@kingzetta said:
Why is Vinny in that comic?
Game » consists of 17 releases. Released Aug 23, 2011
I would definitely get new eyes and some sort of brain implant that would let me access the internet and play games using only thoughts. I really don't see how a bionic arm would help me in my daily life but I would have no moral issue with it. I wouldn't want anything that directly influenced my thought processes though, just information being presented visually or through sound.
Let's pretend. I was in the worst health of my life, I have a few conditions, and my heredity shows I'm at risk for anything major, I'm not fit at all, with terrible reflexes. I'm an idiot and a pretty average human, as close to average as a human could get. Yeah, a human...
Unfortunately, for me. None of those apply to me. I'm God's gift to man.
If there were no addictive drugs then I don't see why I wouldn't, as long as there were no negative side effects.
@VelvetLore04 said:
This sounds like something from Transmetropolitan.
So no.
Followed.
As to the OP, I would say yes. TransalienHybridSanctification. Yes Please.
@Yanngc33 said:
I'm gonna say no strictly because of the drugs that you need to take afterwards
@FlamingHobo said:
If there were no addictive drugs then I don't see why I wouldn't, as long as there were no negative side effects.
If we are talking augmentations the way they are portrayed in DX:HR then only certain people need to take the drugs, those who's body would normally reject the implants. Most patients don't need the drug and there is a test that can be performed to check.
I can't imagine any philosophical reason not to do it. Transhumanism in general doesn't bother me. I wouldn't force it on anyone if they didn't want it, but there's no good reason to prevent others from doing what they like. The question comes down to what limitations, side-effects, etc., would result from the process. If there aren't any (or any that are serious), I'd be first in line. This idea that you'd be "giving up your humanity" is really just smoke and mirrors. If you believe there is a soul that is fundamentally connected to your physical body, sure, I can imagine the idea of doing this could be disturbing. Otherwise, this "humanity" we speak of "losing" is more about what we do than what we are. If a person with a mechanical arm, or a device to artificially keep their heart beating regularly (I know people with each of these) have not given up their humanity, then no augmentation could do so. Note that the movement supporting this is "trans"-humanism. It's fundamentally humanistic. We would not become less human, only a different kind of human.
There may be social and cultural implications for this sort of technology, but as far as the philosophical and ethical implications... I just really don't think there are any.
Actually the chance to be bigger,better,live longer and even smarter is rather easy, in principle at least. But you X'ed out the negatives where these suppossed benefits were bait for something else. And that was the drain your humanity went down. PPl. will argue otherwise, but wait when things like this might really be offered... Though yes, there will be controversy. One thing Deus Ex got right in it's universe is that we are heading towards hard and stressful times. The later gernerations will experience this, and I am sorry for it. augumentations might be a benifit of the haves perhaps.
I can't imagine any philosophical reason not to do it. Transhumanism in general doesn't bother me. I wouldn't force it on anyone if they didn't want it, but there's no good reason to prevent others from doing what they like. The question comes down to what limitations, side-effects, etc., would result from the process. If there aren't any (or any that are serious), I'd be first in line. This idea that you'd be "giving up your humanity" is really just smoke and mirrors. If you believe there is a soul that is fundamentally connected to your physical body, sure, I can imagine the idea of doing this could be disturbing. Otherwise, this "humanity" we speak of "losing" is more about what we do than what we are. If a person with a mechanical arm, or a device to artificially keep their heart beating regularly (I know people with each of these) have not given up their humanity, then no augmentation could do so. Note that the movement supporting this is "trans"-humanism. It's fundamentally humanistic. We would not become less human, only a different kind of human. There may be social and cultural implications for this sort of technology, but as far as the philosophical and ethical implications... I just really don't think there are any.I think that I should clarify that I don't believe simply replace one or two body parts for augmentations are sacrificing your humanity. I believe that if you make your entire body augmented, straight up to the point where almost no part of you is naturally made, then I don't think of you as a human. You are I guess a Transhuman, but I not human.
I don't think there's any way humans were really "meant to be" and I don't see "humanity" as a quality to be revered in itself. I'd be up for pretty much any kind of augmentation that didn't directly affect my personality, although while I'd want my lifespan lengthened, I'm not sure I'd want to be "near-immortal". I don't see how a stretch of time can be near-infinite, but living for too long would just become depressing, unless of course I could offset that specific depression with another augmentation.
@haggis said:Yeah ... I don't. You're putting more emphasis on the physical aspect of humanity than I would. I don't think it matters what kind of physicality one inhabits. If brain function is continuous from one form to another, I don't think anything significant has been lost. If there is no "loss of humanity" when one replaces one part of the body with something mechanical, where is the line? Are you human as long as a single bit of organic matter remains? That doesn't seem right to me. So where then is the line? You could replace me with a completely inorganic computer, but if my brain function remains identical (even if it's simulated) then you might be a different kind of human, but no less essentially human than one in its original body. What if we transmitted my personality to a new organic body, engineered by genetic science but without mechanical parts? Have I lost my humanity then? Is there something special about the meat my consciousness is born into? What if it's different meat? If that physical-to-physical transfer doesn't make me lose my humanity, then how important is the specific body? And if the specific body is not all that important, then why would it matter if the body is organic or machine?I can't imagine any philosophical reason not to do it. Transhumanism in general doesn't bother me. I wouldn't force it on anyone if they didn't want it, but there's no good reason to prevent others from doing what they like. The question comes down to what limitations, side-effects, etc., would result from the process. If there aren't any (or any that are serious), I'd be first in line. This idea that you'd be "giving up your humanity" is really just smoke and mirrors. If you believe there is a soul that is fundamentally connected to your physical body, sure, I can imagine the idea of doing this could be disturbing. Otherwise, this "humanity" we speak of "losing" is more about what we do than what we are. If a person with a mechanical arm, or a device to artificially keep their heart beating regularly (I know people with each of these) have not given up their humanity, then no augmentation could do so. Note that the movement supporting this is "trans"-humanism. It's fundamentally humanistic. We would not become less human, only a different kind of human. There may be social and cultural implications for this sort of technology, but as far as the philosophical and ethical implications... I just really don't think there are any.I think that I should clarify that I don't believe simply replace one or two body parts for augmentations are sacrificing your humanity. I believe that if you make your entire body augmented, straight up to the point where almost no part of you is naturally made, then I don't think of you as a human. You are I guess a Transhuman, but I not human.
If everything from your body is not naturally made as a human, from the brain to the skin, then you are not a human in my opinion.I have crowns on my rear lower teeth. They are, essentially, prosthetic teeth, made of ceramic. They were not naturally made as a human. Therefore, I am no longer human in your opinion. Cool! I'm something other than human! Yay! See my problem with this? I must ask, though: if I'm not human anymore, in your opinion, what exactly am I? If I'm transhuman, that's a very low bar to set.
@haggis: Understandable, maybe what you say is right. We really wont know until Augmentations are a reality and people have debated for decades and such. But, I will simply stat my line of reasoning. If everything from your body is not naturally made as a human, from the brain to the skin, then you are not a human in my opinion. If they replace your brain with your memories inside some computer chip, and replace your entire body and organs, then you are not human. I do not believe that the consciousness and soul makes someone a human. Simply because you have memories of your life and the ability to think like a human and feel like a human, I believe you still are not a human. Maybe its a different way of thinking on the matter. And maybe in the grand scheme of things, I am wrong. But this is what I believe.Finally someone brave enough to say most old people aren't actually human.
The amusing thing about this debate--and this game--is that mechanical transhumanism is so ... 1990s. Seriously. Most of the current trends in Sci-fi technology are about genetically engineering new body parts that are both better and organic. Organic computers to enhance memory and reaction time, drugs and other therapies to enhance longevity. While there's still a lot of interest in transferring human consciousness to machines, when it comes to the real cutting-edge, the talk has moved on from cybernetics to genetics. Maybe the trend will reverse at some future point depending on technology, but augmentations as I've seen in the trailers for Deus Ex seem so ... retro. It feels like a cyberpunk novel I read twenty years ago :/ That's not necessarily a bad thing, I just wonder why sci-fi video games are so far behind sci-fi fiction in general.
@haggis: Really, did you read what I said. I said that if your Entire Body was replaced with augmentations. Not if you have a fake leg, or that you have fillings or crowns in your teeth. I clearly stated that in an earlier post. What I stated is that if you replace your Entire body, not just one piece because you need a crown, or need a fake leg because you lost in a war, no your entire body. All of it, every single molecule of your body is replaced, THEN I don't think you as a human. Because I define human by physical because the soul and consciousness and thoughts and feelings and everything spiritual about humans, are not exclusively human. This is my opinion and I am simply stating it."If everything from your body is not naturally made as a human, from the brain to the skin, then you are not a human in my opinion." This statement either contradicts what you said earlier, or is the worst written sentence I've ever read. You have to admit that the sentence is ambiguous. It seemed to me that you were contradicting yourself.
I've always wished I could remove my ears and replace them with a headphone jack so that if I wanted to listen to music I could just plug whatever I was listening to into that. I would still have ears, but I would just plug in my new bionic ears into the headphone jack where my old ears used to be.
Needless to say, I would do it. I want bionic ears.
"If everything from your body is not naturally made as a human, from the brain to the skin, then you are not a human in my opinion." This statement either contradicts what you said earlier, or is the worst written sentence I've ever read. You have to admit that the sentence is ambiguous. It seemed to me that you were contradicting yourself.What have I said that contradicts myself. I stated from the start that if you are fully made of mechanical parts, I don't believe you are a human. I never stated otherwise.
Neither are our physical bodies. All animals function by DNA replication. We are, essentially, made of the same stuff. Same hardware, different software. I don't believe a dog would any more lose its "canine-ity" by having its consciousness transferred into a machine than a human would lose their humanity by doing the same. Whether consciousness is exclusively human or not simply doesn't matter. Taking water from the ocean and putting it in a cup, or a jar, or a tank does not actually change the water. The new vessel shapes the contents, but does not physically alter it.
Unless I was a soldier I would see little need for physical improvements, but if I could safely implant a chip in my head that would improve my mental function? Absolutely I would do it. Imagine downloading a foreign language and instantly being able to speak like a native speaker. That would be amazing.This. Entirely this. I would do it just because of this. If I was immortal as well imagine the future. I could sit back and converse with speakers in every language before outdoing them in their own national history knowledge. I'd do it... I think. I might reconsider but I'd definitely play with the idea.
I think humans should always strive to be the best they can. So if we, as a human race, evolve to a point where we can improve our bodies beyond their normal limits - we should absolutely do so. Without getting into metaphysical arguments about what makes us human - it would be stupid not to improve ourselves in every way we can. Even religious people can't argue that point because even if there is a Creator who has created us, he has also given us the all necessary faculties to improve ourselves - all according to His plan, right?
Now what can be argued, is whether a bionic arm is an improvement upon a normal hand - that depends on it's abilities. If it's indistinguishable from a normal hand except more durable and stronger - I would go and switch mine right now. If it had downsides, I might wait until mine got busted.
Well, it's going to happen wether you want it or not. But yes, I intend to get it when it's safe, not reliant on drugs too much (doubt it will be though) and when it's not too obtrusive. If I can feel and have it look not too bad (I would get brain/eye/ear augs asap, they're not visible) then I will get it as soon as I would be able to afford it. I actually intend to save cash for when it happens, since I don't want to be left behind.
It's not that far off.
I dont know about you guys, but I really liked the concept of augmented eyes. I know it doesnt really fit op's original situation, but I have bad eye sight and I would die for some sort of augmentation that gave me something better than LASIK could provide. I guess having bad eye sight makes me appreciate how having 20/20 vision is so important.
@Vorbis said:Yeah I agree. That turned me off of Augmentation.That video really got me paranoid.Even after watching this, still yes. Take screenshots and record video with your eyes? Day one purchase.
If I was healthy, I don't think I would augment anything. Something just feels wrong about it. I think it comes down to, whatever augmentations would allow me to accomplish, it wouldn't be ME accomplishing them. Also I don't look cool with metal arms, I tried it on the " experience augmentation" feature on the sarif site. BUT, if I had some sort of hereditary illness, arthritis, etc, I'd absolutely augment myself in order to stave off the effects.
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