Why is Elizabeth a sex object?

#301 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -
@Mentalnova said:
@AssInAss said:

 


 Did a Photoshop to fix her bug/anime eyes.
Now she just looks weird. Her large eyes are fine, I don't see the problem.
#302 Posted by Landon (4132 posts) -
@Mentalnova said:
@AssInAss said:

 


 Did a Photoshop to fix her bug/anime eyes.
I think her eyes are that big to help convey the characters emotion better. Like what they did in Wind Waker. Also, this is an awful photoshop. You've gave her a butter face.
#303 Posted by BBQBram (2212 posts) -

@Mentalnova said:

@BBQBram said:

All the characters are stylized to high heaven and you people complain about a cartoony face? What? Look at every other Vox Member, those posters of Comstock, the projections of Fitzgerald, hell even Booker himself in the IGN reveal.

Where do you people get this shit? Did you think the original Bioshock had anywhere near realistic faces?

Have you even heard of Norman Rockwell? Fuck.

I wish they went realistic with all the Bioshocks... this Elizabeth takes it to another level with her eyes, I can't stop thinking how absurd they are.

Congratulations, you missed the point of aesthetics. The stylized characters in Bioshock and now Infinite are designed to fit the illustrative tendencies of the periods they are set in. Just like the architecture, politics, science, historical themes in the games; they are magnified and over-the top just so you can explore a more direct confrontation of certain archetypes and cultural developments within those worlds without it feeling jarring or silly. The notion of Frank Fontaine's final state is pretty silly and comic-book-y but in that context it felt real and made a poignant point on objectivism and the Rapture dream.

TL;DR: Ken Lavine is certainly writing with the depth of literature, thematics underline everything and because games are a visual experience with emergent narrative a possibility, every inch of the world and it's inhabitants is going to be stylized to fit the work's theme.

#304 Posted by CitizenKane (10506 posts) -

@Gizmo said:

Her cleavage is ridiculous, I cannot take anything she says seriously.

Hers isn't as ridiculous as a lot of other you see in video games nowadays, like with Dragon Age II that I am playing right now.

#305 Posted by Dallas_Raines (2146 posts) -

What the hell is wrong with big eyes? It fits her face.

#306 Posted by jayjonesjunior (1087 posts) -
@Ragdrazi said:
Yeah. We're stupid.  Her tits are about the size of her face.  Do you know a girl with tits the size of her face?   Let me answer that, before the kids start talking. No you don't. I mean, what would the harm be in having this woman just look like a woman. And not like two cantaloupes floating around.
Check the picture again, her head is huge.
Yes i have seen girls with tits the size of their faces but i've never ever saw a girl with such a big head.
#307 Posted by Hailinel (24272 posts) -

How dare game designers create characters with unrealistic proportions and dimensions. How dare they, I say!

*Wipes monocle with a fine cloth*

#308 Posted by Miningguyx360 (325 posts) -

Ken wants people to have an emotional connection with her. Bring them in with the eyes/tits then show us that there is more than meets the eye. If you see the gameplay she plays a pretty nice role so far. She is super powerful but still needs some help; I see nothing wrong with that.  

#309 Posted by actionTACO (498 posts) -

my favorite part of this thread is the fact that apparently everyone was too busy furiously googling "history of the corset" to ask why would a character that has been trapped and isolated from society would even bother wearing something like that.  
 
Hint: they wouldn't and the only reason she would is if some sexless, pudgy game designer went "hmmmm, whats most evocative of early 20th century americana... i know corsets, abe lincoln masks, and absurd cleavage! welp, time to get back to work on the curly mustache render." 
 

@Gizmo said: 
Her cleavage is ridiculous, I cannot take anything she says seriously.  
so you can't take large breasted women seriously? me thinks that perhaps you are the REAL sexist here, my friend.  
 
*strokes neckbeard and pours an other helping of mountain dew into a wine glass*
#310 Posted by onimonkii (2432 posts) -

why would a character that has been trapped and isolated from society bother wearing anything at all???

#311 Posted by Miningguyx360 (325 posts) -
@actionTACO: We found you 
#312 Posted by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@CitizenKane said:

@Gizmo said:

Her cleavage is ridiculous, I cannot take anything she says seriously.

Hers isn't as ridiculous as a lot of other you see in video games nowadays, like with Dragon Age II that I am playing right now.

photographic evidence
Online
#313 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

Why aren't you?

#314 Posted by Shinobiolium (7 posts) -
I suppose making Elizabeth attractive is a way to differentiate and endear her as a character. When I think of the splicers in the Bioshock world, i think of disgustingly disfigured men who want to tear me apart. From what we see of the new ones in the Bioshock: Infinite Demo, we can expect something similar. A character who is supposed to symbolize benevolence and compassion MUST be different than the other lunatics obviously, but not just with her character. Just like how movies tend to cast the more attractive actors/actresses, the game designers chose to make an attractive female lead because people subconsciously root for attractive people as a fact. That being said, I think their idea of attractive is pretty juvenile but so are many gamers. The majority of people that I know play Bioshock don't care for the metaphors, symbolism and other profound ideas, so perhaps neither do most of the market for B: I.
#315 Posted by actionTACO (498 posts) -

at this point, the games industry is like your embarrassing friend that works in IT and thinks wearing a fedora and cargo shorts is height of fashion. and all you can do is go "really? that's what you're going with?", but you don't really try to stop them because they think what they're doing is awesome and totally acceptable. 
 
"uh, elizabeth is totally a strong, female character! just listen to these sassy retorts! noooo, i don't see how emotionally fragile female that is only able to solve her problems with the help of a strong, aryan superman is a terrible and offensive trope. uh, women show off cleavage all the time! i don't see what the big deal is! would you rather the character be an ugly hag because that's what i am saying you're saying." 
 
and at this point you want to explain how explain how elizabeth wasn't conjured out of some void or based on a real person and her appearance is the result of deliberate (terrible) decisions made by them with no reasoning or thought other than "durr, i think it looks good. who cares if its yet another terrible portrayal of women in an industry awashed with terrible portrayals of women". maybe they should consider that its entirely possible to design a character that is aesthetically pleasing without being unnecessarily sexualized. 
  
but in the end,  you just roll your eyes at their childish line of thinking because you really just want to go to the party and you secretly hope your friend passes out after two beers before he can embarrass you further.

#316 Posted by George_Hukas (1317 posts) -
@onimonkii said:
why would a character that has been trapped and isolated from society bother wearing anything at all???
Judging what she is wearing at this point is really like saying Slave Leia was a slut.
Also, breasts are a powerful literary device.
 
@Hamst3r said:

Why does she have tits?

Tits in games are so cliché.

My pee-pee is hard.

#317 Posted by Levio (1784 posts) -

This thread is more offensive than that picture.

#318 Posted by TeflonBilly (4713 posts) -

Honestly, that bodice she's wearing doesn't fit to the rest of the games visuals at all. Back in those times, you were lucky if you caught a glimpse of a girl's games, let alone her cleavage.

Cover up, woman!

#319 Posted by Veektarius (4746 posts) -

The problem with her is her chin, not her breasts.

#320 Posted by Gerhabio (1977 posts) -

@AssInAss said:

Big eyes and big boobs
Anyone else not bothered by this? I'm not being feminist, it just is going to make it a lot harder to take her seriously.

That kinda sucks, if you are perceptive and caring enough as to notice and talk about how women tend to be treated disfavorably in our society you should be proud and say "Yes, this is a feminist issue". It's sad that so many people have taken on the popular misogyny-endorsed attitude that feminism is somehow negative (e.g. "it's a bunch of mad women who hate men and want to institute a matriarchy and castrate all of us") when we owe so much of the equality women enjoy to them and still need them (there's still no equal pay, we have American Apparel softcore pornography in advertisement, anime is a cesspool of heterosexual male fantasies of objectification, etc). Sorry if I read to much into that but I'm always saddened when people say things that sound like, "It sure is awful that women are consistently treated like second-class citizens --oh, oh, but I'm not a feminst, mind you!"

Now, about Elizabeth. This really made me sad and uncomfortable. When I saw it I thought to myself, "Ah, of course, money is more important than dignity". It might sound exaggerate but I thought it out of contemplation of the flagrant trend of hypersexualized women in video games and how it effectively reduces women to objects of allure. Yes, I am sure Elizabeth will be a great character with lots of personality, etc, etc but the fact stays that someone with power in the development of that game thought or said "It's not enough, she also needs to have big exposed breasts".

My girlfriend loved Bioshock and watched me play it through (she even passed it herself after) and was excited about the announcement of Bioshock Infinite. But when she saw Elizabeth I could see disillusion in her. As a feminist herself, it was both troubling and disappointing that an esteemed franchised resorted to exploitation of female sexuality. It's like developers effectively tell women, "NO, this is a (hetero) boys' club and your place here is only as an image for our enjoyment."

#321 Posted by honkyjesus (132 posts) -

At least she isn't voiced by Chobot.

#322 Posted by ShockD (2400 posts) -

Am I the only one who thinks she's underage?

#323 Edited by Frostwolf (21 posts) -

@Gerhabio said:

Big eyes and big boobs

@AssInAss said:

Anyone else not bothered by this? I'm not being feminist, it just is going to make it a lot harder to take her seriously.

That kinda sucks, if you are perceptive and caring enough as to notice and talk about how women tend to be treated disfavorably in our society you should be proud and say "Yes, this is a feminist issue". It's sad that so many people have taken on the popular misogyny-endorsed attitude that feminism is somehow negative (e.g. "it's a bunch of mad women who hate men and want to institute a matriarchy and castrate all of us") when we owe so much of the equality women enjoy to them and still need them (there's still no equal pay, we have American Apparel softcore pornography in advertisement, anime is a cesspool of heterosexual male fantasies of objectification, etc). Sorry if I read to much into that but I'm always saddened when people say things that sound like, "It sure is awful that women are consistently treated like second-class citizens --oh, oh, but I'm not a feminst, mind you!"

My girlfriend loved Bioshock and watched me play it through (she even passed it herself after) and was excited about the announcement of Bioshock Infinite. But when she saw Elizabeth I could see disillusion in her. As a feminist herself, it was both troubling and disappointing that an esteemed franchised resorted to exploitation of female sexuality. It's like developers effectively tell women, "NO, this is a (hetero) boys' club and your place here is only as an image for our enjoyment."

Sorry but no. Some people are proud of their opinions as individuals and dont want to be involved in some agenda. Sometimes you just want to speak from the heart without having the mucky mass of varying opinions that come from having a group behind an agenda. This whole 'media destroys womens self image' is bullshit in that its not any more prevalent then my daily bombardment of how i should look and feel about myself. The objectification of sexuality occurs on both sides, and while its prevalent more with men, thats in our nature. I don't hate women, i do hate feminism because i believe in humanism. I believe in equal rights while acknowledging each others true nature.

I think its sad that you and "Your" (as if you own her) girlfriend refuse to enjoy entertainment because of a design choice. You're as self limiting as over the top christians. I don't personally agree with smoking weed but i dont stop others from doing it and i still played the fuck out of drug wars on my ti-83. Not once has my personal attraction to the female figure caused anyone harm. If someone is effected adversely by a design choice in a video game or a magazine ad then they are exploited by their weak mind, not their gender.

#324 Posted by Stepside (509 posts) -

@Ragdrazi: Totally enjoyed that.

#325 Posted by Demoskinos (14730 posts) -

So pretty girls can't be taken seriously?

#326 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@Ragdrazi: Fuck that video.  I've had multiple girl gamer girlfriends since 1991.  All of them were from different race, country, age and wealth demographics.  If we're to believe the stupidity in that video then Hollywood movies and TV are aimed squarely at a male demographic which is, of course, bollocks.  Women also prefer to look at good at looking women when it comes to entertainment.
#327 Edited by Dogma (945 posts) -

It feels like everything has been said. I also thought that it was a corsett thing. To boot I also like her design and so does my girlfriend. Different strokes...as allways. People dig waaaaaay to deep about this. If you start to scavenge the net for historical information and such there is a big possibility that you 1UP the designers. It's easy to put on a extra layer of someones original idea but it's a whole other thing to make it from scratch. We don't know who holds her locked in and therefore we have no idea why she wears what she wears. Does it really have be THAT logical? Some people just tend to get way to picky.

And as someone said, it's sexualisation IF Irrational starts to linger the camera on her bust and stuff. I actually buy her looking like she does because it makes her easy to see and interpret from a distance, big eyes and body movement. I also want to leave you with a GREAT example of a FPS that took "make a sex object of her" to a new level. I give you Jurassic Park: Trespasser.

As long as Irrational don't go over the deep end like this I'm quite cool with how Elizabeth it portrayed.

#328 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

I think the people who refuse to play this game because of Elizabeth having some cleavage are taking things way too seriously, and should probably check yourself because, honestly, it's kind of sad.

#329 Posted by 49th (2722 posts) -

because god damn titties.

#330 Edited by believer258 (11775 posts) -

5 pages already? And I was busy watching the fucking Extra Credits episode on the first one.

On topic, it's called stylization. This is both why she has huge knockers and why Booker's hands are as big as her head. It's exaggerated. Bioshock has always had exaggerated character designs and this one is no different.

Also, some women just have gargantuan knockers. Massive mammaries. Terrific tits. Bombastic breasts. You get the picture.

EDIT: Nevermind, I thought this was a relatively new thread.

#331 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

I think she is purposefully designed to be somewhat disney-afied and other worldly almost. Tonally she seems to be in a dark fairy tale with the big monster that looks over her and the magic floating city she lives in.

Also she's designed for you to care about her. So why not have a cute innocent face. Perfect way to get to the "white knight" sensors in the brain.

#332 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

she looks like she's 12, but the type of 12 that shoots pellets in creepy gal shooters or whatever

YES LOOK AT ME I CREATE SOPHISTICATED GAMES

#333 Posted by Ragdrazi (2283 posts) -

This thread has just necrobumped my account back into existence. Which kind of makes me feel like I've caught some weird zombie STD.

#334 Posted by Ninja_Welshman (485 posts) -

Because god damn titties....

#335 Posted by ThePhantomStranger (354 posts) -

Necro'd thread just gave me a revelation. Why not try a real challenge and convince the player to care about character that looks as fucked up as a splicer?

#336 Posted by Brodehouse (9776 posts) -

I'm just going to list some simple truths and let people form a big picture.

1. People prefer to look at attractive people, of either gender.

2. It is difficult to make the difference between an unattractive character, and unattractive visual design. It is difficult to be able to spot intention.

3. When presented with unattractive design, the mind spends more time consciously viewing it, which can distract from the main thesis.

4. Sexualization is a two-way street. Both genders want to look good, and both genders' perception of 'good' is dependent on those they wish to attract.

5. Connected to that; women (straight) are attracted to men who are powerful and impressive. Men are attracted to women who make them feel powerful. Not a value judgement, just how it is.



So yeah. Elizabeth is going to be beautiful or adorable or sexy or whatever. Booker will be rugged or strong or imposing or whatever.

Are we going to have a thread about how it's unfair to villains that game designers always make them ugly?

#337 Posted by randomfella21 (60 posts) -

@Toms115 said:

same kind of deal with gears of war or uncharted: impossibly ripped or handsome dudes, yet nobody complains about that. it's a common problem in games, unfortunately. nobody wants realism. thankfully, our kindly overlords at Valve get it.

wassup alyx. you're perfectly realistic.

Man Alyx is seriously one of the best characters I have ever seen in a video game. The part at the beginning of Episode 2 where she gets injured just about gave me a heart attack at the time.

#338 Posted by Grillbar (1812 posts) -

i have no problem with her, to be honest i don care how she looks.

but lets be honest sex sells,

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