Dark Souls is a great game. Most gamers played it and were blown away by some of the unconventional situations that the game put players in, however, for Demon's Souls players, a lot of this stuff was old hat. I'm all for motifs, themes, callbacks, and homages, but I'm not a big fan of straight-up recycling scenarios.

With that said, here's a list of some shit I don't want to see in Dark Souls II.

1) A level consisting of precarious catwalks descending into a poisonous swamp. (Valley of Defilement; Blighttown)
2) A fight with a gargoyle during which another gargoyle joins in halfway through. (Maneater; Bell Gargoyles)
3) A room with endlessly respawning fetus enemies. (Maiden Atraea's pit; room before Nito fight)
4) A cutscene involving enemy gargoyles picking you up and thoughtfully carrying you to the next area. (transition between 3-1 & 3-2; transition between Sen's Fortress and Anor Londo)
5) An area with enemies that endlessly summon/resurrect other enemies. (Shrine of Storms's Reapers; The Catacomb's Necromancers)
6) Character you rescue despite obvious evil intentions, who then murders your useful NPCs. (Yurt, the Silent Chief; Knight Lautrec of Carim)

These things were all fun once, and cute twice, but I'm afraid all the charm would be wrung out of them on the third go around.

I'm all about being fair, so here's a couple things that I think should stick around in order to acknowledge the game's fine lineage.

1) A dragon guarding a bridge. (Red and Blue Dragons; Hellkite Dragon)
2) Patches kicking you into a pit, you dumb bastard. (4-2; Tomb of the Giants)
3) Crestfallen Warriors. (Crestfallen Warrior; Crestfallen Warrior)
4) NPCs who laugh with a sinister tone after speaking with you. (all the NPCs; all the NPCs)
5) Blobby Phalanx enemies because I think they're cool. (Hoplites/Phalanx; Phalanx)
6) Bird NPC you can trade with. (Sparkly the Crow; Snuggly the Crow)
7) Tiny animals you chase down and murder for crafting materials. (Crystal Lizards; Crystal Geckos)

Did I get something wrong? Is there a concept I want to discard that you hope is in every Dark Souls game ever? Do I want to keep something that you can't stand to ever see again? Are there any other Demon's/Dark Souls staples that I am forgetting? Feel free to chime in.

Puzzle bosses (Dragon God, Bed of Chaos). Not sure whether I want those to stay or go.

Good one! Bed of Chaos definitely needs to go, but Dragon God ain't so bad. I think this is all in the execution. I vote it should stay.

I don't know, I kind of liked the Gargoyle fight early in Dark Souls.

"Here's an easy boss fight for you...nope, just kidding! Fuck you!" I might be more accepting of it because I beat it the second time without many problems, though.

Not that I want the same trick repeated twice.

Man, screw the Bed of Chaos, I HATED that "boss".

As for things I don't want in the next game, I vote for really narrow pathways with two archers shooting anti-tank missiles at you being completely removed.

@cloudymusic: Puzzle bosses, when done right, can be really fun. So I'm not against it in principle.

Anyways, really like how swearing in thread titles are censored to "puppy" :)

@random45 said:

i never got the hate for anor londo archers honestly. i heard about them all before playing this game and i thought it was some crazy unbeatable death trap but it really wasn't very bad for me

I don't want them to repeat boss stuff again. The clever and interesting bosses have always been great and to rehash something would be awful.

However, getting rid of the sinster laugh almost everyone has would be AWFUL. It just makes it feel like everything and everyone is out to get you. It's great.

And i wouldn't mind a bridge dragon again. Go for it. Hell if i see a big bridge in DS2 i will absolutely expect a dragon to strafe that shit any second.

Puppy is only fun in thread titles when we troll people with it by changing their profanity!

@stonepawfox:

Yeah, it seems to be about a 50/50 split on people who found it manageable, and people who found it to be the hardest boss in the game - there's no middle ground.

I hated that part, and while I respect the fact that you could get through it easily enough, I REALLY hope there's nothing like it in the next game.

I hate the faceless demons. And all the more so because I thought if you killed them, they would at least be gone, the pain in the asses.. But the one before the Bed of Chaos reappears. The Bed of chaos I am not big on, either. Otherwise, I have no personal problem with most of what the OP listed as disliked.

@clonedzero: That's the trick though. Everybody knows there's going to be a fucking dragon on that damn bridge. It's up to From Software to find a way to be clever about how they introduce the scenario.

@mb:@amyggen:I actually self-censored. I thought everybody has been doing that on purpose. I guess I had too much faith in Giant Bomb's ability to cling to a ridiculous meme.

@stonepawfox: I agree. It seemed like just running straight for them was the obvious solution the first time I encountered them.

@believer258: See, the reason Maneater is one of my favorite bosses is that he's already hard as balls on his own. You probably fought him and died a couple of times before you got enough of a handle on the encounter to get his health that low, and then Demon's Souls is all, "nah, son" and hits you with the second Maneater. Two middling bosses just doesn't have the same effect for me.

I'm primarily talking about things that appeared in Demon's Souls and were then rehashed and included in Dark Souls (which I don't think the Prowling/Titanite/Faceless Demon was), but I agree that they aren't very enjoyable fights. I always feel like I'm cheesing them by getting in that blind spot that they can't hit you in, or killing them at range.

@spoonman671: I think they got away with it because of the few people who played Demons Souls in comparison to Dark Souls. I doubt we'll see direct rehash from DS to DS2.

Well let's see. I'd be okay with another place where you are slowed down and/or constantly poisoned so long as it's visually different from those two earlier places. An area where you have to wade through nearly waist deep water could be cool. The water would be murky so you couldn't see the bottom with enemies appearing from it before they attack you, maybe even sneak upo on you. Just so long as there would be no secret pitfalls, that'd be cheap.

I like the Bell Gargoyle fight honestly, I don't really remember Maneater 'cause I only fought them once. Not opposed to a double boss but maybe change the theme a bit.

The Reapers endlessly making more enemies where alright, I didn't even know that the skeletons stopped respawning after you killed the Necromancers for the longest time. They were more annoying because they kept respawning while chasing you instead of dissappearing and more being created at a spoecific spot. I don't mind the trope of endlessly coming at you enemies that can be cut off in some way though.

A Dragon guarding a bridge can definetly stay, just so long as it doesn't come up from behind you like in Dark Souls, or so long as it triggers early enough to burn the ground in front of you like the second bridge dragons in Demon's Souls.

Bird NPC needs to explain better how you trade with it, I only knew how it worked in Dark Souls 'cause I looked it up in Demon's. a simple "drop something good for me!" followed by acknowledgement when you dropped something could be enough. Snuggly only gives acknowledgement that you did something when you drop something that it doesn't want. The line when you drop something it wants should also be something like "thank you, see you next time!" or something else encouraging you to come back.

This time I want Patches to be completely trustworthy, only seeming suspicious. Instead you get a chance to kick him into a pit.

We are talking about the same boss, right? The stone gargoyle in Dark Souls right before you ring a bell? That gets a full-health buddy halfway through the fight?

I just used firebombs on him. Then his buddy joined and I lost focus and died. Then I grinded for souls and bought a ton of firebombs, went back up there again, and won the second time. It would have been an easy boss fight if the second guy hadn't joined, and even then it wasn't remarkably difficult.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't play Demon's Souls and didn't know what you meant by "Maneater".

I hope they overhaul the leveling system. I'm sure that as someone who only put 7 hours into the game my opinions aren't wanted around these parts, but I just found no incentive to keep going real quickly. In RPGs I want to feel like I'm getting more powerful when I level up and in that game I never noticed a difference from one level to the next. Even after hours of grinding for souls and leveling up 10+ levels I was no better off then when I was before and felt no big difference in combat. When a game decides to be like that then it needs to have a good story to fall back on if I'm to keep playing and Dark Souls does not have one.

All that said, I like Dark Souls in concept but if I ever pick up this game it's going to need some big tweaks to appeal to me personally and I don't see that happening as I doubt the fans of the game want the same thing as myself. And that's fine. Just my three cents on the topic of what we want to see.

Spoilers, you wont see the face of your character in DS2 at all, in the end you kick the last boss off the ledge, pull of your helmet and YOU ARE PATCHES

From playing the DS2 beta, I can confirm that necromancers are still in the game! They're also a pain in the ass still!

Yeah I gotta agree here, the Anor Londo Archers were not a huge deal. Just sprint up to the guy on the right, put up your shield and he'll fall off 95% of the time.

I had a friend who went through the trouble of getting a Fog Ring JUST for the archers. Kinda ridiculous hate on those guys.

Frame rate issues on consoles.

@crusader8463: When it comes to the upgrading system, gear and the upgrading of gear is more important (and quicker) than levels, even though some weapons really do get a big boost from points put in certain stats. It depends on the weapon.

The leveling in Souls games is a slow burn, yeah, and that's how it should stay because it is more of a supplement to the main attraction, which is the combat, than an integral part of your continued success like in other, less action focused rpgs. In fact, it's there to limit what equipment you have access to and determine your playstyle way more than it is about powering up your character.

If that ain't your cup o' tea that's fine, just letting you know how it works.

I hope they come up with more interesting trophies this time than "get all the weapons/spells/miracles" and "fully upgrade one weapon of each upgrade path" but I'm pretty sure they won't. Because those aren't enjoyable to get, they're just tedious grinding and checklist-management.

This is the only real answer. I don't understand how they could create a game that requires such precision and timing, and be ok with areas that suffer from such significant fps drops.

I wonder if these similarities between Demon's Souls and Dark Souls were present because it was the same director for both games. The change in the head of production could give us a radically different game. Personally I'm more interested in how they handle the lore in Dark Souls 2. I really like the world they've crafted in Dark Souls, and I'd hate to see them retcon a bunch of things, or even just make the story simpler in this iteration. If there were a few things I'd like them to keep, it would be:

1) A place where a light source is necessary to clearly see what's around you. (Tomb of Giants)

2) A massive, mostly underpopulated area that's not easy to find. (Ash Lake)

3) Something related to the Abyss. (Surely it will still exist in that world)

It's a good list. I was always really shocked when playing Dark Souls for the first time just how much they lifted from the previous game but it turns out not a lot of people played it.

people being incessant little shits when someone else's playing offends them. [/seewhutididthar]

Puppy?

Ohhhhh. Now I get it XD

Platforming sections like The Great Hollow need to go. The Souls games are terrible platformers.

@ripelivejam: YUUUUUUUUP.

Get rid of the repair system. It really doesn't seem necessary.

@pr1mus:

It's all about that tenacity son! Can't really disagree with the platforming being bad, but the souls games are all about weird and crazy shit you can discover for yourself. At first Great Hollow is terrible, but when you realize lizard respawn upon a reload it becomes a gold mine. Wouldn't want them to do the exact same thing again, but I like that not some of the more powerful items isn't just gained by beating bosses.

The only thing I really don't want to see in DS2 is a level like Blighttown. Something that's just made to piss you of from top to bottom doesn't make a good gaming experience.

@nux said:

If there's a fix to be made for that system I say either make repairing cost more again or lower everything's durability by a fair lot so you actually have a chance of running low on it. Durability is used as a way to limit the number of special attacks certain weapons can preform and Crystal Weapons can't be repaired. I think durability as it is now adds more than it takes away from the game.

No way, I love that area, the way you would drop down to get up. I was actually disappointed that there has only like "a" place in the game that required using the new running jump move. Of course there's the part where the jump basically never gets you over stuff, that would sorta need to be adressed.

@jacksukeru said:

But outside of special attacks and Crystal Weapons, durability really is a meaningless number. It was the same way in Diablo 2, where the durability only mattered on Ethereal weapons that couldn't be repaired. For a normal weapon, the repair cost is SUPER trivial, and there is almost no chance of you ever completely exhausting a weapon's durability. You're right, it doesn't take away anything from the game really, but it's pointless busywork for the vast majority of weapons at this point.

It would be interesting if they made durability another way to balance weapons. So you'd have really strong weapons that have low durability (but are repairable like anything else), so you either have to use them for the first few minutes once you leave a bonfire and then put them away in favour of a higher durability "workhorse" weapon, or you save your low durability weapon for a boss fight or tough encounter, using it as "the big guns".

I didn't realize that the title was censored, I thought it might be referring to lil sif from the DLC. Why wouldn't you want sif? But that's not what it was.

If there is another trader like Sparkly the Crow, I don't want to have to reload the game to get my item.

I don't want to jump with the evade button or with L3. They should let us remap the controls. I would map jump to Circle/B + Cross/A. I could easily press Cross with the lower part of my thumb. Or I would make L3 the interact button/pick up and Cross the jump button. It would be even better if the game had good mouse and keyboard controls (and interface) and the items were mapped to the number keys. I don't want to scroll through ten of them.

Whats wrong with puppies man?

Also i would love if there were no spells that homed in on you seemingly indefinitely (pursuers). It took me too long to figure out how to dodge those and the timing was so exact, any amount of lag would kill you.

Oh also, i would love if there was no lag.

Alright, I came up with another tradition of these games that I don't want to see in the next game.

Shitty networking. Teleporting backstabs have got to go.

No wheel skeletons. I don't care about anything else, just no freaking wheel skeletons or their equivalent.

Okay, yeah, though those Anor Londo archers are a pain in the butt.

If youre unlucky/have the wrong build for that bit you could easily end up doing that 30 times in a row.

Its terrible.

That won't happen simply because of balance issues, I think.

The archers in Londo are certainly tricky, but if you take the time to think a way up there and pay attention, it isn't so bad. Especially if you have a good shield, which you should at least have on your person for when you might need one.

Personally, I want as few repeats as possible. I want it to feel a bit foreign. Dark Souls was at it's best when it was surprising you, and when you overcame your surprise/shock and conquered those obstacles.

I think maybe they only thing I'd like to see go away, I want to see fewer "surprise, you're dead!" the first time you hit a point because there's no way to know it's about to happen./ I remember there being a few too many points where that happened to me without anything really interesting happening. At least make the death entertaining/awesome in some way.

I'm hoping the combat is more surprising and dynamic this time around. From what I played of the beta, the enemies were certainly a bit more interesting to fight. More aggressive and a bit less predictable. So that's really all I want. Surprise me, DS2! The beta is pretty much all I've paid attention to what is coming out about the game. I just want to dive in and explore.

I want all of these things in Dark Souls 2.

The only thing I can do without is a pure trial and error boss like the Bed of Chaos.

As far as repairing goes, From should just increase the costs to make it more meaningful.

This discussion about repairing reminds me... I don't want to be able to switch weapons and armor outside of bonfires. Three weapons per arm is more than enough. The acid spells and such wouldn't be so useless if the player couldn't take out ten other upgraded weapons and the game would be more about planning ahead. It's dumb that in the middle of a battle an opponent can remove his heavy equipment to be able to use an enormous sword unencumbered.

Invisible walkways. Granted, I eventually learned them to the pixel exactly and the community & I put a lot of messages as a guide.

another thing recycled from the previous games is the Crystal knight invoking a player to help him beat you! this was the old monk in Demons souls...

I do not mind them reusing some of the things that are useful and fun but that can be spoiled: knowing that Trusty patches WILL kick your ass if he comes back (although it will have to be spiritually since DS2 will be a long time after DS apparently) will be no fun...but knowing that a freaking dragon will show up as soon as you see your first bridge...makes the appearance even more savory!

I am for example torn as to whether i like or not the return of virtually all Dark souls armor sets almost unchanged...I just hope they will have added a lot of others!

and that...please no more of this crystal cave invisible crawl...

@spoonman671: The skeleton babies were awesome as was Yurt and especially Lautrec.

@sunbrozak: Ash Lake is amazing. A friend told me if I found it, then told me to look around an area for the entrance. The Great Hollow was interesting, but damn, Ash Lake's view is incredible. It felt lonely as hell, no messages anywhere that I saw, tiny sand bar to walk along...just...endless lake. Few enemies made it even better.

I'm disappointed by that. I want the game to look like it takes place hundreds or thousands of years after the first one, even if the technology is almost the same. After all my time in Dark Souls, I'm sick of the armors and don't want to put them on again when I start.