@akyho: Sure, guess I'll watch it when I get time!
Gerstmann VS. Hatsune Miku Community
This topic is locked from further discussion.
How is anyone surprised that (assumed) adults who are fans of hatsune miku would be just fucking weird?
Are Hatsune Freakus this year's Bronys?
Edit: I'm joking, it's clearly 2013's "Anime is for jerks" though.
Uh oh, I already have a clear idea where this thread is going to go, but I don't want to go to the store for popcorn.
I dunno, man, there's a chance that this could be almost as entertaining as the Hatsune Miku Project Diva F Quick Look, which is to say that it will be pretty funny.
Why can't people accept that often, the things they like have parts that are easily made fun of?
So the brain cancer from Tumblr spread to here, huh.
Both sides are equally look bad in this situation. There are the creepy folks who are heeding every word of their idols and defending them and their opinions till the end of time and the dumbass Vocaloid fans who can't get over Jeff's disgust of anything related to Hatsune Miku. And Jeff just going on and on and on and on is not helping either.
But hey, not my problem.
To echo the soccer folks, I'm a huge NBA 2K fan but I recognize that from the outside looking in that game seems nearly impenetrable as many of its tropes from the right-stick menu system to the way players perform on the court is so tied to muscle memory, basketball intuition and sheer repetition, much like the real sport, that I often find it eye opening to watch them step into a game they have no understanding of and then get no help from the game to get better. I've found it really interesting how sort of exclusionary sports games can come off to a regular game player.
So if they skip doing a quick look about a game like hatsune miku they get shit on for "ignoring games" but if they go ahead and do the quick look they get shit on for "not knowing anything about it".
It's a loose-loose situation if you ask me. That game looked bad not because the music was shit or it was creepy but because the note highway or whatever you call it looked like a jumbled mess that made no sense....but that's just my opinion. Also the video was funny, if you didn't think it was just skip it, nobody forces you to watch.
Hailinel's right in his expectation that games be QuickLooked by people who give a shit. (I'm paraphrasing but that's the gist?)
We and Jeff Gertsman are right in mocking something completely ridiculous.
There.
Pretty much.
@hailinel said:
This notion that the PDF quick look is the only piece of GB content that I've ever had issues with is bizarre.
That's the only one you've mentioned so far. Forgive me if I don't scour through everyone of your posts to find the rest.
I made a couple of comments regarding the sports game quick looks on the first page of this thread. You didn't have to scour very far.
@animasta: I did. It's the last one I watched before the joke wore out. And at this point, I'm more frustrated by those that leap to Jeff's defense, as though they feel a need to defend him from someone that didn't like a particular selection of videos he made.
Jeff is an adult, guys. If he honestly felt the need to respond to anything I as a single user had to say, he'd do it himself.
I like how you think we go "Hey guys! Put down our opinions and fight for Jeff! It does not matter if you hate the QL or love it we must defend Jeff! FOR JEFF!!" when our opinion we do not agree with your opinion.
I like how you think that comment applies to everyone I'm responding to despite the fact that it doesn't.
Giant Bomb's community has its share of users that go along with and parrot anything that Jeff or other members of the staff say. When they do comment on a video or article, they're always quick to praise and don't actually provide anything in terms of actual critical feedback. I comment on the PDF quick look that I don't like it, and suddenly I'm awash in people telling me that it's just Jeff's opinion or that it's funny or whatever. Frankly, I didn't find the humor in the quick look funny and I'm under no obligation to do so. For these users, the question then becomes "Well, why did you watch it, then?" How am I supposed to know whether or not I'll actually like something unless I watch it?
I found the quick look vacuous and kind of insulting. That's the way I feel about it, and I'm not going to change my stance just because a bunch of yahoos start parroting Jeff jokes at me or tell me that it's just Jeff's opinion, as though the existence of his opinion is enough to silence my own. And even then I wouldn't call any of Jeff's arguments well constructed since he seemed rather apathetic to the game and decided to put on the creeper act. Hell, there are plenty of people in this very thread that are pulling the yahoo card, or parroting the creeper notion by labeling those that like the game or criticizing the quick look in that manner. Do people need to agree with me? No. But people do need to recognize the fact that, even if someone finds something Jeff says or does funny, it's not going to be found equally humorous to everyone that visits the site, and that some of his humor, while not necessarily offensive, can actually be quite annoying at times.
So the brain cancer from Tumblr spread to here, huh.
Both sides are equally look bad in this situation. There are the creepy folks who are heeding every word of their idols and defending them and their opinions till the end of time and the dumbass Vocaloid fans who can't get over Jeff's disgust of anything related to Hatsune Miku. And Jeff just going on and on and on and on is not helping either.
But hey, not my problem.
Eh, it really doesn't matter what Jeff thinks of Miku the character specifically. I'd just like to be able to note that I didn't like that quick look for certain specific reasons without people jumping down my throat as some sort of bizarre Jeff Defense Force.
This would probably be a more important issue (and I use that term relative to this context only) if the game were actually any good, but it is clearly not. This game is no more terrible than Snoop Lion's rhythm game, Way of the Dogg, but both were treated equally poorly by Jeff. The reason I bring that up is that Jeff is a huge rap fan, but that didn't make the review of Way of the Dogg any more favorable simply because he liked or understood the framework on which the game is based. Both were treated like trash because they are both trash, and the appeal for the viewer is going to come from these guys not taking the game seriously at all rather than trying to work with what they are given. It was a disrespectful review of a game that doesn't deserve any.
People who take issue with sports games getting poor treatment in QLs have a good point, but then it becomes a matter of taste, as it doesn't appear that anyone in the office really plays sports games, and given the nature of QLs, they aren't going to learn in time for the QL to be fair. Then again, if game makers cared about the opinion of people who don't play sports games, they would do what NHL 14 did and have "NO RULES" and two-button controls options, but they generally don't because they just don't need to care about people like that. Oh well, right?
This is hilarious! I honestly can't believe anyone at all is upset about their quick look. The Gb guys have dismissed things I love several times before, but it's never really bothered me since I know they come from an honest and transparent place. There's no malicious undertones to this site. There's no master plan to oppress the people of the internet.
For me, it might just be that I don't care whether or not somebody talks negatively about something I enjoy. I have no insecurity or emotional investments on whether somebody treats my interests with respect. The internet at large does a real good job at judging from a far and creating problems where there otherwise wouldn't be.
This would probably be a more important issue (and I use that term relative to this context only) if the game were actually any good, but it is clearly not. This game is no more terrible than Snoop Lion's rhythm game, Way of the Dogg, but both were treated equally poorly by Jeff. The reason I bring that up is that Jeff is a huge rap fan, but that didn't make the review of Way of the Dogg any more favorable simply because he liked or understood the framework on which the game is based. Both were treated like trash because they are both trash, and the appeal for the viewer is going to come from these guys not taking the game seriously at all rather than trying to work with what they are given. It was a disrespectful review of a game that doesn't deserve any.
That is just an illogical argument that attempts to map correlation to causation and has no basis in actual logic or concerns over the quality of the gameplay.
@hailinel: You argued that the QL is misinformed, uninterested and lazy. I saw someone struggling to play a bad game with bad mechanics wrapped in a subject about which they are misinformed and uninterested. I then gave an example of a game with nearly identical mechanics that are equally poorly-implemented, and how even though it is wrapped in a subject about which the person playing is deeply knowledgeable about and interested in, the game was still completely disrespected and trashed.
The quality of the gameplay is directly addressed in the QL - it is bad. The rhythms of the button presses don't seem to make sense, and the chiming chirping sound it makes when you press a button destroys the melody of the music. That is why I keep saying the game is of poor quality. It is a bad game. The gameplay is bad. That is why it is a bad game.
That was because of their feed more than it was because of the game.
The sounds they're completely free to change at will?
The sounds they're completely free to change at will?
And also turn off entirely.
I think the Project Diva games are great, and I appreciate the potential in vocaloids like Hatsune Miku. Though, I also think it was a very funny Quick Look; that freakout over the picture taking cracked me up.
I wish they had kind of dicked around and then said something more substantive about the quality of the game, but I suppose it's up to them. They're free to just mock a game, and I'm free to appreciate a game. :)
@hailinel said:
Comments like yours are empty, add nothing to the discussion, and only serve to distract. Regardless of whose position you agree with, if anyone's, it's rude.
Ahhh Japanophiles never change.
Ahhh Japanophiles never change.
All right, you two. Maybe you can answer a question:
What does it matter whether someone is a Japanophile or have a fondness for any other particular culture?
Ahhh Japanophiles never change.
All right, you two. Maybe you can answer a question:
What does it matter whether someone is a Japanophile or have a fondness for any other particular culture?
They appear to be using the term "Japanophiles" in an "obsessed with Japanese culture" sense, not in a "has a fondness for Japanese culture" sense. I get the impression they're making fun of the people angry on youtube, not necessarily those who may have just been a little disappointed in the Quick Look.
Ahhh Japanophiles never change.
All right, you two. Maybe you can answer a question:
What does it matter whether someone is a Japanophile or have a fondness for any other particular culture?
They appear to be using the term "Japanophiles" in an "obsessed with Japanese culture" sense, not in a "has a fondness for Japanese culture" sense. I get the impression they're making fun of the people angry on youtube, not necessarily those who may have just been a little disappointed in the Quick Look.
Basically.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
I like a lot of Japanese media and culture myself.
Ahhh Japanophiles never change.
All right, you two. Maybe you can answer a question:
What does it matter whether someone is a Japanophile or have a fondness for any other particular culture?
They appear to be using the term "Japanophiles" in an "obsessed with Japanese culture" sense, not in a "has a fondness for Japanese culture" sense. I get the impression they're making fun of the people angry on youtube, not necessarily those who may have just been a little disappointed in the Quick Look.
Basically.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
I like a lot of Japanese media and culture myself.
Well, all right then!
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
To be fair, they're probably going to feel that when you're attacking them by calling them Japanophiles.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
To be fair, they're probably going to feel that when you're attacking them by calling them Japanophiles.
Hardly an attack. I identify as an Anglophile when the subject is broached, I don't understand how it should be a negative thing.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
To be fair, they're probably going to feel that when you're attacking them by calling them Japanophiles.
Hardly an attack. I identify as an Anglophile when the subject is broached, I don't understand how it should be a negative thing.
It shouldn't be a negative thing, but it's context. Sort of like how if a particular group refers to themselves as something, it's OK, but when someone on the outside uses it in a derisive manner, it becomes insulting. It's the difference between thinking of oneself as a nerd in a positive manner, and being called a nerd by someone in a mocking manner.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
To be fair, they're probably going to feel that when you're attacking them by calling them Japanophiles.
Hardly an attack. I identify as an Anglophile when the subject is broached, I don't understand how it should be a negative thing.
It shouldn't be a negative thing, but it's context. Sort of like how if a particular group refers to themselves as something, it's OK, but when someone on the outside uses it in a derisive manner, it becomes insulting. It's the difference between thinking of oneself as a nerd in a positive manner, and being called a nerd by someone in a mocking manner.
Fair enough. Just know that if I ever call any of you a Japanophile, it;s from a place of love and admiration, with only a slight barbiness to it.
I keep meaning to write a formal blog post on this subject, but as the one who subtitled the panty sequence into Japanese on YouTube and NicoNico mostly just to see how her really hardcore fans would react over there, it's been really interesting to compare the Japanese impressions with the semi-tumultuous ones we've seen from westerners here and YouTube. As the fact of her virtual concerts going international shows, Miku's not exactly lacking in devout fans on both sides of the ocean and since fans are generally keen on trying to expand the audience for the things that they like, you'd think the Japanese side would care as much about how Project Diva F is being represented in that video and take similar offense to the guys' apathy and general facetious roughhousing.
The reality so far is actually that the Japanese fans have been more or less entirely inviting of how the guys covered that game. Part of that lack of outrage can probably be attributed to how I massaged some lines in the translation here and there to play better with that audience, but a lot of it also probably has to do with the general lack of aggression that there is to be found on the Japanese-speaking Internet outside of places like 2chan and Hachima, both of which I still visit regularly myself because the discussions are typically still pretty grounded and sane. So instead what I'm mostly finding in the Japanese comments on NicoNico and Twitter are people that are just laughing at and with the guys' antics. I didn't subtitle the whole video because 50-plus minutes is a whole hell of a lot of footage to translate into Japanese as a one-man outfit, but the majority of the comments are just innocent bemusal over how these three foreigners seem to know so little about something that's so ubiquitous where they are. A lot of Japanese people have a genuine interest in how the things they enjoy and just take for granted in their day to day lives are received by people outside that circle and so the people who responded to my subtitles mostly found the video to be in good humor from that standpoint, regardless of how "wrong" or "misguided" they might have been in their impressions of the game and how they played it. And when I say most, I don't even mean in the sense that there have been any vocal detractors; I just mean some people liked it more than others for various reasons, as you would naturally expect. What's more, a lot of people found Jeff's sarcastic tirade over the panty stuff specifically to be really funny since the Miku brand is generally pretty puritanical by anime girl standards there and it's not at all often that you find people over there calling out the more perverted otaku in any fandom there, so they generally found the whole affair to be pretty refreshing.
My point is that without having that history of knowing what a Quick Look is or what Giant Bomb is in general (they had a very light Japanese Internet presence previously, but not much), pretty much all of the Japanese people who have commented on that video grasped what that video's aims were and took it in stride. I made sure to provide context for the video in the descriptions on YouTube and NicoNico, so it's established in Japanese too that the video was part of a greater piece that also dealt with other parts of the game. Viewers over there seem to know that those Miku games are designed for a pretty specific subset of her Japanese fanbase in particular and since they already understand it's one of those products where you're either probably convinced of its merits ahead of time or not, they just took it as a fun video to watch where they could see how people who are mostly "Miku virgins," so to speak, take to a product that is very much so not designed to introduce them to the brand. That's just as true for the original Japanese version as it is the localized product; Sega didn't exactly localize it with the expectation that they'd suddenly trigger a Miku boom over in the West or anything, but rather that there were enough people already interested in what that sort of game has to offer that they don't necessarily have to go on a PR blitz or do anything extravagant to try and convince the masses it's worth buying in order to make a profit. In my mind, any collateral attention that the game gets from videos like that Quick Look is just extra marketing that the game gets without Sega having to expend the effort. I know I read a pretty good number of comments for the original video here that made it look like it actually convinced some people to buy it in spite of the staff's reception; some of those might be sarcastic, but I know from experience that I've purchased some games after watching similar Quick Looks because I saw something in those games the staff didn't and wanted to play it myself.
I'm not saying it's inherently wrong to like or dislike that video. I think by virtue of the fact I went out of my way to subtitle part of it that you can infer which side of that spectrum I fall on. I'm just bringing all of this up to show that hardly all of the Miku fandom is mad at what Jeff put out like the thread title might imply and that in fact he more or less won over a lot of members of its most vibrant and dedicated segment in Japan. If I'm being honest, knowing what I do about a lot of Japanese people having lived over there, I wasn't actually expecting it to be so well-liked either, but I think it speaks to their Internet culture that they were able to more or less embrace it without feeling like its depiction of the game was in the wrong or anything of the sort. They just took it in stride and carried on in good humor. In fact, I also subtitled a similar breakdown Jeff had over Gal Gun a few years back, a game that's much more gratuitous about indulging his fake panty fetish, and that's also been well-received. And for what it's worth, I get messages on Twitter from Japanese fans, many of them Miku diehards specifically, waiting in anticipation for my next subtitled video; they're just legitimately interested in seeing how their humor and philosophy as Western players applies to other games they're interested in.
Just wanted to mention all of that since I know those subtitles got some attention here and that there aren't necessarily a whole lot of other members here who are capable of really looking into those sorts of things because of the language barrier. I'm not here to sway people one way or another so much as just add a wrinkle to the whole discussion. Carry on.
I think the Project Diva games are great, and I appreciate the potential in vocaloids like Hatsune Miku. Though, I also think it was a very funny Quick Look; that freakout over the picture taking cracked me up.
I wish they had kind of dicked around and then said something more substantive about the quality of the game, but I suppose it's up to them. They're free to just mock a game, and I'm free to appreciate a game. :)
Hey man, quit being so reasonable...
Oh, who am I kidding? Never change!
I learned a long time ago that if they do a video for something you really care about, don't watch it. This site is founded on them sitting around a tv talking about how dumb the game they are playing is.
I understand where Jeff is coming from. Fifty dollars and you can't look up her skirt? What the hell is the point?
Are you telling me that you wouldn't pay more than $50 to look up your favorite idol's skirt? Cheapskate.
@hailinel: You stated your opinion a while ago some people disagreed. Others made fun of you for it, that is wrong that they did and still do so. I advised you a few times to calm down and stated my thoughts on a lot of things.
However you are now just fanning the flames, you are just picking fights on people who have negatively commented on your opinion or people who you do not agree with. Your rants about "people parroting Jeff" is just making you look paranoid and are not helping you. Calm down stop replying to everyone, you are only making it worse for your self. Step away from this I urge you.
@pepsiman: Really enlightening and I'd love to see a proper blog on this. I'd comment further on the thread as a whole, but the argument seems to have settled.
@hailinel: You stated your opinion a while ago some people disagreed. Others made fun of you for it, that is wrong that they did and still do so. I advised you a few times to calm down and stated my thoughts on a lot of things.
However you are now just fanning the flames, you are just picking fights on people who have negatively commented on your opinion or people who you do not agree with. Your rants about "people parroting Jeff" is just making you look paranoid and are not helping you. Calm down stop replying to everyone, you are only making it worse for your self. Step away from this I urge you.
Oh, I'm actually quite calm. I'm not upset. I just find this whole thing ridiculous, is all.
People who feel the need to be the defense force for this kind of thing.
To be fair, they're probably going to feel that when you're attacking them by calling them Japanophiles.
Hardly an attack. I identify as an Anglophile when the subject is broached, I don't understand how it should be a negative thing.
It shouldn't be a negative thing, but it's context. Sort of like how if a particular group refers to themselves as something, it's OK, but when someone on the outside uses it in a derisive manner, it becomes insulting. It's the difference between thinking of oneself as a nerd in a positive manner, and being called a nerd by someone in a mocking manner.
Fair enough. Just know that if I ever call any of you a Japanophile, it;s from a place of love and admiration, with only a slight barbiness to it.
That's cool, you anglophile, you. :)
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment