Why Red Dead Redemption being the greatest game of all time isn't a consensus yet?

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#1 Edited by SocurToxanarosa (19 posts) -

I mean, is there any argument against it? Yeah, the title is a bit hyperbolic but i really believe it is the GOAT, here are some of the reasons:

- Best protagonist

- Epic storyline

- Most realistic open world

- Great writing, dialogue and characters overall

- Beautiful graphics (on 360 at least)

- Wonderful shooting and horse mechanics, what else do you need in a western?

- One of the best, if not the best ending of a video game

In resume, it's a masterpiece.

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#2 Edited by ArtisanBreads (8214 posts) -

Ion Storm releasing Deus Ex in 2000 is probably the biggest one off the top of my head (It is on my short list though and the best game from that gen).

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#3 Posted by OurSin_360 (4583 posts) -

It was ok at best IMO

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#4 Posted by Hunkulese (4079 posts) -

Well, you sure present a convincing argument for it.

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#5 Posted by Darth_Navster (773 posts) -

It's not Bully, that's a pretty good argument against it.

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#6 Posted by KingBonesaw (414 posts) -

The part where you play the video game in Red Dead Redemption is not very good.

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#7 Edited by Ezekiel (1780 posts) -

None of Rockstar's open world games are that good. They need better writers, a story structure that benefits from the open world, more ambiguous protagonists (because the gameplay is always at odds with how the story tries to paint the protagonist) and more responsive gameplay. I finished RDR once. I got bored trying to replay it, and when I went back to it maybe two years ago, I was disappointed with how blurry the PS3 version is. It's not even HD/720p. The game also has too much desert. I wanted more deeply wooded, hilly areas, like in McCabe & Mrs. Miller. I still liked it more than the mediocre GTA V, though.

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#8 Edited by SocurToxanarosa (19 posts) -

@artisanbreads said:

Ion Storm releasing Deus Ex in 2000 is probably the biggest one off the top of my head (It is on my short list though and the best game from that gen).

Yeah, was expecting people saying Zelda, Chrono Trigger, Mario or another kiddie game, but Deus Ex is actually a solid argument.

@oursin_360 said:

It was ok at best IMO

You must have high standards.

@hunkulese said:

Well, you sure present a convincing argument for it.

In this thread i presume you played the game.

@darth_navster said:

It's not Bully, that's a pretty good argument against it.

Don't see why, Bully is good but doesn't touch RDR's greatness.

@kingbonesaw said:

The part where you play the video game in Red Dead Redemption is not very good.

It's sublime, the shooting mechanics are on a whole other level to sponge bullet games like Uncharted.

@ezekiel said:

None of Rockstar's open world games are that good. They need better writers, a story structure that benefits from the open world, more ambiguous protagonists (because the gameplay is always at odds with how the story tries to paint the protagonist) and more responsive gameplay. I finished RDR once. I got bored trying to replay it, and when I went back to it maybe two years ago, I was disappointed with how blurry the PS3 version is. It's not even HD/720p. I still liked it more than the mediocre GTA V, though.

Writing in video games doesn't get better than RDR unless you're talking about CRPG's like Planescape.

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#9 Posted by VoshiNova (2272 posts) -
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#10 Posted by takayamasama (1453 posts) -

because it's a super boring game with easily forgettable characters and the setting is visually unappealing and annoying to traverse, nor is it enjoyable to actually play.

It's not a good game, Jeff is right.

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#11 Edited by burncoat (218 posts) -

It's not Mass Effect 2.

It's a fun game but it's not perfect. No PC release despite demand and ability makes it come up short. If amazing games like Valkyria Chronicles can be released years later on PC, RDR has no excuse.

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#12 Posted by fossas (371 posts) -

Because it's just pretty good.

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#13 Posted by Hunkulese (4079 posts) -

@burncoat said:

It's not Mass Effect 2.

It's a fun game but it's not perfect. No PC release despite demand and ability makes it come up short. If amazing games like Valkyria Chronicles can be released years later on PC, RDR has no excuse.

It's a good thing you could come in here to give your educated programmers' viewpoint.

RDR didn't get a PC port because it was a miracle that the game worked at all and it was barely held together when shipped. As much as people like to think that porting things to PC is just pressing the "port to PC" button, but it would have been a massive undertaking to make a decent port.

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#14 Posted by Milijango (163 posts) -

@socurtoxanarosa: Red Dead Redemption is in my top 10 all time, but I don't foresee this thread being especially productive until you or someone else tries to make an argument for it being that good.

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#15 Posted by csl316 (13986 posts) -

Super Mario World has those cool bongos when you jump on Yoshi.

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#16 Posted by alphasquid (133 posts) -

I like RDR but it's not even top 10 for my favorite games.

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#17 Posted by ArtisanBreads (8214 posts) -

@socurtoxanarosa: That game has it all to me and I have only appreciated it more over the years as more games slowly took a crack at that formula because Deus Ex still does it better in like every way, with more depth and choice and better design, which is seriously incredible.

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#18 Posted by InternetDotCom (3435 posts) -

If someone held a gun to my head and made me pick I would honestly just pick Tetris.

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#19 Posted by mcbisquick (12 posts) -

Pac-Man was pretty good.

I tried to play RDR a couple of times, but I never could get into it. Liked playing poker in it though.

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#20 Posted by BaneFireLord (3232 posts) -

I adore RDR but it's no Crusader Kings II, that's for damn sure.

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#21 Edited by BigBoss1911 (2843 posts) -

Always found this game incredibly overrated. Really didn't offer much challenge and a lot of boring story missions. They nailed the story and gameworld but the combat was so fucking easy it made the game boring.

Also it's not Metal Gear Solid 2.

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#22 Edited by BigSocrates (1443 posts) -

It's an excellent game but man...the story is completely incoherent in tone and wanders all over the place, there's too much autoaim (especially from horseback), a large portion of the game is just riding around empty spaces (Which I enjoyed, but doesn't have universal appeal) and those skinning animations...I have "What did you EAT?" emblazoned on my brain forever.

Jeff doesn't like the game (new guns > old guns) and I understand why, even though I did really enjoy it. I don't think "best game ever" is a very useful concept, but I think for a game to qualify it has to have near universal appeal, at least at the point when it launched. Something like Super Mario World or Tetris has a better claim. I mean in 1989 video games were much more niche then they are today but everyone's mom was borrowing their Gameboys to play some damned Tetris. Nobody's mom borrowed their Xbox 360 to play Red Dead Redemption unless they were already into games.

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#23 Posted by Justin258 (14431 posts) -

It ain't no Super Metroid.

Ok, serious answer - because it's got terrible pacing and the Mexico section of the game is just boring. I felt like I was being jerked around the entire time I was there, not making any progress in the story.

Even more serious answer - because subjectivity, yo, and because Chrono Trigger is fucking great and I played that only a few years ago.

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#24 Posted by L33T_HAXOR (862 posts) -

Cool game but it has that lame 'Houser humor' which drags it down a bit.

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#25 Edited by Fredchuckdave (10305 posts) -

Horizon is better than Red Dead and does most of the same things; just a lot better. Western films are irreproachably fantastic so having a video game version that's just kind of okay/pretty good isn't so stellar; but hard sci fi still has lots of opportunity for improvement and Horizon successfully tells an exceptional hard sci-fi story. Every other aspect isn't really debatable at all.

That said this forum is the land of Red Dead Haters (I like Red Dead a lot myself) and Persona Fanboys, so don't expect much with this kind of thread.

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#26 Posted by ShaggE (8422 posts) -

Because "meh". Admittedly, I just don't like Westerns, but I gave it the ol' college try with earnest desire to like it. Even bought the Undead Nightmare DLC hoping the horror theme would help. Nada. Just couldn't get into it.

Shame, because I can tell that it's a great game, and there are bits I really, really like. Just not my jam.

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#27 Posted by mozzle (223 posts) -

I don't like Red Dead.

If you had said Rush 2: Extreme Racing, or Mass Effect 2, or The Witness, than I would have agreed with you.

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#28 Posted by pyrodactyl (3699 posts) -

Red dead is a good video game but let's not get carried away. It's no mass effect 2 or Zelda: breath of the wild.

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#29 Edited by SocurToxanarosa (19 posts) -

@voshinova said:

@socurtoxanarosa: certainly not certain. But your icon/picture is rad.

Thanks, love me some Rust Cohle.

@takayamasama said:

because it's a super boring game with easily forgettable characters and the setting is visually unappealing and annoying to traverse, nor is it enjoyable to actually play.

It's not a good game, Jeff is right.

No Caption Provided

@burncoat said:

It's not Mass Effect 2.

It's a fun game but it's not perfect. No PC release despite demand and ability makes it come up short. If amazing games like Valkyria Chronicles can be released years later on PC, RDR has no excuse.

Mass Effect 2 is one of the most overrated games of all time, had no business in GOTY discussions. Linear cover shooter with bad writing, beginning of Bioware's decline.

@fossas said:

Because it's just pretty good.

The worst Rockstar game is what you'd call pretty good, it's happens that RDR is actually the best.

@milijango said:

@socurtoxanarosa: Red Dead Redemption is in my top 10 all time, but I don't foresee this thread being especially productive until you or someone else tries to make an argument for it being that good.

Yeah, you're right

@artisanbreads said:

@socurtoxanarosa: That game has it all to me and I have only appreciated it more over the years as more games slowly took a crack at that formula because Deus Ex still does it better in like every way, with more depth and choice and better design, which is seriously incredible.

While i still prefer RDR, Deux Ex is absolutely up there too.

.

@csl316 said:

Super Mario World has those cool bongos when you jump on Yoshi.

Can't really argue against this, rip RDR

@alphasquid said:

I like RDR but it's not even top 10 for my favorite games.

Which are?

@internetdotcom said:

If someone held a gun to my head and made me pick I would honestly just pick Tetris.

Might as well say pong too.

@mcbisquick said:

Pac-Man was pretty good.

I tried to play RDR a couple of times, but I never could get into it. Liked playing poker in it though.

Can't deny the beginning is a bit slow.

@banefirelord said:

I adore RDR but it's no Crusader Kings II, that's for damn sure.

For sure, RDR can only be RDR.

@bigboss1911 said:

Always found this game incredibly overrated. Really didn't offer much challenge and a lot of boring story missions. They nailed the story and gameworld but the combat was so fucking easy it made the game boring.

Also it's not Metal Gear Solid 2.

It's a game focused on story, not challenge, but it's not a cakewalk on the highest difficult. MGS2 has neat moments but a lot of cringeworthy bullshit, don't even like to remember Otacon's love story with his stepmother.

@bigsocrates said:

It's an excellent game but man...the story is completely incoherent in tone and wanders all over the place, there's too much autoaim (especially from horseback), a large portion of the game is just riding around empty spaces (Which I enjoyed, but doesn't have universal appeal) and those skinning animations...I have "What did you EAT?" emblazoned on my brain forever.

Jeff doesn't like the game (new guns > old guns) and I understand why, even though I did really enjoy it. I don't think "best game ever" is a very useful concept, but I think for a game to qualify it has to have near universal appeal, at least at the point when it launched. Something like Super Mario World or Tetris has a better claim. I mean in 1989 video games were much more niche then they are today but everyone's mom was borrowing their Gameboys to play some damned Tetris. Nobody's mom borrowed their Xbox 360 to play Red Dead Redemption unless they were already into games.

No, the games with universal appeal are the ones that cater to the lowest common denominator by definition. It's not only with games, this applies for any medium. That said, RDR has a 95/90 on metacritic, you don't get more praise than this in terms of numbers.

@justin258 said:

It ain't no Super Metroid.

Ok, serious answer - because it's got terrible pacing and the Mexico section of the game is just boring. I felt like I was being jerked around the entire time I was there, not making any progress in the story.

Even more serious answer - because subjectivity, yo, and because Chrono Trigger is fucking great and I played that only a few years ago.

Super Metroid is one of the GOAT's too, still the peak of it's genre. Chrono Trigger is just a silly dragon ball rpg.

@l33t_haxor said:

Cool game but it has that lame 'Houser humor' which drags it down a bit.

They nailed the humor in RDR, thought it was a bit off in GTA V tho.

@fredchuckdave said:

Horizon is better than Red Dead and does most of the same things; just a lot better. Western films are irreproachably fantastic so having a video game version that's just kind of okay/pretty good isn't so stellar; but hard sci fi still has lots of opportunity for improvement and Horizon successfully tells an exceptional hard sci-fi story. Every other aspect isn't really debatable at all.

That said this forum is the land of Red Dead Haters (I like Red Dead a lot myself) and Persona Fanboys, so don't expect much with this kind of thread. Didn't play Horizon yet but have a hard time thinking the world is as well realized as RDR or the writing and characters are nearly as good based on the videos and comments.

Didn't play Horizon yet but have a hard time thinking the world is as well realized as RDR or the writing and characters are nearly as good based on the videos and comments. It's certainly better from a technical point for obvious reasons.

@shagge said:

Because "meh". Admittedly, I just don't like Westerns, but I gave it the ol' college try with earnest desire to like it. Even bought the Undead Nightmare DLC hoping the horror theme would help. Nada. Just couldn't get into it.

Shame, because I can tell that it's a great game, and there are bits I really, really like. Just not my jam.

I understand your point, a pity.

@mozzle said:

I don't like Red Dead.

If you had said Rush 2: Extreme Racing, or Mass Effect 2, or The Witness, than I would have agreed with you.

No reason for doing this tho.

Red dead is a good video game but let's not get carried away. It's no mass effect 2 or Zelda: breath of the wild.

Didn't play BotW, and thank god it's not ME2, it's a masterpiece instead.

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#30 Posted by UpperDecker (424 posts) -

If Rockstar takes what it has done with Grand Theft Auto 5 and implements that into a new game as to what works, what doesn't, RDR2 will be the greatest game alive. Well, 2nd, behind HuniePop.

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#31 Edited by Teddie (1538 posts) -

I think it would take longer to list the games that I enjoyed more than RDR than it would to finish the Mexico chapter.

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#32 Edited by mems1224 (1706 posts) -

Decent game but it wouldn't even crack my top 100

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#33 Posted by jay_ray (1500 posts) -

@burncoat said:

It's not Mass Effect 2.

It's a fun game but it's not perfect. No PC release despite demand and ability makes it come up short. If amazing games like Valkyria Chronicles can be released years later on PC, RDR has no excuse.

Mass Effect 2 is one of the most overrated games of all time, had no business in GOTY discussions. Linear cover shooter with bad writing, beginning of Bioware's decline.

I think you just made Vinny the Hulk. #TeamVinny

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#34 Posted by VincentVendetta (426 posts) -

'Cause you're wrong.

Also consensus are bullshit.

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#35 Posted by pyrodactyl (3699 posts) -

@socurtoxanarosa: Bleh, zelda does the open world thing better and Mass Effect does the overall story better. RDR had a few great moments, a couple great characters and a great ending. It also dragged in spots and the side content was kind of tedious. It was a great game but not ground breaking or mind blowing. But you know, debating opinions is dumb anyway.

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#36 Posted by clagnaught (1310 posts) -
  1. It felt like "another Grand Theft Auto" game, in a world where Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City, San Andreas, Grand Theft Auto IV also exist.
  2. It felt like it lacked the scope of a game like Grand Theft Auto IV or San Andreas.
  3. Persona 4: Golden is the GOAT.
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#37 Posted by liquiddragon (1699 posts) -

Could I ask...what does your top 10 look like? I'm just trying to get a sense of your taste and maybe your age. I don't even think it'd make my top 10 open world games. I think it's solid but not even close to knocking my socks off.

Idk...I feel like I got past the whole my favorite, the greatest something something. Not that it's something ppl have to grow out of but I get different things from different games.

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#38 Posted by ajamafalous (13490 posts) -

The part where it controls like garbage

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#39 Edited by Justin258 (14431 posts) -

@socurtoxanarosa:

Super Metroid is one of the GOAT's too, still the peak of it's genre. Chrono Trigger is just a silly dragon ball rpg.

Akira Toriyama did the art for Chrono Trigger, sure. Apart from that, Chrono Trigger doesn't really share anything with Dragon Ball. Yes, I know that Magus is basically Vegeta, but then not really if you've ever thought about either character.

Doesn't hurt that I really like Dragon Ball. Not ironically, I genuinely enjoy that stuff. It's dumb and childish, but whatever. I am of the opinion that if you've lost the ability to enjoy something dumb and childish, then you've lost something of great value.

I should add that I do respect RDR. It did the whole "video game Western" thing better than pretty much anything else has, though that's at least partially because not much else actually has tried to be a video game spaghetti Western. It's got great atmosphere, it's downright gorgeous even when compared to games of today, the voice acting and dialog and characters are generally likable and interesting (except when you're reminded that oh right, I'm playing a Rockstar game). I can definitely see why someone would love this game. I have enjoyed games for many of the same reasons that people enjoy RDR, and ignored similar problems in other games. I love Skyrim, but that game has a mountain of problems.

It's just that RDR never struck a chord with me personally, so its problems really stand out. The horrible pacing in the Mexico section is the game's most glaring issue - the story goes nowhere for an entire third of the game and in a game where the story is the biggest draw, that's not a good thing. And the game drops most of the likable characters in that portion, so you're left with a bunch of assholes jerking Marston around from job to job in search of information that he never gets. Despite its looks and atmosphere, the open world gets pretty boring when you realize that it's actually rather devoid of interesting things to do. The gunplay isn't great, the lock on is too generous because Rockstar can't be arsed to code some decent analog stick aiming so you never get a satisfying headshot or anything like that.

So... yeah. Maybe there's a general consensus that Red Dead Redemption is fucking fantastic, that's fine, that's great, that's way better than people banging on about how amazing Uncharted 2 is. It's also a game that I would have forgotten about long ago if people weren't still bringing it up.

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#40 Edited by SocurToxanarosa (19 posts) -

@upperdecker said:

If Rockstar takes what it has done with Grand Theft Auto 5 and implements that into a new game as to what works, what doesn't, RDR2 will be the greatest game alive. Well, 2nd, behind HuniePop.

Amen bro

@pyrodactyl said:

@socurtoxanarosa: Bleh, zelda does the open world thing better and Mass Effect does the overall story better. RDR had a few great moments, a couple great characters and a great ending. It also dragged in spots and the side content was kind of tedious. It was a great game but not ground breaking or mind blowing. But you know, debating opinions is dumb anyway.

Mass Effect 2 barely had a story, bunch of daddy issues unrelated side quests and one final mission.

@clagnaught said:
  1. It felt like "another Grand Theft Auto" game, in a world where Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City, San Andreas, Grand Theft Auto IV also exist.
  2. It felt like it lacked the scope of a game like Grand Theft Auto IV or San Andreas.
  3. Persona 4: Golden is the GOAT.

It's much better than any GTA game, they are all great but flawed games. Love Persona 4, prefer Persona 3, but no, not even close.

@liquiddragon said:

Could I ask...what does your top 10 look like? I'm just trying to get a sense of your taste and maybe your age. I don't even think it'd make my top 10 open world games. I think it's solid but not even close to knocking my socks off.

Idk...I feel like I got past the whole my favorite, the greatest something something. Not that it's something ppl have to grow out of but I get different things from different games.

Tier 1 - Red Dead Redemption

Tier 2 - Dark and Demon's Souls, Super Metroid, Bloodborne and The Witcher 3.

Tier 3 - Metal Gear Solid, The Last of Us, Portal 2 and Fallout New Vegas.

Honorable mention: Bayonetta.

@justin258 said:

@socurtoxanarosa:

Super Metroid is one of the GOAT's too, still the peak of it's genre. Chrono Trigger is just a silly dragon ball rpg.

Akira Toriyama did the art for Chrono Trigger, sure. Apart from that, Chrono Trigger doesn't really share anything with Dragon Ball. Yes, I know that Magus is basically Vegeta, but then not really if you've ever thought about either character.

Doesn't hurt that I really like Dragon Ball. Not ironically, I genuinely enjoy that stuff. It's dumb and childish, but whatever. I am of the opinion that if you've lost the ability to enjoy something dumb and childish, then you've lost something of great value.

I should add that I do respect RDR. It did the whole "video game Western" thing better than pretty much anything else has, though that's at least partially because not much else actually has tried to be a video game spaghetti Western. It's got great atmosphere, it's downright gorgeous even when compared to games of today, the voice acting and dialog and characters are generally likable and interesting (except when you're reminded that oh right, I'm playing a Rockstar game). I can definitely see why someone would love this game. I have enjoyed games for many of the same reasons that people enjoy RDR, and ignored similar problems in other games. I love Skyrim, but that game has a mountain of problems.

It's just that RDR never struck a chord with me personally, so its problems really stand out to me. The horrible pacing in the Mexico section is the game's biggest, most glaring problem - the story goes nowhere for an entire third of the game and in a game where the story is the biggest draw, that's not a good thing. And the game drops most of the likable characters in that area of the game, so you're left with a bunch of assholes jerking Marston around from job to job in search of information that he never gets. Despite its looks and atmosphere, the open world gets pretty boring when you realize that it's actually rather devoid of interesting things to do. The gunplay isn't great, the lock on is too generous because Rockstar can't be arsed to code some decent analog stick aiming so you never get a satisfying headshot or anything like that.

So... yeah. Maybe there's a general consensus that Red Dead Redemption is fucking fantastic, that's fine, that's great, that's way better than people banging on about how amazing Uncharted 2 is. It's also a game that I would have forgotten about long ago if people weren't still bringing it up.

Akira Toriyama did only the art, but he could have written the game as well because it's just your regular shounen with all it's tropes in form of a highly polished jrpg. I liked Dragon Ball as a child too, i even watch some of it's highlights on youtube sometimes, but i know that i like it because of nostalgia, as you said, it's dumb and childish, so, i try to separate this kind of thing when i need to be critical.

And it's fine RDR not clicking with you, certain works require an specific "background" to be fully appreciated, regardless of their quality. Hate Uncharted btw.

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#41 Posted by mozzle (223 posts) -

My biggest problem with Red Dead, is why is the main character doing all of these stupid things for stupid people, that have nothing to do with what he is trying to accomplish, and actively goes against his supposed new moral code.

In that regard, he completely fails as being a compelling protagonist. It's not that he's flawed, which would have been interesting, it's that he doesn't make any sort of sense out side of, how do we make this game really long?

Rant over. If you love it, cool. A lot of people do! And I'd rather someone love a game than not. For me Mass Effect 2 is where it's at. Flaws and all. I mean it probably has more flaws than Red Dead, but it also has some of the best moments, most interesting characters, and the most incredible sense of place, that no other game has given me in the same way.

Online
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#42 Posted by Shindig (4067 posts) -

If you took Red Dead Redemption out of history altogether, you'd lose nothing. If you did the same to Burnout Paradise, you'd lose an entire framework.

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#43 Posted by DookieRope (304 posts) -

Guys, we've been over this time and time again. Captain Skyhawk for the NES is the GOAT of videogames. Please close and lock this thread.

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#44 Posted by FrodoBaggins (896 posts) -

Because it's not EverQuest. See, the answer really wasn't that complex.

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#45 Posted by Darson (530 posts) -

Because Jeff refuses to back down?

Honestly, if there wasn't a sequel on its way (releasing between this year and never) I would still be diving back into that game for another run. But who really cares? My opinion nor anyone else's in this thread shouldn't have an affect on your enjoyment of it.

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#47 Posted by YummyTreeSap (1040 posts) -

red dead revolver was better

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#48 Posted by Ungodly (192 posts) -

I mean you have your opinion, and I have mine. Liked RDR at the time, but outside of the shoot out for John, everything else is forgettable... to me. I understand you think it's perfect, but I spent more time with Mass Effect 2, and prefer it over RDR. I also felt at the time, and even more so now, that playing the game wasn't that great.

To each their own though, man. Also what's the point of saying anything is the greatest anything? Red Dead was hugely successful. Doesn't that validate your opinion enough to just let it ride off into the sunset?

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#49 Posted by AdequatelyPrepared (2503 posts) -

Because Killer7, Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space 2 are all games that exist and are better.

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#50 Posted by BoOzak (1768 posts) -

People sure do like their westerns. If you're able to convince yourself that Red Dead Redemption played well then I dont know what to tell you.

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