing exactly what to do and feeling a bit lost. I'm not a father but I felt it. Then the undertone of redemption was a nice one too. Having to make things up to Clem all the time then Ben being a royal fuckup and everyone wanting to leave him behind.

What was the theme of episode 3? Shit be fucked. 2? Shit be fucked...really...really fucked. 1? I don't really remember. Who are you guys and what am I doing here?

Side note: I liked the fps sequences too. It felt more like I was part of the action and not just making choices. I was fighting to keep them alive with my 'skill' and not just: Hey I know if I shoot anywhere near this zombie then it'll die and be a head shot. That could still be true but the no corss-hair thing was a nice touch.

#22 Posted by Nightriff (4915 posts) -

I never said that. I really wasn't impressed with the episode and it really was hard to tell what input Gary had on it too. The episode was very middle of the road and ended up setting up the final episode in a somewhat interesting way (even though they ruined it in previews for this episode so I was expecting it). I would be more interested to see a Gary Whitta season rather than just 1 episode in the middle of a season, kinda felt like he was boxed into what he could do. Whoever wrote episode 2 did the best job so far in my opinion.

#23 Edited by AndrewB (7492 posts) -

I agree on the Kenny part. I was diplomatic only when I had to be, but I *did* have Kenny's back. Yeah, I might have been a little hesitant going forward with the "find water" "then what?" "I dunno!" plan, but it wasn't long before I was back on his side. I feel like I missed exactly one dialog option (the one where you mention to him Clem is your family, because I felt like the last thing i wanted to do is bring up family with his being dead), and that means him not coming with me. I'm conflicted though... because I feel like the worst way this could be written is if everything only goes rosily if you have everyone savable with you. Kenny and Ben together would be volatile. I like to think I'll be better off without him, and he *did* at least say he'd be there waiting for us (like I believe him on that one). It'd be really poor writing to use the "catch em all" mentality of the perfect run.

However!

The only "fuck you Whitta" moment I had was when we were suddenly fighting a ninja (Molly). That just seemed so absurd, even though I recognize that the game is more closely following the comic and not the TV show. On the overall story, I have to imagine that all Gary was doing was setting up the path to what was already set in stone from the start. A lot of the events are not his fault (again, not sure if that's the actual case, but I have to imagine it is).

#24 Posted by BeachThunder (11699 posts) -

So, how do you keep Kenny? I know I didn't save Duck in Episode 1, but really, him saying that I only think of myself was pretty crazy o_o

#25 Posted by YoThatLimp (1880 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

@MildMolasses said:

@TheHumanDove said:

@MildMolasses said:

@Colourful_Hippie: Why did that tape exist? Why would the doctor film himself giving away drugs to someone as he explains the exact reason why he can't give her anymore insulin for her sister? His reasoning is that they are starting to count the supplies, so why would he film himself giving away the supplies that he'll be in shit for giving away? Why would he start the tape at the exact moment he is zipping up his pants? He basically created the most incriminating piece of evidence possible. It would be one thing if that tape came from cameras he didn't know about, but they went out of their way to explain that he was the one doing the filming. That video only serves as back story and to provide motivation for Molly. They could have accomplished the exact thing, and made her just as sympathetic, if she was the one that was pregnant and being told to get rid of it. She would be just as angry, and had just as much reason to attack the doctor zombie

Unless the doctor watched it up until the point they finish, because it's essentially porn. So from there, that's when you begin playing the tape

There's no reason to believe that he's filming himself having sex, whereas they explicitly state that he has to film all his consultations. And since the tape starts at him turning on the camera and zipping his pants, I don't think we can assume that they were watching the tape already in progress. It would be one thing if the consultation were going as normal, and then she started talking about how she would rat him out or something, that he needed to hide that particular tape. But right from the start it's just him admitting doing bad shit and then doing more bad shit.

Hmmn, I'd have to play it again, but I'm pretty sure it starts with him facing the camera but not exactly indicating that he just turned the camera on. There is reason to believe he's filming them having sex, because it's strongly implied. Why would he start a consulting tape with him zipping up his pants?

So at first i t thought it was a bit stupid as well but now that I think about it:

- this has happened multiple times

- it is very possible that he was filming it for viewing later which is why they might have a totally separate tape for it

- I have known people who have taped over something or thought they were filming and pressed pause but in actuality they hadn't and had just started recording after "pausing" it

If this is the case they really should have had a scene where he is scrubbing the tape for info, it goes through a scene where she looks like she is going to take off her shirt, fast forward it cuts to lee's face you hear moaning from the tape, he fast forwards and then it gets to the doctor zipping up his pants, etc. i can see what they were going for, but Telltale really failed to deliver that information in a good way.

The one other part that annoyed me was Lee getting that shotgun of infinite shells. Lets say the shotgun had somehow been modified to hold 6 or 7 shells in the magazine tube, was he holding a pocket full of shells or something? You have to kill everyone of those zombies on the stair case and it just seemed so hokey. Overall, this episode was a bit of a miss for me, but that might just because we are being corralled into the endgame. Everything just felt less impactful. The one scene that really hit me, was when Clem asked to go find her parents and you had to say no. Lee sitting on the couch defeated really kind of tore me up. At that moment I started to think that maybe her staying with Vernon wouldn't be such a bad thing. Would an aimless boat ride be any better?

#26 Posted by SgtSphynx (1269 posts) -

The only time I said "Fuck you, Gary Whitta" was right near the end when Lee gets bit, even though I saw it coming, I was hoping they wouldn't do something that cliche and obvious.

#27 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

Ok. This has nothing to do with the writing but what happens if you win the QTE against Molly the first time you meet her? I tried it 6 times but she punches me after I counter the first QTE. The action parts always kind of suck with a mouse.

On topic I didn't really say "fuck Gary." This episode didn't have many surprises. Not a whole lot stood out.

The tapes seemed kind of hokey to me.

#28 Posted by briangodsoe (487 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Why would he start a consulting tape with him zipping up his pants?

That's my problem. It makes no sense that he would start the tape while doing up his pants. None of it makes any sense. That's why I think it's so awful.

Here it is. Go to 8:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIPZQnJ5HZg&list=UUUkMbm6Jtqxq2GyFLDg-Azw&index=3&feature=plcp

I completely missed that tape. Where was it? I thought Molly had a connection to Anna or something but this is much dumber.

#29 Edited by RollingZeppelin (1914 posts) -

@SgtSphynx said:

The only time I said "Fuck you, Gary Whitta" was right near the end when Lee gets bit, even though I saw it coming, I was hoping they wouldn't do something that cliche and obvious.

That probably had nothing to do with Whitta though. Like the devs say in the Klepek interviews, they have keystone moments in the story that they know are going to happen and shape the rest of the story and game around those moments. Seeing as this happened for everyone, and is a main crux of the plot development, it would be safe to assume that this moment was in place before Whitta was ever involved.

#30 Posted by strangeling (1260 posts) -

I tend not to over think the storytelling contrivances much. I can just accept them as ways to move the story along, or feed us interesting information; ie: the videotape of Molly.

The thing that bothered me about this episode?

"Oh, just stick the car battery in my backpack," and Molly running and jumping around as easily as she ever has. Car batteries are HEAVY.

#31 Posted by SgtSphynx (1269 posts) -
@RollingZeppelin: You've got a point, I still think that was way too fucking obvious a set up.
#32 Posted by WorkerOne (5 posts) -

I definitely don't agree with all the Molly-tape-hate going on here. I guess I felt that the implied deal of sex for medicine was pretty blatant (the pant zip + "Its been fun" + "We had a deal"). And it really doesn't require insane speculation to come up with reasons for why he would create and keep a tape of the event, especially if he knew the deal was coming to an end. The reasons for keeping incriminating evidence might not be the most competent ones, but at the same time it isn't like the tape is out on a counter somewhere; it is locked away in his locker.

As for where the tape starts, I tend to agree with an earlier poster who pointed out the doctor probably would have watched the parts he was interested in, and stopped the tape when those parts had wrapped up. If anything, I would say it makes more sense for that tape to be in the correct position than the stabbing tape, since it seems to be implied that the doctor carried the stabbing tape directly from the camcorder after filming, turning soon after since there was so much blood lost.

There are probably people out there who understood all of that (or at least didn't feel the need to claim it made no sense), and didn't like it as a plot device for other reasons, viewing it as contrived or whatever. That's fine; you're welcome to your opinion. But it is a bit depressing to see people bashing a scene as making no sense, when it simply didn't hit them over the head with each point of information.

For me, the only thing that made me go "huh??" was actually the car battery weight thing as well. I also half expected to get electrocuted getting the battery, since I was just flailing around with the terminals while trying to pull it out.

#33 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1914 posts) -

@strangeling said:

I tend not to over think the storytelling contrivances much. I can just accept them as ways to move the story along, or feed us interesting information; ie: the videotape of Molly.

The thing that bothered me about this episode?

"Oh, just stick the car battery in my backpack," and Molly running and jumping around as easily as she ever has. Car batteries are HEAVY.

She also catches a 180 pound man traveling with the momentum of a full sprint, plus free fall and then proceeds to pull him a good 8 or 9 feet upwards solely with the strength of ONE of her tiny arms!

Don't question the physics man.

#34 Posted by strangeling (1260 posts) -

@RollingZeppelin: Yes, but I see that kind of thing all the time in storytelling. I've gotten used to overlooking it.

#35 Posted by The_Ruiner (1012 posts) -

Fuck Kenny!!!

#36 Posted by Stonyman65 (2591 posts) -

I've come to the conclusion that Gary just isn't a very good writer. He can make up a decent plot, but when it comes time to execute that story and see it through to the end, it falls pretty flat. I felt the same way about Book of Eli too - by the time it was halfway through, it just didn't hold up anymore. I think he missed a lot of good opportunities here and resorted to a lot of cliches and aimless plot points. I don't know, maybe I'm just missing something.

#37 Posted by meaninoflife42 (499 posts) -

@RollingZeppelin said:

@strangeling said:

I tend not to over think the storytelling contrivances much. I can just accept them as ways to move the story along, or feed us interesting information; ie: the videotape of Molly.

The thing that bothered me about this episode?

"Oh, just stick the car battery in my backpack," and Molly running and jumping around as easily as she ever has. Car batteries are HEAVY.

She also catches a 180 pound man traveling with the momentum of a full sprint, plus free fall and then proceeds to pull him a good 8 or 9 feet upwards solely with the strength of ONE of her tiny arms!

Don't question the physics man.

Comic book physics are both a blessing and a curse.

#38 Posted by MormonWarrior (2541 posts) -

@MildMolasses said:

My only moment of thinking Gary could go fuck himself was upon viewing the Molly tape, because I think that was the hackiest piece of bullshit plot devices I could imagine. I'm assuming that Gary was literally the script writer and not the outright story designer on this, so I can't put the blame on him. But whatever person or group decided that that was a good idea should have been fired from the project the moment it was mentioned

There was a Molly tape??

#39 Posted by Meepasaurus (205 posts) -

@BeachThunder said:

So, how do you keep Kenny? I know I didn't save Duck in Episode 1, but really, him saying that I only think of myself was pretty crazy o_o

I saved Duck, sided with him on everything reasonable, said that Clem was my family, and he still wouldn't join me. Seems like you're just supposed to hate him at this point.

#40 Edited by golguin (3843 posts) -

@Meepasaurus said:

@BeachThunder said:

So, how do you keep Kenny? I know I didn't save Duck in Episode 1, but really, him saying that I only think of myself was pretty crazy o_o

I saved Duck, sided with him on everything reasonable, said that Clem was my family, and he still wouldn't join me. Seems like you're just supposed to hate him at this point.

I didn't save Duck, didn't kill Larry, and I killed Duck myself. When I told him Clem was family he joined me.

There is obviously a lot going on to make characters leave or stay because there have been other people who supposedly sided with Kenny on everything and he refused to go.

EDIT: And after beating the game for a second time to get all me decisions on a nice lockdown I learned that I can make Omid and Christa like me even more (there was an extra scene where Christa backed me up) before have them joined me, which shows mistakes can be made. I'm sure there is a hidden tally that adds or subtracts points on characters that decides if they go or not. I feel that saying nothing during the choice to leave Ben clinched Kenny for me because Clem gave me points on Ben for sticking up for him. It's the only time in the whole game where I couldn't make a decision. Still got the whole group in the end.

The percentage says that so far only 16% of people managed to get the whole group and I'm really surprised by how spread out people were in the end.

#41 Posted by bkbroiler (1606 posts) -

The Molly tape is in a bloody locker right next to the big whole in the ceiling of the school. You get the combination off the dead doctor, same as where you get the tape.

I'm still fresh off finishing this episode and pretty raw about it, but I thought it was fantastic. The build up of the characters over the episodes, and the reveal that Lee is pretty much fucked just floored me.

I also found the payoff of the Kenny relationship over all these episodes pretty interesting. He seemed hesitant to join me at first, and I said "Clem is my family" and he decided to come if Ben stayed behind. I didn't argue because I kind of panicked and didn't want to lose both of them, so I told Ben to stay back. I hope nothing happens to him.

The end results were surprising to me too. All in the low teens, and 6% were alone! Crazy.

#42 Posted by CaLe (3911 posts) -

I'm just glad it let me get rid of that asshole college kid. I don't even remember his name. The one you can let die at the bell tower. Yep, I'm glad he's gone.

#43 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

Ben was the only guy that went with me.

#44 Posted by heat (190 posts) -

Car batteries are really fucking heavy

#45 Posted by jillsandwich (762 posts) -

I didn't really put the thing together with Molly and the tapes until just now. I'm dumb.

#46 Posted by Hunkulese (2644 posts) -

@Branthog: All the problems you had had nothing to do with Whitta. None of those were writer decisions and in reality Whitta probably had very little to do with what actually happened during the episode. The bullet points for each episode were decided well before episode one was even written and it was Whitta's job to fill out a script for a story that had been previously decided on.

#47 Edited by dezvous (532 posts) -

I was disappointed with this one. It was all over the place. The first episode where I really felt like logic took a back seat and that's what I think this series had going for it so well. Even during the extremely difficult situations, they presented you with all the logical options. Not here.

When I walked up to the dumpster and pushed it out of the way instead of climbing on top of it, that was the first thing that really bothered me. A lot of the tension seemed artificial because I would simply never do that and I don't think most of us would. Lee is a completely capable guy, climbing on that dumpster would have solved his issue perfectly.

There were just a lack of options, instead they forced you to do things when there were clearly better alternatives. Also, how does Ben act like he just happened upon the very same axe that he handed to me? That's just stupid.

And seriously, Lee sleeps through all of that at the end? Just disappointing. There were some high points, like finding out you're about to embark and a fun little sneaking mission, but then that had it's share of nonsense in it too.

Edit: Seeing you guys jump on Gary seems really silly though. It's hard to say what he is actually responsible for anyway, but specifically calling him out as not being a good writer. Come on guys.

#48 Edited by EnduranceFun (1114 posts) -

Mostly I was pissed at the blatant America = Nazis plot point about Crawford. It's a fucking zombie apocalypse, Gary, I don't want your boring and astoundingly unoriginal politics in my game driven by personal drama. Not to mention, it's incredibly insulting. All American fenced-in white communities are literally worse than Hitler! Woo look how edgy I am, repeating the same points farted out constantly since Bioshock did it and was the only game to pull off the idea gracefully.

Thinking about it, the tape was just weird. It was less that it didn't make sense - maybe he watched the sex and took the tape out - more that it was contrived to show Molly's backstory. Speaking of, Molly is definitely a bit Mary Sue. A blond ninja female who parkours around a zombie-infested city, only looking out for number one? Mmm, right Gary.

The finer points of the episode were where it truly shone, I assume the abundance of choice, Ben set-piece, Clementine breakdown and just... really fucked up choices in general were written by a group, not Gary. Granted, they weren't hard decisions to make, they were still the best I've experienced thus far, they felt weighty.

One thing I will level at the writing is that it assumes you are friendly toward Clementine and hate Kenny. It hurts the open-ended dialogue, the pre-set stances they take.

#49 Edited by Apparatus_Unearth (3105 posts) -

WHOA. Never even saw the Molly tape.

#50 Posted by CornBREDX (4806 posts) -

I was finally able to get this to download yesterday. 
 
I can't really tell still if it's just because I know who the writer even was and so it made me more aware or if it's a legit complaint, but I felt the writing on this one tried a little to much to create difficult moments that felt less fluid. 
 
I like Gary Whitta but the writing on this one didn't feel as solid as the other 3 have. That's my opinion though, it still had some interesting stuff although I felt less stress playing it. The heavy stats leaning towards certain decisions indicated this as well to me. I don't know what it is, but this episode didn't carry the same weight for me. Granted Episode 3 was pretty heavy, and that's a tough act to follow. 
 
It's still good, though, and I have my ideas of where I want to go with my story already if I get the option.

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