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The Guns of Navarro: Reversal of Fortune

Microsoft's changes to its Xbox One DRM policies were undoubtedly shocking. Alex sifts through the ashes to see what it all means.

Corporations are notoriously slow creatures. That slowness generally stands in direct proportion to the size of the corporation itself. The bigger the beast, the more people, bureaucratic processes, and legal wrangling every single decision must be pumped through before any kind of minute decision can be made. It's why I never expect much when fan outcry arises toward the various monolithic companies that make up the video game industry. Especially in the case of a behemoth like Microsoft, whose Xbox One DRM policies became the subject of much derision over the course of the last month. Here was a company that was laying out its carefully built plans for a new console, its first in eight years. This is unquestionably a huge undertaking, involving years of research and development, and considerable capital. Yes, people reacted poorly when Microsoft announced that it would not allow traditional used game sales on the system, and would require online check-ins every 24 hours in order to even play offline games. Seemingly, in its mind, the potential riling up of DRM-weary consumers was worth the risk given the potential long-term benefits of the tech.

Patrick's Xbox One story as it appeared on BBC's Click (thanks to Rowan Pellegrin for sending this over!)
Patrick's Xbox One story as it appeared on BBC's Click (thanks to Rowan Pellegrin for sending this over!)

Until, of course, it very suddenly wasn't.

To say Microsoft's reversal of those aforementioned policies this week was a surprise would be a gross understatement. Nobody saw this coming. Not the developers we talked to at E3, not the various press people commenting following the show, not anyone. Even if you believed Microsoft could be worn down at some point in the future, I hardly expect you could have foreseen them making such a jarring about-face less than a week after E3's conclusion.

This is not how companies typically react to fan or media outcry. Usually there's a lot more quiet hand-wringing as they attempt to adjust messaging, or even just flat indifference to the whole thing. Which isn't to say game companies never listen to fans, but this kind of complete reversal on such a seemingly fundamental policy that had just been announced is practically unheard of. All that research, all that preparation, all that money, essentially tossed off in the hopes that fan response would turn back in Microsoft's favor.

Yes, Microsoft has been presenting these changes as very much the result of "fan feedback," that nebulous term that could refer to the myriad angry message board and comment thread postings, the consistent feed of backlash from the games press, or even less public factors, like pre-order sales. For my money, I tend to lean on that latter one. In my experience, nothing sets a game company's ass aflame quite like soft pre-order numbers. We don't know exactly what pre-orders look like for either the Xbox One or the PlayStation 4, but there's enough anecdotal info going around to suggest that Sony's E3 press conference, with its promises of no new restrictive DRM policies and a $100 cheaper price tag, brought the company terrific early results.

If you're Microsoft, I have a hard time believing you scrap such a noteworthy chunk of your system's architecture just because a lot of angry people on the Internet were angry. Companies are trained to learn that these kinds of complaints are typically more indicative of a vocal minority. But actual, tangible sales? That's another story entirely. If people aren't pre-ordering your console to the degree that you're expecting, that's when you would typically see a company leap into action to affect change. A leap this high and this fast tells me that something was very seriously wrong in Microsoft land, and that this was not just some play to appease an upset audience, but a desperate attempt at total course correction in the face of what I can only assume they foresaw as an impending doom scenario.

Even more intriguing than Microsoft's immediate about-face was the reaction that followed. Unsurprisingly, those who had spent the last 20-some-odd days deriding the Xbox One's DRM system were generally quite thrilled. But almost immediately after the announcement hit, another side of the argument piped up. While there had been some vocal supporters of Microsoft's new DRM--typically, those who believed that such a system would be the impetus to put consoles more on par with Steam's currently (mostly) beloved digital library system--their voices were largely drowned out by people who weren't into these restrictions one bit.

Former Epic Games honcho Cliff Bleszinski has been one of the more vocal opponents of Microsoft's reversal.
Former Epic Games honcho Cliff Bleszinski has been one of the more vocal opponents of Microsoft's reversal.

So now, this previously shouted down group had reason to pipe up even louder, as the opposition quieted down. They were most certainly being fueled by numerous developers, who came out in dismay over Microsoft changing a policy that they believed would save the industry from eventual collapse. A predominantly dire attitude was taken on by prominent figures like Cliff Bleszinski and Lee Perry as they spoke of doomsaying numbers that they proclaimed showed how bad things have gotten in top-tier game development. The thing is, they're not wrong. The current model is deeply in the red, with not a lot of return on investment for increasingly bloated game budgets. That bloat, as most developers will tell you, is the direct result of the staffing and resource requirements inherent to crafting "top quality experiences" in the kinds of timetables major publishers require. Games that sell millions of copies are often still "disappointments," because they're not hitting the kinds of targets the publishers had banked on. Whether those expectations were ever realistic to begin with is, sadly, not often up for debate, since usefully precise data on game budgets and sales numbers is still generally kept away from the public view.

But as Chris Kohler notes in a piece written Friday, this isn't just an either/or argument. It's not literally: "We get rid of used games, or top quality video games go away." Nothing so binary has ever existed in this business. Companies have failed and succeeded in widely varying forms over the course of the last few decades, and how the industry might reshape itself in the face of unsustainable costs is very much an unknown. Cliff seems convinced that not having these new digital licensing tools would guarantee the status quo of tons of DLC, microtransactions, and the return of online passes, inevitably leading to some kind of eventual cataclysm. I don't think we really know that to be our only possible future yet.

Removed from the apocalyptic foretellings, some people were just mad because the various sharing features built into the system sounded pretty great. The family sharing feature, which would have allowed you to share any game you owned with up to 10 family members on any Xbox One, sounded really ideal. While some doubt over the veracity of that feature's description popped up later last week, those claims--that the system would only allow family members to play shared games for up to 60 minutes at a time, before being told to buy the full product--seem to have been debunked by various Microsoft men via Twitter.

And then there was the ability to access your entire games library digitally, even if you bought a physical copy originally. Losing that one does suck, no question, but if someone really is invested in the current vision of an all-digital future, Microsoft says they'll still have every game published on the system available day-and-date digitally alongside the disc-based copies. Access might not be quite as broad as it was before, but it still allows for a notable upgrade over Microsoft's current system, where disc-based games tend to lead their digital versions by quite a margin.

So certainly, there is reason to lament some of the losses in the wake of Microsoft's change, but such lament comes with a level of faith that a lot of consumers evidently weren't willing to put in Microsoft's $500 machine as it previously stood. Now, sans these restrictions, it seems that Xbox One preorders have risen on various retail sites. Granted, the PS4 still had a strong week-long lead of positive press driving it into Amazon's top sellers list, and with many of those pre-orders put in, we're now seeing those who held out on Microsoft meeting its about face in kind. Again, actual numbers for these sorts of things we won't know about until somebody decides a sufficient benchmark has been reached to put out a glowing press release, but it does seem like Microsoft has gotten a shot in the arm here, if nothing else.

Did Microsoft's about-face change your mind when it came to pre-ordering an Xbox One? I mean, I'd already pre-ordered one, but if I didn't need one for my job, I'd have waited.
Did Microsoft's about-face change your mind when it came to pre-ordering an Xbox One? I mean, I'd already pre-ordered one, but if I didn't need one for my job, I'd have waited.

It's also really only put-off what may still yet be an inevitable all-digital future, as the New York Times noted this weekend. Many seem to think that physical media isn't really long for this world. Even if Microsoft is removing its DRM restrictions on the Xbox One, there's no reason to believe they couldn't just implement that stuff again whenever it feels the market dictates. We are most certainly progressing toward a heavily digital games market, as indie games and day-one digital releases have become increasingly normal. It's been a slow push, and not everyone is there yet. The bandwidth isn't there for everyone, nor is the affordable storage space. But if you look at where we are now compared with, say, five years ago, the digital market has expanded by leaps and bounds. In another few years, the used market may begin to dry up all by its lonesome, with no forceful nudging from console makers. All those features Microsoft was talking about could easily be plugged back in, and at a time when the market is actually prepared for this kind of shift. And isn't that how it ought to be, anyway? The consumers dictating the fate of the used games market, instead of the game companies dictating it to us?

Whether or not this gambit pays off in the end, on some level, you just have to admire the moxie of it all. Sony drilled Microsoft at E3, and managed to rally the core gaming audience behind them in a way that a single console maker hasn't been able to in ages. Where Microsoft looked out-of-touch and indifferent, Sony looked self-aware and clever, and clearly were able to parlay that into strong early numbers. In making this change so abruptly, Microsoft may have dimmed Sony's E3 afterglow a bit, and brought itself back into the race. We have ourselves a ballgame again folks, and when two companies compete with this kind of fierceness, it's we, the consumers, who most often win in the end.

Alex Navarro on Google+

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mrfluke

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Edited By mrfluke

@humanity: an overly progressive view you have there, no snark/sarcasm, i can respect that.

and ultimately if full on digital is 100% viable for you, then more power to you.

imo ultimately what microsoft was doing to is definitely the for better or worse scenario, the fear of stripping away options that people use though (i for one use gamefly and redbox) and replacing it with a potentially dangerous plan that could be good for consumers but ultimately could screw publishers more leans it more in a for worse scenario, its astounding they didnt think to replicate trade in currency and rentals but in digital form, and they didnt think of the other cases,

imo they were creating the more exclusive box than the inclusive box and in these weird times with the overstated mobile/steam talk and the whole doom and gloom over consoles in general, i think these consoles need to be the catch all device and appeal to ALL types of consumers, which as of right now, based on the 2 pitches, sony seems more poised to be a catch all device (they offer games day 1 digital i believe, and with PS plus you get discounts of digital games and unlimited rentals essentially)

the thing i can say i agree with you with is that yea, there is still 5 months till these things launch, so things can change/altogether and Microsoft could go and match sony on all their features. but its probably-most likely my new cynicism towards Microsoft, but i dont see them matching all the way.

then again, they did revoke all these policies. yep we'ill ultimately see what happens between now and launch. as sony was also very aware of their weakness at E3 and have more exclusives to announce at gamescom.

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Curufinwe

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Edited By Curufinwe

Anyone who thinks publishers would let 10 people play the same game from one copy sold is a clueless sucker. If Microsoft's family sharing was really going to operate like that there is nothing stopping them instituting it for digital purchases now.

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FMinus

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@mrfluke said:

@fminus said:

Why do people link graphs to broadband access in the US as if this is the only planned market for that thing, by that standard let's start linking statistics of how many countries outside of the US are able to take advantage of all the TV related stuff the Xbox One should bring to your homes.

A guess, maybe Canada and some in South America, but the whole or Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania have no use of those features yet this is like 80% what is new regarding features in this console, yet the console still remains priced the same or even higher in those mentioned regions.

Let's not forget that different countries also have different broadcasting standards, I don't see a coaxial jack at the back of the Xbox One, and that's what my country requires for digital television + a decoder card and I don't see a slot for that said card on the Xbox One either.

My Xbox 360 serves me only to play games because everything else you can experience over in the USA just doesn't work here.

Just in spite however, most of Europe is on broadband from the poorest countries to the richest. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind the digital game distribution ala Steam, I'm used to that, I don't lend/borrow games and the used market doesn't exist at all here, the 24h online was dumb but that's the only gripe I had, everything else is basically Steam and I Love steam.

Different people, different views, the price is still the dumbest thing tho.

im guessing your indirectly talking to me in your 1st paragraph, i only linked this (reposting it again for the idiots that dont understand)

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

to prove a point that there is a gross generalization in the US that everyone is online and has good internet. when in fact stats show that is NOT the case.

did not mean to exclude other countries, im sure there are similar statistics for other countries as well that show that there is a sizeable set that arent always online or that this box just wont work for them or that they have crappy internet, but its harder to prove that argument to the idiots without statistics and facts. (not all the pro digital are idiots though, there are some that do get it)

It wasn't necessary related to you, but there's a lot of talk about broadband and people not having it. As said in my post the 24 hour activation is stupid and should never be realized and thanks god it isn't.

It's just that the US market isn't the only market in question and if we look at what people have or don't have around the world, we might go back to cassette tapes. For example I would think if we just go by the statistics, there is a sizeable portion of people who still don't own a HD TV set in 2013.

All I'm saying is just because you don't have broadband internet access, doesn't mean you don't have internet access at all. I was downloading .mp3 files back in the day on my 28.800 baud modem it was slow as hell for a 3.5MB mp3, but I downloaded about 10GB of them before I got ISDN and ADSL and now 100/20 cable. ISDN is well enough for system upgrades and even downloading small games, no broadband required, sure you'll wait 8hours for a download and, would go faster with better speeds, but you have internet, not broadband, but internet. As for 56kbps modem users (if they still exist), well they really are out of luck here.

I mean don't make the console punish people who don't have or can't get broadband internet, but also don't just look at that portion of people, but people who have broadband access. I guess they gonna do that, I'd much rather download my games as to drive to a shop and buy them, or order them online. I'm that type of guy who buys on impulse, and when it comes to games, if I like what I see, I buy it, but I expect to play it in the next 2-3 hours not, waiting one work day or worse, so that's why I love Steam and hope the Xbox One and PS4 will do the same and as mentioned above, sharing/lending and used games don't exist here at all, so I'm fine with my games being locked to my account - but again different people different views.

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sdharrison

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@marokai Agreed totally. Reading through these comments had me dangerously close to shutting my laptop and needing to find a quiet, peaceful space to recover.

I would add my support to the "why can't we have both these things" camp. For anybody that isn't a complete fool, it isn't difficult to decode what Microsofts 24 hour check in was. Or rather, wasn't. It obviously wasn't a "feature" to "harness the power of the cloud". That would have been a constant connected state. Which in a different world, is actually less insane than the 24 hour check. Fine, make your system legitimately always on and let the chips fall where they may. At least then you can make an honest case. All of the nonsense corporate mouth diarrhea boiled down to Microsoft wanting more control, and that's it. This was a vision of the future, all right - a future where Microsoft controls your content, and makes a boatload of money and can tell everyone in the industry how high to jump.

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@monprr said:

I don't understand why some people have so much faith in Microsoft leading us into the "digital future." I haven't seen that many interesting sales in the 8 years I have been subscribing to Live, the pricing for the games market are a joke (why are 3 year old games still $60?), and they have only just now started rewarding their subscribers with 4-5 year-old free games. I see nothing wrong with both systems gradually expanding on their digital features while still having physical media for people who can't take advantage of those features (and for people who just prefer physical media).

Which 3 year old games are $60?

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@chose: Well, I don't think that people should be blaming the negative reaction and blaming them for the loss of the feature but it's also a tad too dismissive to say that MS are trying to make people feel guilty. I have to agree though that I really do dislike it when there are people who are starting to turn on one another. Anyway, it'll be bad though if MS console division will suffer because of this since just having one console manufacturer for third party publishers to be able to rely on is detrimental to the industry since Sony can't be the only one that the major publishers can rely on. If anything, this move on their part just keeps them competitive and seeing them backtrack on policies that they were pretty adamant in explaining just days before isn't a good sign. A move as sudden as this just to scrap all that effort and money in pretty much launching this and explaining their policies means that pre-sale numbers were pretty bleak.

Personally though, I'm not actually going to buy any of the consoles any time close to launch, I just built myself a PC and the games that I really care about are coming out on PC anyway so I'm pretty good for now.

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monprr

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I don't understand why some people have so much faith in Microsoft leading us into the "digital future." I haven't seen that many interesting sales in the 8 years I have been subscribing to Live, the pricing for the games market are a joke (why are 3 year old games still $60?), and they have only just now started rewarding their subscribers with 4-5 year-old free games. I see nothing wrong with both systems gradually expanding on their digital features while still having physical media for people who can't take advantage of those features (and for people who just prefer physical media).

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I think it's fairly clear that despite their 180, MS simply doesn't get it, and anyone who sees this move as more than superficial is silly, in my opinion. Pretty much the only way MS was getting my money was if they brought games that vastly outshone Sony's, instead they showed up with another Halo (yawn).

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spraynardtatum

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@marokai: We're in the same camp. I can't listen to corporate PR crap without gagging. Sony seems to be ditching that bullshit (as much as a huge corporation can) and actually answering questions. They're not perfect, but the fact that they went the morally correct route speaks volumes to me. I'm buying the PS4 because I love videogames and not because I'm buying into some "future" that a corporation is selling me. Nothing is as inevitable as people seem to think.

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@humanity said:

@rvone said:

@humanity said:

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is a difference between the examples you mention and Netflix. Yes, you don't get Sky One, but you have alternatives that offer roughly the same service. As for automatics, they aren't popular here but they've been available over here for as long as automatics have existed. So, as a European, I could buy an automatic if I wanted to. That's categorically not the case with Netflix.

More to the point, Netflix requires an online connection to stream or download content and that's totally fine because it makes sense. The Xbox will require an online connection to stream or download stuff and to play games online. That's also fine because it makes sense. What I don't understand is why I would have to be connected to play single-player games. It absolutely makes no sense to me.

But all that is pointless to discuss at any length now since they're no longer going that route. The bottomline for me was that although some of their decisions were a bit misguided and not 100% consumer friendly, I felt that Microsoft actually had a vision for the future. I didn't get that same feeling from Sony - it felt more like a regression in that they said "ok here is the PS4, it's a box that plays games x10 better than the previous one, nothing changed, enjoy!" That is not to say that the PS4 does not look like an attractive console and at a $100 less it's certainly a tempting proposition. I just don't think it evolves anything about the way we experience console games apart from giving us more polygons to look at.

And I agree.

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@mrfluke: I don't view the "cloud" on either system to be a huge game changer until I see it properly utilized in some jaw dropping ways. To ME specifically, the digital game library that Microsoft was trying to push onto consumers felt like one possible future for console gaming. The way the console starts to integrate with my living room instead of just being another disjointed part of it. Microsoft for better and worse was trying to introduce you to a whole new way of ingesting game content. The PS4 is an amazing piece of technology that largely functions like it's predecessor.

Of course I haven't experienced either console first hand and in the coming months between now and November either company can still come out with shocking new revelations about their systems so it's a bit early to write anyone off. These are my initial impressions and I'm sure they will change 10 times over by the time I actually get to hold a PS4 or XBO controller in my hands.

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I really like that line with consumers dictating the fate of used games, I would say that can be used for everything, consumers should have the choice.

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@marokai said:

I am so, so over listening to people talk about the "digital future" as if it is this unquestioned leap forward that we will all be forced into because the benefits of it are inarguable. For all the people that go on and on about how Microsoft's problem was "messaging," here's the reason they weren't explaining the benefits of the Xbox One in a better way: There weren't any.

Straight up. It's the same reason we got a bunch of bullshit talk about "five billion transistors!" when they went into spec talk in the initial reveal, because they know what they have isn't good enough, and getting into the nitty gritty makes them look bad because the reality is that it was a scheme to steal control of the experience away from the average consumer and try to suck up as much money as possible. Microsoft wants to be a monopoly and can't seem to function when they aren't one. They weren't doing any of this bullshit for our benefit and I cannot believe we're still having this discussion about "messaging." The problem is they were selling, and in many cases still are selling, and inherently flawed product. End of.

It's also really only put-off what may still yet be an inevitable all-digital future, as the New York Times notedthis weekend. Many seem to think that physical media isn't really long for this world.

Many think it, and yet there is literally no reason to unless you're taking the extreme long view. Physical products will be around as long as there is a market for physical products. The iTunes store launched over a decade ago, and getting music online was a well established practice long before even then. But they're still selling physical CDs. By the hundreds of millions. Every year. Not "music activation discs" that you install to your computer and download data from Le Cloud. Simple, straightforward products that serve the market that doesn't want to, or can't, buy music digitally, and so long as there are physical products, there's no justification to apply a bunch of activation code crap to it either. It makes absolutely no business sense to go only-digital at this point in time, and it won't make any sense for the foreseeable future. You don't have to be some sort of seer to figure this out, either.

This isn't an argument over having digital distribution (absolutely nothing says these two markets can't co-exist), and it's not an argument over whether or not we should use the fucking internet. This has been a fight to take away existing ownership ability and install a new layer of business bullshit on top of an existing market that has survived around forty years without anything like it. We should stop being all CNN about this shit and lay out what's been going on here for what it really is. It's about used games. It's about obsessively controlling anything that even remotely approaches the corporate definition of "piracy." Certain people who perpetually feel the need to feel above others by using terms like "entitlement" or "whiners" are Microsoft's useful idiots, fooled into thinking that this is about having digital distribution for all of their games, something that by and large already exists.

especially when, day 1 digital is still happening, persistent online games are happening regardless (look at destiny, its still coming out on current gen systems) , cloud tech integration is still happening for the games that will use it, and the sharing plan is ultimately on hold. and the feature sets of the consoles are being evolved regardless, so its not just the "xbox 360 2.0" "ps3 that plays games will better fidelity" really fucking ridiculous that that is even a argument point..

i firmly believe both markets can co exist (whether one is dominant over the other, we'ill see) but the people basically saying FUCK YOU to a sizeable audience that uses rentals and used games needs to fuck off and realize people are not always online. i dont deny 5 years down the line, internet would not be an issue,

but this present day all those restrictions if they were still in place, would making gaming more exclusive than inclusive, no matter how much % so.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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@nicked said:

To some degree, I don't think Sony's digital services get enough credit. PS+ gets you deep discounts and free games for 50 bucks. It's a really amazing deal that encourages digital purchases and I feel like nobody is talking about it.

Sony all around is getting no credit for the great shit they've been trying to do lately, as opposed to all this vague magic-talk bullshit Microsoft has been hocus-pocusing since the Kinect launched. It's been maddening as just an average dude to follow the media narrative of the last six months, because it's been a bunch of hysterical and outrageous Microsoft mistakes and a ghastly increase in corporate control over the video game experience, and while consumers have been off trying to get informed and raging at the correct people (like we're constantly told we need to start doing), the media narrative has been "SONY'S PROBABLY UP TO SOMETHING TOO, DON'T BELIEVE THEIR LIES" regardless of whatever actually keeps happening.

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deactivated-6050ef4074a17

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I am so, so over listening to people talk about the "digital future" as if it is this unquestioned leap forward that we will all be forced into because the benefits of it are inarguable. For all the people that go on and on about how Microsoft's problem was "messaging," here's the reason they weren't explaining the benefits of the Xbox One in a better way: There weren't any.

Straight up. It's the same reason we got a bunch of bullshit talk about "five billion transistors!" when they went into spec talk in the initial reveal, because they know what they have isn't good enough, and getting into the nitty gritty makes them look bad because the reality is that it was a scheme to steal control of the experience away from the average consumer and try to suck up as much money as possible. Microsoft wants to be a monopoly and can't seem to function when they aren't one. They weren't doing any of this bullshit for our benefit and I cannot believe we're still having this discussion about "messaging." The problem is they were selling, and in many cases still are selling, and inherently flawed product. End of.

It's also really only put-off what may still yet be an inevitable all-digital future, as the New York Times notedthis weekend. Many seem to think that physical media isn't really long for this world.

Many think it, and yet there is literally no reason to unless you're taking the extreme long view. Physical products will be around as long as there is a market for physical products. The iTunes store launched over a decade ago, and getting music online was a well established practice long before even then. But they're still selling physical CDs. By the hundreds of millions. Every year. Not "music activation discs" that you install to your computer and download data from Le Cloud. Simple, straightforward products that serve the market that doesn't want to, or can't, buy music digitally, and so long as there are physical products, there's no justification to apply a bunch of activation code crap to it either. It makes absolutely no business sense to go only-digital at this point in time, and it won't make any sense for the foreseeable future. You don't have to be some sort of seer to figure this out, either.

This isn't an argument over having digital distribution (absolutely nothing says these two markets can't co-exist), and it's not an argument over whether or not we should use the fucking internet. This has been a fight to take away existing ownership ability and install a new layer of business bullshit on top of an existing market that has survived around forty years without anything like it. We should stop being all CNN about this shit and lay out what's been going on here for what it really is. It's about used games. It's about obsessively controlling anything that even remotely approaches the corporate definition of "piracy." Certain people who perpetually feel the need to feel above others by using terms like "entitlement" or "whiners" are Microsoft's useful idiots, fooled into thinking that this is about having digital distribution for all of their games, something that by and large already exists.

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Edited By mrfluke
@humanity said:

@rvone said:

@humanity said:

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is a difference between the examples you mention and Netflix. Yes, you don't get Sky One, but you have alternatives that offer roughly the same service. As for automatics, they aren't popular here but they've been available over here for as long as automatics have existed. So, as a European, I could buy an automatic if I wanted to. That's categorically not the case with Netflix.

More to the point, Netflix requires an online connection to stream or download content and that's totally fine because it makes sense. The Xbox will require an online connection to stream or download stuff and to play games online. That's also fine because it makes sense. What I don't understand is why I would have to be connected to play single-player games. It absolutely makes no sense to me.

The main reason you would need to be connected to the internet in the original XBO scheme even for single player games was so that after you have installed your game fully onto the drive and no longer required the disc you wouldn't unplug your console and lend that disc to 10 of your friends who would in turn all do the same thing. That online check-in was there in lieu of CD-KEYs. It was basically Microsofts solution to a Steam-like library system in a console world.

But all that is pointless to discuss at any length now since they're no longer going that route. The bottomline for me was that although some of their decisions were a bit misguided and not 100% consumer friendly, I felt that Microsoft actually had a vision for the future. I didn't get that same feeling from Sony - it felt more like a regression in that they said "ok here is the PS4, it's a box that plays games x10 better than the previous one, nothing changed, enjoy!" That is not to say that the PS4 does not look like an attractive console and at a $100 less it's certainly a tempting proposition. I just don't think it evolves anything about the way we experience console games apart from giving us more polygons to look at.

thats a gross generalization and i dont get that argument either (not specifically targeting you this time, ive heard this from a few other people as well). people seem to forgot that the 2 companies had events that talked about their other features and specifically left it to be all about games at E3

(also funny that people have forgotten that sony has cloud tech as well, and that they have been more forward with what their goals/ambitions are that isn't just backwards compatibility vs what microsoft has been treating cloud like a mystical entity, when whats coming out of what their cloud is from developers is that its more for dedicated servers and more offloading what the cpu would be normally be using it for)

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/meet-the-future-of-playstation-with-us/2300-7066/

http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/xbox-one-reveal/2300-7397/

the utilities that people have now to experience games are being left alone cause there is enough of a crowd that depends of said utilities like rentals and used games, that doesn't mean the feature sets of the machines are not being evolved. and that doesn't mean the ambitions of the persistent online world games are gone, especially when those will require the online connection in the first place so they will be using cloud tech one way or another.

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They saw Windows 8 and they didn't want to pull a PS3 'the future of consoles ... blah blah doesn't begin to we say so" thing that put Sony into an early slump in the last gen. The damage is already done, and high, in circles like the military and the early adopter, . . over the long haul, as a multifunction device ( I have one of those, it's called a PC . . Sony even sells those w / Windows) . . but over the long haul, are these devices at their prime or behind it. We have to wait and see.

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chose

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@gaspower said:

@chose said:

@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Sorry, but this is after the feature removal. If it was indeed "you can share all your games with 10 people without restriction" they would have made it VERY clear, explained the feature to prevent any speculation and called it "Friends Sharing", there is a small print somewhere in their Family Sharing they didn't want us to know about. It was purposefully vague, as everything they announced, because it was all step backs and customer rights infringement. So stop talking about it as if we lost a feature that might have been better than lending, renting, re-selling. We don't know what it was, we shouldn't be talking about it. Whatever they say now has no credibility as there is no accountability, there was when the feature existed, now it's just noise and should be discarded as such.

Edit: Microsoft didn't just forget to explain the only feature that might have sold their DRM policy to the public.

I wasn't championing it to be "better than lending, renting, re-selling" as you put it but as it is the concept is pretty good. I just thought that the Family Sharing feature was very interesting and pretty cool if it were executed minus the other caveats such as the 24 hour check-in. Sure I agree that they probably should have been more clear about this feature from the get-go if there was any other caveats but keep in mind this whole issue about it being a glorified demo never came into picture prior to that Pastebin that was being shared. I'm just stating my opinion on it and you shouldn't be telling me what I should and shouldn't be talking about. If you still think that it is a glorified demo since as you put it we can't account for it now since MS got rid of the feature even if they already cleared that up that there isn't a time restriction then fine but you don't have to be incredibly abrasive about it.

Sure, I could have been more diplomat, but it infuriates me to see people buy into corporation's manipulation, because that is all they want to have people think "we lost a great feature, because we acted out of emotion", so the next time they pull out some bs like that we, and the press, are more hesitant to judge and decide to "wait until we try it for ourselves" and let them have their way. All they want is for us to think we made a mistake, they want us to blame ourselves, the same way a salesman manipulates you to think you want to buy something rather than being sold something. Sorry but I can't help myself when the people around me are being taken for fools, and I'm sorry for calling you a fool, but at least I'm on your side and trying to help you, they on the other hand just want to exploit you.

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@rvone said:

@humanity said:

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is a difference between the examples you mention and Netflix. Yes, you don't get Sky One, but you have alternatives that offer roughly the same service. As for automatics, they aren't popular here but they've been available over here for as long as automatics have existed. So, as a European, I could buy an automatic if I wanted to. That's categorically not the case with Netflix.

More to the point, Netflix requires an online connection to stream or download content and that's totally fine because it makes sense. The Xbox will require an online connection to stream or download stuff and to play games online. That's also fine because it makes sense. What I don't understand is why I would have to be connected to play single-player games. It absolutely makes no sense to me.

The main reason you would need to be connected to the internet in the original XBO scheme even for single player games was so that after you have installed your game fully onto the drive and no longer required the disc you wouldn't unplug your console and lend that disc to 10 of your friends who would in turn all do the same thing. That online check-in was there in lieu of CD-KEYs. It was basically Microsofts solution to a Steam-like library system in a console world.

But all that is pointless to discuss at any length now since they're no longer going that route. The bottomline for me was that although some of their decisions were a bit misguided and not 100% consumer friendly, I felt that Microsoft actually had a vision for the future. I didn't get that same feeling from Sony - it felt more like a regression in that they said "ok here is the PS4, it's a box that plays games x10 better than the previous one, nothing changed, enjoy!" That is not to say that the PS4 does not look like an attractive console and at a $100 less it's certainly a tempting proposition. I just don't think it evolves anything about the way we experience console games apart from giving us more polygons to look at.

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Whether a fanboy or a smart consumer, whether pro-Sony or Pro-MS...I hope everyone understood:

"And isn't that how it ought to be, anyway? The consumers dictating the fate of the used games market, instead of the game companies dictating it to us?"

Love it, excellent article Alex.

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@chose said:

@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Sorry, but this is after the feature removal. If it was indeed "you can share all your games with 10 people without restriction" they would have made it VERY clear, explained the feature to prevent any speculation and called it "Friends Sharing", there is a small print somewhere in their Family Sharing they didn't want us to know about. It was purposefully vague, as everything they announced, because it was all step backs and customer rights infringement. So stop talking about it as if we lost a feature that might have been better than lending, renting, re-selling. We don't know what it was, we shouldn't be talking about it. Whatever they say now has no credibility as there is no accountability, there was when the feature existed, now it's just noise and should be discarded as such.

Edit: Microsoft didn't just forget to explain the only feature that might have sold their DRM policy to the public.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2042801/microsoft-investing-over-670-million-in-iowa-data-center.html

http://allthingsd.com/20130623/update-microsoft-restructuring-nears-as-execs-top-fret-over-their-fate/

(you dont just pump that amount of money to help bolster xbox live without the expectation of making that money back, and you dont also have people saying that steve balmer (the guy that is at the top of the food chain at microsoft now that gates is not there) is looking to shift microsoft into a devices and services company)

reading those links over again, its EXTREMELY likely this family plan would have been locked behind xbox gold.

which would give microsoft ALL to gain as their subscriber numbers will go up, but if that family plan was as great as the original claims, then that just leaves a dangerous uncertainty for publishers, as if the average consumers wise up, it would be very very exploited as then people would just buddy up in groups of 10 and have the 1 person buy the game for the 10 to play, vs having used games which gives users currency to put into buying the game NEW.

to the very least though, having a loose sharing plan like the original claims would definitely eat into new game sales.

in short, there's no damm way that family plan was as easy and as glorious without a catch. i dont think microsoft is sooooo stupid as people claim (they are stupid, not stupid stupid though) they would have been touting that plan more if it was as glorious and as pro consumer

and i would not be surprised if this set of news was the one that wasnt made clear to publishers (hence how you have them coming out and saying they are hearing about this news like us) im sure they were asking microsoft to do something about used games, but i doubt they arranged with them to have their multi million dollar games be shared up to 10 people just like that.

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@chose said:

@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Sorry, but this is after the feature removal. If it was indeed "you can share all your games with 10 people without restriction" they would have made it VERY clear, explained the feature to prevent any speculation and called it "Friends Sharing", there is a small print somewhere in their Family Sharing they didn't want us to know about. It was purposefully vague, as everything they announced, because it was all step backs and customer rights infringement. So stop talking about it as if we lost a feature that might have been better than lending, renting, re-selling. We don't know what it was, we shouldn't be talking about it. Whatever they say now has no credibility as there is no accountability, there was when the feature existed, now it's just noise and should be discarded as such.

Edit: Microsoft didn't just forget to explain the only feature that might have sold their DRM policy to the public.

I wasn't championing it to be "better than lending, renting, re-selling" as you put it but as it is the concept is pretty good. I just thought that the Family Sharing feature was very interesting and pretty cool if it were executed minus the other caveats such as the 24 hour check-in. Sure I agree that they probably should have been more clear about this feature from the get-go if there was any other caveats but keep in mind this whole issue about it being a glorified demo never came into picture prior to that Pastebin that was being shared. I'm just stating my opinion on it and you shouldn't be telling me what I should and shouldn't be talking about. If you still think that it is a glorified demo since as you put it we can't account for it now since MS got rid of the feature even if they already cleared that up that there isn't a time restriction then fine but you don't have to be incredibly abrasive about it.

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Palaeomerus

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@likeassur: I don't believe "the people" are unhappy. The backlash over family sharing seems pretty ginned up.

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I don't belive for one minute that MS family plan actually let consumers share theire whole library with 10 other consoles.I mean even if they denied it who can take the statements released at face value after the whole messaging fiasco.

In what universe would it make sense for publishers to permit one account with a even 10 games to share to 10 other people .We are talking here thousands of $ of lost revenue lost for publishers from only ONE account.

No way that this was ever a viable option.

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darkstorn

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@darkest4 said:

You lost by quoting Cliff, can we please stop giving this guy attention? I can't believe people really buy into this notion that used games are killing video games. Used games have been around from the start and the industry has grown tons. Many developers are doing just fine, those that struggle are struggling due to their own fault, stop letting them convince you otherwise. Every other physical product in the world has a used market. Blaming used games is just them not wanting to take responsibility for their own mistakes. Those companies are paying their execs too much, focusing too much on costly things like EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE instead of quality story telling, creating shitty games that no one wants, not managing their money correctly and so on... and then blaming everything on used games. It's just a cop out, stop letting them convince you it's true.

Stop listening to guys like Cliff talk about how they desperately need more money and used games are killing them.. the guy is just another greedy millionaire who want to make more millions with minimal effort pumping out lazy sequels. Maybe developers should start by cutting the pay checks of guys like Cliff instead of blaming everyone else?

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/cliff-bleszinski-net-worth/

Boo hoo Cliffy, making 15million in this "dying industry" being pillaged by "used games", you only have hundreds of times more money than your average customer poor guy I feel so bad for you. Give me a break.

Agreed, but I think Alex would rather avoid shitting on Cliffy as a games journalist.

I was interested in the XONE until the price announcement and the DRM details were revealed. Now it's back in the game, but unless most great games this gen aren't on PC then I'm probably going to avoid picking up a new console.

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Microsoft can say whatever they want about the feature now that it won't be a reality. They as a business were SUPPOSED to make their case when we first started paying attention, not after they drop the policy while proclaiming how great it totally would have been.

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It just dawned on me that people in favor of all of this reminds me a lot of religious people doing things in the hopes things will be great in the afterlife. There is no guarantee that whatever Microsoft had planned would have been the great digital future of gaming. And with the lack of a guarantee, I am going to go with my gut feeling regarding tangible evidence; shitty policies that are an insult to my support of the industry. Even if they don't actually affect me beyond principle. So, I remain skeptical that Microsoft actually knew what they were doing and still have not seen evidence of them actually bringing a product I feel like paying for.

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Another great piece Alex.

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@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Sorry, but this is after the feature removal. If it was indeed "you can share all your games with 10 people without restriction" they would have made it VERY clear, explained the feature to prevent any speculation and called it "Friends Sharing", there is a small print somewhere in their Family Sharing they didn't want us to know about. It was purposefully vague, as everything they announced, because it was all step backs and customer rights infringement. So stop talking about it as if we lost a feature that might have been better than lending, renting, re-selling. We don't know what it was, we shouldn't be talking about it. Whatever they say now has no credibility as there is no accountability, there was when the feature existed, now it's just noise and should be discarded as such.

Edit: Microsoft didn't just forget to explain the only feature that might have sold their DRM policy to the public.

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@fminus said:

Why do people link graphs to broadband access in the US as if this is the only planned market for that thing, by that standard let's start linking statistics of how many countries outside of the US are able to take advantage of all the TV related stuff the Xbox One should bring to your homes.

A guess, maybe Canada and some in South America, but the whole or Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania have no use of those features yet this is like 80% what is new regarding features in this console, yet the console still remains priced the same or even higher in those mentioned regions.

Let's not forget that different countries also have different broadcasting standards, I don't see a coaxial jack at the back of the Xbox One, and that's what my country requires for digital television + a decoder card and I don't see a slot for that said card on the Xbox One either.

My Xbox 360 serves me only to play games because everything else you can experience over in the USA just doesn't work here.

Just in spite however, most of Europe is on broadband from the poorest countries to the richest. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind the digital game distribution ala Steam, I'm used to that, I don't lend/borrow games and the used market doesn't exist at all here, the 24h online was dumb but that's the only gripe I had, everything else is basically Steam and I Love steam.

Different people, different views, the price is still the dumbest thing tho.

im guessing your indirectly talking to me in your 1st paragraph, i only linked this (reposting it again for the idiots that dont understand)

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

to prove a point that there is a gross generalization in the US that everyone is online and has good internet. when in fact stats show that is NOT the case.

did not mean to exclude other countries, im sure there are similar statistics for other countries as well that show that there is a sizeable set that arent always online or that this box just wont work for them or that they have crappy internet, but its harder to prove that argument to the idiots without statistics and facts. (not all the pro digital are idiots though, there are some that do get it)

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For me personally, the only reason I want one console to become the clear choice is because I finally want all my friends to be on one system. As of right now, my friends are a pretty even split between Xbox 360 and PS3, and in this new console cycle, it would be great if one side said "screw it, I'm going with the other console." I honestly don't care too much which one, but the way it was (and still is) looking, some of those xbox friends will be coming over to the Sony side. With Sony kind of becoming a clear favorite, I'm really happy, not because I love Sony, or really want Microsoft to fail, but because I want everyone in one place.

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Alex, good job on this piece. Very well written. I think someone mentioned on one of the last Bombcasts that essentially Sony chose to take a "passive" approach to the DRM stuff and let is resolve itself as we move away from discs. I think that is exactly right and I didn't look at it that way before. Microsoft was getting ahead of itself with this stuff knowing where we'll eventually be when the disc goes away, but it was a mistake. Once consoles ship without an optical drive, then the market will be ready. Can't say their ideas are bad, just ill-timed and probably more convoluted than they needed to be. In the end I'm happy MS decided to bite the bullet and revert back to the current model for now- and that's coming from someone who was kind of neutral on their original policies from the start.

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@humanity said:

@rvone: I don't get Sky One in the US either. Netflix is a good example of moving into a new phase of renting and watching movies. People are saying "well we can't be THAT lazy to be bothered about putting a disc in" but we are. It's not laziness exactly either, rather being able to do something more efficiently. A lot of people, in the continental United States, would rather stream a movie from Netflix than get up and go to the rental place. They rather put a movie on their queue and get it in the mail. I imagine it's sort of like manual transmissions. Automatics are very slowly starting to get more popular in Europe, not a huge increase but you definitely are seeing more of them today than a couple of years ago.

I'm not wholly disagreeing with your sentiment, but there is a difference between the examples you mention and Netflix. Yes, you don't get Sky One, but you have alternatives that offer roughly the same service. As for automatics, they aren't popular here but they've been available over here for as long as automatics have existed. So, as a European, I could buy an automatic if I wanted to. That's categorically not the case with Netflix.

More to the point, Netflix requires an online connection to stream or download content and that's totally fine because it makes sense. The Xbox will require an online connection to stream or download stuff and to play games online. That's also fine because it makes sense. What I don't understand is why I would have to be connected to play single-player games. It absolutely makes no sense to me.

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marblecmoney

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Good read, Alex.

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" A predominantly dire attitude was taken on by prominent figures like Cliff Bleszinski and Lee Perry as they spoke of doom saying numbers that they proclaimed showed how bad things have gotten in top-tier game development. The thing is, they're not wrong. The current model is deeply in the red, with not a lot of return on investment for increasingly bloated game budgets."

I actually like Cliff Bleszinski, but I do think that he has forgotten one thing though. The cost of producing any product, not just video games, is absolutely NOT the consumers problem. Nobody is forcing any of these companies to pour millions of dollars into their games. I feel like Cliff might be looking at the rise in popularity of low to mid tier games, and maybe feels like big budget blockbuster game makers like him will become less prominent in the future.

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The best news in all this is summed up in the last paragraph: we have a ballgame again. With the consoles releasing with greater parity, they both need to compete for customers. Competition is exactly what gamers need.

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spraynardtatum

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I think we just saw the rise of the entitlement generation now dictating the future for everyone else with their incessant, butthurt, and whining. Yet, it should be said, that these weak-minded fools can also be easily manipulated into cheering for things such as now having to pay for multiplayer. Did you see how happy they were for that?

Yeah, the entitlement generation got together and decided it was time to take over! Now we, the entitled, will govern the whole world with our horrible horrible need to question authority and voice our opinions when we disagree with business practices!

This whole debacle certainly wasn't a bunch of people fighting for their rights as consumers...

By lumping this in with the "entitlement generation" you have shown how little you understand the point of view of these people.

The DRM that Microsoft wanted to create was offensive and unacceptable. Maybe it was presented that way because of poor messaging and the actual policy was much friendlier to middle class and lower class citizens of the world but the "entitlement generation" wasn't in charge of messaging. They just took it on themselves to voice their opinion. Loudly and frequently.

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I wish people would stop lending credence to the used games are going to destroy the industry myth. Its a smokescreen blocking the real issues at hand. Bloated production and marketing budgets and unrealistic time restraints. If your game is selling millions of copies and making hundreds of millions of dollars and its not profitable you did that to yourself. A game that sold six million copies and was a financial failure wouldn't have suddenly sold eighteen million because you eliminated used sales.

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@chose What you pointed out is what it might have been, we don't and probably won't ever know for sure what pre-180 plans were. But yeah, funny how letting 10 people use 1 copy of a game gets publishers more money, supposedly.

@humanity That is certainly true that you don't move forwards if you are afraid that anyone might be left behind. And what MS was planning to do if I can loan your Netflix example, is scrapping their current DVD mailing part and jumping straight to internet renting only, in selected cities, in selected states. (I don't really know where Netflix is actually available, living behind don't-know-who's back in northern europe kinda has made sure of that)

What MS probably should have tried is what Netflix did, start providing digital service and make it more appealing to use than physical discs like everyone and their dog's chewtoy has probably said at this point. Not directed at you.

And MS can decide to try that jump later, before or after launch but if they decide to ignore/not care about a large part of their current customer base by their own choice, they can't act suprised when that part of their customer base doesn't care about them or their product anymore.

Because if you go around yelling "screw poor/sick/military/less priviledged people" and those people return the favour you can only blame yourself for it, don't you? Again not directed to you but to this conversation as a whole.

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FMinus

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Why do people link graphs to broadband access in the US as if this is the only planned market for that thing, by that standard let's start linking statistics of how many countries outside of the US are able to take advantage of all the TV related stuff the Xbox One should bring to your homes.

A guess, maybe Canada and some in South America, but the whole or Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania have no use of those features yet this is like 80% what is new regarding features in this console, yet the console still remains priced the same or even higher in those mentioned regions.

Let's not forget that different countries also have different broadcasting standards, I don't see a coaxial jack at the back of the Xbox One, and that's what my country requires for digital television + a decoder card and I don't see a slot for that said card on the Xbox One either.

My Xbox 360 serves me only to play games because everything else you can experience over in the USA just doesn't work here.

Just in spite however, most of Europe is on broadband from the poorest countries to the richest. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind the digital game distribution ala Steam, I'm used to that, I don't lend/borrow games and the used market doesn't exist at all here, the 24h online was dumb but that's the only gripe I had, everything else is basically Steam and I Love steam.

Different people, different views, the price is still the dumbest thing tho.

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@gaspower said:

@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

not to be all tinfoil hat, but its hard to take them seriously upfront, as they are saying that NOW,

but just remember, a few weeks ago, they were VERY adamant about their box requiring to be always online, and were very adamant about their policies, and they were also very muggy on the specifics of their plan.

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RurouniGeo

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Anyone else think of Mario Party when they read this article title?

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@humanity said:

@iamjohn: At one point the availability of dependable internet won't be such a grand factor anymore and it's good to keep that in mind when developing a system that is looking to have a 7 year life cycle if not more.

the point is, society is not there yet, once we're there then you use features that depend on a internet connection, excluding a sizeable amount of people like that RIGHT NOW is very elitist and narrow minded.later on when internet is amazing everywhere THEN it wont matter.
the DVD division of netflix, gamestop, gamefly, would not be still a big business if there wasnt a very sizeable crowd CURRENTLY buying what they are selling.
for someone who's username is humanity, you seem to want to exclude a good % of humanity from the options they had
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@chose said:

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

That has already been debunked by the way, there was no time limit in place in Family Sharing (even Alex linked to it in his article):

http://kotaku.com/rumor-about-xbox-one-family-sharings-downsides-has-fla-534484570

Here's the direct links to the Twitter responses in Stephen Totilo's article.

https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/348125219019436033

https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

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Nekroskop

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-$100 more

-TV

-Underpowered GPU

-Worse RAM

-Inefficient OS

-Kinect

Need I go on?

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chose

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@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.

You people need to shut the fuck up with the Family Sharing stuff. You could only share the first 30/45 min to an hour of a game, a glorified demo. Essentially transforming customers into marketing tools.

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@iamjohn: That all fine and well but the point wasn't that Netflix had mail in DVD's or that it tried to split into two different entities but rather that it tried introducing a brand new way of dealing with rentals that was unheard of at the time and now has almost become the status quo. No one rented movies by going to the internet - you could just go to a rental place, take the DVD off the shelf and take it home. The fact that they bet on people A) having internet to use their service and B) seeing the benefit of doing so instead of going to their brick and mortar rental place was a huge risk that paid off.

Which brings me back to the point that you can't develop nextgen systems while constantly worrying about what the people on the nuclear submarine going to do, or the people who want to play it in their woodland cottage. At one point the availability of dependable internet won't be such a grand factor anymore and it's good to keep that in mind when developing a system that is looking to have a 7 year life cycle if not more.

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@jetpaction said:

@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.

if its as real loose as the original claims are. how is that not different than piracy or basically creates console piracy?.

and to your original point, yes its happening on an offline mode, but i ask you this, how much more magnitudes would it be happening more now that instead of meeting your buddies, you can just loan them your games from home? lazy is a dammning bad word, but when we as consumers see "convenience and FREE" how do we not take advantage and use the hell out of it where we can just wait and then have access to these games from our buddies FREE "through the cloud'

also thinking about it, i could see them hiding this feature behind Xbox live gold, im going to say that was very likely to be the case. (microsoft did just invest $700 million into server farms, they gotta turn a profit on that, not to mention that balmer wants to turn microsoft into a devices and SERVICES company)

which there is a very possible scenario where at the end of the day MS gets more gold Subscribers so they gain at the end of this, while the publishers get their games loaned over

as again IF it was a loose as the original claims were, then you would only need 1 out of 10 people to buy a game for 10 people to get a chance to play it. multiplayer games should be just fine, as the generalization is that 8 out of 10 will buy the multiplayer game, but singleplayer games? this will just damm them to hell in terms of profitability vs used games which gives the user a form of currency to buy the games at a discount at NEW.

and then if they announced their restrictions or had restrictions, i just dont see that sitting well with the digital evangelists

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@mrfluke said:

@gaspower said:

@mrfluke said:

@posh said:

@sephirm87 said:

It's unfortunate that Microsoft backed down because so many gamers want to continue to live in the past. People who don't have high speed internet connection will either have to get an internet connection and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or stay behind and not enjoy games. It is a rather simple trade-off.

not everyone has that kind of money to spend on decent internet. you're also excluding anybody who doesn't live in an urban area, where there isn't necessarily easy access to the internet - i live in such a place. imagine if DVD players required a constant internet connection. there's no need for alienation of that scale for such a widely celebrated entertainment medium. maybe think twice about your narrow-mindedness

if the data here is right, there is a VERY sizeable population in the US that DOESNT have great internet

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology

sometimes, people need to head outside every now and then and realize that there is a sizeable population that isnt always online.

I actually loved the fact that you could have shared the games digitally and have had a digital copy in your library even if the game was bought at retail. What did suck however is the 24 hour check-in. I just hope down the line MS would be able to find a more elegant solution to that even though that particular policy must have been decided upon with months maybe even years of surveys and research before it was even decided upon, which sucks since that was probably as close of a good solution that they were able to come up with even with all that time and money being invested.

the thing that sticks me from that sharing plan being all that as amazing as the pro digital guys claimed for, is ok, if you could share your games with up to 10 people or even if it was the whole only 1 person can use the game at a time and they cant play the same game your playing....... how is that not just exploited to all hell, where you can wise up with your buddies and have 1 out of the 10 in the group buy a game and just pass the game around for your buddies to play?, the early adopters will be us always online internet people after all and if it was that loose then that would definitely damm singleplayer focused games.

(i could then coordinate with my buddies saying, "ok you buy watch dogs, ill buy assassins creed 4 and ill loan you AC4 when im done if you'ill loan me Watch_dogs" or "hey can you loan me COD ghosts for a day? i just wanna play the campaign, not really interested in buying the game")

and IF its true that the publishers are now hearing of these things, i wouldnt be surprised if they bring up these similar points to microsoft, and then come gamescom they revealed some catches with that plan that just pisses off everyone.

But if you really look at their family sharing plan, it's basically the same thing that's already happening in an offline mode now; People lend out their physical copies to friends and there's no stopping that from a publishers perspective. The advantage of Microsofts digital loaning system is that there's more income for the publishers since there's no more involvement from shops like Gamestop. And they can limit the amount of games you can share with your friends online as where with physical copies a game can be given to multiple peoples or trade in at stores like Gamestop.