American Government is Shut Down!

That may be true in some cases, but the bottom line is that I know a lot of people that develop such overly dogmatic views fueled by their culture, social circle, and cable news that it really is impossible to have any civil discussion with them. Some people just aren't willing to concede that they might be wrong about anything, and they will relentlessly defend those views.

Maybe things would be better if those people did start debating and discussing these issues at a younger age, and they had a good example to follow for how to properly have those discussions (i.e. teachers, parents, etc...anything except cable news).

I can attest to this having some effect. Over the years, I've gotten in many discussions and arguments with friends and family over sensitive subjects such as politics and religion, and fortunately, even when people can talk in the extreme at times, we can usually bring things back down to a more reasonable back and forth.

It helps that they know from experience that I am interested in their views and want to resolve any misunderstanding. When that isn't clear and there is a lack of faith regarding someone's motives and education, it can be very easy to just see someone else as a representation of the people you disagree with instead of the individual you're actually disagreeing with. Regularly having discussions on various topics, even briefly, can have a big effect in the long term toward improving each other's etiquette and level of understanding in arguments like this.

So people are burning themselves to death now. Great!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/05/us-usa-immolation-idUSBRE99311B20131005

@turambar said:

@gorillamopena said:

BREAKING NEWS

He went to get sandwiches.

He needs to get his own lunch now? This must end NOW!

The law has fucked me over pretty hard. I was uninsured before, but now I'm being forced to shell out money that I don't have. My hours were cut at work from 40 to 29, making me (and most everyone else at my job) part-time employee's. So basically, I've got more expenditures per month to pay and less income to do so with. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, might have to find a second job now I guess.

Here is some detailed information, now in video form, of what would happen if the U.S. government were to default on its debt come October 17.

I live in a city with a shipyard and pretty much everyone is either furloughed, or is working for IOUs. They don't get paid until this whole thing passes and when they do get paid, it's a giant paycheck all at once which ends up being taxed more which ends up being less money than they would have made before and they're already on 20% pay cuts.

I'm not an American nor do I fully understand the intricacies of your healthcare system but it seems off that the government wouldn't have some sort of safety net for those who cannot afford basic health insurance. This site makes it seem like if you are below the poverty level you are either eligible for Medicaid or for some subsidies depending on your state. I hope you live in one of those states that support the program because having work hours cut really sucks. Good luck, duder.

It sure must be nice to know that your employer cares so little about you that they will basically pretend you don't exists in case something bad happens to you

When does the revolution start?

October 18th.

@ben_h: I'll bring the popcorn!

Us fine folks in Michigan are doing our part to make the "shut down" a little easier for people.

I just moved into a new apartment on the 28th of last month. My wife is in the national guard and is currently in schooling for a new job for the military across the country from me. We get separation pay every 15 days which comes out to our exact rent. Plus the money we both make is tripled that. So we had more than enough to pay for rent and utilities and buy new furniture etc etc. for our first place together with no roommates. she isn't done until December and her car broke down and it was an 1100 dollar fix. She isn't considered active therefore she may not be getting a paycheck until whenever. So now it's two of us living off of just my paycheck plus we JUST signed a lease. This shutdown was poorly timed in our case (not that there would ever be a good time). Sorry to ramble on a bit I just need to vent. Also I'm on my iPhone so sorry if this is a giant block of ugly text. Also my sympathy to everyone else negatively affected by this whole mess.

Maybe they shouldn't have written the ACA with such an obvious and glaring exploit? Maybe some employers legitimately aren't able to afford it? Why the fuck would you even say this to me?

Your employer should have been in the business of providing your health care to begin with but that is ancient history. However to have businesses complain "business is hard!" goes against capitalism as well. Pick your poison where the solution doesn't seem to be "ignore it".

If it is really too expensive to run a business because workers are too expensive to hire then they need to act like a business and put their money where their mouth is. If they can only afford to pay a living wage and pay out health care to half of their hired employees then how ethical was it to hire so many?

@turambar said:

Followed. Felt like this for years.

Childish they can shut down the government like that, as far I'm concerned, republicans are devilspawn for denying goverment funded experimental medicine and therapy for terminally ill patients.

Well, I just discovered one unexpected consequence of government shutdown. My thesis research is suddenly greatly impeded. http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/pdf/main2006/2007474.pdf

http://drunkdialcongress.org/

If you're a federal employee and a Giant Bomb member....it's a safe assumption you're probably drunk right now. However, I cannot condone getting wasted on Southern Comfort and screaming at the bastards who closed the CDC and the NIH. And fucking WIC nutritional assistance for children.

Post more funny things about the shutdown! because it seems that Boehner is finally realizing that he's fucked and is now trying to work with Obummer or something. I don't know I'm tired

This is one of my favorite onion articles ever imo

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-republican-party-cannot-stand-by-and-let-obama,34074/?ref=auto

Boehner is currently making efforts to get a deal to temporarily raise the debt ceiling, as he has said repeatedly that he wouldn't let it lapse and risk a default. This is mostly independent of shutdown concerns. Both President Obama and Boehner have gotten a lot of pressure from all sides to resolve the debt ceiling, and it's very likely to get worked out, at least temporarily. Every level of interest group and international power is wary of the ramifications of not increasing the debt ceiling.

Though, to be honest, I somewhat hope that a deal is not worked out by October 17th, as President Obama may be forced to use his authority to raise the debt ceiling himself. The Constitution seems rather clear that the full faith and credit of the United States can't be called into question; so, all debts both local and abroad must be paid for regardless of Congressional approval.

Now, there's a possibility that could leave him open to being impeached if it is found that he doesn't actually have that power, but it is very likely that he does have it. And if he uses it, it could finally prevent the need for any future debt ceiling talks and other countries would not have to worry again about the possibility of a default.

@truthtellah: Whatever happened to the platinum bat-cave penny!

Votes on the Debt ceiling raises are ridiculous anyway. We are a reserve currency issuer. Precious few in congress or the voting public seem to understand the implication of that.

It's not like we have the same constraints a State or country like Greece has and yet people freak out about balanced federal budgets. For as much as people freak out about China dumping US Treasuries, they seem to utterly forget the fact that China has no virtually no choice but to continue buying them to keep the Yuan artificially devalued, otherwise their entire export economy will collapse. We're stuck with them and they are equally stuck with us.

That being said as much as I dislike this current congress I have no desire to see more power go to the executive branch.

We're definitely in a very different situation from one like Greece, but it is true that we do have issues if the debt to GDP gets too high. There continue to be debates on what ratio is best, but I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that the US government continues on an unsustainable path of debt development. While there isn't a need to undo the debt already obtained, it makes perfect sense to try to reign in the rate of debt growth and possibly even get near a balanced budget again.

The debt limit is an artificial fight which appears unnecessary. Yet, even the current White House and past Presidencies haven't believed that enough to really buck the trend of negotiating new debt ceiling increases. So, while I personally believe that it is an unnecessary fight based on the fact that we must pay for any debts agreed to, I must admit that I am in no way as informed as the President and his office on this matter. Thus, it is possible they are aware of some technicality I am not aware of and are acting accordingly. I kind of hope that they are pushed to have to clarify it at some point for future Presidencies, but I suppose I can understand why a precedence of treating it differently may lead them to continue to believe that Congress must, or at least should, give approval of a debt limit.

Everyone needs to see this:

Basically the federal government can't reopen now until the GOP says so.

As a non american i see this whole situation as a very tense season finale of the west wing.

Also more fox news vs Jon stewart videos are always welcome.

@k9:

Is there any practical reason for those huge flashcards other than theatrics?

Well, this entire situation was in fact a 2 part West Wing episode in season 5. Not a very good set of episodes mind you.

They all do it for the C-SPAN cameras. And yes, political theater too.

At this point, I'm just amazed by the sheer ineptitude and audacity of the Republican members of Congress that seem completely unaware of the mockery they're making of themselves and their party.

Its an echo chamber that effects both parties. They are convinced they are correct/wrong because they hear from each other they are absolutely correct/wrong from each other.

I'm more amazed at the ineptitude of almost EVERYONE in the federal government. It's not just Republicans. Democrats are fucking idiots also. There are very few that have a good standpoint, and even then, they falter a ton.

When it comes down to it, this is what happens when you allow your government to have too much power. They are too busy bickering like schoolchildren on the playground while real people in a real country that they really are supposed to work for are getting treated like shit.

What I wouldn't give to see about 30 million people marching onto the White House lawn and reclaiming their goddamn country. However, since the federal government controls public education, they've done as much as possible to make sure the kids are educated either poorly or wrongly. In turn, they look to idolize someone like Lil' Wayne more than, say, Thomas Edison.

Burn it all down, start over. That's the only honest solution at this point.

Reclaim the country from the people you explicitly chose to rule it?

@hailinel: @jakob187: Burning it all down isn't the solution.

It's not just the Republicans that are dumb, Hailinel. Clearly there is no one up there smart enough or strong enough to do anything but bicker. Obama sucks. Congress sucks. We need new people in office, preferably all of which have a year's experience in minimum wage jobs.

The Dems have a stronger leg to stand on so to speak. "Obamacare" maybe terribad but the way to revoke is not this way. Get control of Congress, which the GOP does not have. Get control of the White House, which the GOP does not have. Whine about it on the campaign trails. Do anything but this and this time with these bills and especially the debt ceiling.

To chose this fight now is just a way to get some political points for the people who are "the core" (for both parties no less) happy. It is a selfish game of chicken which rewards for reckless behavior instead of getting out of it.

Very true. Though, my comment was more geared toward the notion that the government shutdown was orchestrated as a negotiating tactic by congressional Republicans. Because clearly, the way to negotiate in the hopes of bringing down a new law that you don't like is to shut down the government and piss everyone that said shutdown affects off. As much as the Democrats have wrong with them (and they have plenty), they're not the ones that thought the tactic was a good idea.

bicker? What else can the democrats do? If they capitulated to the republicans at any point in this process, then they can do this every time they don't like a bill. Which is pretty much any bill that includes spending for things that aren't part of the military.

This shutdown is entirely the republicans fault. No Democrat out there is saying that defaulting is a good idea, but they are plenty of republicans who are saying such things (most of them in the suicide caucus) Plus the republican poll numbers about the shutdown have been dropping the longer the shutdown's gone on.

I seriously want to know why you think the democrats are dumb.

Term limits for congressmen and changes on how much money you can use for an election would really do wonders and get people who want to do their civic duty a chance at doing so.

Do you honestly see that happening? Don't you think that just about everyone would loathe any political party who did that? Do you think this might have a little more to do with the fact that this is a social program which pretty much eliminates the chances of it ever being stopped once it started?

Imagine a Republican bill to use taxpayer money to pay for low-cost guns for every household in America. And on top of that, the bill would fine any household in America who didn't own a gun. And now imagine that once that bill was passed, it would be almost impossible to repeal. And finally, imagine how hard Democrats would fight that bill.

Of course, it's insane to suggest that anyone be fined for not owning a gun, but it's not much more insane to suggest that people should be fined for not wanting to be forced to buy healthcare. Healthcare is a GOOD thing, but that doesn't mean it should be FORCED on anyone who doesn't have the money to pay for it, or doesn't WANT to pay for it. And this "affordable" care act is arguably anything but for some people.

If Democrats want free healthcare for everyone in America that's fine, but they need to "Dave it up" and find another way to come up with the money, not just continue to drive us further and further into debt. An actual universal healthcare program would be better than this "forcing you to buy healthcare" crap that so many people seem to be willing to accept, at least if we could at the same time find a way to stop spending ourselves towards financial ruin.

If only, you sweet, naive, idealistic movie.

While we're making crazy wishes, how about not allowing congress to opt-out of ANY social program that they stick the rest of us with?

Wait what? I don't understand this really

@galacticpunt said:

@ben_h said:

@crembaw said:

When does the revolution start?

October 18th.

http://thegreathappening.zxq.net/

Official website

http://now.msn.com/pokemon-x-and-y-video-game-shipments-delayed-for-military-personnel-by-government-shutdown

Truly, the most horrid of consequences.

A friend of mine was furloughed from her job at the NNSA due to the shutdown, and she and her husband are freaking out. He lost his job several months ago and still isn't working...they've been in the red and barely making it since then...now, all of a sudden there is zero income. They could lose their house over this.

:(

How long can it stay like this? Something has got to give.

B-b-but Obamacare is one of the worst laws in the history of America, nay, THE WORLD!

... It actually is when compared to socialized medicine. The whole law is batshit nuts. It bends over for just about everyone and still manages to bend the general public over a barrel.