So this game just got ultra preachy all the sudden

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#1 Posted by sickVisionz (1268 posts) -

I'm out to rescue some bird and I'm about halfway through the quest and I've already been treated to the horror of animal experimentation, gay couples getting experimented on and forced to commit horrendous acts by a corporation, and religious people capturing children and then attempting to murder people who don't tithe. Essentially a raging left-wing atheist rant in video game form. I don't consider myself particularly religious or conservative, but this felt like a bit much in a game that's otherwise occupied with coining phrases like bonerfarts and trying to fit the word bad ass into as many places as possible.

#2 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@sickVisionz said:

I'm out to rescue some bird and I'm about halfway through the quest and I've already been treated to the horror of animal experimentation, gay couples getting experimented on and forced to commit horrendous acts by a corporation, and religious people capturing children and then attempting to murder people who don't tithe. Essentially a raging left-wing atheist rant in video game form. I don't consider myself particularly religious or conservative, but this felt like a bit much in a game that's otherwise occupied with coining phrases like bonerfarts and trying to fit the word bad ass into as many places as possible.

Once you leave that area it stops. I think its just them being extreme and funny. 
#3 Posted by nohthink (1223 posts) -

Yeah I noticed that, too. But I just took it as "Handsome Jack is a terrible person." I didn't think about it deeply. But I see where you're coming from.

#4 Posted by theoracleofgame (96 posts) -

I put a little less importance on those elements of the plot. It's kind of hard to feel motivated to discuss topics in a game that constantly shoves it's "bad-ass-ness" down your throat (for good and bad at different times).

#5 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

The more I hear about the insanity of Borderlands, the more I start thinking this game is going to be hilariously dumb. I can't wait to jump in.

#6 Edited by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

Er what?

All i got out of it was pandora is a fucked up place like usual and Handsome Jack is a nasty guy. People on Pandora get killed and tortured all the time regardless of their sexual preference. And expirementation is not only on animals but on humans, it's on everything. That't like calling out Claptrap Robot Revolution DLC a preaching agasint AI's, or Knoxx Armory as anti private militarty preaching.

Then again I rarely see the world in such colours and labels.

In other words: You are reading way too much into it dude. Especially in a game so full of nonsense and violence in the first place. imo

#7 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Tennmuerti said:

Er what?

All i got out of it was pandora is a fucked up place like usual and Handsome Jack is a nasty guy. People on Pandora get killed and tortured all the time regardless of their sexual preference. And expirementation is not only on animals but on humans, it's on everything. That't like calling out Claptrap Robot Revolution DLC a preaching agasint AI's, or Knoxx Armory as anti private militarty preaching.

Then again I rarely see the world in such colours and labels.

In other words: You are reading way too much into it. Especially in a game so full of nonsense and violence in the first place. imo

#8 Posted by Yummylee (21475 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Tennmuerti said:

Er what?

All i got out of it was pandora is a fucked up place like usual and Handsome Jack is a nasty guy. People on Pandora get killed and tortured all the time regardless of their sexual preference. And expirementation is not only on animals but on humans, it's on everything. That't like calling out Claptrap Robot Revolution DLC a preaching agasint AI's, or Knoxx Armory as anti private militarty preaching.

Then again I rarely see the world in such colours and labels.

In other words: You are reading way too much into it. Especially in a game so full of nonsense and violence in the first place. imo

This. That moment felt... weird... like all of a sudden the game wants me to care and feel about stuff. Handsome Jack and his violin brought things back to the Borderlands reality I know, though, which is pretty funny.

#9 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Yummylee said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Tennmuerti said:

Er what?

All i got out of it was pandora is a fucked up place like usual and Handsome Jack is a nasty guy. People on Pandora get killed and tortured all the time regardless of their sexual preference. And expirementation is not only on animals but on humans, it's on everything. That't like calling out Claptrap Robot Revolution DLC a preaching agasint AI's, or Knoxx Armory as anti private militarty preaching.

Then again I rarely see the world in such colours and labels.

In other words: You are reading way too much into it. Especially in a game so full of nonsense and violence in the first place. imo

This. That moment felt... weird... like all of a sudden the game wants me to care and feel about stuff. Handsome Jack and his violin brought things back to the Borderlands reality I know, though, which is pretty funny.

#10 Posted by Gamer_152 (14066 posts) -

Are you sure this is the game genuinely trying to impart some kind of political message, and not just a jumbled collection of horrific stuff Borderlands 2 threw at you for the sake of throwing horrific stuff at you and making you aware how evil the antagonist is?

Moderator
#11 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Gamer_152 said:

Are you sure this is the game genuinely trying to impart some kind of political message, and not just a jumbled collection of horrific stuff Borderlands 2 threw at you for the sake of throwing horrific stuff at you and making you aware how evil the antagonist is?

When OP gets to the end of the area he will see its the latter. 
#12 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

Are you sure this is the game genuinely trying to impart some kind of political message, and not just a jumbled collection of horrific stuff Borderlands 2 threw at you for the sake of throwing horrific stuff at you and making you aware how evil the antagonist is?

Yeah, this is how I felt when I played it. I don't think Gearbox is trying to push any sort of agenda with Borderlands, they just want you to be badass.

#13 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

This sounds like it will be the greatest mission in gaming history. I can't wait.

#14 Posted by wemibelec90 (1611 posts) -

That pair of gay couples in the audio log felt super tacked on to me when I heard it. It seemed fine when it was just the one couple at first (and I loved how nonchalantly it was mentioned) but when it was revealed that the scientist was gay too, it felt a little too forced.

#15 Posted by Jrinswand (1702 posts) -

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

#16 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

#17 Edited by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

Raging left-wing atheist rant? And the problem is...?

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

We seem to be in agreement, sir.

#18 Posted by Jrinswand (1702 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

#19 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

#20 Edited by bybeach (4772 posts) -

I haven't seen this mission yet. One thing I do get. Borderlands 2 does lightly try to develop their characters, a little. That means more than not at all. Thus you got a dysfunctional 'relationship' between a pretty tight Lilith and Roland who stumbles a lot or just doesn't react unless it's something he knows how to focus on or deal with. Tannis has Aspergers, full out admitted, intelligent and difficult. for herself and others. She likes Roland, not surprising. I feel the commando I'm playing is slightly at odds and blows it off by being somewhat an asshole.

Probably most apparent to me, handsome Jack just isn't a smarmy jerk, He does believe his own BS, a lot of evil people do. Maybe a little different than Jeff seemed to have saw him, though sure he runs at the mouth. I think Knox did a better job at conveying it..he had a bad side but an honorable one also. Handsome Jack just believes the end justifies the means, especially if it benefits his people. and Pandora I think in his eyes is full of nothing but 'bandits' anyway. Whole place can go to hell...Whole place is going to, I bet.

So a mission that goes a few places won't surprise me, especially if they run through the filters of ridiculously extreme and crazy. hopefully funny, ppl. have their opinions. I'm getting along w/ the game...

#21 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

yeah but on the internet the super smug raging left-wing atheist is the norm rather than the exception, thus they are way more annoying since I never see the super smug right wing christian unless I go seek it out.

AND technically atheists usually are wrong anyway since they can't really prove there isn't any god (I don't think there is but you can't be sure)

#22 Posted by PillClinton (3291 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@PillClinton said:

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

yeah but on the internet the super smug raging left-wing atheist is the norm rather than the exception, thus they are way more annoying since I never see the super smug right wing christian unless I go seek it out.

AND technically atheists usually are wrong anyway since they can't really prove there isn't any god (I don't think there is but you can't be sure)

Fair enough, but also technically, atheists simply believe there is no god, just as the religious believe there is, but they don't claim to have proof god doesn't exist. In fact, scientists, of which some 90% admit to being atheistic, will gladly prove themselves wrong time and time again, constantly in search of what is currently the best theory, based on evidence and evidence alone.

#23 Posted by Barrabas (326 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

@Animasta said:

@PillClinton said:

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

yeah but on the internet the super smug raging left-wing atheist is the norm rather than the exception, thus they are way more annoying since I never see the super smug right wing christian unless I go seek it out.

AND technically atheists usually are wrong anyway since they can't really prove there isn't any god (I don't think there is but you can't be sure)

Fair enough, but also technically, atheists simply believe there is no god, just as the religious believe there is, but they don't claim to have proof god doesn't exist. In fact, scientists, of which some 90% admit to being atheistic, will gladly prove themselves wrong time and time again, constantly in search of what is currently the best theory, based on evidence and evidence alone.

Hey, I have an idea. Why don't you guys take this argument to the off topic forums where it belongs, as it has obviously evolved into something that no longer has anything to do with the game.

#24 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3632 posts) -

@sickVisionz:

** ANIMAL EXPLOITATION PRESERVE SPOILERS **

All I got out of that part in the game was "wow, that's a crazy coincidence." You have the a woman who is forced into torturing a man, and then you find out that he is gay, and then you find out that SHE is gay too. I don't know what the percent of homosexuals is in the world of Borderlands, but if it's anything like earth, I would say that finding out both of those characters were gay was like finding an orange weapon, or perhaps just purple. Seemed kind of rare, but it didn't strike me as preachy.

As for the religious thing, people have been killing and controlling others in the name of God for ages. I'm a religious person, and seeing that sort of thing in any story doesn't seem insulting or preachy to me, just factually accurate. It also makes sense that--seeing as Sirens are thought of as god-like individuals--her story would involve her being worshiped, and her somehow rejecting that life to come to Pandora. Personally, I thought it was a cool back-story.

As for the game getting dark all of a sudden, the Slag echo recorder notes in that area were almost as dark as the ending to that mission, especially the last one.

#25 Posted by ShaggE (6403 posts) -

Reading too much into it.

Now, the anti chair torture overtones are a bit much. I'll torture my damn chairs all I like, Gearbox.

#26 Posted by Village_Guy (2538 posts) -

I thought the gay part felt a little forced, the rest just seemed like Borderlands being Borderlands while attempting to tell you that Hyperion is fucked up. I did end up liking Handsome Jack more after the boss though,with the whole EXPLOSIVE and violin parts.

#27 Posted by Robo (790 posts) -
@Animasta

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

It tends to be pretty easy to come off as smug when you're ranting against nonsensical bullshit.
#28 Posted by Asrahn (552 posts) -

@sickVisionz said:

I'm out to rescue some bird and I'm about halfway through the quest and I've already been treated to the horror of animal experimentation, gay couples getting experimented on and forced to commit horrendous acts by a corporation, and religious people capturing children and then attempting to murder people who don't tithe. Essentially a raging left-wing atheist rant in video game form. I don't consider myself particularly religious or conservative, but this felt like a bit much in a game that's otherwise occupied with coining phrases like bonerfarts and trying to fit the word bad ass into as many places as possible.

I have never heard a reaction like this from anyone else, so I would be prepared to call BS on the underlined, emboldened phrase.

It would be easier to pin down why you feel offended/bothered by the (arguably very whacky) game's attempts at creating an evil super-villain - because hey, the things they use to accomplish this would appear as genuinely fucking evil to most people, and the sad fact is that there exist or have existed shit like this in real life. My guess is that you're simply reading too much into it due to your own religious/political affiliation.

#29 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3055 posts) -

If there's one thing the game doesn't do, it's subtlety. I'd say it's leagues behind even the first game in that regard, especially with the way they handle Jack. I mean, the first thing you find about him is an audio log detailing him shooting Helena Pierce in the head and laughing about it. They go on to have him capture, experiment on, and kill Bloodwing (who they apparently changed into a female between games), had him reminisce on torturing Tannis, revealed that Angel was actually a Siren, his daughter, and that he'd had her locked up in a living hell for the last five years, and spends the rest of the game stabbing Lilith repeatedly for kicks until you get around to killing him. We get it, someone on staff has some repressed issues.

#30 Edited by MarkWahlberg (4599 posts) -

So you're saying that not only does Borderlands 2 have crass humor and an overt fondness for internet memes, but it also gets weirdly preachy in a little corner of the game? Is this like the game form of Reddit or something?

#31 Posted by morrelloman (608 posts) -

Game is about Guns and Loot, not ideals, not even a little. I think you are reaching, and way off base.

#32 Posted by BBAlpert (1430 posts) -

@wemibelec90 said:

That pair of gay couples in the audio log felt super tacked on to me when I heard it. It seemed fine when it was just the one couple at first (and I loved how nonchalantly it was mentioned) but when it was revealed that the scientist was gay too, it felt a little too forced.

My thought exactly. One gay couple seems like they're trying to show the world's populace as deeper and more diverse. Two gay couples, showing up in the same audio log, when there haven't been any other representations of homosexuality anywhere else in the game (that I know of), feels more like a mistake. Like the lines for that audio log were written with the assumption that the test subject concerned about the husband was a woman and the scientist concerned about their wife was a man, but the line didn't get changed when they cast the VOs.

#33 Posted by LikeaSsur (1509 posts) -

So I guess Tokyo Jungle is about the folly of man and how animals will eventually rise up to reclaim the earth once more?

The Mario series shows us the dangers of a monarchy?

The Darkness shows us the necessary evil that is the mob?

Homefront and Freedom Fighters are anti-deomcracy, seeing as communism takes over the rest of the world in both games, and neither one ends on a solid "Democracy wins" note?

Naughty Dog supports grave robbing, as shown by the Uncharted series.

Ubisoft is an anti-Christian, anti-British company, shown by the Assassin's Creed series.

What else could I blow out of proportion?

#34 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@LikeaSsur

So I guess Tokyo Jungle is about the folly of man and how animals will eventually rise up to reclaim the earth once more?

The Mario series shows us the dangers of a monarchy?

The Darkness shows us the necessary evil that is the mob?

Homefront and Freedom Fighters are anti-deomcracy, seeing as communism takes over the rest of the world in both games, and neither one ends on a solid "Democracy wins" note?

Naughty Dog supports grave robbing, as shown by the Uncharted series.

Ubisoft is an anti-Christian, anti-British company, shown by the Assassin's Creed series.

What else could I blow out of proportion?

THIS IS WHERE THE CARS LIVE!!' GET YOU ONE!!!
#35 Posted by punisherkaos (273 posts) -

I'm pretty sure your taking it to seriously I mean come on its borderlands

#36 Posted by Matiaz_Tapia (261 posts) -

Move forward in the story. Get to "Thousand Cuts". Find the psycho with an exclamation point.

He will explain Borderlands 2.

#37 Posted by Jams (2960 posts) -

@PillClinton said:

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

I didn't know forcing your way of life on people was supported by science.

#38 Posted by leftie68 (215 posts) -

I really don't know what type of opinion the OP was making, but either way, it is amazing how much flack this game is getting. And remember, it is just that...a game. It is a throw back to when games were just that...games. Fun, fantastical, dripping with bad humor (mostly on purpose), and ridiculous. But most importantly they were fun! In today's video game environment of Call of Duty, and attempts at ultra-realism we seem to lose focus on what games really are about...having fun and being entertained. Again, taking Borderlands as a whole, that mission really didn't say anything to me other than...hey Handsome Jack is a d**k, you should go kill him.

#39 Posted by dulmonkey (78 posts) -

I think all the serious stuff feels super out of place in this game. The first game didn't really have anything serious in it that I can recall. Any time this game tries to be serious and deep, the whole world gets really dark as a result. It makes the humor stuff feel way less funny. The humor works because the world so disconnected from anything real or grounded. Bringing the drama in really breaks that for me. If I want something super dark I'll just go play in the 40k universe.

#40 Edited by MikkaQ (10280 posts) -

Wow I didn't even notice. Was too busy shooting grenades out of a machine gun.

@Matiaz_Tapia said:

Move forward in the story. Get to "Thousand Cuts". Find the psycho with an exclamation point.

He will explain Borderlands 2.

Yeah that guy totally gets it. Maybe he realized he was in a video game or something.

#41 Posted by Arbie (1449 posts) -

Hey, what's the problem here? I'm yet to do this mission but if it draws at least the tiniest bit of attention to the shit that goes on in the real world then I'm behind it 100%. How about rather than seeing it as left-wing-preachy whatever else you said you look at it and think oh hold on a minute how much shit do I buy that contributes to needless animal testing? How many lives have been taken in the name of religion? Why am I torturing a gay guy? I really don't get what the latter part is about yet . . . I'm sure I'll find out soon enough!

But yeah, what is it with people rejecting things with a message.

#42 Posted by BBAlpert (1430 posts) -

@Matiaz_Tapia said:

Move forward in the story. Get to "Thousand Cuts". Find the psycho with an exclamation point.

He will explain Borderlands 2.

You're talking about the one near where you need to deliver the letter, right? Yeah, that quest really ties everything together and contextualizes the greater conflict in the game's plot.

#43 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@PillClinton: I think anyone that believes they are absolutely right about a belief comes off as smug. Also science is capable of being wrong too.

@bybeach: What were Jeff's views on Jack? Didn't he say he was 1 note? I got to a pretty significant part in the story. Robots are attacking a room with a bubble in it. It's a pretty big part of the story but...

Jack seemed to actually care about Angel. Normally he's a real cocky and jokey guy. But trying to get to angel he seemed a lot more angry, calling you a child killer an such. Angel says it's just him trying to make you feel guilty but I got this weird feeling that there was some sincerity there. If so thats a character I can have some sympathy with. I haven't gotten further so no spoilers but could that be the case?

@sickVisionz: I think your caring a little to much. It's entirely possible there is some agenda. But I don't really care because so much of the game is silly and centered around dark humor, which includes making fun of: torture, murder, aspergers, midgets, morons, vaginal excretions, boners, truxicans, greed, guns, and cults. Our heroes have missions where you experiment on animals. Characters like Tiny Tina and Marcus are supposed to be likable even though she also tortures people and Marcus shoots customers. Granted the guy Tina tortured wasn't innocent but still, it's torture. It's kind of hypocritical to say "look how terrible the villains are, they are just like the EVIL conservatives on Earth," when as the heroes you can do equally as terrible things, like killing for a religion, killing people for profit, or unloading acidic buckshot into a puppies face.

#44 Edited by Keavy_Rain (129 posts) -

@Nottle said:

@PillClinton: I think anyone that believes they are absolutely right about a belief comes off as smug. Also science is capable of being wrong too.

@bybeach: What were Jeff's views on Jack? Didn't he say he was 1 note? I got to a pretty significant part in the story. Robots are attacking a room with a bubble in it. It's a pretty big part of the story but...

Jack seemed to actually care about Angel. Normally he's a real cocky and jokey guy. But trying to get to angel he seemed a lot more angry, calling you a child killer an such. Angel says it's just him trying to make you feel guilty but I got this weird feeling that there was some sincerity there. If so thats a character I can have some sympathy with. I haven't gotten further so no spoilers but could that be the case?

@sickVisionz: I think your caring a little to much. It's entirely possible there is some agenda. But I don't really care because so much of the game is silly and centered around dark humor, which includes making fun of: torture, murder, aspergers, midgets, morons, vaginal excretions, boners, truxicans, greed, guns, and cults. Our heroes have missions where you experiment on animals. Characters like Tiny Tina and Marcus are supposed to be likable even though she also tortures people and Marcus shoots customers. Granted the guy Tina tortured wasn't innocent but still, it's torture. It's kind of hypocritical to say "look how terrible the villains are, they are just like the EVIL conservatives on Earth," when as the heroes you can do equally as terrible things, like killing for a religion, killing people for profit, or unloading acidic buckshot into a puppies face.

Regarding the spoiler warning, the relationship between the two is clearly spelled out. It also made me think Handsome Jack's character took inspiration from Repo: The Genetic Opera and that alone makes me happy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Repo!_The_Genetic_Opera_characters#Paviche_.22Pavi.22_Largo

Once you see Jack up close, you'll see it.

#45 Posted by plaintomato (598 posts) -

That bonerfarts bit was pretty funny...seriously laughed out loud.

#46 Posted by chilibean_3 (1633 posts) -

Eh, that's not preachy. They're just trying to established how fucked everything is. And, yeah, that world is fucked. Like, it was depressing going through that area. There is no good in that world, everything sucks. Murder and torture is everywhere. The game is a real downer sometimes.

#47 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@Keavy_Rain:

I called that a week before the game came out, I was looking at Jack and thought, "why is his face colored different from the rest of him." He must be a robot or have some horrible scars. I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO ANY REVEAL. But that's my guess.
#48 Posted by Keavy_Rain (129 posts) -

@Nottle: Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

#49 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

Is this really a surprise? I mean, Borderlands 1 was about George Bush returning to Connecticut and causing it to collapse into Mad Max insanity.

#50 Posted by DeF (4851 posts) -

I don't think you know what 'getting preachy' means.

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