Monster Hunter just makes me wish Horizon had co-op

I'm glad I rented the game and didn't buy it. I have no clue how the game is so well reviewed. I couldn't give a game a 9 or an A with the co-op system being so bad (explained more below), probably the worst localization I've ever seen, and very repetitive... find the big/dangerous monster then keep hitting it. Obviously there's more to it than that, but the boss fights aren't very sophisticated or complicated, like a God of War boss fights for example. The idea that you can't do co-op with friends unless you and everyone else have already seen all the cut-scenes is inexcusable in 2018, plus there are other co-op hoops to jump through. Gears of War 1 has a better co-op system than this game.

I don't think it's terrible at all, just a decent/average game. Playing it I can't help but think how cool it would be if Horizon: Zero Dawn added co-op, since hunting monsters/beasts with friends has a lot of appeal, and HZD has a WAY better combat system and everything else over this game. Mixing the weapons/tools of HZD together with friends would be a lot of fun. Playing MHW with friends doesn't really matter since you can't mix abilities and playing it alone is kinda boring; Mass Effect multiplayer (more so ME3) is a good example of mixing powers/abilities with other people.

I can't help but feel that this is needlessly provocative to the MH fan base here on the site. It's cool that you don't like the game, and it's cool that you like Horizon or God of War better... but spending your post complaining about monster hunter on the Monster Hunter forum to try and persuade the audience that a multiplayer horizon would be a better isn't really needed. All I have to say is, why post this here? You could make just as persuasive of a point by talking about the positives of a potential Horizon multiplayer game over on the Horizon forum without spending more than a sentence or two on Monster Hunter. A lot of people here like Horizon, so it's not like there isnt an audience who would gladly discuss it with you. And if you're just wanting to give an opinion from the perspective of someone who tried monster Hunter for the first time, there is already a thread for that.

Shame this is just a bait topic, the idea of Horizon co-op might have been an interesting topic. Oh well, should have expected as much from the Internet.

@mezza: I'm pretty sure forums are for sharing your opinion and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to be positive only or to your personal liking. If you don't like what I or someone else says I'd recommend just keep it moving. MHW is the main topic of what I talked about talked about so that's where I assigned it, putting it in off-topic or Horizon seemed incorrect. The point of the thread wasn't "lets see if I can bother some MH fans", it was more like "was I the only one who is getting Horizon vibes from this game but everything is kinda inferior to it". Whether you agree or not, reviewing someone's thread seems odd.

Yes this is indeed a Monster Hunter game

PUBG just makes me wish MGO had a battle royale mode...

But without the snark, the game gets better once you start getting into the nuances of how each monster behaves and how to tackle them most effectively. HZD doesnt have that much variety in gear and/or monsters. But they're very different games. HZD has more in common with The Witcher 3. (although the combat in that game is pretty shallow)

@deathstriker: Just giving a suggestion on how you might spark better conversation in the future. As you can see I'm not the only one who feels this felt more like a "bait a reaction" thread than an actual discussion thread. As you said, forums are for sharing opinion and I was simply sharing my opinion on why the presentation of this distracted me from your actual message.

@deathstriker: No, that's clearly not the point. You just wanted to get your hot take out there and let everyone know that "current popular game does not deserve to be popular and everyone else's tastes are inferior". You barely included a sentence in the OP about the merits of Horizon co-op.

You might have had a meaningful discussion here, but you sabotaged it immediately.

@boozak: I think the different weapons in HZD plus the different ammo types put together was a very good variety. The amount of enemies in HZD was very good to me too, especially once you consider the Frozen Wilds DLC. I think MHW would be more interesting if the smaller creatures got involved more. Seems like most creatures are pretty docile when you're fighting the main monster unless another big predator comes by. The is not unpredictable at all, in comparison to HZD or especially certain Far Cry games.

@zeik: I wanted to say my opinion, I'm not even sure what a "hot take" is. I don't even think of MHW as "the popular game", it seems pretty niche. I never said anyone who likes it or disagrees with me is wrong, seems like you're just taking it that way since you're maybe a fan of the game. Some of the negative things I said about the game are facts, like the bad localization, during the opening cut-scene my friends and I were laughing at how bad the English lip sync was. Plus there are little silly things like most people not even having a name, it's just field team leader, commander, handler, etc. Maybe I attacked the game, since that's my opinion and how I feel, but I never attacked anyone. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to say I don't like a game and say why, if you don't like it then just keep it moving, no need to review someone's thread.

A review is an opinion. If you can't understand why a game could be reviewed well that you don't like is the same as saying how you don't understand how people can have different opinions. You can disagree with those opinions, but ranting about how a game doesn't deserve to be liked when you don't is always an obnoxious attitude.

Also you seem to misunderstand what "localization" is, or misusing the term. Adding names to characters that were not named in the source is not a normal part of localization. Adjusting lip-sync to match the English dub also isn't necessarily part of localization, especially when you include a half dozen other audio options. It's not that uncommon for lip-syncing to be off in Japanese games. Usually they try to match the dub to fit the original lip-syncing, but not always. Localization is primarily stuff like the script, voice acting, and general translation.

You're allowed to share your opinion of course, but going to a forum devoted to said game to tell everyone the game they like is not as good as they think is rarely going promote positive discussion. Especially with such a bait and switch title. At least have the decency to title it what the subject is actually about, not hide under the guise of another topic you barely even mention. And if you actually wanted to talk about that subject, burying it under a ton of complaints about MH is what I mean by sabotaging your topic. You should have started the topic with that as the focus if you actually cared about discussing it.

Some people are being too sensitive, someone disliking a game that you like doesn't mean they're baiting, being mean, or provocative for no reason. I like Monster Hunter World, but it is a simple and repetitive game. I was surprised to see it get 9.5s and stuff. The way they setup co-op is pretty horrible. If it was an indie game I could forgive that, but this is from Capcom and has a budget. Co-op in Horizon Zero Dawn would be really fun and I see the similarities that it could have with Monster Hunter. Horizon having co-op feels more natural to me than Uncharted doing it.

@zeik: "I have no clue" is just an expression. I don't agree with the game getting extremely high reviews, but I can see why some people might like it. It does have some fundamental flaws like the co-op system that no one can talk it out of or redeem with fandom, thats a problem that others have mentioned here.

Bad lip sync does fall under localization since the lips are so badly out of sync because the characters' mouths are moving to Japanese when they're speaking English, so you might get 4 seconds of silence while the person's lips are still moving. Me talking about characters names was a completely different sentence and had nothing to do with localization. I'm not sure how you got confused about that. I posted this on Giant Bomb's forum. I assigned it to MHW because that's largely what the thread is about and I had to assign it somewhere.

I felt like Horizon played pretty poorly and never had any of the sense of grandeur or danger that MH games have. They're not for you and that's fine.

If you can push past the first 3 hours *cough*, and further, the game starts to open up and that is where a lot of the magic lies. Again, it isn't for everyone, and MHW does a lot less to welcome new players than I guess some people expected and others had alluded to.

I also think that the constant complaint from new players that it requires everyone to see a cutscene before being able to group up speaks to the lack of understanding of how MH games have always worked. The low rank quests were never the draw, it was always the high rank and G Rank missions that people really found the joy in. Sure, it's still a bad design decision, but so many people complaining speaks to either how uninformed people are of the series, or how many eager new players are diving in. It could be a positive aspect in some light, or a negative. Maybe both.

@deathstriker: I don't want to argue about this much further, I've said my piece, but if you're claiming this game has the worst localization you've ever seen entirely on the basis of the lip-syncing that's just...dumb. (Or you have little experience, but I'm going to assume you've played a few games.) Even if you want to consider that part of localization, you're either overemphasizing a miniscule part of it, or ignoring the magnitude of what goes into localization as a whole.

Again, you seem to have a problem muddling your point and focusing on the wrong thing. If you simply said "the lip-syncing is bad" you wouldn't get a rebuttal.

Horizon is a fantastic game, but the combat mechanics are much too shallow to have the lasting effect Monster Hunter has. I played Horizon on Very Hard and after about 4-5 hours that game is a breeze. Not to say it isn't fun, it certainly feels good, but there's just not a whole lot to it. I thought playing on Very Hard would force me to engage more with the mechanics (it was my first time through, I've only done a single play through), but it did not. Those big Thunderjaws, which are suppose to be big fights similar to Monster Hunter, melt in about 20 seconds with the freezing ailment. That game would be so much better if it had actual tension.

Horizon is great, but it does not have near the complexity and depth of a Monster Hunter game.

Something about the combat in Horizon just never clicked with me. The enemies felt pointless, in combination because the loot had no reason to exist in the game 90% of the time, and also because they were all fucking everywhere. After fighting one of each enemy a couple times I was bored of it: they have limited movesets, shooting them with arrows is a tactic that literally works 100% of the time on every enemy, and they all behave exactly the same no matter where they are in the map.

Reverse all those statements and you have my opinion on Monster Hunter's combat.

@zeik: I made my point just fine. Certain cut-scenes in this game do have some of the worst lip sync I've seen in a game and that does fall under localization. Just because you disagree or dont like how I wrote it doesn't mean I'm wrong, it's subjective and anecdotal.

The lip flaps do not sync with any language offered by the game, not even the fake one, so I'm definitely not going to pin that on the localization, I'm gonna just say the game in general did a bad job with it.

There are many things I like about Horizon but I also did turn the game down to easy and still sighed audibly every time something noticed me long enough to have to fight it.

@deathstriker: Claiming a game has "the worst localization you've ever seen" is a very bold and grand statement, because it encompasses many many things beyond the likes of lip-syncing. If you stand by that statement purely on the basis of the lip-syncing then you're just plain wrong, or simply don't have enough experience with games. Putting bad lip-syncing at the same level as games with incomprehensible scripts, poorly translated menus and items, bad voice acting, or games full of game breaking bugs is simply absurd.

There are many many badly localized games from the last several decades. MHW is not even a blip on the radar. Even in just the last several months there was that huge fiasco with Ys 8 where NISA had to basically relocalize the whole game and re-release it because it was so poor.

The argument of lipsync, and how bad it is again reflects on how little time you've likely put into the game and a misunderstanding of what the point of these games has always been and continues to be. Yes it is bad. But I reiterate from my previous post that the story was never the point of these games. They hardly had a story until World.

Most of us are on a similar page in a lot of the complaints you choose to argue for most. But the difference is that you take bad lip sync and bad co-op structure during the campaign out of context of what the series has been for more than a decade. They're still very valid complaints. But I also do not understand the point of the thread when you are ostensibly trying to tie MH to Horizon, only to speak only of MH's faults.

No one has reviewed your thread, and it should only be fair to accept criticism in response to your criticism(though again, your title did not present itself as being a critical discussion). I review this thread as a 6/10. Docked a few points because I can't stand myself.

@crazybagman: The way they have co-op setup is pretty awful, even if it was an intentional design decision from the start and not because of technical reasons. Joining friends in co-op is easy nowadays. The idea that my friends and I would have to start a mission solo, track the monster down for a few minutes, watch a cutscene, then exit expedition and join someone's game after all the cutscenes are over is pretty annoying. I was never going to buy the game, but my two friends would've bought the game if co-op wasn't so many hoops and I'm sure they're not the only ones, Capcom lost money with that decision.

Even with the flaws I can see some of the appeal of the game. I would've like more combos with each weapon, a more visceral feeling when hitting something, and other things. To me, a 9.5 or near that level is reserved for something like Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2, Skyrim, etc and MHW is nowhere near their level. I was a little iffy on the combat of Horizon until I saw how stripping an enemy's armor worked, weak points, and how different elements affected them. Doing melee with the staff was kinda pointless though.

I never thought MHW was story heavy, my friends and I just thought some of the cutscenes were hilarious due to bad lip sync and/or dialogue. It's not a major part of the game, just noticeably bad. Yeah, obviously those things aren't important here like it was with something like the Mass Effect game dropping the ball. To me the topic of the thread obviously implies I didn't like MHW that much. If I liked MHW I wouldn't wish it was something else. Playing this reminded me of HZD and it made me wish that game had co-op, I was actually going to edit in more points about that a couple minutes after I posted this thread, but there's some error with the site right now and it wouldn't let me edit the original post.

I don't think it is a "bait" topic at all. Is it possible that you are a little too sensitive when it comes to criticism of Monster Hunter?

@mike: I already explained why it seemed like bait and switch. The title has little to do with the subject of the post. Presenting the topic as being about the merits of having co-op in Horizon and then reading a long diatribe about Monster Hunter is just obnoxious.

@mike: I think you're wrong AND people can be too sensitive when it comes to criticism. OP claiming ignorance to how insulting this reads to someone who likes this game rings hollow to most of us here.

There's every chance in the world he didn't intend that take but then what's intent?

@mike: To be fair there's more than a couple sentences in the OP that are hyperbolic to the point of coming off as provoking to people who like the game. Can you really blame anyone for being sensitive to this:

"HZD has a WAY better combat system and everything else over this game"

"I have no clue how the game is so well reviewed"

"probably the worst localization I've ever seen,"

"Playing MHW with friends doesn't really matter since you can't mix abilities"

"the boss fights aren't very sophisticated or complicated"

There is some legitimate criticism in the thread. However, it being mixed in with the above, which are a mixture of hyperbole or are just being thrown out there with no additional support to tell us why the statement is true, the original post comes off as more than a little off putting. Especially since the thread originally looks to be just a discussion on why Horizon would benefit from having a multiplayer system in the vain of what Monster Hunter tries to go for.

Edit: nevermind. After that whole liberal example below I think this is going too far and don't feel like supporting this side. I think I've voiced my objections well enough anyway to where I don't have much more to add.

@lv4monk: I have to agree with @mike. If the OP was insulting people I'd agree with you, but he is giving his opinion on a game. It seems like most the people who are objecting against him saying his opinion are trying to hijack the thread because they don't like the criticism.

I'm against needless censorship and someone can insult a product/company as much as they'd like. People feeling attacked/insulted because someone disses a product they like just seems really soft, sensitive, and too fanboyish.

@assumedkilla: There's a common implication that you'd have to be an idiot/sheep/in someones pockets to like a game someone else doesn't like. Language is a funny thing where you can get a point across without literally saying it and understanding the point you're REALLY getting at is key.

It's like all the hate Patrick Klepek gets. Absolutely there are critics who legit don't jive with him, doesn't account for the coded language that mocks liberals and whatever they associate with them. They wont come out and say it, of course.

@lv4monk: The OP seems hard on the game, but I don't see anything in here that's insulting to a person and that's really all that matters. MHW isn't a person that can be insulted, hurt, or needs to be defended, some people in here seem to be taking things personal.

@assumedkilla: That's totally fair, but I do see it.

Again, every chance I'm wrong about his intent but I'm clearly not the only one seeing it.

I hated Horizon's combat and am loving MH: World

Different people like different things :shrug:

Like I said before, I was trying to edit my original post a couple minutes after I posted this thread, to give a couple more points on what I was talking about, but I get an error every time I try to update the OP, so I'll put it here for now:

Evolve wasn't a great game, but I think the roles it had made sense. I wish MHW had weapons/tools that focused on trapping/slowing, healing, agro, etc that way people could kinda choose a role and co-op would feel more strategic. All of that should be optional, but the option would be nice. At the moment it feels like everyone is just slowly chipping away at a monster's health slowly with different melee and projectile weapons, it's kinda mindless to me. I feel the same way about Destiny co-op, it doesn't really add anything.

HZD weapons do lend itself somewhat already since you can have someone with the trapper gun, someone gets a mount to track the prey, the heavy bow as the damage dealer, etc. I really like the idea of hunting something with my friends in a game, but MHW didn't have the gameplay or production value that left a great lasting impression. I could see HZD filling that void with a co-op mode.

I don’t care. I love this game all my heart. My girlfriend understands this too.

@mezza: ouch, talk about implications.

@deathstriker: At any rate I do agree that MHW would be more interesting with more defined roles. If MMOs have taught me anything it's that most people don't want a strong focus on complicated, intricate cooperation so I understand why they don't. It's what I dig, though.

Meh, Horizon was a fairly mediocre far cry game. Some of the robots were fun to fight but for the most part they got old real quick. What little I've played of monster hunter from the beta was already way more interesting

Monster Hunter makes me wish Horizon had just as good combat. Horizon's combat is so frustrating with that claustrophobic camera, you can't see 2 feet in front of you when you run away from the monster or sideways, causing you to bump into things the character can't walk or jump over and you get stuck, everything hits like a damn truck and has a range of a mile so running usually is futile, a couple of hits and you're dead. The Damage scaling is way off, even just regular humans with sticks do as much damage as the giant robots.

@deathstriker: Have you tried not sucking at the game? I jest, just had to try and match your original tone.

But seriously, Monster Hunter definitely has roles. For example, different body parts need different types of weapons to be broken. Then, you'll have effects like sleep and paralysis that you'll assign to people. Sometimes even poison. You really can't just have everybody go DPS. Additionally, you'll need someone who can do something about flying monsters. You can somewhat circumvent all of this by having one player with a bowgun since they have versatile ammo, but most of the time even then you're better off with different roles for everyone.

For example, at one point my group had a tactic where one would focus on breaking horns, one would try to slice off the tail and one would work on trying mount the beast so it can be downed.

A lot of your complaints stem from the early game or very specific missions. The co-op thing is only for the story missions, if you do any of the other hunts that aren't in the assigned category you can join up anytime. The idea that monsters don't get sophisticated is crazy if you've fought any of the monsters in high rank. If you make a wrong move, sometimes even if you don't, you're going to have a real bad time. As stated above there are roles that you can take to increase the effectiveness of your party. You don't have to though if you don't want to, but you'll probably end up fumbling around and getting in each other's way a lot, sometimes even interrupting each other's attacks.

Honestly a lot of your complaints stem from having not played very much of the game at all it seems. That's not to say the game doesn't have a lot of issues, the co-op thing for story missions is a shitty thing for example, but a lot of the ones you mentioned aren't problems once you get into the game proper and not just the starting tutorial hunts essentially.

There’s some obtuse nonsense to figure out around co-op, but it’s well worth it.

As for long boss fights, I wouldn’t have it any other way. I play fighting games with min damage / max health. I enjoy wrestling games because the fights are like stories, with an ebb and flow and time for things to change.

When you’re co-oping a difficult monster and are on that last life about 30 minutes in, it’s a great feeling.