I just had a run of a few maps in a row that had helicopters on them and they were unstoppable. On Wake Island, nothing we had could bring them down. They were camping the tunguskas so as soon as they spawned they were wasted, SOFLAM and Javelin wasn't working because of ECM, same story with stingers. I don't think we hit them once. So either I'm doing something wrong when trying to take them down or they need some balancing. I understand they're supposed to be powerful, but completely untouchable is a bit over the top.

A good pilot / gunner team with well matched attack chopper perks can be extremely difficult to take down. If they're base raping your mobile AA's I'd recommend getting into the stationary AA at the base, that thing is a beast to take down and chews through air vehicles quite fast. It would also give your team the breathing room to get into the mobile AA

I used to shoot down helicopters all the time in BF2. I actually think I've never done it alone in BF3 yet (played 50 hours).

I think I've shot down a helicopter with a stinger missile for a total of ONE times. The combination of pilots having infinite flares and it taking more than one missile to take them down makes it almost impossible for me. Fuck is that shit ever unbalanced.

I HAVE taken down multiple helicopters with shots from the main gun of my tank when they fly too low in front of me, as well as longer ranged guided tank shots when someone SOFLAMs a helicopter for me. I also have taken down helicopters with the default RPG when they try and swoop in. I miss most of the time but eventually I'll get a lucky shot.

If you're a console player like me you're pretty much boned when put up against a good helicopter pilot/gunner. There just aren't enough people on a team to focus on taking it down. It's something that really needs to be adjusted in my opinion. It's so insanely overpowered.

I agree, you get a good pilot/gunner combo and they're nigh impossible to get out of the sky. I was amazed when people bitched when they nerfed the air vehicles a bit but they still are complete match winners if a competent pilot gets in them.

I don't even bother trying to stinger any of them because my team never SOFLAMs and infinite flares is so fucking rage inducing. Can't even coordinate with another stinger because you lose the lock after they use the flares and by the time you've locked back on they've reloaded the flares.

I have taken down way more choppers by using the RPG/SMAW than any of the homing missile launchers.

Well I'm glad to hear other people sharing my frustrations. Now I don't feel so bad when I'm getting heliraped and in my head I'm screaming "This shit needs to be nerfed!" Next on the rage band wagon is the USAS 12 with 12g Frag...

Anyone who camps over the enemy base in a helicopter for the whole match deserves to get rammed with a jet. If you can get one up in the air, hit the afterburner and fly that hunk of metal right into him.

It does get pretty annoying. I think either the countermeasures regenerate too fast or the Stinger is just too slow. I can never hit any air support with a stinger because it's too slow and they always have flares to deploy. Usually by the time you load up another rocket, aim, and fire, they have more flares right as the missile gets close to them. Super frustrating!

@Voxel said:

I can never hit any air support with a stinger because it's too slow and they always have flares to deploy. Usually by the time you load up another rocket, aim, and fire, they have more flares right as the missile gets close to them. Super frustrating!

THIS. This drives me absolutely fucking insane.

I think it probably balances out in a PC server that is completely full of players. You want to give helicopters a chance not to get shot out of the sky the moment they go up.

In every other circumstance though the odds are stacked so high against you while trying to take a helicopter down. I know it's unreasonable but I wish there was a way for them to place more AA gun emplacements around the map when there is a smaller player count. At the very least they should have done that for the console versions to balance the playing field. Maybe even something like a tracer dart like they had in BFBC2?

On the bright side I am finding people are far more willing to cooperate during games to go after helicopters, now that people have witnessed the destruction they tend to hand out. Even if you don't end up taking it down you can harass it to the point where they lose their effectiveness. That would be my main tip for dealing with helicopters. Be aggressive and don't let the pressure off them.

I have found that, depending on how capable the pilot is, just holding the lock on will get them to shoot their flares, wasting them and allowing you a rocket hit

EDIT pilot not pirate

@Helimocopter said:

I have found that, depending on how capable the pirate is, just holding the lock on will get them to shoot their flares, wasting them and allowing you a rocket hit

Oh I do this every time. It still doesn't really help.

I don't understand why DICE didn't put in small arms fire damage to air vehicles. Somebody at DICE designing BF3 is against empowering players to do everything regardless of kit. Being helpless and dependent on others is simply less fun. Kits should be about varying proficiency, not complete and utter dependency. Even if I only deal .5% damage per hit, as long as I feel like I can fight back, I'm happy. Shitty stingers suck. Low, low skill ceiling with coordinated cooldown management being a foolproof countermeasure. Lame.

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

@Seppli said:

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

YES! I loved that about BFBC2 Vietnam. It was so much better. Battlefield 3 needs this badly.

I wonder if it was me flying?

I hate the balance of the choppers, lock on weapons are so lame, the AA tank will often lose to a good pilot and gunner, which is how it should be. But the issue it sounds like was your team, it is not easy to wreak the other team with an attack chopper, so it wakes me happy that there is success finally happening in them.

The real issue is scout choppers with repair guys, I went 50 and 0 with out a repair guy, that seems like they should not be so insanely good at making them invincible.

Attack choppers are not OP, they are under so much fire from all angles, jets are really annoying when you're in one, also, I have good luck killing them with the main gun on my tank pretty often. Also other choppers and AA guns. Try piloting one before you claim they need to be nerfed, just because a bad team gets wreaked by a good pilot and gunner dose not mean they need to make them even harder to use.

Stingers are dumb, I hate getting one shoted out of the cockpit in my chopper by some level 17 with no skill because the AA in the game relies on no skill.

BC2 had it closer to right than this game in my eyes.

Play BF2 where there wasn't an excessive amount of vehicles.

I drop choppers with the stinger all the time - I find the secret to be to hold off on shooting for a few seconds until they blow their flare load early.

The M98 or whatever the big sniper rifle is works well too

I usually take them out with the standard machine gun if I can come at them from a higher downward angle. I've noticed to the heat seekers never work on an experienced copter pilot. Also I really prefer the flankers to the f35's.

I did get to snipe a guy out of one with my shotgun/slug/7x scope once. It will never happen again.

A good chopper pilot (or jet pilot for that matter) is pretty much invulnurable.

They will smartly avoid emplaced base AA guns, mobile AA is no problem as it can easily be blindsided and destroyed in a single volley. Stingers don't mean shit, when a chopper pilot can flare/ECM it every second time and for the other ones either fly low/evade/or simply take the hit and repair. With 2 engeneers using singers in tandem maybe you can take down a decent chopper pilot, but not a jet. Soflam is the only thing that has a shot and even that requires about 3 people working together (soflam and 2 engees) to overwhelm the ECM + low flying. All the meantime the pilot can continue to rape your team while it occupies all the time of several people to take one down.

@big_jon said:

Stingers are dumb, I hate getting one shoted out of the cockpit in my chopper by some level 17 with no skill because the AA in the game relies on no skill.

What game are you playing? A stinger does less then 50% dmg to attack choppers, not enough to even force a repair. And that's even if a pilot is bad enough to get hit by one. Flares + lololol of using some terain to block lock on.

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

I drop choppers with the stinger all the time - I find the secret to be to hold off on shooting for a few seconds until they blow their flare load early

Those are bad chopper pilots. They arent the problem.

@Tennmuerti: You can get one hit out of the chopper by stingers, it is fact, and it is really annoying, also, the gunners flare don't even work half of the time.

Maybe learn what you're talking about before you deny my FACTS.

I would say half the time I die in a chopper it is getting one hit by a stinger and falling out of the chopper with full health.

I can't believe no one has said this yet.

AHEM...Use more skill.

The surest way to take out a chopper is with a jet. Even the best chopper pilot/gunner comp is no match versus a decent jet pilot. Just make sure you fly toward the chopper from an upward angle, don't fly toward a good chopper head-on or you'll get AA missiled/laser pointed.

@big_jon said:

@Tennmuerti: You can get one hit out of the chopper by stingers, it is fact, and it is really annoying, also, the gunners flare don't even work half of the time.

Maybe learn what you're talking about before you deny my FACTS.

I would say half the time I die in a chopper it is getting one hit by a stinger and falling out of the chopper with full health.

Can you direct me to proof of said fact or the confirmation of this bug?

This is the first time I'm hearing about it.

Have never actually had it happen to myself either when trying to take down choppers. A chopper with full health has never been one shot by my stinger.

@Tennmuerti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurZGNthT84

This dude brings it up in the video, near the end.

It one hits the pilot, leaving the chopper undamaged, it happens in Jets too.

@big_jon said:

@Tennmuerti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurZGNthT84

This dude brings it up in the video.

He gets shot by a stinger halfway through for only 45% damage.

At the end he says that you can get one shot by a stinger through a window because of netcode? I'm stil sceptical, theres isn't much difference between you saying it and some other dude saying it. Especially since I have not seen it hapen once during my 45 hours payed so far :/

Maybe it happens more frequently if you are playing with a lot of lag?

@Tennmuerti said:

@big_jon said:

@Tennmuerti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurZGNthT84

This dude brings it up in the video.

He gets shot by a stinger halfway through for only 45% damage.

At the end he says that you can get one shot by a stinger through a window because of netcode? I'm stil sceptical, theres isn't much difference between you saying it and some other dude saying it. Especially since I have not seen it hapen once during my 45 hours payed so far :/

Maybe it happens more frequently if you are playing with a lot of lag?

All Know is it happens frequently to me and my friends, I also have played a lot more than you and have racked up almost 1000 kills in attack choppers so it is just something that happens.

@big_jon said:

@Tennmuerti said:

@big_jon said:

@Tennmuerti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FurZGNthT84

This dude brings it up in the video.

He gets shot by a stinger halfway through for only 45% damage.

At the end he says that you can get one shot by a stinger through a window because of netcode? I'm stil sceptical, theres isn't much difference between you saying it and some other dude saying it. Especially since I have not seen it hapen once during my 45 hours payed so far :/

Maybe it happens more frequently if you are playing with a lot of lag?

All Know is it happens frequently to me and my friends, I also have played a lot more than you and have racked up almost 1000 kills in attack choppers so it is just something that happens.

I swear you have racked up thousand of kills in everything in this game. All you do on these forums is brag about how good you are at everything in this game, like a child who needs recognition from his parents.

-

On topic, most of the time, there is a never a missile in flight tone when using the javelin/soflam against choppers, so try your best to do that OP, it is the easiest way to take choppers down, that or get in your own chopper and get up real high and rain terror on them.

I recommend hitting that ramp.

@AlexW00d: Don't hate because I am pointing out facts, I was simply saying I have been in choppers ALOT, so I know that it is an issue because of that.

You don't need to try and insult me because I am simply offering evidence.

@big_jon said:

@AlexW00d: Don't hate because I am pointing out facts, I was simply saying I have been in choppers ALOT, so I know that it is an issue because of that.

You don't need to try and insult me because I am simply offering evidence.

I'm not hating, I am merely saying you don't need to brag about it when these things come up, it makes you seem like you're bullshitting, and people will be less likely to believe an arrogant prick. If you were to use actual reason/hypotheses for things instead of 'I AM GREAT THEREFORE CORRECT' this wouldn't happen.

I have also spent a lot of my play-time in helis - roughly 25% - so I know what you're talking about. It happens because the stinger hit close to the cockpit, the bit with the glass that damage goes through. I have sniped, and been sniped out of, chopper cockpits. It's not a bug.

@AlexW00d said:

@big_jon said:

@AlexW00d: Don't hate because I am pointing out facts, I was simply saying I have been in choppers ALOT, so I know that it is an issue because of that.

You don't need to try and insult me because I am simply offering evidence.

I'm not hating, I am merely saying you don't need to brag about it when these things come up, it makes you seem like you're bullshitting, and people will be less likely to believe an arrogant prick. If you were to use actual reason/hypotheses for things instead of 'I AM GREAT THEREFORE CORRECT' this wouldn't happen.

I have also spent a lot of my play-time in helis - roughly 25% - so I know what you're talking about. It happens because the stinger hit close to the cockpit, the bit with the glass that damage goes through. I have sniped, and been sniped out of, chopper cockpits. It's not a bug.

I think getting one shot out of the chopper through the glass with a Stinger is for sure a bug, I also think that the fact that the gunners flares work like half the time is also a bug.

I never stated I was great here to correct you, I was making the point that I have been in choppers for a long enough period to know that what I am saying is a fact, also that it becomes frustrating when trying to master the choppers.

I get annoyed when people who just started playing and have not mastered anything in the game start saying things are OP without actually trying them first, that is why I bring up stats.

To my original points, I feel that if someone has taken the time to learn how to play then they may criticize, that is how I feel, that is also why I hate the prospect of handing bad players a win button like the stinger used to be just because it's "Fair" to the new guys, someone who has mastered a skill in the game, be it sniping, tanking, flying or so on should not have to deal with a crutch simply handed to lower skill players in the interest of "Balance".

That being said I have not seen a match where the Attack chopper was dominating very hard yet, at least I have not received it yet, but I am usually in control of the AA tank if I need to be. The best I have managed as I pilot was about 24 kills in a row, that is nothing compared to what one can do with a Little bird, AA tank, MBT, or the attack choppers in BadCompany 2.

I would like to see the damage of the gunner VS. infantry reduced a bit, and the damage by the missiles to the infantry increased. I also would like to see something done about Little birds with repair guys in them. hey are nigh invincible, and I got fifty godamn kills in a row with one WITHOUT a repair guy. I am not even that good in the little bird and that Happened! I wish it was not so easy or nessesary to have a repair guy up your ass all game.

Pff, face it, helicopters own infantry. They're vulnerable enough IMO that they're fine as is. If you get two really good players and put them both in a helicopter with unsatisfactory jet pilots and AA gunners on the opposing team, then the helicopter duo SHOULD dominate the battlefield. But the same can go for skilled jet pilots backing one another up, or even a good tank/engineer combo. I've gone 20+ killstreaks in every class of vehicle with good teammates versus lousy or lone wolf opponents.

On hardcore today I shot our the pilot of one with my AN-94, it made me happy.

The only effective way other than luck is to overwhelm them with locks/MG fire, or hit them with the gun on your jet.

SOFLAM+Javelin

@TengoJuego said:

SOFLAM+Javelin

ECM

Duh, on my behalf. OP mentioned that. I failed to read thoroughly.

jedi mind trick jet to fly into there own chopper

seriously it happened to me was locking on a havoc with the javelin my buddy set up a soflam all of a sudden a jet smacks right into it and he gets two team kills we were laughing hysterically for 5 minutes afterwards

-__- really wish bf3 had a theatre mode

I recommend hitting that ramp.

@Seppli said:

I don't understand why DICE didn't put in small arms fire damage to air vehicles. Somebody at DICE designing BF3 is against empowering players to do everything regardless of kit. Being helpless and dependent on others is simply less fun. Kits should be about varying proficiency, not complete and utter dependency. Even if I only deal .5% damage per hit, as long as I feel like I can fight back, I'm happy. Shitty stingers suck. Low, low skill ceiling with coordinated cooldown management being a foolproof countermeasure. Lame.

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

they made it realistic attack choppers are amoured up to a 50 cal

either get in thee jet to kill

or get a guy to soflam for you soflam lock plus javelin is an insta kill on any air vehicle and flares dont shake the soflam lock

@SeriouslyNow said:

@nintendoeats said:

I recommend hitting that ramp.

The big ass one?

YO FIFTY!!!!

@spartanlolz92 said:

@Seppli said:

I don't understand why DICE didn't put in small arms fire damage to air vehicles. Somebody at DICE designing BF3 is against empowering players to do everything regardless of kit. Being helpless and dependent on others is simply less fun. Kits should be about varying proficiency, not complete and utter dependency. Even if I only deal .5% damage per hit, as long as I feel like I can fight back, I'm happy. Shitty stingers suck. Low, low skill ceiling with coordinated cooldown management being a foolproof countermeasure. Lame.

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

they made it realistic attack choppers are amoured up to a 50 cal

either get in thee jet to kill

or get a guy to soflam for you soflam lock plus javelin is an insta kill on any air vehicle and flares dont shake the soflam lock

Actually attack choppers get downed by small arms fire very often. It's the majority of choppers downed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Empowering the individual to fight back at all times, rather than making players completely helpless unless they get a key asset or spawn a specific loadout makes a lot of sense. Design that enables players to 'always do something useful' is fun to me. Being harrassed by a chopper with no means to fight back at all plain sucks. Even small arms damage as ineffective as .3% damage per hit, it'd still feel a lot better to me. Staring down a chopper with a LMG, guns blazing and winning? That's awesome!

@Seppli said:

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

YES! I loved that about BFBC2 Vietnam. It was so much better. Battlefield 3 needs this badly.

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Mahonay said:

@Seppli said:

BF:BC 1 and BF:BC 2 Vietnam handled air vehicles right. Small arms damage against air vehicles makes so much sense, it hurts me to see it done otherwise.

YES! I loved that about BFBC2 Vietnam. It was so much better. Battlefield 3 needs this badly.

No, it doesn't. With the draw distance of BF3 and the powerful guns and the jets and all the lock-on weapons, shooting at an enemy helo with a gun and damaging it is too much. They created a perfectly good anti-air system for infantry, start using it.

Which is?

Stingers? That's a joke. A flare or ECM drops that like it's hot. Then the heli pilot just stays out of your sight/range for a few seconds and is ready to go again. He has infinite uses, you don't have infinite rockets.

Soflam + Javelin? Sure it works on newbies that don't have ECM. Good pilots always roll with ECM and will do the above. Heck as much as I hate it see big_john's linked video for a pilot staying up the whole time even with constant locks.

2 Stingers/Iglas can overwhelm the flares if they stagger their shots. But that still requires 2 people working in tandem to bring down 1 dominating air. Usually because people don't stinger in a stagger fashion, it would take 3 engineers tryng to stinger a heli to get rid of 1 good pilot.

Currently the only practical way to bring down a good heli pilot is jets. And the only thing that can reliably bring those down witha good pilot is another good jet pilot. Because jets give less of a shit about javelin/stinger/AA then heli's. My point is helis aren't OP, jets are.