Something went wrong. Try again later

Giant Bomb News

278 Comments

The Guns of Navarro: Reversal of Fortune

Microsoft's changes to its Xbox One DRM policies were undoubtedly shocking. Alex sifts through the ashes to see what it all means.

Corporations are notoriously slow creatures. That slowness generally stands in direct proportion to the size of the corporation itself. The bigger the beast, the more people, bureaucratic processes, and legal wrangling every single decision must be pumped through before any kind of minute decision can be made. It's why I never expect much when fan outcry arises toward the various monolithic companies that make up the video game industry. Especially in the case of a behemoth like Microsoft, whose Xbox One DRM policies became the subject of much derision over the course of the last month. Here was a company that was laying out its carefully built plans for a new console, its first in eight years. This is unquestionably a huge undertaking, involving years of research and development, and considerable capital. Yes, people reacted poorly when Microsoft announced that it would not allow traditional used game sales on the system, and would require online check-ins every 24 hours in order to even play offline games. Seemingly, in its mind, the potential riling up of DRM-weary consumers was worth the risk given the potential long-term benefits of the tech.

Patrick's Xbox One story as it appeared on BBC's Click (thanks to Rowan Pellegrin for sending this over!)
Patrick's Xbox One story as it appeared on BBC's Click (thanks to Rowan Pellegrin for sending this over!)

Until, of course, it very suddenly wasn't.

To say Microsoft's reversal of those aforementioned policies this week was a surprise would be a gross understatement. Nobody saw this coming. Not the developers we talked to at E3, not the various press people commenting following the show, not anyone. Even if you believed Microsoft could be worn down at some point in the future, I hardly expect you could have foreseen them making such a jarring about-face less than a week after E3's conclusion.

This is not how companies typically react to fan or media outcry. Usually there's a lot more quiet hand-wringing as they attempt to adjust messaging, or even just flat indifference to the whole thing. Which isn't to say game companies never listen to fans, but this kind of complete reversal on such a seemingly fundamental policy that had just been announced is practically unheard of. All that research, all that preparation, all that money, essentially tossed off in the hopes that fan response would turn back in Microsoft's favor.

Yes, Microsoft has been presenting these changes as very much the result of "fan feedback," that nebulous term that could refer to the myriad angry message board and comment thread postings, the consistent feed of backlash from the games press, or even less public factors, like pre-order sales. For my money, I tend to lean on that latter one. In my experience, nothing sets a game company's ass aflame quite like soft pre-order numbers. We don't know exactly what pre-orders look like for either the Xbox One or the PlayStation 4, but there's enough anecdotal info going around to suggest that Sony's E3 press conference, with its promises of no new restrictive DRM policies and a $100 cheaper price tag, brought the company terrific early results.

If you're Microsoft, I have a hard time believing you scrap such a noteworthy chunk of your system's architecture just because a lot of angry people on the Internet were angry. Companies are trained to learn that these kinds of complaints are typically more indicative of a vocal minority. But actual, tangible sales? That's another story entirely. If people aren't pre-ordering your console to the degree that you're expecting, that's when you would typically see a company leap into action to affect change. A leap this high and this fast tells me that something was very seriously wrong in Microsoft land, and that this was not just some play to appease an upset audience, but a desperate attempt at total course correction in the face of what I can only assume they foresaw as an impending doom scenario.

Even more intriguing than Microsoft's immediate about-face was the reaction that followed. Unsurprisingly, those who had spent the last 20-some-odd days deriding the Xbox One's DRM system were generally quite thrilled. But almost immediately after the announcement hit, another side of the argument piped up. While there had been some vocal supporters of Microsoft's new DRM--typically, those who believed that such a system would be the impetus to put consoles more on par with Steam's currently (mostly) beloved digital library system--their voices were largely drowned out by people who weren't into these restrictions one bit.

Former Epic Games honcho Cliff Bleszinski has been one of the more vocal opponents of Microsoft's reversal.
Former Epic Games honcho Cliff Bleszinski has been one of the more vocal opponents of Microsoft's reversal.

So now, this previously shouted down group had reason to pipe up even louder, as the opposition quieted down. They were most certainly being fueled by numerous developers, who came out in dismay over Microsoft changing a policy that they believed would save the industry from eventual collapse. A predominantly dire attitude was taken on by prominent figures like Cliff Bleszinski and Lee Perry as they spoke of doomsaying numbers that they proclaimed showed how bad things have gotten in top-tier game development. The thing is, they're not wrong. The current model is deeply in the red, with not a lot of return on investment for increasingly bloated game budgets. That bloat, as most developers will tell you, is the direct result of the staffing and resource requirements inherent to crafting "top quality experiences" in the kinds of timetables major publishers require. Games that sell millions of copies are often still "disappointments," because they're not hitting the kinds of targets the publishers had banked on. Whether those expectations were ever realistic to begin with is, sadly, not often up for debate, since usefully precise data on game budgets and sales numbers is still generally kept away from the public view.

But as Chris Kohler notes in a piece written Friday, this isn't just an either/or argument. It's not literally: "We get rid of used games, or top quality video games go away." Nothing so binary has ever existed in this business. Companies have failed and succeeded in widely varying forms over the course of the last few decades, and how the industry might reshape itself in the face of unsustainable costs is very much an unknown. Cliff seems convinced that not having these new digital licensing tools would guarantee the status quo of tons of DLC, microtransactions, and the return of online passes, inevitably leading to some kind of eventual cataclysm. I don't think we really know that to be our only possible future yet.

Removed from the apocalyptic foretellings, some people were just mad because the various sharing features built into the system sounded pretty great. The family sharing feature, which would have allowed you to share any game you owned with up to 10 family members on any Xbox One, sounded really ideal. While some doubt over the veracity of that feature's description popped up later last week, those claims--that the system would only allow family members to play shared games for up to 60 minutes at a time, before being told to buy the full product--seem to have been debunked by various Microsoft men via Twitter.

And then there was the ability to access your entire games library digitally, even if you bought a physical copy originally. Losing that one does suck, no question, but if someone really is invested in the current vision of an all-digital future, Microsoft says they'll still have every game published on the system available day-and-date digitally alongside the disc-based copies. Access might not be quite as broad as it was before, but it still allows for a notable upgrade over Microsoft's current system, where disc-based games tend to lead their digital versions by quite a margin.

So certainly, there is reason to lament some of the losses in the wake of Microsoft's change, but such lament comes with a level of faith that a lot of consumers evidently weren't willing to put in Microsoft's $500 machine as it previously stood. Now, sans these restrictions, it seems that Xbox One preorders have risen on various retail sites. Granted, the PS4 still had a strong week-long lead of positive press driving it into Amazon's top sellers list, and with many of those pre-orders put in, we're now seeing those who held out on Microsoft meeting its about face in kind. Again, actual numbers for these sorts of things we won't know about until somebody decides a sufficient benchmark has been reached to put out a glowing press release, but it does seem like Microsoft has gotten a shot in the arm here, if nothing else.

Did Microsoft's about-face change your mind when it came to pre-ordering an Xbox One? I mean, I'd already pre-ordered one, but if I didn't need one for my job, I'd have waited.
Did Microsoft's about-face change your mind when it came to pre-ordering an Xbox One? I mean, I'd already pre-ordered one, but if I didn't need one for my job, I'd have waited.

It's also really only put-off what may still yet be an inevitable all-digital future, as the New York Times noted this weekend. Many seem to think that physical media isn't really long for this world. Even if Microsoft is removing its DRM restrictions on the Xbox One, there's no reason to believe they couldn't just implement that stuff again whenever it feels the market dictates. We are most certainly progressing toward a heavily digital games market, as indie games and day-one digital releases have become increasingly normal. It's been a slow push, and not everyone is there yet. The bandwidth isn't there for everyone, nor is the affordable storage space. But if you look at where we are now compared with, say, five years ago, the digital market has expanded by leaps and bounds. In another few years, the used market may begin to dry up all by its lonesome, with no forceful nudging from console makers. All those features Microsoft was talking about could easily be plugged back in, and at a time when the market is actually prepared for this kind of shift. And isn't that how it ought to be, anyway? The consumers dictating the fate of the used games market, instead of the game companies dictating it to us?

Whether or not this gambit pays off in the end, on some level, you just have to admire the moxie of it all. Sony drilled Microsoft at E3, and managed to rally the core gaming audience behind them in a way that a single console maker hasn't been able to in ages. Where Microsoft looked out-of-touch and indifferent, Sony looked self-aware and clever, and clearly were able to parlay that into strong early numbers. In making this change so abruptly, Microsoft may have dimmed Sony's E3 afterglow a bit, and brought itself back into the race. We have ourselves a ballgame again folks, and when two companies compete with this kind of fierceness, it's we, the consumers, who most often win in the end.

Alex Navarro on Google+

278 Comments

Avatar image for lexus2jz
Lexus2jz

93

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@deek069 said:

If Microsoft (or Sony for that matter) want the future to be all digital there is one sure way of doing it; make the digital version of the games a little cheaper.

I can see no reason why both physical and digital are the same price as surely they are saving a vast amount on production and distribution costs, and cutting out the middle men, not to mention the (apparent) gain from removing the ability to re-sell the game.

Digital downloads are cheaper for me. With gas hitting 4.19 a gallon and living about 30 miles away from a Gamestop, Wal-Mart, ect.... buying digital saves me about $20.00.

Avatar image for extomar
EXTomar

5047

Forum Posts

4

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By EXTomar

Here is a strange thought: Maybe the whole "AAA Game" is not sustainable let alone a viable market? Or at least not viable at the current pace of several per year culminating cramming 3 or 4 at the end.

Instead of trying to squeeze the last bit of cash out of buyers, maybe producers should look into creating a different style of game? Naw according to those guys we aren't being good little consumers and buying everything they release.

Avatar image for bonorbitz
BonOrbitz

2652

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

@darkest4 said:

You lost by quoting Cliff, can we please stop giving this guy attention? I can't believe people really buy into this notion that used games are killing video games. Used games have been around from the start and the industry has grown tons. Many developers are doing just fine, those that struggle are struggling due to their own fault, stop letting them convince you otherwise. Every other physical product in the world has a used market. Blaming used games is just them not wanting to take responsibility for their own mistakes. Those companies are paying their execs too much, focusing too much on costly things like EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE instead of quality story telling, creating shitty games that no one wants, not managing their money correctly and so on... and then blaming everything on used games. It's just a cop out, stop letting them convince you it's true.

Stop listening to guys like Cliff talk about how they desperately need more money and used games are killing them.. the guy is just another greedy millionaire who want to make more millions with minimal effort pumping out lazy sequels. Maybe developers should start by cutting the pay checks of guys like Cliff instead of blaming everyone else?

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/cliff-bleszinski-net-worth/

Boo hoo Cliffy, making 15million in this "dying industry" being pillaged by "used games", you only have hundreds of times more money than your average customer poor guy I feel so bad for you. Give me a break.

Overall, I've heard more convincing arguments that the used games industry is not hurting the industry.

I feel exactly the same about needing to cut costs, especially before you get backed into a corner and have to do it via massive layoffs. I don't think "explosions everywhere" is costlier than quality storytelling, and both are pretty important in the current and next-gen landscape, so things need to be cut elsewhere.

What's always astounded me are some of these ridiculous marketing pieces sent out to journalists, hiring attractive cosplayers/models, or hosting exuberant press junkets to promote a title. You really need to send out that life sized soldier statue from your game or invite journalists to some foreign country to test drive expensive cars from your racing game? All of that seems so over-the-top and expensive, and makes me wonder if there can be a more frugal way for publishers to get our their marketing message and exposure. Also, in a manner that's less embarrassing then cosplay zombies or a chainsaw wielding cheerleader in your booth. I'm not saying every game does this, but my perception is that a lot of it is being done unnecessarily, and these large marketing budgets are cutting into profitability.

Avatar image for likeassur
LikeaSsur

1625

Forum Posts

517

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By LikeaSsur

@kristov_romanov: I was more lamenting the fact that not everyone will be happy, but sure, take my comment to its literal extreme.

Avatar image for herdi3
herdi3

20

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By herdi3

A good read. I initially held off on pre-ordering X1 and went PS4 but since the reversal I've now pre-ordered both. Not saying I will pay for them both at launch (maybe eventually) but it's nice to have the option closer to the time, just gonna see how this plays out for a bit then make the jump.

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By mrfluke

what i find astounding that people missed the gametrailers interviews that keighley did with the top guys of publishers, where they flat out said that used games are good for the industry,

whether you want to believe what they say up front. is up to you all.

Avatar image for rvone
RVonE

5027

Forum Posts

8740

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

@humanity said:

@mrpandaman said:
@sephirm87 said:

@likeassur said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

Goodness gracious. They really can't win, can they?

They had DRM, and people were unhappy. They took away the DRM, and people are unhappy because they did what the people wanted. Misery is never in short amount on the internet.

don't get me wrong, I am more upset with the gaming community that I am with Microsoft. Microsoft is trying to do what they think will be best for themselves. They had no idea that they were trying to sell a system to such a backwards audience.

Or they had no idea that a large portion of their audience was not ready for this type of change and the consumer didn't feel like what they got in return was equal to what they lost. There is also nothing probably stopping them from re-implementing the policies once the consumers are ready to embrace. A lot of the problem is bad messaging on MS' part for not explaining the benefits of their system. If the community has to figure out what the benefits are themselves, then it is all MS' fault that this entire thing happened. They had chances to elaborate and address and enlighten people, but they never did.

The best worst answer they gave was from Don Mattrick, for those who don't have an internet connection, there's the 360. What the hell kind of answer is that? It should have been here's the benefits of getting an internet connection for the Xbox One.. blah blah blah. But that never happened directly from MS spokespeople. It only happened from those outside.

Also you also do know that people did enjoy games before everyone had an internet connection... right?

People also enjoyed playing board games before those went out of style. While I'm not going to be as aggressive in saying "keep up or shove off" I do sincerely believe that every leap in technology has growing pains. You honestly can't be making a console with the "future" market in mind by constantly thinking of the lowest common denominator. I'm sure Netflix wasn't thinking about all the people with bad internet when they were developing their company - the people who had the means to enjoy online streaming took advantage while others just went to Blockbuster. At the end of the day Netflix is still here and rental places are almost completely gone.

Netflix is an interesting example. Here in one of Europe's most well-connected countries I'm sitting on a 100/100MBps connection with Netflix entirely unavailable and no good alternatives.

Anyway, I don't understand the argument that Microsoft is catering to people living in the past. One of the problem's with the proposed DRM model is that it is equally applied in places where it makes no sense at all: single-player games. Why would a single-player game require an always-on connection? It's just nonsensical. Or for that matter, why would Kinect be required to be connected to the console when I'm not playing any Kinect games?

Avatar image for nicked
Nicked

259

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By Nicked

To some degree, I don't think Sony's digital services get enough credit. PS+ gets you deep discounts and free games for 50 bucks. It's a really amazing deal that encourages digital purchases and I feel like nobody is talking about it.

I feel exactly the same about needing to cut costs, especially before you get backed into a corner and have to do it via massive layoffs. I don't think "explosions everywhere" is costlier than quality storytelling, and both are pretty important in the current and next-gen landscape, so things need to be cut elsewhere.

What's always astounded me are some of these ridiculous marketing pieces sent out to journalists, hiring attractive cosplayers/models, or hosting exuberant press junkets to promote a title. You really need to send out that life sized soldier statue from your game or invite journalists to some foreign country to test drive expensive cars from your racing game? All of that seems so over-the-top and expensive, and makes me wonder if there can be a more frugal way for publishers to get our their marketing message and exposure. Also, in a manner that's less embarrassing then cosplay zombies or a chainsaw wielding cheerleader in your booth. I'm not saying every game does this, but my perception is that a lot of it is being done unnecessarily, and these large marketing budgets are cutting into profitability.

Post E3, part of the reason I have a hard time sympathizing with some AAA devs/pubs is that they're clearly putting a lot of money into iPad apps. I don't think anyone really cares about helping a friend in multiplayer while on the bus, or even from the couch. It's a gimmick that is probably really expensive. Obviously I'm making some assumptions about budgeting, but there have got to be ways to lower production costs rather than raise the price of games.

Avatar image for nardak
Nardak

947

Forum Posts

29

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

Edited By Nardak

One of the problems with publishers at the moment is that they are all chasing those Call of Duty kinds of sales.

That model is simply impossible to sustain in the long run. Publishers should try to accept that only a select few games can go past 4 or 5 million copies in sales.

I think that publishers themselves are mostly to blame for this current situation. Activisions CEO Bobby Kotick is one of the biggest culprits of this kind of thinking in the games industry. Instead of having a variety of games on offer we have a very narrow selection of games (most of which are sequels) in development.

This model has proved very good for shareholders but it does mean that game business is less and less willing to take risks and is trying to avoid risks by developing one sequel after another.

Avatar image for posh
posh

682

Forum Posts

879

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

Edited By posh

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

Avatar image for darkbeatdk
DarkbeatDK

2503

Forum Posts

330

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 22

I think that the people who are defending Microsoft's previous DRM policy is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

There is ways to make things more beneficial for everyone. What Microsoft did is not the answer, but making a push for digital with things like the equivalent of Steam keys offered at retail and better prices, would eventually be the thing to kill off used games.

I mean, who buys a used PC games these days??

Just do that!

For fucks sake, do I have to run Microsoft myself or what??

Avatar image for stimpack
Stimpack

1012

Forum Posts

10

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

@scrawnto said:

@anund said:

@alwaysbebombing said:

@tehbull: Why is it that people hate windows 8? Once you click on desktop, it's pretty much the same thing.

And from my Information Systems standpoint; it functions almost identically to Windows 7.

Because change sucks, right? No, seriously, I have no issues with Windows 8. My computer starts in 20 seconds, and 5 of those consist of me entering my password. The screen takes longer to start than the computer. All metro is is a reskin of the start menu. Sure, running apps in Metro mode is insanity on a desktop, but there is no need to do that.

I'm with the two of you there. I use Win7 at work and Win8 at home. The primary difference between the two is that I have a slightly nicer task manager at home.

Windows 8 is just fine. The formatting without removing the OS feature is great. Also if you have issues with booting or whatever else, it can fix itself without needing the install disk. It's compatible with just about everything. There are only two issues, needing to enable driver signatures, and... well, honestly, I don't know about the start menu. I have a "my computer" button on my taskbar, I use the metro as an "all programs", and I right-click it to bring up the control panel. Plus the faster booting and task manager. I thought 8 was just fine when it was first introduced, and I've never understood the blind hatred.

Also Xbox stuff. I have my doubts that Microsoft didn't build all of this with a killswitch in mind. I don't think they did anything too shocking. I do think it makes them look like they don't know what they're doing. I also feel like Microsoft would need to change 1000 other things and fire the people in charge who have made all of these shitty decisions throughout the years before I would be on board. Do that, and then I'll be surprised.

Avatar image for minipato
MiniPato

3030

Forum Posts

3

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

Or they can buy a PS4. You know, the system that caters to both people who do and don't have good internet connection. Those who don't can play games the same way they used to. Those who do can take advantage of play-as-you-download, game streaming, and live streaming your game as well as all that netflix, tv stuff. Go ahead and try to force progress on people who can't afford it, don't have access to it, and can't buy it even if they wanted it without moving. Let's see how well it goes. High speed internet isn't as prevalent as you think. Maybe you should go out and visit the world. Or since you boast high speed internet, do some fucking research. Progress is fine, but you can't implement it if the technology is not readily available. When you're talking about a commercial product, you have to take that into account if you want it to be successful. Or you can treat your customers as backwards neanderthals and pray to the devil that your product outsells your competition. I'm sure that will work.

This whole situation just reminds me of Deus Ex Human Revolution. People are trying to force augmentation on the world when most people can't afford it. Like Alex said, consumers should dictate the future of used games, not the companies. When downloading games becomes as fast and as instant as netflix, people will be ready to embrace the digital future. And when enough people can take advantage of that, then an infrastructure like the original Xbox One could work. But games as they are today are big, take time to download, take time to install, take up a lot of space (Last of Us is 54 gigs) and are more complex to stream than movies.

Avatar image for schrodngrsfalco
SchrodngrsFalco

4618

Forum Posts

454

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 7

*After reading last sentence*

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Avatar image for draxyle
Draxyle

2021

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Oh, Cliffy B. I think the AAA market has much bigger problems if used games are sinking it.

I don't even care about the used game market, I only buy used when the title is out of print (an increasingly diminished problem thanks to digital downloads and PC emulation in general). But the notion that these big budget developers would suddenly drop the DLC and bad business practices with the destruction of the used market is laughable.

Either way, it's good to see the playing field leveled between MS and Sony. I'm still much more of a believer in Sony's ability to provide what I want out of gaming, but I definitely don't want them to get too much of a lead. The big two need to be fighting for our hearts to the bitter end.

Avatar image for viking_funeral
viking_funeral

2881

Forum Posts

57

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

I still think Sony is going to benefit with early adapters because of their early stance, not to mention the cheaper price, no Kinect requirement, and possibly stronger hardware. Whether the early adapters will help in the long haul is another story, as I work with a few people who were willing to sit out this gen for a while instead of getting a PS4 (as they didn't want a 24h-DRM machine). So Xbone will probably still do well enough at this point, and have a fitting chance with their exclusives and such.

However, how many of those exclusives were based on the promise of a 24h-DRM? One wonders.

And, I'm sorry 24h-DRM defenders, that is nothing like Steam. This is starting to feel like an election year talking point, where if you keep saying something over and over again, people will treat it as truth. Most Steam games can be played offline indefinitely once installed and run once. That is not even close to a 24h check in.

Avatar image for gaspower
GaspoweR

4904

Forum Posts

272

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

Edited By GaspoweR

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

Avatar image for starvingpoet
StarvingPoet

14

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@extomar - You've hit the nail on the head. The bloat of the 'AAA's is simply unsustainable. You can't have 1000 sets of hands touching a single entertainment product and really expect to maintain your profitability over time. When we start getting into headcounts that these publishers are sporting, it just gets stupid.


Avatar image for deactivated-6620058d9fa01
deactivated-6620058d9fa01

484

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

I'm really surprised about there being anybody on Microsoft's side on this. Microsoft barely revealed anything about their online future, but there are people who were ready to jump in with Microsoft. And instead of revealing anything Microsoft decided to be spineless. The limits on the 10 person sharing could be totally true, but it's easy for Microsoft to deny such a thing when we can't possibly know about it.

But let's just take everything at face value because that totally works when you're dealing in business.

Avatar image for zzombie13
ZZoMBiE13

466

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 3

Edited By ZZoMBiE13

@nardak said:

One of the problems with publishers at the moment is that they are all chasing those Call of Duty kinds of sales.

That model is simply impossible to sustain in the long run. Publishers should try to accept that only a select few games can go past 4 or 5 million copies in sales.

I think that publishers themselves are mostly to blame for this current situation. Activisions CEO Bobby Kotick is one of the biggest culprits of this kind of thinking in the games industry. Instead of having a variety of games on offer we have a very narrow selection of games (most of which are sequels) in development.

This model has proved very good for shareholders but it does mean that game business is less and less willing to take risks and is trying to avoid risks by developing one sequel after another.

OK first off let me say that this is not wrong. I've been misunderstood a few times over the past week, so just because I'm quoting you doesn't mean I disagree. This is more an addendum, not a contradiction.

OK?

With that out of the way, there is another piece to the puzzle you mentioned here. The publishers are pushing very similar games, that much is true. But fans have to take some of the responsibility. When a new or interesting game comes out that isn't part of a known IP, it's difficult to get traction. It's an unknown property sitting on the shelves with literally hundreds of games that are known quantities just by the names on their boxes.

I think not of myself here, but of a younger gamer who isn't as financially well off as myself. A less established gamer. Should that person pick up a new shooter or should they stick with the one they already know they will enjoy? It's certainly not wrong to stick with a CoD or a Battlefield or a Halo when you know you're going to enjoy that experience and you may not be able to buy another game for a few months.

I see how scary it can be for developers to pour their heart and soul into something only to have it sit on the shelves while CoD 97 flies out the door for being plastic and samey.

Not saying this behavior is proper or right, but I understand it. Personally, I try to support the smaller games when I can. But even I didn't pick up Catherine (just to site one example) on launch day. I eventually got it (new copy, not used) and enjoyed it, but it was a crowded market for a weird quirky platform/puzzler to penetrate.

I'd also add a third reason we see so many sequels though. Gaming, at it's core, is perfect for sequential story telling. Like comics, we see narratives that are strongly driven by a main character who we, as the primary participant of these experiences, come to know and love in very intimate ways. The nature of gaming lends itself well to investing in the characters on the screen because we identify with them, especially when we get to make a character or have agency over their decisions like in Mass Effect. It's not a Sheppard doing a thing, it's MY Sheppard enacting MY will into this virtual world. That's powerful. And it's one of many reasons that the sequential nature of gaming is so pervasive.

Avatar image for courage_wolf
courage_wolf

256

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

My question in all this is when is the other shoe going to fall and the internet freaks out that Sony is charging for PS4 online multiplayer? Without Microsoft DRM policies in play people would have jumped down Sony's throat for that, instead Jack Tretton got applause when he announced it and people seemed to ignore it. Is Sony ready for the internet hate machine to come after them when the PS4 launches and people realize they now have to pay for online multiplayer?

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By mrfluke

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

Avatar image for iamjohn
iamjohn

6297

Forum Posts

13905

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

My question in all this is when is the other shoe going to fall and the internet freaks out that Sony is charging for PS4 online multiplayer?

It already happened, and the majority of us decided we don't care.

Avatar image for donpixel
DonPixel

2867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By DonPixel

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

People that want and can afford to live in the "Future" are already living in the future. Buy yourself a nice PC and download steam.

Also don't misunderstand the outrage boy, people were pissed about draconian restrictions not about cloud services and digital library... they are not mutually exclusive as steam has probe already.

Avatar image for deusoma
Deusoma

3224

Forum Posts

128695

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 4

There's a lot of surprisingly intelligent, insightful discussion going back and forth in the comments (as well as a certain amount of less surprising name-calling), but while that's a welcome sight on the Internet, I don't really have anything that thought-out to add. For me, it's a fairly simple situation. The Xbone may not be morally negative anymore, but it's still ridiculously expensive, so I'm going to wait until it isn't ridiculously expensive before I even start thinking about whether or not I really need to own one. Whether or not it would have been better or worse with these nebulous features and DRM programs in place is irrelevant at this point.

Avatar image for humanity
Humanity

21858

Forum Posts

5738

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 40

User Lists: 16

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

Avatar image for xseanzx
xSeanZx

275

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@deusoma said:

There's a lot of surprisingly intelligent, insightful discussion going back and forth in the comments (as well as a certain amount of less surprising name-calling), but while that's a welcome sight on the Internet, I don't really have anything that thought-out to add. For me, it's a fairly simple situation. The Xbone may not be morally negative anymore, but it's still ridiculously expensive, so I'm going to wait until it isn't ridiculously expensive before I even start thinking about whether or not I really need to own one. Whether or not it would have been better or worse with these nebulous features and DRM programs in place is irrelevant at this point.

I am taking this argument as a reason why you are getting a PS4? At 400 dollars, a 100 dollar more difference is hardly "ridiculously" expensive especially when so much is already being paid. Trust me, I am going with the PS4 because it is cheaper and because of what Microsoft did (at least for the first year), but saying it is ridiculously expensive is a huge exaggeration when it is only 100 more than the PS4.

Avatar image for jetpaction
Jetpaction

89

Forum Posts

56

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 3

Edited By Jetpaction

@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By mrfluke

@jetpaction said:

@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.

if its as real loose as the original claims are. how is that not different than piracy or basically creates console piracy?.

and to your original point, yes its happening on an offline mode, but i ask you this, how much more magnitudes would it be happening more now that instead of meeting your buddies, you can just loan them your games from home? lazy is a dammning bad word, but when we as consumers see "convenience and FREE" how do we not take advantage and use the hell out of it where we can just wait and then have access to these games from our buddies FREE "through the cloud'

also thinking about it, i could see them hiding this feature behind Xbox live gold, im going to say that was very likely to be the case. (microsoft did just invest $700 million into server farms, they gotta turn a profit on that, not to mention that balmer wants to turn microsoft into a devices and SERVICES company)

which there is a very possible scenario where at the end of the day MS gets more gold Subscribers so they gain at the end of this, while the publishers get their games loaned over

as again IF it was a loose as the original claims were, then you would only need 1 out of 10 people to buy a game for 10 people to get a chance to play it. multiplayer games should be just fine, as the generalization is that 8 out of 10 will buy the multiplayer game, but singleplayer games? this will just damm them to hell in terms of profitability vs used games which gives the user a form of currency to buy the games at a discount at NEW.

and then if they announced their restrictions or had restrictions, i just dont see that sitting well with the digital evangelists

Avatar image for humanity
Humanity

21858

Forum Posts

5738

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 40

User Lists: 16

@iamjohn: That all fine and well but the point wasn't that Netflix had mail in DVD's or that it tried to split into two different entities but rather that it tried introducing a brand new way of dealing with rentals that was unheard of at the time and now has almost become the status quo. No one rented movies by going to the internet - you could just go to a rental place, take the DVD off the shelf and take it home. The fact that they bet on people A) having internet to use their service and B) seeing the benefit of doing so instead of going to their brick and mortar rental place was a huge risk that paid off.

Which brings me back to the point that you can't develop nextgen systems while constantly worrying about what the people on the nuclear submarine going to do, or the people who want to play it in their woodland cottage. At one point the availability of dependable internet won't be such a grand factor anymore and it's good to keep that in mind when developing a system that is looking to have a 7 year life cycle if not more.

Avatar image for chose
chose

273

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

Avatar image for nekroskop
Nekroskop

2830

Forum Posts

47

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By Nekroskop

-$100 more

-TV

-Underpowered GPU

-Worse RAM

-Inefficient OS

-Kinect

Need I go on?

Avatar image for gaspower
GaspoweR

4904

Forum Posts

272

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 2

Edited By GaspoweR

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By mrfluke

@humanity said:

@iamjohn: At one point the availability of dependable internet won't be such a grand factor anymore and it's good to keep that in mind when developing a system that is looking to have a 7 year life cycle if not more.

the point is, society is not there yet, once we're there then you use features that depend on a internet connection, excluding a sizeable amount of people like that RIGHT NOW is very elitist and narrow minded.later on when internet is amazing everywhere THEN it wont matter.
the DVD division of netflix, gamestop, gamefly, would not be still a big business if there wasnt a very sizeable crowd CURRENTLY buying what they are selling.
for someone who's username is humanity, you seem to want to exclude a good % of humanity from the options they had
Avatar image for rurounigeo
RurouniGeo

143

Forum Posts

9

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Anyone else think of Mario Party when they read this article title?

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

not to be all tinfoil hat, but its hard to take them seriously upfront, as they are saying that NOW,

but just remember, a few weeks ago, they were VERY adamant about their box requiring to be always online, and were very adamant about their policies, and they were also very muggy on the specifics of their plan.

Avatar image for fminus
FMinus

410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By FMinus

Why do people link graphs to broadband access in the US as if this is the only planned market for that thing, by that standard let's start linking statistics of how many countries outside of the US are able to take advantage of all the TV related stuff the Xbox One should bring to your homes.

A guess, maybe Canada and some in South America, but the whole or Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania have no use of those features yet this is like 80% what is new regarding features in this console, yet the console still remains priced the same or even higher in those mentioned regions.

Let's not forget that different countries also have different broadcasting standards, I don't see a coaxial jack at the back of the Xbox One, and that's what my country requires for digital television + a decoder card and I don't see a slot for that said card on the Xbox One either.

My Xbox 360 serves me only to play games because everything else you can experience over in the USA just doesn't work here.

Just in spite however, most of Europe is on broadband from the poorest countries to the richest. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind the digital game distribution ala Steam, I'm used to that, I don't lend/borrow games and the used market doesn't exist at all here, the 24h online was dumb but that's the only gripe I had, everything else is basically Steam and I Love steam.

Different people, different views, the price is still the dumbest thing tho.

Avatar image for khidi
khidi

38

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@chose What you pointed out is what it might have been, we don't and probably won't ever know for sure what pre-180 plans were. But yeah, funny how letting 10 people use 1 copy of a game gets publishers more money, supposedly.

@humanity That is certainly true that you don't move forwards if you are afraid that anyone might be left behind. And what MS was planning to do if I can loan your Netflix example, is scrapping their current DVD mailing part and jumping straight to internet renting only, in selected cities, in selected states. (I don't really know where Netflix is actually available, living behind don't-know-who's back in northern europe kinda has made sure of that)

What MS probably should have tried is what Netflix did, start providing digital service and make it more appealing to use than physical discs like everyone and their dog's chewtoy has probably said at this point. Not directed at you.

And MS can decide to try that jump later, before or after launch but if they decide to ignore/not care about a large part of their current customer base by their own choice, they can't act suprised when that part of their customer base doesn't care about them or their product anymore.

Because if you go around yelling "screw poor/sick/military/less priviledged people" and those people return the favour you can only blame yourself for it, don't you? Again not directed to you but to this conversation as a whole.

Avatar image for thrice_604
THRICE_604

217

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

Edited By THRICE_604

I wish people would stop lending credence to the used games are going to destroy the industry myth. Its a smokescreen blocking the real issues at hand. Bloated production and marketing budgets and unrealistic time restraints. If your game is selling millions of copies and making hundreds of millions of dollars and its not profitable you did that to yourself. A game that sold six million copies and was a financial failure wouldn't have suddenly sold eighteen million because you eliminated used sales.

Avatar image for spraynardtatum
spraynardtatum

4384

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

I think we just saw the rise of the entitlement generation now dictating the future for everyone else with their incessant, butthurt, and whining. Yet, it should be said, that these weak-minded fools can also be easily manipulated into cheering for things such as now having to pay for multiplayer. Did you see how happy they were for that?

Yeah, the entitlement generation got together and decided it was time to take over! Now we, the entitled, will govern the whole world with our horrible horrible need to question authority and voice our opinions when we disagree with business practices!

This whole debacle certainly wasn't a bunch of people fighting for their rights as consumers...

By lumping this in with the "entitlement generation" you have shown how little you understand the point of view of these people.

The DRM that Microsoft wanted to create was offensive and unacceptable. Maybe it was presented that way because of poor messaging and the actual policy was much friendlier to middle class and lower class citizens of the world but the "entitlement generation" wasn't in charge of messaging. They just took it on themselves to voice their opinion. Loudly and frequently.

Avatar image for anjinm
AnjinM

157

Forum Posts

71

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

The best news in all this is summed up in the last paragraph: we have a ballgame again. With the consoles releasing with greater parity, they both need to compete for customers. Competition is exactly what gamers need.

Avatar image for unholyone123
unholyone123

203

Forum Posts

13

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

Edited By unholyone123

" A predominantly dire attitude was taken on by prominent figures like Cliff Bleszinski and Lee Perry as they spoke of doom saying numbers that they proclaimed showed how bad things have gotten in top-tier game development. The thing is, they're not wrong. The current model is deeply in the red, with not a lot of return on investment for increasingly bloated game budgets."

I actually like Cliff Bleszinski, but I do think that he has forgotten one thing though. The cost of producing any product, not just video games, is absolutely NOT the consumers problem. Nobody is forcing any of these companies to pour millions of dollars into their games. I feel like Cliff might be looking at the rise in popularity of low to mid tier games, and maybe feels like big budget blockbuster game makers like him will become less prominent in the future.

Avatar image for marblecmoney
marblecmoney

599

Forum Posts

113

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 9

Good read, Alex.

Avatar image for rvone
RVonE

5027

Forum Posts

8740

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

@humanity said:

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is a difference between the examples you mention and Netflix. Yes, you don't get Sky One, but you have alternatives that offer roughly the same service. As for automatics, they aren't popular here but they've been available over here for as long as automatics have existed. So, as a European, I could buy an automatic if I wanted to. That's categorically not the case with Netflix.

More to the point, Netflix requires an online connection to stream or download content and that's totally fine because it makes sense. The Xbox will require an online connection to stream or download stuff and to play games online. That's also fine because it makes sense. What I don't understand is why I would have to be connected to play single-player games. It absolutely makes no sense to me.

Avatar image for divergence
divergence

513

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By divergence

Alex, good job on this piece. Very well written. I think someone mentioned on one of the last Bombcasts that essentially Sony chose to take a "passive" approach to the DRM stuff and let is resolve itself as we move away from discs. I think that is exactly right and I didn't look at it that way before. Microsoft was getting ahead of itself with this stuff knowing where we'll eventually be when the disc goes away, but it was a mistake. Once consoles ship without an optical drive, then the market will be ready. Can't say their ideas are bad, just ill-timed and probably more convoluted than they needed to be. In the end I'm happy MS decided to bite the bullet and revert back to the current model for now- and that's coming from someone who was kind of neutral on their original policies from the start.

Avatar image for nadafinga
Nadafinga

1045

Forum Posts

36764

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 10

For me personally, the only reason I want one console to become the clear choice is because I finally want all my friends to be on one system. As of right now, my friends are a pretty even split between Xbox 360 and PS3, and in this new console cycle, it would be great if one side said "screw it, I'm going with the other console." I honestly don't care too much which one, but the way it was (and still is) looking, some of those xbox friends will be coming over to the Sony side. With Sony kind of becoming a clear favorite, I'm really happy, not because I love Sony, or really want Microsoft to fail, but because I want everyone in one place.

Avatar image for mrfluke
mrfluke

6260

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Edited By mrfluke

@fminus said:

Why do people link graphs to broadband access in the US as if this is the only planned market for that thing, by that standard let's start linking statistics of how many countries outside of the US are able to take advantage of all the TV related stuff the Xbox One should bring to your homes.

A guess, maybe Canada and some in South America, but the whole or Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania have no use of those features yet this is like 80% what is new regarding features in this console, yet the console still remains priced the same or even higher in those mentioned regions.

Let's not forget that different countries also have different broadcasting standards, I don't see a coaxial jack at the back of the Xbox One, and that's what my country requires for digital television + a decoder card and I don't see a slot for that said card on the Xbox One either.

My Xbox 360 serves me only to play games because everything else you can experience over in the USA just doesn't work here.

Just in spite however, most of Europe is on broadband from the poorest countries to the richest. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind the digital game distribution ala Steam, I'm used to that, I don't lend/borrow games and the used market doesn't exist at all here, the 24h online was dumb but that's the only gripe I had, everything else is basically Steam and I Love steam.

Different people, different views, the price is still the dumbest thing tho.

im guessing your indirectly talking to me in your 1st paragraph, i only linked this (reposting it again for the idiots that dont understand)

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

to prove a point that there is a gross generalization in the US that everyone is online and has good internet. when in fact stats show that is NOT the case.

did not mean to exclude other countries, im sure there are similar statistics for other countries as well that show that there is a sizeable set that arent always online or that this box just wont work for them or that they have crappy internet, but its harder to prove that argument to the idiots without statistics and facts. (not all the pro digital are idiots though, there are some that do get it)

Avatar image for chose
chose

273

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Edited By chose

@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Sorry, but this is after the feature removal. If it was indeed "you can share all your games with 10 people without restriction" they would have made it VERY clear, explained the feature to prevent any speculation and called it "Friends Sharing", there is a small print somewhere in their Family Sharing they didn't want us to know about. It was purposefully vague, as everything they announced, because it was all step backs and customer rights infringement. So stop talking about it as if we lost a feature that might have been better than lending, renting, re-selling. We don't know what it was, we shouldn't be talking about it. Whatever they say now has no credibility as there is no accountability, there was when the feature existed, now it's just noise and should be discarded as such.

Edit: Microsoft didn't just forget to explain the only feature that might have sold their DRM policy to the public.