@Nottle: I didn't read the spoiler, just haven't got there I think. Right now I'm a little off with the game cause I chose sides in a clan war. I wonder if I can just turn in to the origonal quest giver for starting the whole thing and call it quits. See if I can do that. Kind of like mentioned I killed somebody that I really didn't have anything against, and besides he sounds like scooter talks! Maybe same voice actor... At any rate I'm a bit perplexed about what I am really suppossed to do to finish the new quest...don't have to do every side mission....

@bybeach: Also about Handsome Jack, he repeatedly calls us (the Vault Hunters) the bad guys. He considers us just more bandits on Pandora messing with his plans.

Holy shit, it's like this game can't win. With the way people are digging to find shit wrong with the humor, now this. When I went through this section it didn't do anything but make me chuckle here and there and the gay scientist bit just made me ok " hmm, interesting" and continue shooting those annoying ass robots. I really see no lesson being pushed on anyone just gigging for a deeper meaning. Hell isn't this what people have been clamoring for? To have gay characters be not put in some weird spotlight and treated like anyone else?

How dare Gearbox insert this left wing propaganda into my 40-hour long love letter to 2nd amendment-loving gun collection, use of force to solve all problems, and the free market?!?!

Turnabout is fair play. See how dumb this whole thread is?

@Nottle said:

@PillClinton: I think anyone that believes they are absolutely right about a belief comes off as smug. Also science is capable of being wrong too.

I'd agree with you on that, and I never said atheists are absolutely right, but that they have modern factual evidence to back them up, as opposed to a ~2,000 year old book that's been translated and edited and re-edited and rewritten an absurd amount of times by corrupt kings and men in power. And if you'd actually read my comment, you'd have seen I never once claimed science isn't capable of being wrong--as a matter of fact, it's embraced. That's the beauty of the scientific method--it's actually willing to change and be flexible instead of rigidly holding on to old ideas that lack any sort of factual grounding in reality.

@Jams said:

@PillClinton said:

@Jrinswand said:

@Animasta said:

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

they're usually excessively smug?

Touche, my good sir. Touche.

But does excessive smugness denote wrongness? I'd argue that in addition to not always being present in such rhetoric, or "rants," excessive smugness is prevalent on both sides of that particular debate, and that "raging left-wing atheist" arguments are generally on the side of and supported by science, which is the very foundation of the technology that allows me to write this very sentence. /mouthful

I didn't know forcing your way of life on people was supported by science.

Oh come on now, man. That's an intentionally provocative comment and you know it. If anyone's forcing their way of life on anyone, it's the religious fundamentalists in this country, demanding god's name stay on our currency, trying to withhold personal liberties from people who aren't like them, taking away a woman's right to do what she deems appropriate for her own body, attempting to mandate Creationism as a pillar of scientific curriculum in schools, and in some cases, even attempt to remove Evolution from it, etc. If evidence and fact based observations as a basis of one's view of the world is forcing your way of life on people, then anti-intellectualism is prevalent to a truly frightening degree in this country, and apparently on the GB forums as well.

@PillClinton said:

@Nottle said:

@PillClinton: I think anyone that believes they are absolutely right about a belief comes off as smug. Also science is capable of being wrong too.

I'd agree with you on that, and I never said atheists are absolutely right, but that they have modern factual evidence to back them up, as opposed to a ~2,000 year old book that's been translated and edited and re-edited and rewritten an absurd amount of times by corrupt kings and men in power. And if you'd actually read my comment, you'd have seen I never once claimed science isn't capable of being wrong--as a matter of fact, it's embraced. That's the beauty of the scientific method--it's actually willing to change and be flexible instead of rigidly holding on to old ideas that lack any sort of factual grounding in reality.

True, thats all I was trying to say was that science can be wrong, but it can be amended and built upon. Just look at Newtons laws of motion. Had to be amended.

Just saying just because someone has support for their beliefs doesn't mean that they should be a jerk about it either. I'm fine with people believing whatever they want as long as they aren't assholes. Anyway BORDERLANDS.

@PillClinton: It goes both ways. All these politics are about is forcing someone to live the way they think is best. From abortion issues to fur is murder, let's blow up these research labs. Left wing right wing, they're both nutters. One does it for religion, one does it because that's what best for everyone and that's that. That's my point. I think you need to rethink things if you believe one side over the other because when you get down to it, they're both the same in the end.

Ron Paul 2012

Well, I never thought Borderlands "Bonerfarte" 2 would inspire people to talk about the rights and wrongs of religion (again). Live and learn

Edit: "Bonerfarte" sounds like a bad joke name for Napoleon, so I wont change it

@Jams: But they're not both the same in the end. That's the problem. They're two views of the world and society that couldn't be any less compatible. One embraces the old and rejects change in an exclusionary manner; the other does the opposite. Politics is only a part of this debate. It really comes down to philosophy and one's view of their place in the world. And spare me the patronizing "I think you need to rethink things." I didn't insult your intelligence with that, and it's no way to be taken seriously in a debate.

Well this thread has gotten stupid quickly.

@PillClinton said:

@Jams: But they're not both the same in the end. That's the problem. They're two views of the world and society that couldn't be any less compatible. One embraces the old and rejects change in an exclusionary manner; the other does the opposite. Politics is only a part of this debate. It really comes down to philosophy and one's view of their place in the world. And spare me the patronizing "I think you need to rethink things." I didn't insult your intelligence with that, and it's no way to be taken seriously in a debate.

My apologies. I have a pretty hard time getting my thoughts across in writing. I never was good at forming thoughts.

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

Nothing, that's what.

You seem really upset about this... let me play my tiny violin for you..

Who let the rabbits loose on this thread?

@mlarrabee said:

Who let the rabbits loose on this thread?

I suppose I did. I get riled up about these things... :\

I should point out that you should be thankful that most of your fellow Internet video games chaps are seemingly composed of liberal atheists. You do not want it any other way. Go to any conservative forums where they discuss either politics or religion, and you will see how much more depraved, filthy and slanderous their thoughts are. Be thankful. It could be much much worse.

@Jrinswand said:

Wait a second. What's wrong with raging left-wing atheist rants?

It's predicated on the same kind of intolerance it seeks to argue against?

@AuthenticM said:

I should point out that you should be thankful that most of your fellow Internet video games chaps are seemingly composed of liberal atheists. You do not want it any other way. Go to any conservative forums where they discuss either politics or religion, and you will see how much more depraved, filthy and slanderous their thoughts are. Be thankful. It could be much much worse.

Conversation with my dad

Me "If you think Obama is to terrible and that he's going to ruin the country, why don't you let him have another go for 4 years. That way if you're right at least you can say I told you so and you're almost guaranteed a republican president after that."

Dad "WE CAN'T! IF OBAMA WINS AGAIN HE'LL CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION TO ALLOW HIMSELF TO KEEP RUNNING! *MUMBLE* *MUMBLE* MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD *MUMBLE* *MUMBLE* "

Me "No he wont. Come on pop, he can't do that. That's crazy talk. You know how many people would rise up against some one who did that?"

Dad "NO MAN HE WILL, I'M TELLING YOU! IF HE GETS ANOTHER 4 YEARS, THERE WON'T BE ANOTHER PRESIDENT AND HE'LL RUN THIS COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND! IT'LL BE ALL OVER!"

Me "oh boy..."

Then he continues to rant on quoting crazy conspiracies he heard on some talk radio show.

@Nottle said:

@Keavy_Rain:

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

I called that a week before the game came out, I was looking at Jack and thought, "why is his face colored different from the rest of him." He must be a robot or have some horrible scars. I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO ANY REVEAL. But that's my guess.

Handsome Jack is the funniest and best character in the Borderlands universe. His continuous outbursts and interruptions at the beginning of the game made me laugh a ton. Until I met Tiny Tina, she cracked me up a lot too.

Calling it preachy is going to far, I think. It's a very surface-level satire that wears its subjects of ridicule on its sleeve. It's not trying to tell you anything, or push a various agenda even if the politics of the writers do end up showing through. It's just trying to be a goofy, dark comedy and it both succeeds and fails at that.

As a side note, good luck being taken seriously calling it a "raging left-wing atheist rant."