So, what did you think of the endings? (spoilers)

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#1 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Obviously, heavy spoilers ahead, you've been warned!

I finished the game today, seen all the endings, plan to get back to my second playthrough tomorrow. But anyway, what did you think of all the endings, which ones did you choose, and why?   
I went with Darrow's message, because i agreed with his viewpoint, and found him to be the most compelling of the bunch. I did think that human augmentation was too powerful, and that humans were careless with their use. My least favorite ending, although it's probably the cannon ending, was the one in which Adam destroys everything, including himself.  The whole reasoning behind that ending is that humanity is responsible and morally strong enough to take care of itself, and although that's true, the continued use of augmentation would only bring a lot more pain. Not only are augmented humans much stronger than "purists", but it would allow the Illuminati another grab for power, as shown in the Deus Ex.
Also, I went with a pacifist playthrough, are the endings different if you shot everything in your sight?
For those who've seen one ending  but, couldn't see the rest (for whatever reason), there's this brilliant user on youtube that uploaded all 4 endings, that guy is awesome, and you should all give him 5 bucks each. Nah, just kidding, he's kind of a dick! Anyway...
Darrow
  
  Taggart
  
  Sarif
  
  Jensen
  
Like i said, Darrow's message is my favorite, but when i watched all the endings, they all made some really interesting arguments and formed some very interesting views. I guess no ending is wrong here. It's really after watching the endings that I've realized how great a game Deus Ex: Human Revolution is, and how many choices there are in it. So, I'm interested in your opinions Giantbomb, what's happening? 
Also, stay tuned for a blog post relating to cyberpunk.
#2 Posted by Veektarius (4750 posts) -

I've only watched Taggart's ending. That was the one that best reflected my personal views.. except maybe for 'Jensen's Message' (I haven't seen it but I strongly considered going that way). I thought it was really well-done. I haven't decided if I should reload and watch the others or try them more honestly. I have the save for it and god knows I'm going to play the game once more at most.

#3 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10868 posts) -

I went with Sarif, because that's the one that I felt would best lead into the original Deus Ex, because hey, they aren't going to get to nano-tech by outlawing that stuff. 
 
Then I watched the other ones to get the Trophy for watching all of them. 

Moderator
#4 Posted by coaxmetal (1603 posts) -

I went with Jensen's (although I thought of it as Eliza's, not as Jensen's), It was ok. Seemed the best out of all of them after watching them. Sarifs does make the most sense for the next game, but then again, there is the after the credits thing so that's happening anyway...

#5 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -

They are the worst type of endings a game could have. These narrate over live action stock footage are fucking terrible. All the ending is this game are completely meaningless, except the one where adam dies. That one at least says "everyone died, the end."

#6 Posted by nomorehalfmeasuresdoctor (143 posts) -

Are they really not going to make sequels to this game. I highly doubt they spent all this money creating everything just for one game. Anyways, After everything that happened I'm still disappointed that Adam didn't get closure with Megan. If it never happens and this is a true ending with Adam dying then that's great. With no official guarantee of a sequel, as it stands right now it feels unresolved.

#7 Posted by Marz (5648 posts) -
@nomorehalfmeasures said:

Are they really not going to make sequels to this game. I highly doubt they spent all this money creating everything just for one game. Anyways, After everything that happened I'm still disappointed that Adam didn't get closure with Megan. If it never happens and this is a true ending with Adam dying then that's great. With no official guarantee of a sequel, as it stands right now it feels unresolved.

obviously there's a 25 year period between Human Revolution and the first Deus Ex game.  But most story points are already set in stone.  Sure they could probably make another Adam Jensen game while JC and Paul Denton are still kids, go deeper into corporate espionage.  But it's kinda hard to make a game that doesn't totally obliterate the timeline already crafted for the universe.   http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
#8 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -

I found all the endings to be a bit disappointing and contrived. Jensen's probably reflects my opinion most closely, then Sarif, though I'd quibble quite a bit with some of what they say. I guess any attempt to distill a response to the game to just four possible "messages" is bound to be disappointing, especially if you've spent a good bit of time thinking about these issues. So I expected more diverse options in the end, but they really aren't there. Oh well.

#9 Posted by nomorehalfmeasuresdoctor (143 posts) -

@Marz: That's why being a prequel/not remake it made me feel like the only choices that mattered were personal ones for Adam as the game couldn't let you change anything that will come to pass. We're not creating a future like in the Mass Effect games for example. I have Deus Ex but I've never played pass the first level so I don't know how it it ends or really anything about the plot of the game. I'd still rather see a continuation of that story unless it ends in a definitive/satisfactory manner.

#10 Posted by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

My personal favorite was Jensen's ending. The fact that this ending seems like cannon just overrode all personal bias. :)

Plus of course the last ending after the credits.

As for the other 3 ending, they are all a bit too pushy with their goals and morality imo, not the endings themselves but what they mean for the world. Sarif's ending is a lie and pushing his own agenda as well as progress at almost any cost. Darrow's ending reeks of the dark ages, it's too aggressive in it's denouncing of science. And obviously the Illuminati one is kind of bullshit, not due to what it preaches but due to the assumption for the need of one controlling power, societal control is easily achievable without.

#11 Posted by Weltal (2272 posts) -

Not a fan of a bunch of random video clips as my reward for finishing the game. Seems really lazy and kinda boring. Definitely a disappointment for me.

#12 Edited by Liquidus (946 posts) -

I prefer Jensen's ending. I think it really sets up and alludes to what happens in Deus Ex the best out of all of them. Although I'll admit the way they handled the endings in this game were so mechanical and contrived, it made the impact of each message much less meaningful. Seriously, the final action is push a button to view an ending? Total bullshit. It should have been at least somewhat like Deus Ex 1 were you have to commit to an ending at least 20 mins before it's over.  Or better yet, take into account how you've played the game and your actions/decisions you made and have them reflected in the ending.

#13 Posted by clumsyninja1 (817 posts) -

I trhough it was kinda lazy putting a bunch of FMV's as the endings but I love the BOB cameo after the credits. Hopefully a sequel on the future

#14 Posted by Infininja (881 posts) -

I didn't like it, but I've never liked an ending to a Deus Ex game. The manner in which you get a particular ending (literally "here, which ending do you want?") and the endings not even showing the consequences, just talking about what should happen because of your choice are poor ways to handle it. You never see what happens to any of the characters with each ending (Adam, David, Megan and the others, but most importantly you don't really get to see your effect on the world. Plus, it seemed to me there were at least two more choices. Be an asshole and keep the signal going, just walk away (which could have even been a choice available earlier) or shut down the signal and then do nothing. Don't kill everyone in the facility, don't send out a particular message. Let everyone keep fighting and debating about it.

#15 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@nomorehalfmeasures said:

We're not creating a future like in the Mass Effect games for example.

You're not crafting a future in Mass Effect, either. 
 
I chose Sarif's ending, and I don't really know why. I know I just didn't want to kill Adam Jensen, but the whole after-the-credits things feels like it negates anything that happened before it.
#16 Posted by nomorehalfmeasuresdoctor (143 posts) -

@Napalm: Well, since none of the Mass Effect games are prequels to an existing timeline that need to match up, it is the present and therefore your choices can actively change how things end up. Unless you are referring to the reality and scope of how much things could change vs what Bioware promised, well that's a totally different discussion. The fact remains that we don't know how things will end up in the Mass Effect universe whereas Deus Ex exists.

#17 Edited by Luccaface (218 posts) -

They were all terrible in my opinion. I wanted to see how Detroit, Hengsha, and all the major characters fared in the aftermath of each option, not a bunch of narration over real life stock footage. You really can't get much more detached from the rest of the game than that. Also, the fact that each choice had its own physical button was just ridiculous. A simple dialogue prompt from Eliza would have sufficed.

The Megan storyline was really unsatisfying as well. I wanted to know what she knew about Jensen's parents, White Helix, and Versalife. Was she working for Bob Page before she knew Jensen? I mean, she discovered that Jensen's DNA was special, but it's never really explained what prompted her to check his DNA in the first place or why she had to keep it secret from everyone. And in the end when Jensen's finally in a position to demand answers, Darrow conveniently triggers the kill switch, so Jensen has to go and she doesn't have to explain anything. Great.

Overall, the story kinda sucked. It felt like I was always waiting for the game to reveal what I already knew. Like the fact that Jensen was Megan's Patient X, that she was still alive, and that Darrow was actually a major bad guy. Even Eliza being an AI didn't surprise me. The first conversation with her in the Picus office, along with the eBooks about AI, give it away way before you meet the "real" her in the basement. Plus, I kinda got a NG Resonance vibe from her right from the beginning.

I also found it strange that in the game augmentation has progressed to the point where people can basically replace their entire body, yet apparently regulation is just recently becoming a major issue. I thought the Illuminati were opposed to rampant augmentation because it upsets the balance of power. Tons of people seem to be augmented though. How did it get to this point if they've been the ones secretly controlling the world and public opinion?

#18 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Woah, reading this a lot of people seem to be missing the point...or I am. The endings aren't really there to bring closure or "wrap things up" , they're a look into human nature. Hell, the entire game is a look into human nature, with awesome gameplay, concepts and atmosphere as bonuses. 
@Tennmuerti
Darrow doesn't denounce technology, just augmentation.

#19 Posted by Giantstalker (1611 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming said:

Woah, reading this a lot of people seem to be missing the point...or I am. The endings aren't really there to bring closure or "wrap things up" , they're a look into human nature. Hell, the entire game is a look into human nature, with awesome gameplay, concepts and atmosphere as bonuses.

I agree with you on that. It's about how he thought and what he believes, personified in one of three different people (and one, perhaps more nihilistic option). Them being clipshows is kind of a weak way to do it, but in terms of meaning I thought it was a fitting way to end the game. I also thought the entire push-button conclusion was a tad bit mechanical but at least they try to explain it.

Some small part of me wanted to see the game end back at his apartment building though...

#20 Posted by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming: on a personal level yes, but on a global his message will severely cripple progress

#21 Posted by demell (10 posts) -

I think you're all missing the point of these endings and so really didn't pick-up on a subtle aspect of this game.......the emotional response and attachment your supposed to get while playing it. While the combat mechanics, in-game animations and voice acting weren't great compared to other games (though everything felt distinctly Deus Ex) the world that was created in dialog, atmosphere, and overall morality made you connect to this game. That's why these endings are clips because in the end they don't care about the choice itself or the physical outcome of the one you make but the personal outcome and how your actions will effect everyone, with the images of each clip doing a great job of showcasing the major points of Jensen's speeches. 
 
Plus there is no way to have actually achieved an ending through the actions taken in the game if you really think about the choices you got to make. No choice you made in the game actually effects the ending. You could have killed the terrorist in the first mission or not it wouldn't have effected anything. Killed the drug lord or not doesn't matter. Paid the girls aug debt, got the money, or took back her chip means nothing in the long run. This game did an excellent job of choices but in the end its a linear storyline of trying to find out just what was going on, who are the major players, what are they're ideas and then choosing. 
 
Personally I loved the button options for choosing the ending for one reason........it made it feel like I had power to choose anything right there and then. If the ending had been based on merely the unimportant choices I made in the game that ending would have felt overdone and forced. But with the buttons I am literally the avatar of destiny and it brings a more contextual feel to the ending then simply having to replay the entire game to get a new ending. Is it a cheap way to get a trophy, sure, but it fits with the attitude of this game and its approach to showcasing Adam's struggles. 
 
On a final note, I don't think the developers have to stay true to the timeline established in Deus Ex or Invisible War in any way. Yes this was termed a prequel but that doesn't mean they can't continue the series down another timeline path. I'm not saying they should remake the other two games (I think we all agree Hollywood has soured our taste for remakes) but they can continue with this series and have all new characters going through completely new stories. So what if we don't get JC and Alex. We can still get a game with a nano augmented main character and his/her stories and so on and so on. The majority of Human Revolution players probably never played Deus Ex or Invisible War (I didn't, I looked up the games and the stories just before playing HR) so be true to those titles simply for hardcore fans I think will cause them to lose an opportunity to make a great series.
#22 Posted by ronin00 (28 posts) -

Random generic voice-over, done to random stock footage....not really my thing. I wish the choices I made affected what end, and there was not choice at the end to just pick any of them.

#23 Posted by ShaneDev (1696 posts) -

I liked them and thought they were pretty good look at each side of the debate and I assume the canon ending was Jensens. I thought it very odd that they didn't resolve anything about Jensens past though and the stuff with Megan was never explained either. I also really didn't like the after credits surprise other than seeing more of Bob Page.

#24 Posted by BrainSpecialist (554 posts) -

@kingzetta said:

They are the worst type of endings a game could have. These narrate over live action stock footage are fucking terrible. All the ending is this game are completely meaningless, except the one where adam dies. That one at least says "everyone died, the end."

I agree. The endings are the worst I've ever seen, it's almost as bad as 'germs suddenly killed the aliens lol'. Did they run out of money on that terrible last boss fight, or in creating a floating city above Shanghai that you never visit??? What is that bullshit?

Seriously, worst endings ever. Not only did they not show any consequences for Adam's actions, but they play two minutes of hackneyed bullshit. When I started seeing the arctic ocean, I was hoping they'd at least have another poorly rendered cutscene to show me. But alas, no. We were deprived even of that. How anti-climactic.

#25 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -
@BrainSpecialist said:

@kingzetta said:

They are the worst type of endings a game could have. These narrate over live action stock footage are fucking terrible. All the ending is this game are completely meaningless, except the one where adam dies. That one at least says "everyone died, the end."

I agree. The endings are the worst I've ever seen, it's almost as bad as 'germs suddenly killed the aliens lol'. Did they run out of money on that terrible last boss fight, or in creating a floating city above Shanghai that you never visit??? What is that bullshit?

Seriously, worst endings ever. Not only did they not show any consequences for Adam's actions, but they play two minutes of hackneyed bullshit. When I started seeing the arctic ocean, I was hoping they'd at least have another poorly rendered cutscene to show me. But alas, no. We were deprived even of that. How anti-climactic.

I'm beginning to regret this  thread.
#26 Edited by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

People focus on the ending as a simple concept of a payoff video at the end of the game.

That to me is just incredibly ... crude.

I personally loved how Human Revolution concluded, because for me the ending began when Jensen threw back her own words at Zhao Yun. And the entire chain of events that followed. Finding Megan, Darrow's action, understanding why he did it while getting to him, talking to the father of Human Augmentation, the flight, the chaos at the station, witnessing Panchaea, resisting the temptation to just mow everyone down at the end, the self serving views of Saris and Taggart, the quantum(?) computer, and especially that last hack, oh that last hack. And finally tying in the story of Human Revolution back into the original Deus Ex, both in terms of the ending choice and the last bit after the credits. As if that was not enough, I waited a bit more, and the music began to play ...

It was almost a feeling of euphoria when I finally closed the game.

So it's sad that others get hung up on little insignificant aspects like the explanation of the other choices at the end. They are but parts of a greater whole.

#27 Edited by tarquinbb (25 posts) -

i really didn't understand the ending... and what's the final boss supposed to be?
 
a couple of floating turrets and a couple trash guys that get killed by lightning on floor...
 
to me, it all seemed like "shoot this until it dies, now hack this thing, now shoot that thing, now pick an ending".
 
the endings are:
 
a)  be sarif's b*tch and tell his greed and power motivated story
b)  be taggarts b*tch and tell the world that technology is bad
c)  speak the truth, darrows ending.  which should place blame on the illuminati/global authority and not 'technology'.  even though the ending stupidly goes on to blame technology.
d)  kill yourself and make your investigation a complete waste of time.  also, how is killing the innocent people on the station meant to be better than what darrow was doing when you interrupted?  lol
 
what luccaface said - i want to know what happened to the characters and game world.  is adam meant to be romantically involved with megan? is adam happy that it's all over? what are pritchards and/or malik's thoughts?
 
the pick of endings is no different than eidos montreal sending us a fortune cookie saying "you choose ending A - you showed loyalty to your boss right to the end.  well done!"

#28 Edited by Luccaface (218 posts) -

I don't want to beat up on the story too much (I actually really enjoyed the game), but now that I've been thinking about it for a while, I don't think any of the ending options really make much sense.

Darrow's message: Something about a full confession that will make the world reject augmentation -- Wasn't triggering the kill-switch on live TV confession enough? Also, everyone on earth with the new biochip just went murderous apeshit. I don't think the public will be embracing augmentation anytime soon regardless of what message you choose.

Sarrif's message: Blame Humanity Front and continue augmentation research unregulated -- Ummm... Darrow just took responsibility on live TV. Even if the public was stupid enough to believe it was Humanity Front, they'd be crazy not to support tougher restrictions after what just happened. This ending is simply not plausible.

Taggart's message: Blame it on tainted neuropozene and ensure stricter regulations on augs -- Again, Darrow just pulled the trigger on TV for everyone to see. Why even try to lie about the neuropozene when it's obvious only people with the new biochip were affected? Stricter regulations will be inevitable at this point anyway.

Self-destruct: Let the world decide the future of augs for itself -- I'm not really sure what the logic is here. Darrow's kill-switch has dramatically swayed public opinion already. What difference would killing Jensen and a few world leaders really make?

I don't know. Maybe I missed something, but even if they made sense the differences between the choices seems entirely moot.

#29 Edited by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@Luccaface said:

The Megan storyline was really unsatisfying as well. I wanted to know what she knew about Jensen's parents, White Helix, and Versalife. Was she working for Bob Page before she knew Jensen? I mean, she discovered that Jensen's DNA was special, but it's never really explained what prompted her to check his DNA in the first place or why she had to keep it secret from everyone. And in the end when Jensen's finally in a position to demand answers, Darrow conveniently triggers the kill switch, so Jensen has to go and she doesn't have to explain anything. Great.

Megan didn't know anything about Jensen until Sarif began doing the background check. After that if she knew anything it is only what Sarif has told her. She never knew or met Page until after the credits. The DNA was initially taken when it was needed by Sarif to check up on Jensen. It was kept secret for several reasons A it's kind of a big deal B they took it from Jensen and experimented on it without his consent, illegally. The explanations are there when you are connecting the dots, not everything needs to be spelled out.

Overall, the story kinda sucked. It felt like I was always waiting for the game to reveal what I already knew. Like the fact that Jensen was Megan's Patient X, that she was still alive, and that Darrow was actually a major bad guy. Even Eliza being an AI didn't surprise me. The first conversation with her in the Picus office, along with the eBooks about AI, give it away way before you meet the "real" her in the basement. Plus, I kinda got a NG Resonance vibe from her right from the beginning.

This information is there for the player to find out beforehand by design. It's not supposed to be a big reveal for people who try to find things out, but catch up those who didn't. And reward those who did with a "ha I knew that"

I also found it strange that in the game augmentation has progressed to the point where people can basically replace their entire body, yet apparently regulation is just recently becoming a major issue. I thought the Illuminati were opposed to rampant augmentation because it upsets the balance of power. Tons of people seem to be augmented though. How did it get to this point if they've been the ones secretly controlling the world and public opinion?

Firstly almost no one can do the whole body replacement. Jensen and the 3 spec ops dudes are the only few who even had it done to them, they are basically running around with prototype tech. Most people reject even the most basic augmentations. They are prototype tech for all intents and purposes. No one else in the game is as heavily modified. Even the Blacktower experimental soldiers are still mostly human.

The Illuminati were never opposed to augmentations, they are only opposed to loosing control. Augmentations started spreading like wildfire through private and public corporations. Illuminati did the smartest thing they could. They fought fire with fire, they couldn't stop the tide so they adjusted things to work for them, their main aug company TYM started absorbing all the others, eventually reaching the point we see it at at the end of the game when practically only Sarif Industries stands against them. And they were about to play their final hand after all the maneuvering, achieving total control.

Plus you can never fully control public opinion or change it outright. Even with Picus and an AI like Eliza it is still only nudging and adjusting things over a period of time, trying to steer them in a direction. Not to mention Eliza has only recently been developed and the dual goal of Picus was also for the telecommunication satellites.

@tarquinbb said:

what luccaface said - i want to know what happened to the characters and game world. is adam meant to be romantically involved with megan? is adam happy that it's all over? what are pritchards and/or malik's thoughts? the pick of endings is no different than eidos montreal sending us a fortune cookie saying "you choose ending A - you showed loyalty to your boss right to the end. well done!"

It doesn't matter what happens to individual character. What matters is the course of human history.

Adam was involved romantically with Megan before the game starts at which point they have broken up. This was made pretty clear in the beginning if one payed attention.

Happy that it's all over? How is that even a thing. He is a part of a huge global change, it's not going to just stop and be over (if he isn't dead) He makes a choice what choice it is and how to feel about it is up to the player and therefore Jensen at that moment his choice is your choice his feeling is your feeling on what is right/wrong.

@Luccaface said:

Darrow's message: Something about a full confession that will make the world reject augmentation -- Wasn't triggering the kill-switch on live TV confession enough? Also, everyone on earth with the new biochip just went murderous apeshit. I don't think the public will be embracing augmentation anytime soon regardless of what message you choose.

Darrow triggered the madness, he did not yet send out a message or name the parties responsible. Nobody outside of the main parties ha a clue as to why it happened or who is to blame. And yes you are correct, regardless of mesage the headlong rush of progrss in human augmentation has been efectively slowed down. His message ensures that it is one so to a more extreme degree.

Sarrif's message: Blame Humanity Front and continue augmentation research unregulated -- Ummm... Darrow just took responsibility on live TV. Even if the public was stupid enough to believe it was Humanity Front, they'd be crazy not to support tougher restrictions after what just happened. This ending is simply not plausible.

Darrow has ties to Humanity Front as can be seen in various titbits through out the game, like the Picus network emails. Eliza can easily paint him as a suporter or at least swayed by them

Taggart's message: Blame it on tainted neuropozene and ensure stricter regulations on augs -- Again, Darrow just pulled the trigger on TV for everyone to see. Why even try to lie about the neuropozene when it's obvious only people with the new biochip were affected? Stricter regulations will be inevitable at this point anyway.

Darrow didn't specifically trigger anything on TV, he just said, here is what happens. At which point people wnt apeshit. You have to remember that so did others around the world. When you have that kind of apidemicgoing on, people quickly stop focusing on their TVs and ratertry to survive or take advantage of such situation with riots. Basically you have chaos. It can also be said that Darrow was responsible or had a hand/knowledge in the tainted supply.

Self-destruct: Let the world decide the future of augs for itself -- I'm not really sure what the logic is here. Darrow's kill-switch has dramatically swayed public opinion already. What difference would killing Jensen and a few world leaders really make?

It would prevent them from trying to adjust the message for their own ends. Basically denying anyone either of the endings they want, denying access for other parties to the hybrid supercomputer (and not just parties inside the station, but also those that might want to use it after)

#30 Posted by Vendetta (438 posts) -

I went with Jensen's, self-destructing and all. I think Jensen died the day Sarif was originally attacked. The only thing that kept him going was getting to the bottom of the conspiracy. I think the character would have chosen the way I went as well.

#31 Edited by Luccaface (218 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

Megan didn't know anything about Jensen until Sarif began doing the background check. After that if she knew anything it is only what Sarif has told her. She never knew or met Page until after the credits. The DNA was initially taken when it was needed by Sarif to check up on Jensen. It was kept secret for several reasons A it's kind of a big deal B they took it from Jensen and experimented on it without his consent, illegally. The explanations are there when you are connecting the dots, not everything needs to be spelled out.

I see the dots. I just don't think they connect as well as you do. Why didn't they just tell Jensen when they found out about his past? It's not like background checks are illegal. Sure he might have been upset, but at least their years of resulting research would have been legal. Assuming he consented, which I believe wouldn't be a problem considering he's willing to work security for Sarif Industries in the first place. Worthwhile to ask at least, if they were just going to do it illegally anyway. And It just seems incredibly contrived to me to think that Megan, the world's preeminent augmentation scientist, just happened cross paths with Jensen and his unique DNA, which was apparently engineered by White Helix, a subsidiary of Page's Versalife. I think it's much more likely that she was in cahoots with some shady organization before they met. According to one of the emails, she spent her twenties in France, which if you remember from the first game is where Majestic-12 (Page) and the Illuminati (the DuClares) have a strong presence.

@Tennmuerti said:

This information is there for the player to find out beforehand by design. It's not supposed to be a big reveal for people who try to find things out, but catch up those who didn't. And reward those who did with a "ha I knew that"

That information is very hard to miss. And like I said, makes the story really predicable.

@Tennmuerti said:

Firstly almost no one can do the whole body replacement. Jensen and the 3 spec ops dudes are the only few who even had it done to them, they are basically running around with prototype tech. Most people reject even the most basic augmentations. They are prototype tech for all intents and purposes. No one else in the game is as heavily modified. Even the Blacktower experimental soldiers are still mostly human.

The Illuminati were never opposed to augmentations, they are only opposed to loosing control. Augmentations started spreading like wildfire through private and public corporations. Illuminati did the smartest thing they could. They fought fire with fire, they couldn't stop the tide so they adjusted things to work for them, their main aug company TYM started absorbing all the others, eventually reaching the point we see it at at the end of the game when practically only Sarif Industries stands against them. And they were about to play their final hand after all the maneuvering, achieving total control.

Plus you can never fully control public opinion or change it outright. Even with Picus and an AI like Eliza it is still only nudging and adjusting things over a period of time, trying to steer them in a direction. Not to mention Eliza has only recently been developed and the dual goal of Picus was also for the telecommunication satellites.

There were a lot of heavily auged people in Heng Sha, but I guess they were just gang members with stolen tech. Point taken.

And as far as all your responses to my critiques on the ending go(sorry I'm getting sick of quoting everything), I just find it a BIG stretch that people couldn't figure out Darrow triggered the event, and I don't think it's possible to convince me otherwise. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. Anyway, my point still stands that the net result of all the endings is the same. The damage is already done so there isn't much need for anyone to adjust the message now. As for the supercomputer, surely there's better ways to destroy it than getting yourself killed in the process.

#32 Edited by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@Luccaface said:

@Tennmuerti said:

Megan didn't know anything about Jensen until Sarif began doing the background check. After that if she knew anything it is only what Sarif has told her. She never knew or met Page until after the credits. The DNA was initially taken when it was needed by Sarif to check up on Jensen. It was kept secret for several reasons A it's kind of a big deal B they took it from Jensen and experimented on it without his consent, illegally. The explanations are there when you are connecting the dots, not everything needs to be spelled out.

I see the dots. I just don't think they connect as well as you do. Why didn't they just tell Jensen when they found out about his past? It's not like background checks are illegal. Sure he might have been upset, but at least their years of resulting research would have been legal. Assuming he consented, which I believe wouldn't be a problem considering he's willing to work security for Sarif Industries in the first place. Worthwhile to ask at least, if they were just going to do it illegally anyway. And It just seems incredibly contrived to me to think that Megan, the world's preeminent augmentation scientist, just happened cross paths with Jensen and his unique DNA, which was apparently engineered by White Helix, a subsidiary of Page's Versalife. I think it's much more likely that she was in cahoots with some shady organization before they met. According to one of the emails, she spent her twenties in France, which if you remember from the first game is where Majestic-12 (Page) and the Illuminati (the DuClares) have a strong presence.

If Illuminati knew at all where the DNA came from it would have been logical for them to capture Jensen at the same time, or at any time during the 6 months he has been under if Megan told them at any point. It would have incredibly accelerated their research. The team sent after Megan and scientist simply killed him outright.

As far as can be seen Megan thinks Darrow is against the powers that kidnapped them, which is why she trusts him. (also confirmed by internal emails not just from what she tells you)

And also no one still knows where the DNA came from. (except her and Sarif)

#33 Posted by Rhaknar (5939 posts) -

a bit preachy but at the same time some powerful messages (and images) so i enjoyed them

#34 Edited by Luccaface (218 posts) -

@Tennmuerti: Like I said, that's just really contrived.

I also typed up a long response quoting your other points in the big post, but it didn't show up for some reason. I really don't feel like typing it all up again. Sorry.

EDIT: its showing up there now.

#35 Posted by tarquinbb (25 posts) -

i think some people are being overly defensive of the blotchy story.
 
i didn't want to have to guess or debate the point of the story.  i want to know what happened...  my playthrough is completely vague with no logical sense of closure... and like the ending of 'inception' i'm left wondering.
 
maybe some people like that.  but i for one think it's lazy, cliche and typical of the low standard dross that comes out of hollywood these days.

#36 Posted by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@Luccaface said:

And as far as all your responses to my critiques on the ending go(sorry I'm getting sick of quoting everything), I just find it a BIG stretch that people couldn't figure out Darrow triggered the event, and I don't think it's possible to convince me otherwise. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. Anyway, my point still stands that the net result of all the endings is the same. The damage is already done so there isn't much need for anyone to adjust the message now. As for the supercomputer, surely there's better ways to destroy it than getting yourself killed in the process.

I'm not really arguing that people don't know that he triggered it. It's pretty obvious he is involved. Just that this action can be molded into different things. Like I said before, you can make him look in cahoots with Humanity Front, hence Sarif's agenda. Or you can tie him to bad Neurophysine shipments. And I also agreed with you that yes damage is indeed done already. The point of the endings is how to channel things from that point on.

The supercomputer controls and is tied to the entire facility, it is the only thing keeping it from collapsing to colossal and constantly shifting pressure, since the Panachea has an immense surface area, unlike a closed in submarine.

@tarquinbb said:

i didn't want to have to guess or debate the point of the story. i want to know what happened... my playthrough is completely vague with no logical sense of closure... and like the ending of 'inception' i'm left wondering.

This made me laugh. :)

#37 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -
@tarquinbb said:

i think some people are being overly defensive of the blotchy story.  i didn't want to have to guess or debate the point of the story.  i want to know what happened...  my playthrough is completely vague with no logical sense of closure... and like the ending of 'inception' i'm left wondering.  maybe some people like that.  but i for one think it's lazy, cliche and typical of the low standard dross that comes out of hollywood these days.

Dude, again you missed the point. I feel like i have to write to people every time someone says that they dislike DE:HR , not because they dislike it (i mean you can create something amazing and 6 billion people might like it but you can always find someone who doesn't) but because of the reasons of why they dislike the endings. If you take a look at Deus Ex you'll find that the story is (obviously) revolved around Adam Jensen and the people around him, but just like in the original game, the story focuses more on the world and universe of Deus Ex, and the consequences of a character's actions, rather than the characters themselves. I thought the endings were amazing and well placed.
  • Darrow's ending warned of the great power, and danger, of technology, and how humans often misuse it.
  • Sarif's ending portrayed humans as imperfect, and as striving to reach perfection (posthumanism) 
  • Taggart's ending was more closely tied to the conspiracy theory tradition of Deus Ex, and perhaps even more so, it showed that absolute freedom=anarchy and chaos. 
  • Jensen's ending was perhaps the most optimistic, it showed that humanity as a whole is good, that every human has the potential to be good and do good deeds, but unfortunately that doesn't always happen. No matter what, Humanity's good will outweigh the evil.
You just can't look at Deus Ex as solely a game that focuses on one character or characters. It's not Mass Effect you know.
#38 Posted by Luccaface (218 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@Luccaface said:

And as far as all your responses to my critiques on the ending go(sorry I'm getting sick of quoting everything), I just find it a BIG stretch that people couldn't figure out Darrow triggered the event, and I don't think it's possible to convince me otherwise. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. Anyway, my point still stands that the net result of all the endings is the same. The damage is already done so there isn't much need for anyone to adjust the message now. As for the supercomputer, surely there's better ways to destroy it than getting yourself killed in the process.

I'm not really arguing that people don't know that he triggered it. It's pretty obvious he is involved. Just that this action can be molded into different things. Like I said before, you can make him look in cahoots with Humanity Front, hence Sarif's agenda. Or you can tie him to bad Neurophysine shipments. And I also agreed with you that yes damage is indeed done already. The point of the endings is how to channel things from that point on.

The supercomputer controls and is tied to the entire facility, it is the only thing keeping it from collapsing to colossal and constantly shifting pressure, since the Panachea has an immense surface area, unlike a closed in submarine.

Ok, I think we're just repeating ourselves now. Sarif's goal of unrestricted research is simply not plausible anymore, no matter how you spin what happened. And I still don't see why Jensen and a bunch of innocent people have to die to destroy the Hyron Core. It's not like the goofy self-destruct button is the only way to trigger a collapse. And it's not like Darrow's confession, whatever it contains, is going to actually rid the world of augs or the Illuminati. I think logically, Taggart gets his way no matter what, even without lying about the Neuropozyne. Honestly, I think all this multiple endings business is just a bunch of fan service for fans of the previous games.

#39 Posted by Giantstalker (1611 posts) -

@Luccaface said:

Ok, I think we're just repeating ourselves now. Sarif's goal of unrestricted research is simply not plausible anymore, no matter how you spin what happened. And I still don't see why Jensen and a bunch of innocent people have to die to destroy the Hyron Core. It's not like the goofy self-destruct button is the only way to trigger a collapse. And it's not like Darrow's confession, whatever it contains, is going to actually rid the world of augs or the Illuminati. I think logically, Taggart gets his way no matter what, even without lying about the Neuropozyne. Honestly, I think all this multiple endings business is just a bunch of fan service for fans of the previous games.

To a small degree I'd say you're right, but all three are simply forms of damage control depending on what you consider the "damage" to be - Sarif's option is a lot better for companies developing augmentations than any of the others, but it's not a total solution. The damage is reputation and public trust. What happened to potentially millions of people still occurred, but the lashing out won't be nearly as severe as the other options. Darrow's confession would dramatically curtail augmentation and hinder the Illuminati, but not outright destroy either. And Taggart's option is perhaps the most realistic but fundamentally it's no different from the others, it just passes the blame elsewhere.

The multiple endings were justified by the fact that you saved Eliza, and "she" basically controls the media - as a favor, or perhaps because she really is in no place to judge (considering what she is), you are given the last choice of how the story goes out. Once again though i will agree, the dial-an-ending button room was pretty hokey. The final battle, too, was just weird and confusing.

#40 Posted by Creamypies (4059 posts) -

I actually quite liked the endings in this game, even if it seems like I'm in the minority. I just really liked the script for each of them, Adam's words are really touching. Interestingly enough, he also makes a valid argument for each choice, none of them felt like the "bad" or "good" ending.

I went with Jensen's message. I felt like that was the most humane thing that Adam could do in that situation. Let the people decide for themselves, don't try to sway them with a particular message.

#41 Posted by project343 (2816 posts) -

Really enjoyed all of them. I obviously went with every ending for the achievement, but my concrete choice is Jensen's. It felt the most appropriate.

#42 Posted by Jimi (1126 posts) -

I liked all of the endings and chose Sarif as the one I personally agree with. All of the points people raise are totally valid, yeah it may lead to abuse of power and that sort of thing but I couldn't bring myself to limit the amazing technology that exists in that game. If I was going to go for a different ending it would have been Taggart's.

One thing I didn't understand in the game though was the sudden appearance of the human augmented machine, otherwise known as the last boss. It came so out of the blue that it took a minute to even see what was going on there. Maybe I missed some emails or personal secretaries that explained that but it's my only complaint with the game.

#43 Posted by Luccaface (218 posts) -

@Giantstalker said:

@Luccaface said:

Ok, I think we're just repeating ourselves now. Sarif's goal of unrestricted research is simply not plausible anymore, no matter how you spin what happened. And I still don't see why Jensen and a bunch of innocent people have to die to destroy the Hyron Core. It's not like the goofy self-destruct button is the only way to trigger a collapse. And it's not like Darrow's confession, whatever it contains, is going to actually rid the world of augs or the Illuminati. I think logically, Taggart gets his way no matter what, even without lying about the Neuropozyne. Honestly, I think all this multiple endings business is just a bunch of fan service for fans of the previous games.

To a small degree I'd say you're right, but all three are simply forms of damage control depending on what you consider the "damage" to be - Sarif's option is a lot better for companies developing augmentations than any of the others, but it's not a total solution. The damage is reputation and public trust. What happened to potentially millions of people still occurred, but the lashing out won't be nearly as severe as the other options. Darrow's confession would dramatically curtail augmentation and hinder the Illuminati, but not outright destroy either. And Taggart's option is perhaps the most realistic but fundamentally it's no different from the others, it just passes the blame elsewhere.

The multiple endings were justified by the fact that you saved Eliza, and "she" basically controls the media - as a favor, or perhaps because she really is in no place to judge (considering what she is), you are given the last choice of how the story goes out. Once again though i will agree, the dial-an-ending button room was pretty hokey. The final battle, too, was just weird and confusing.

That's basically what I've been trying to argue. They're all the same. The severity of what Darrow has already done overrides whatever trivial differences exist between the each option.

I think you're right that Eliza being an AI justifies presenting you with a choice. I hadn't thought of that. Although it still does feel like fan service to me for the above reasons.

#44 Posted by Tennmuerti (8059 posts) -

@Jimi said:

One thing I didn't understand in the game though was the sudden appearance of the human augmented machine, otherwise known as the last boss. It came so out of the blue that it took a minute to even see what was going on there. Maybe I missed some emails or personal secretaries that explained that but it's my only complaint with the game.

It's foreshadowed in some emails, diaries and also when Darrow mentions it somewhere (can't recall atm) what would be required to control Panchea

#45 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

I waited a bit more, and the music began to play ...

I like how the entire credit sequence led up to that. A great payoff for finishing the game a chilling through the credits.

#46 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

i liked sarifs message the most. it makes the most sense in context with the rest of the game, and series.
 
i really dont understand why anyone thinks killing everyone is any good, it makes no sense. in fact it'd divide the world even more, with a massive situation like most augmented people going nuts and hundreds of thousands of people dying, they'll want answers. never get any. it'd be a huge problem. people would take sides with no way to confirm who's right or wrong. just chaos. 
 
taggart's message puts the illuminati in control, the people you've been fighting against the whole game, so that makes no sense.
 
darrows is alright, but still.

#47 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -
@Tennmuerti said:

@Jimi said:

One thing I didn't understand in the game though was the sudden appearance of the human augmented machine, otherwise known as the last boss. It came so out of the blue that it took a minute to even see what was going on there. Maybe I missed some emails or personal secretaries that explained that but it's my only complaint with the game.

It's foreshadowed in some emails, diaries and also when Darrow mentions it somewhere (can't recall atm) what would be required to control Panchea

theres ALOT of foreshadowing in the game, which i really appreciate too. when exploring the TYM building, you can find all sorts of info regarding the new biochips. you also see those outfits the girls in the computer at the end are wearing inside zhaos office in a display case. the crazy radioguy starts talking crazy about how the new biochips are gonna make you do stuff.  they werent trying for unexpected twists, they were trying to have you figure things out before they happen. which it did a great job with.
 
ironically enough, theres no deus ex machina in this, its all laid out way before hand, clues scattered all over the game for every major event.
#48 Posted by BrainSpecialist (554 posts) -

@TheDudeOfGaming: You seem to be missing why people don't like the endings - they're terrible endings. There's no payoff in terms of story, gameplay, or even basic eye candy and explosions. I even would've felt better with the game just ending and going straight to credits, but it's the hackneyed cliches about corporations, and the government, and how some people are better off, and how we need to remember that we're all human in the end, and blaaaaaaaarghghg.

I imagine whoever wrote the script for the endings thought that the lines sounded prophetic or profound, and that maybe people will look back upon this game in the future and go "See?! I was right!", but seeing as it has all been said before, and better, this is doubtful.

The original Deus Ex managed three endings, one which was just a man talking to a box, and it still managed to be a better conclusion to the story than all the stock video and photos that Human Revolution can put into a montage.

Above all, the biggest problem is that one word - conclusion. There is no conclusion to this story. The developers ask you to make what they set up to be a massive decision - one which will determine the future for mankind - and they reward you for making such a momentous decision with cliches and a terribly edited montage.

And you wonder why people don't like the endings?

#49 Posted by MysteriousFawx (382 posts) -

I disliked that the endings all came down to a simple press of a button, even the original gave you unique goals to complete to achieve your desired outcome. However considering 3 of the endings consist of worldwide news reporting and the other is suicide, it'd be difficult to give them real goals.

As for what ending I picked (obviously I watched all of them) it had to be Jensens. I'd like to think that after all he'd been through, the realisation of everyone pushing their own agendas on him would just lead to an overall view of 'fuck you guys...seriously'. Thats how I felt, all of those guys were just....dicks. Sarif felt like the only one with any credibility, even if it was filled with lies. Technology must advance, with something so dangerous theres bound to be mistakes but it doesn't mean you should essentially force it on the world. An NPC mentions it early in the game how 'human advancement' seems to have advanced him to unemployment because he couldnt afford it....cant wait for the real world to deal with something like this...

Either way, I liked that canon can in some way continue from all endings, even turning the world against technology still shows the augmented arm glowing, a nice touch.

#50 Posted by TotalEklypse (1000 posts) -

As much as I can be a dick. I somehow always end up with the noble endings. 
 
I took the path out and brought that whole mother down. Was the only right choice from what I saw.

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