The Case For Final Fantasy VII - Why A Remake Is Needed

#1 Edited by KaosAngel (13764 posts) -

Sup bitches (and whores),

I was a diner last week eating up some tasty grits with a buddy of mine, and some how our conversations came up onto what games we have been playing lately.  As some of you have heard, PSN is down, and it's living proof that Xbox 360 is the best console ever...I'm joking.   Anyway, we started to talk about what games we have been playing, and much to both our surprises we were both playing Final Fantasy VII in bits and pieces.  My buddy was doing it with his original discs, I was doing it over the PSP/PS3 using the fancy remote play.  It's pimping.

Now before I begin, Final Fantasy VII has always been my least favorite one due to the idiots who make up the fanbase.  I just got sick and tired of their bullshit cosplay, fanfictions, and absurd theories...and I also feel FF7 is whored out.  It's a fucking whore that gets fucked for a quater, it's like the game is Square's Enix number one prostitute and a sure fire way to get some money.  Wada dresses up FF7 in some slut dress, fuck me boots, and lipsticks that bitch so she can get fucked by the fat fucks who masturbate to Tifa and Yuffee every night.  Maybe too graphic, but hey...a point has to be made.  
Let's ignore all the side stories, the movie, and the whore-iness of the game...let's just focus on what Final Fantasy VII is.  It's a damn good JRPG, it's proof that large scale JRPGs can be made, and the living legacy of the days when Squaresoft was considered the very top of the top.  Here's what Final Fantasy VII is:

  • Well structured story, Cloud's amnesia wasn't a cop out, you saw the affects of how badly one man could ruin the world, and how corporate greed could kill the very fibers of life.  About Cloud's amnesia, it was needed for the plot...and when you figure out the twist, it changes your entire opinion of him.  He didn't get amnesia because he hit is head, he did it so he could hide in his shame.  He viewed himself as a failure and his burden of living was due to the sacrifice of someone greater.  Then we have the corporate subtext, no kings or queens...a modern tale of how corporations are the new rulers of our world.  Finally, the idea of pure evil...a man who is willing to go to any lengths to end the world, his revenge for what the world did to him.  
  • Solid Battle System, love it or hate it...but the truth is the Materia system works and it's still the best system out there compared to all other Final Fantasy (except FF12IZJS...still think the job system there is better).  The Materia system can easily make the jump to the future without losing the foundation of the game...or what the hell, just tell Nomura to put FF7 in the V13/KH engine.
  • Minigames, side quests, things to do, and a fucking world map.  FF7 has shit to do...and Gold Saucer alone is one of the highest point of the extra shit.  FF7 had something that FF8 was missing, FF9 tried to get, FFX ignored, FF12 forgot, and FF13 said "fuck it"...it had shit to do that didn't feel like a fucking gride.  FF7 knew it was a game, and it put games in it's game.  It made it fun...it made you want to take breaks from the story.


Now the FF13 team said it's impossible to have that kind of scale in games due to the lack of technology, but Nomura already confirmed world maps, airships, large scale, and stuff from the old days of JRPGs for Versus XIII.  How did Nomura pull this off but the primary Final Fantasy team can't?  The fucking Kingdom Hearts team is doing it...what's stopping the crew that works with just Final Fantasy?  

Is voice acting too hard?  Too much shit to voice?  Alright, just do the important stuff as cutscenes and the rest as text, what's wrong with that?  The world map too big?  Well...how the fuck is Nomura doing it with Versus XIII?

The excuse of technology, or the game being too hard to make is bullshit.  When Square Enix has it's Kingdom Hearts team (who DONT make Final Fantasy) doing the things that the FF13 team said was impossible, it's a slap in the face of not only the fans but also the industry as a whole.  It just shows them as being fucking lazy.  

The work on a FF7 Remake will be spent on making the game, it doesn't involve story.  They already have the renders from Advent Children, some of the cities have already been remade in the movie, that shitty Vincent game had things they can update from, etc.  The thing about having a whore is that it's been around.  You have shit you can use, that bitch has been DPed so many times it knows how things work.   Don't be fucking lazy.

Now about the plot, FF7 was ahead of it's time.  Now some people will say the cut-off of "good" and "bad" FFs is post FF6...but I think FF7 tries hard to be that bridge between the two.  It tries to make a point of corporate greed, tries to make a point of love, environmentalism, what terrorism really is, and the future legacy of the people who live after us.  The funny thing is, Squaresoft has become the Shinra Corproation...and having a plot like that would be so fucking funny.  

I'm really enjoying playing through FF7 again.  I forgot how good Square used to make their games.  It's a god damn shame most of the crew left, and maybe FF7 shouldn't be whored out at all anymore.  Square will keep whoring it out, so just do the right thing and make the game everyone wants.  If you're afraid it would waste time, then just tell Nomura to do it after he finishes Kingdom Hearts III.  He'd gladly go back and redo it, and even said he'd consider it if he had time.  

Inspire a future generation, remind people like me who grew up playing your games as a tool for escapism, and just feel some fucking remorse.  Square Enix's most profitable franchise the past decade has been Kingdom Hearts, not Final Fantasy.  It's fucked up, they'll clearly remake every one over and over...but they won't touch the one people want.   

But hey, when you got a slut that people keep paying for, why would you set it free?


This Used To Be The Coolest Fucking Intro Ever 




#2 Posted by bartok (2585 posts) -

It would be interesting to go back to an updated port of Final Fantasy 7 since it was my first RPG.  

#3 Edited by EuanDewar (5098 posts) -

An  FF7 remake at this point seems like Square's emergency plan, just in case fans lose all faith in them they pull the lever with the sign "UPDATE THE GRAPHICS" above it.




#4 Posted by ChristianCastillo (1162 posts) -

yup

#5 Edited by Gabriel (4082 posts) -

The best thing they could do is not remake but make it look better. It doesn't need to look or play like Final Fantasy XIII. The Top down view and battle system needs to stay and I'm all for no voice acting, just text. Release it for 30 bucks on PSN and I'd buy it. 

#6 Edited by OllyOxenFree (4988 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:

" I was a diner last week"

I knew you weren't human...

Get your curry away from me!
#7 Posted by MisterChief (832 posts) -
@Gabriel said:
" The best thing they could do is not remake but make it look better. It doesn't need to look or play like Final Fantasy XIII. The Top down view and battle system needs to stay and I'm all for no voice acting, just text. Release it for 30 bucks on PSN and I'd buy it.  "
New translation too.
#8 Posted by Gabriel (4082 posts) -
@MisterChief said:
" @Gabriel said:
" The best thing they could do is not remake but make it look better. It doesn't need to look or play like Final Fantasy XIII. The Top down view and battle system needs to stay and I'm all for no voice acting, just text. Release it for 30 bucks on PSN and I'd buy it.  "
New translation too. "
Fuck no, I want it to be as racist as I remember. 
#9 Posted by KaosAngel (13764 posts) -
@MisterChief said:
" @Gabriel said:
" The best thing they could do is not remake but make it look better. It doesn't need to look or play like Final Fantasy XIII. The Top down view and battle system needs to stay and I'm all for no voice acting, just text. Release it for 30 bucks on PSN and I'd buy it.  "
New translation too. "
Yeah I can see that working.  Put in high-res art work, copypasta shit, half the mobs are already in FF13 so just copypasta that, etc....also get an updated score. 
#10 Posted by dankempster (2255 posts) -

Here's why a remake isn't needed:


The game is still good, just the way it is.

#11 Posted by Jadeskye (4368 posts) -

It's square enix's backup plan if things start hitting the fan.

Online
#12 Posted by X19 (2306 posts) -

We have to wait till 200 versions of FFV and FFVI are made first.

#13 Posted by skrutop (3615 posts) -
I agree with you KaosAngel. I've played through most of the remakes in the past few years and would like to take another crack at 7. It's not my favorite in the series, but it is a very important game.
#14 Posted by Zero_ (1977 posts) -

The case against a FFVII remake from someone who rates FFVII as his favourite game:


Square Enix cannot make good games anymore, especially Final Fantasy games. FFXIII, FFXIV - all train wrecks. I'd rather VII say as a good memory, and not a new bastardisation from a company that's merely a shadow of it's former self.
#15 Posted by zityz (2360 posts) -

I would take a remake of FFVI first over FFVII.


Kefka> Sephiroth 
#16 Edited by dagas (2930 posts) -

I'd love it is they just did an HD-upgrade of the graphics, but I bet that if they did a remake they would redo everything and fuck it all up. The game is fine as it is except for the graphics. It doesn't even have to be FFXIII graphics, I'd be happy just with upscaled FFX graphics. It doesn't have to look awesome as long as it doesn't look eye-bleedingly bad as it does now.
If they have to add a bunch of new stuff and redo gameplay or story then I want options in the menu to play in classic mode with just the updated graphics.


EDIT: I have to say I agree with the OP when it comes to story. FF7 has the most solid story in the FF-games as far as I'm concerned. It dealt with a lot of stuff like pollution and such and had some unexpected twists (not going to bother with spoil warning for a 14 year old game) like when Cloud starts to wonder if he is a clone and if so what that means and start to question if he was even in SOLDIER at all and realize that he was just one of the grunts and Zack was in fact the one being a SOLDIER. I certainly never expected that.
#17 Posted by WatanabeKazuma (989 posts) -

Even though the characters outside of battle have aged badly, it still doesn't need the remake treatment. A HD touch up would probably give it the clean-up that would be needed.


Even if they were to use an existing engine remaking the entire game would take a LOT of work. The way people have talked about in the past, you'd think all they would to do is flick a couple of switches.
#18 Posted by Korolev (1726 posts) -

Final Fantasy VII came out in 1997. Over a decade ago. I myself, despite having been born in 1987, did not play it when it came out. I only played it much, much later on the PC when I found a copy in a bargain bin for 5 dollars. Many people haven't played it. Vast, vast, vast scores of teenagers were either too young to play it, or not even BORN when it came out (someone born in 1998 could be 13 years old by now). 


The people who played FFVII, when it came out, are a lot older now. Most of them have jobs or have finished university. Many of them no longer play as many games as they used to. I sure as hell don't and I'm only 23. Younger fans won't care for a remake unless it's very, very, very well done, and older fans who would care for any remake are dwindling in number.

Square Enix isn't stupid. No company WILFULLY ignores an opportunity for easy money. If they haven't done it, there's a reason - and don't say it's because they are lazy. A fair few Square Enix folks quit the company or even killed themselves over the effort it took to make Final Fantasy XIII. 

Remaking it would require a massive effort. Yes, they have a few movie renders - mainly of the characters. Can they be used in the game? Maybe not. Making a CGI scene of a city is different to making a 3D environment. 

If they remade FFVII, people are going to demand that it be held to the same quality, graphically speaking, as XIII. YOU might not demand that, but many others will, particularly the Japanese FF crowd. Remaking all of FFVII"s environments to the same graphical level as FFXIII would take serious effort. Not only that, FFVII is a dated game. Nostalgia masks its flaws for the older fans, but us younger folks don't have that sense of Nostalgia. I never had a PS1, I never played FFVII until 2005. I liked Final Fantasy IX and X enough to go back and play VII, and from a fresh perspective that game has not aged well. Newer audiences will not find it nearly as interesting as the older folks, and for the game to be financially successful, it needs to attract a new core audience. They'll have to add stuff on to the game in order to make it a more attractive package to the modern folks. Adding stuff takes time. 

Also, if you look back at it, the graphics of FFVII were sparse and limited. Buildings and environments were not well designed. A lot of enemies just consisted of flat monochrome textures. Those guards in the picture in your post look like blue rag-dolls. If they remake the game, that means they have to remake all the enemies, and that means they have to design them all over again. The original graphics just aren't detailed enough. Then they have to do motion capture, they have to animate all the enemies... 

Look, remaking FFVII in a way that would please the old fans and the new fans would be extremely expensive. Do you know how much it cost to do just one scene of Advent's Children? I have to tell it, it cost a lot. Now imagine having to design entire 3D environments to the same graphical standard. Imagine having to redrawn all the enemies. FFXIII was so expensive to make that Square Enix has to literally, LITERALLY shed ENTIRE plot points and areas and characters. The reason FFXIII sucked so bad was because costs and delays were getting so ludicrous that they had to take the pruning shears to the game (FFXIII was originally intended to be a much, much bigger, brighter, all round more wonderful game). Modern day CGI is hella-expensive. Ever wonder why games are getting shorter? It's because costs are becoming ludicrous. 

Not only that - have you ever considered that the people in Square Enix might want to do something other than commit years of their life to a remake? They are juggling multiple games and franchises, and they have to consider the concerns and interests of their shareholders. They are spending money that isn't theirs, and you have to be careful when you do that. Not to mention that they have an MMO to fix, games to publish from Eidos, new IPs to make and whatnot. Maybe one day they'll remake FFVII. But it won't be anytime soon.


#19 Posted by KaosAngel (13764 posts) -
@Korolev Square is willing to give Nomura 8 years for Versus XIII...and a budget higher than FF13, V13 is being made by Nomura's KH team, Square isn't bothered by development and costs.

I'd type more but I'm on the iPhone. -_-
#20 Posted by GetEveryone (4458 posts) -
@KaosAngel: Seems that your often at a Diner with buddy's of yours. Wish I had the money to eat out as often.

As for FFVII, I've always had an intense dislike for that game, so when I realised it had a devoted crowd it stuck in my throat a little.

If the remake didn't feel as completely archaic as the original does, I would give it a shot.
#21 Posted by Tebbit (4486 posts) -

Final Fantasy VII is still the most well-structured Final Fantasy of the lot (VI and IX, and X come pretty close though). I have always believed that if you copy-pasted everything from VII, fixed up some of the more egregious typos and translation mishaps, and slapped a clean, bright graphics engine over it, it'd be the greatest thing ever.

@Korolev: The thing is, Final Fantasy VII isn't enormous. Look at games like Dragon Age: Origins, Fallout 3 etc. The number of unique locations in DA:O is roughly (very roughly, because it's only my opinion) similar to the areas in FFVII, while Fallout 3 is much more vast, if perhaps slightly less dense. The point is that both games get by perfectly well with simple graphics engines, what carries them is a strong art style and that is something that doesn't cost millions of dollars. If they released a remake of FFVII for $20 on PSN and Xbox Live with that kind of attitude, it would be accepted by the same people who brought Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Black-Ops even. These people don't demand FFXIII graphics from all their games, they just want graphics that are good.

#22 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

Honsetly, I don't agree with anything the OP says.


let me say good things first so people don't think I'm a total hater.

The FF7 Score is breathtaking.

The environmental art of the game is second to none in videogames.

Midgar is brilliant.

The scene with the broken down church is an emotional piece of art all on it's own.

But FF7 is easily the most overrated FF game ever. The plot is trite to anyone who has a decent background in anime. People who's first introdcution to Japanese storytelling was FF7 are duped into thinking it's original, in my opinion.

The characters are one-note cardboard cutouts that, in Baretts case, are flat out offensive.

Aeris death is only shocking if you've never seen anime or played Japanese games before.

The 3man gameplay ruined RPGs by taking away all your party's weaknesses and forcing all your units to be, essentially, the same. This wasn't done for the sake of gameplay, it was done for the graphics.

The translation was utter crap due to the short timeline the developers had to work onit. I think it was 3 guys working over 2 months.
#23 Posted by feargalr (55 posts) -
@Korolev: You make some pretty good points, and thats coming from someone who actually loves the game and can't wait for it to be remade... but why are you assuming that they would need to made the graphics at FFXIII's level? Tebbit makes some excellent points.. there are plenty of other games out there that have managed to blow all the others out of the water on a modest graphics engine, the core RPG market isn't concerned with having the best graphics out there, as long as they are good, and suitable for the console that the game is on then no one is going to say a thing. Remaking FF7 would be a big project, but its far far far from impossible, infact it's absolutely guaranteed to make a large profit, not just because of us that grew up with it, but because there would be huge buzz about a potential remake that I can assure you would get every young gamers attention at some point. 
 
@Tebbit: You make some good points
 
@JazGalaxy: Aeries death is shocking, Ive played loads of JRPGs and the death of a main character is not particularly common and thats why Aeris was such a big deal.  I don't really get your point about the 3man party weakness, most RPGs from the 90s have that structure, or a slightly altered version of it, and tbh your wrong about the characters, but spot on about the translation.
#24 Posted by Marz (5671 posts) -

They gave ff7 so much fan service, a movie based on it.  A prequel with Crisis Core (good game btw).   I really don't think it needs a remake.   

#25 Posted by XenoNick (1483 posts) -

I personally *Being one hell of a massive FF7 fanboy* think square are saving it for when they have exhausted all other options. I also don't want a remake. They wont be able to do a decent job like Capcom did with Resident Evil on the gamecube.

#26 Posted by InfiniteGeass (2058 posts) -

I'd only play it if they overhauled the gameplay completely.

#27 Posted by TooWalrus (13257 posts) -

As someone who laid eyes on FFVII for the very first time in 2010... 
 
That game is shit. Fuck it.

#28 Edited by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -

I will angrily shit a brick if FF7 gets a remake before FF6, and have major gastrointestinal surgery. Just been playing through FF4CC on PSP and it's fucking beautiful. This is how 'HD' remakes of 2D games should be handled.
 
The only thing that would make it better is if was on my 3DS... but then I would have to restart.

#29 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2913 posts) -

Yeah, remember when Square made good games? Sigh...

#30 Posted by Toms115 (2317 posts) -

they're not the same company any more. they would fuck up a remake so bad.

#31 Posted by feargalr (55 posts) -
@TooWalrus: No actually your wrong there
#32 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5403 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
Now before I begin, Final Fantasy VII has always been my least favorite one due to the idiots who make up the fanbase.  I just got sick and tired of their bullshit cosplay, fanfictions, and absurd theories...and I also feel FF7 is whored out.  It's a fucking whore that gets fucked for a quater, it's like the game is Square's Enix number one prostitute and a sure fire way to get some money.  Wada dresses up FF7 in some slut dress, fuck me boots, and lipsticks that bitch so she can get fucked by the fat fucks who masturbate to Tifa and Yuffee every night.  Maybe too graphic, but hey...a point has to be made.
     You described the fanbases for every final fantasy game with that.  (The rabid ones)
#33 Posted by JasonR86 (9728 posts) -

Nope.  I replayed it and the dialogue is bad, the story is kinda bad, the side-quests were...wait, side-quests?  I guess there were a few, kinda.  I would call them mini-games but that's just me.
 
FF7 is stuck in its time.  It was great then.  Just like Goldeneye was great then.  But now?  I don't think so.

#34 Edited by Abram03 (36 posts) -

I would go for an FF7 remake IF the story were tightened up and expanded considerably.  Also, MAKE SEPHIROTH BEATABLE WITHOUT KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND, because having to play that stupid Chocobo minigame made me vomit semi-liquid rage.  Furthermore, 1.5 times the monsters.  Some new locations wouldn't hurt, either.  

FF6 is still better, though.  It was so good that FF7 couldn't help but borrow heavily from it story-wise.  But nothing comes from whole cloth; make up something completely original, and it will be incomprehensible and lame (the notorious short story, "The Eyeball Glans-Flower of Gilf" comes to mind).  Quibbles and comparisons aside, FF7 still has enough character as it is for a slightly tarnished silver cookie.  The version that I imagine would deserve a golden cookie, though.
 
Just a side thing:  people don't talk about an FF6 remake so much because it was so satisfying as it was, is and will be.  The little pixel characters touch your imagination in a way that the million-poly protags of newer games don't.

#35 Posted by mazik765 (2316 posts) -

Or they could just make a new FF game that doesn't suck and we can stop clinging to a game that is over a decade old. Its not even the best FF game.

#36 Posted by SonicFire (821 posts) -

So wait, the case kinda comes down to "because you liked it best?" I don't think it's a bad game by any stretch, but IMO it was easily bested by its predecessor. I'm still blown away by the story beats in FFVI. I mean, about the time you think the game should be wrapping up, the bad guy succeeds in destroying the freaking world, and you wake up one year later as a minor character having to recreate your team in a wasteland existence.
#37 Posted by TooWalrus (13257 posts) -
@feargalr said:
@TooWalrus: No actually your wrong there
...I don't think I am. Thanks though.
#38 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@InfiniteGeass said:

I'd only play it if they overhauled the gameplay completely.

I'm in this boat as well.

#39 Posted by Cathryn (550 posts) -

Just finished playing this game for the first time a few days ago, saw this, and figured I'd chime in.

So, as I said, I just finished playing FFVII for the first time the other day. I'm old enough to have played it the first time around, but I wasn't playing games then, so I didn't. I have played all of the more recent FF games (X, XII, XIII), and I wasn't able to get through any of them. FFVII is the first FF game I've ever finished -- mainly due to my having crazy FFVII fangirl friends that hounded me until I was done.

That said, I could've given up, and didn't. Primarily because of the FF games I've played (and it's totally arguable that I haven't played the best ones) VII definitely has the most charm and the best story. IMO, the things in FFVII that make it dated and difficult for younger/newer players to get in to are directly related to when it was released and not the quality of the story and gameplay/battle system.

Battle system's good, story's good (good twists, decent character development, info dropped at appropriate moments to keep you interested), and the materia system is easy enough for a lot of people to get in to and pretty deep insofar as you can customize your skillsets as much as you'd like within the system's restrictions (slot limits, etc...).

What's bad is the lack of camera control and navigating your way around the 2d environments and parts of the worldmap. I got lost for a good half an hour at one point near Wutai, trying to find my way back to the Tiny Bronco, and only found the right path by accident (I could see it, but not how to get to it because I couldn't move the camera around).

As is, I would never play FFVII again because traversing the environments is just too big a pain in the ass. I would, however, go for a full-on remake, as those elements, which imo were the worst parts of the game, would be fixed up and I think that would go a long way to making the game more approachable to new audiences. I know a lot of people who would buy it and if they're having a lot of financial difficulties over there, I think it might be worth their while at this point.

#40 Posted by TooWalrus (13257 posts) -

I wish they would- I played it for the first time 2 years ago and YO THAT GAMES GARBAGE!!

#41 Posted by Pibo47 (3166 posts) -
How about this, Square actually make a new game that is meaningfully different. Or just not the same old re-hash bullshit which square has been peddling for years now. Anything really.

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