How do you feel about Destiny 2 in comparison to Bungie's earlier games?

@gamezrgoodz: It's definitely the best PC port of any game in Bungie's recent memory.

@rorie: It had not occurred to me how significant that is.

In terms of just games, they will never Halo: Reach in my opinion. The best campaign, the best co-op, and the best competitive multiplayer.

Destiny 2 is really only great when compared to Destiny 1 and even then, oddly, it falls short in some areas.

Surprisingly for me the stories are actually similar. I loved playing through budgie campaigns, watching all the cut scenes, doing all of that side quests (mostly only applicable to Destiny 2). However, I couldn't tell you a single thing about what the fuck is going on in those games. Even just recently playing through Destiny 2, all I could say is an evil alien empire dude tries to steal the light power from the traveler. Halo is almost worse in that regard for me.

Destiny 2 is... let's put it this way, easy to digest. It's a simple, fun, straight forward loot and shoot game. Sort of like a hollywood action movie in a way. You know what you are going to get. Get some friends together and have a blast. Played on its own there are better games to play.

The guns feel better than they have in any other Bungie title. From the sounds to the looks they all stand on top as some of my favorite designs in videogames.

I've never understood why some people think Reach is so good, could you elaborate? For me, the MP in Reach was really disappointing, I didn't like the jetpack things and it didn't grab me at all. In fact, I think 5 has been the only really good MP in a Halo game since 3, but it pales in comparison to the enjoyment I got from 3.

For me, best campaign is ODST, as is best co-op (Firefight in particular, not counting co-op campaign experiences). 3 however nailed the competitive multiplayer, custom game modes, forge, and the ranking system was fantastic. Many an hour spent playing SWAT and Team Doubles.

Both Destiny 1 and 2 are vastly inferior to any Halo game in pretty much every way. The gameplay is worse, the multiplayer is worse, the art design is worse, the music is way worse and the story and world are so uninteresting that they might as well not exist. It really bums me out how God awful Bungie has become after being my favorite developer for years.

@bollard: So, why do you like 5 so much when it quadruples down on the "powers" that they conceptually started with Halo 3? :p (I actually like Halo 5's the least). I found the emotion of the story, even though I knew what the outcome would be, was better than anything they've done. I enjoyed the different Spartans and, unlike with the previous Halo games, it felt like I was playing someone who was nearly 8ft tall in armor who could throw aliens around. Again, even though I knew what the outcome of the fall of Reach would be it still felt like a solid payoff at the end, especially with that battle that lasted as long as you did.

In terms of the game play reasons I liked it the most?

1. The campaign: Good length, great maps, and great co-op. Was the only Halo game I liked so much I beat it on Legendary both solo and co-op. I enjoyed the set pieces, I enjoyed the look of the game, and I liked that my multiplayer character customizations carried over into the single player cut scenes.

2. The gunplay and the game play: For me, the most solid entry in the series. I could "make it work" with any gun I found and I never had a bad time. The "execution" system was always satisfying, not to mention this was the last Halo game that had good melee. Ever since then they have consistently nerfed melee more and more to where in Halo 5 I never bothered using it. The powers were cool but they weren't OP and you couldn't abuse them.

3. Graphically, at the time, it was the best Halo and it had a slick design. Halo 4 ruined it with those crappy Spartan under armors. This still carried over into 5.

4. The multiplayer setup was the last logical one released: All the modes you wanted to play were there, the daily/weekly challenges were super fun to get into, and Firefight was amazing with friends. Cut this to Halo 4, 5, and I'm sure future titles and they can't even be bothered to allow players to access all the modes they might want to engage with. "Sorry, play in these playlists we approve".

I think Halo 3 is great but once Reach came out I fell in love with it. ODST is interesting, but having just recently went back to it I now remember all the issues I had with it: pacing, voice acting, and I really didn't like the layout of the city. My favorite Halo games are:

1. Halo: Reach

2. Halo 3

3. Halo: ODST

4. Halo: Combat Evolved

5. Halo 2

6. Halo 4

7. Halo 5

In regards to Destiny I think its a massive step down for Bungie. I mean so many people vital to Bungie during the Halo days are long gone now, and you can easily tell that when playing D1 and D2. Some issues are just inherent to the delivery mechanism they are using: faux-mmorpg FPS. However, I've replayed Halo 1-Reach about 5 or 6 times a piece, at least (way more in some cases) but with D1 and D2 I can say I never want to replay any of that story content. Sure, the music, graphics, and locomotion are great feeling but the experience itself is hollow to me.

@sammo21: I do agree, Reach ended well (looking back on it now, at least - at the time because I was playing solo-legendary you cannot imagine how pissed I was when he jumped OFF the ship leaving the planet to begin the hardest level of the game!) despite knowing how it was going to turn out. I pretty much agree with your ranking too actually - I'd just move Reach below Halo 2.

I think I like 5 a lot because I basically only played SWAT and the maps felt right. The bubble shield and so on from 3 were actually awesome in my opinion, I just didn't like the options in Reach (for example, the jetpack informed the design of the more vertical maps which felt ehhhh).

But yeah, to get back on topic, Destiny really feels lacking when you stop to think about the Halo franchise (while it was still developed by Bungie). For me, I just cannot get over how bad the PvP is in both D1 and D2. I adored Halo for its PvP. While the shooting in Destiny feels incredible, and visually it's arguably better than any Halo game to date (artistically and graphically), it can't hold a candle to the story and world built in the Halo games.

@bollard: I also think I dislike Halo 5 so much because of how utterly deceptive they made every aspect of their marketing. Even my wife, who doesn't care about this stuff, said to me, "Wait, aren't they supposed to fight each other?" and, "Isn't this what you did last game?"

I totally agree with you about Destiny 1 and 2's competitive multiplayer: its complete trash. Bungie has went from being one of my favorite developers to just another one in my mind. They don't specialize or excel in anything anymore: they just put out games.

I want to like Halo more than I actually do like it. Everything about it feels good, I'm just not the person that enjoys those types of campaigns. Beyond that, there isn't much to that game outside of multiplayer.

I much prefer doing a Raid over doing a Halo campaign co-op.

It's not as good as Oni.

Step back in almost every way for me personally. Destiny is trying to be a jack of all trades, but coming from someone who enjoyed Halo for its co-op campaigns and multiplayer loaded with a larger variety of maps and playlists (I miss the big vehicle maps and goofy game-types), I find it lacking in so many ways.

The campaign takes place in mostly reused environments with only the prologue and epilogue having truly unique missions, which is a shame in itself because there are so very few environments to begin with; all of the play spaces are shockingly limited especially considering there are only four planets (and two of them are tiiiiiiny). Not to mention the weird level gating that makes you break off and do other content to meet the level requirement of the next campaign mission at a couple points, plus the single player-only introduction and subclass missions (I understand why, but I feel like everything should be able to be played co-op in this game). It isn't a campaign I would play again anytime soon whereas with Halo, I would regularly revisit them, especially in the later games to find all the collectibles, try out different difficulties, etc.

The competitive multiplayer has limited number of gametypes and no way to filter which one you'd like to play as far as I can tell. I have enjoyed what I've played of the PvP though, it feels like sort of a gimped version of Reach in a way with the abilities and whatnot. However, me and my friends just don't find the public content very engaging since the missions repeat so often. The same can be said for strikes since there are so few of them, you get the same one back to back to back often. I don't find the loot grind especially fulfilling either since you can hit the "soft cap" on upgrades so quickly and have to rely on weekly or high end content for better gear, which further exacerbates the repetition. We haven't tried the raid yet, but I would like to before I give up on the game.

I'm just not the target audience for this game I suppose. I have played all of the Bungie Halo games and I have experience with action RPGs/MMOs that handle their progression and end game in a more satisfying way that I can't help but feel massively underwhelmed with what is on offer here. It is worth noting I skipped Destiny 1 and am playing on PC for Destiny 2 so I have only had access to the game for a few weeks.

Edit: It is a little baffling to me that, what their whole "10 year plan" thing they were spouting before Destiny 1, that more of the content doesn't carry over from the previous game. I would have thought sequels in the series would have been more like expansions adding to the world, which just continues to grow bigger and bigger. The game is good about not forcing you to do content you don't want to, so veteran players could easily avoid the older planets and focus on the new content, whereas new players like me would have significantly more content to explore. Perhaps I'm underestimating the technical feasibility of such a thing, but Destiny 2's world just feels so... small.

@ktargo: Edit: It is a little baffling to me that, what their whole "10 year plan" thing they were spouting before Destiny 1, that more of the content doesn't carry over from the previous game. I would have thought sequels in the series would have been more like expansions adding to the world, which just continues to grow bigger and bigger. The game is good about not forcing you to do content you don't want to, so veteran players could easily avoid the older planets and focus on the new content, whereas new players like me would have significantly more content to explore. Perhaps I'm underestimating the technical feasibility of such a thing, but Destiny 2's world just feels so... small.

I think some of that is, in part, thanks to the clusterpuppy that was Destiny 1. Their toolset sucked, it was impossible to make even the smallest of edits without moving a whole continent, and the game got kind of a rotten reputation. Now they went too far in the "oh crap, fix it, fix it, fix it!" mode and they possibly killed their endgame in the process which means people are quickly moving on to other, and possibly better, games.

Really, it's just the same game Bungie has been making since about 1994 but with better tech. You have (a) a first person shooter in which you fight (b) multiple hostile alien species threatening Earth (c) as a faceless/anonymous/ mostly silent supersoldier while (d) accompanied by one or more AI companions who are gradually going insane (e) where victory depends on utilizing or discovering an ancient and poorly understood mysterious power or lost civilization (f) possibly involving multiple universes or timelines.

The more I think about it, the more I realize Destiny is just Marathon as an MMO. In other words, it's OK, but I'd rather they made a modern Pathways Into Darkness.

@therealturk: That sounds a bit reductive to me. It's the first game series to do first person shooter Raids. And it also does them well. It's not anything like any of the previous games they made. Those games don't have Raids.

I never thought of it this way but you actually make sense. It is a very similar experience actually.

I'm not a major fan of the Halo games. Personally I find the narrative weak and the characters and art design uninspiring. That said, I remember playing Halo 3 and reaching that part where you have to board a scarab, and I was blown away by the number of moving parts and the scope and scale of the action and activity. In terms of multiplayer, mechanically its pretty tight controlling shooter, and pretty seminal.

Having only played Destiny 2, I can say in my opinion, artistically far more interesting, and I really love the presentation in a lot of areas, from UI to character design etc. Mechanically... it's pretty basic, and I think that is most positive spin you could put on it. Its competent, and weapons look and sound good, but the 'gameplay' is all pretty bland. It is definitely more than the sum of its parts (And there are quite a few parts) , there is a pretty satisfying loot loop and it is really fun with others.

Conclusion: Making video games is hard.

ODST Firefight was just so fun, especially with the more open levels incorporating vehicles. I cannot fathom how Bungie of all companies has not brought back the vehicle elements of their Halo games, specifically:

• Multiperson vehicles (how fun would a warthog and an open area be in Destiny!). Even letting you sit on the tank would be fun.
• Carjacking enemy rides
• Mounting enemy tanks to prep them for damage - picture if the Walker tanks were actually MOBILE and you had to cling tenaciously to them to open them to damage!

The Destiny levels just aren't built around any vehicle options anymore - which is a shame as they give you tanks during the story. There's a reason the Warthog is such a legendary ride, it was so much fun to tool around in with friends. Sparrows are garbage.

So, at launch, I thought Destiny had promise, but just wan't on par with any Bungie Halo game.

With Taken King and beyond, they hit a sweet spot that left me appreciating that game more than I thought I could have.

Destiny 2 just got too many details wrong for me. In its current state, it's as promising-but-mediocre as launch Destiny:

- Loot is bland, plentiful and uninteresting

- Classes are less customizable

- Nightfalls incorporate a timer (Destiny 3 will make them timed, underwater escort missions, I guess)

- Currency is a mess and kinda pointless

- Xür has gone from a seller of curios to a bodega clerk

On the flip side, I loved Bungie's Halo games, only ever feeling let down by Halo 2 (though what it brought to online gaming was amazing).