Cool. I got me some Final Fantasy hype.
Final Fantasy XIII
Game » consists of 17 releases. Released Mar 09, 2010
This entry into the Final Fantasy universe is set in the worlds of Pulse and Cocoon. Players take control of multiple characters who are caught in a war between these worlds.
Ask Me Anything: Final Fantasy XIII
" Honestly, looking over this thread, I kind of see a lot of "This looks great" but not a lot of reasons why that is. And I understand. That was my reaction too. But thinking about it, it kind of seems to me like the main reason there's enthusiasm here is because it's showing some minor move forward on FF battle system. Finally. I think people are overreacting to a pretty small number of changes to the design. This is essentially just the ATB system with faster refilling time bars and animations that knock your party out of standing shoulder to shoulder. We've been waiting for any progression from JRPGs for years, and now that they're giving us just a little bit people are sort of jumping all over it. It's great that they're moving forward, sure, but when is Japan going to offer us true customization and some really real time battle system. If they need a model, I think they need look no farther than Mass Effect. Seems to me that's a game that could pretty easily be re-skinned with their stupid anime style storytelling (Though I'm not saying Mass Effect had a bad story). In the meantime, I think we should keep in mind the fact that this game is pretty much openly announcing itself as a reboot of FFVII. Curb your enthusiasm appropriately. "You JRPG haters can never seem to look further than FF. Mainstream games tend to focus on accesibility -- meaning they usually have dumbed-down mechanics. It wasn't until FF12 that Square Enix decided to turn the FF series into something a bit more hardcore. If you want the truly original and innovative games, you need to look elsewhere -- like tri-Ace's games. Resonance of Fate's battle system is so complex that even Famitsu reviewers -- people that have played pretty much every JRPG in existence -- had a very hard time wrapping their head around it. Also, despite the fact that all of tri-Ace's previous games were published by Enix/Square Enix, Resonance of Fate will be published by Sega because Square Enix declined on the offer. That says a lot about Square Enix and their conservative nature.
Now, even though I agree that FF13's battle system isn't all that different from the series' previous battle systems, saying they should turn it into a shooter is completely ridiculous. Action games are not the natural successor to turn/menu-based games. They're two entirely different sets of genres and will always exist alongside eachother. That said, most RPGs from Japan nowadays -- including those that bear the Final Fantasy name -- are actually hack 'n' slash games. So if you simply can't stand menu-based games anymore, just pick any one of the dozen FF hack 'n' slash spin-offs. If you don't like hack 'n' slash games either, then don't play JRPGs and stop trying to turn them into something they're not. You don't hear me complaining that I can't shoot Koopa shells in Forza either.
" @Ragdrazi said:And the reason us JRPG defenders can't be taken seriously is because you're reactionary and delusional. First of all, where have I indicated to you here that I am a "hater." Really I think I've said that I'm more a "disliker" with some amount of cautious enthusiasm here. Second of all, I don't think it's just "haters" that can never seem to look farther FF. I think Japan can never seem to look farther then FF. What have you offered me as proof to the contrary? One game studio bucking the trend? That's great. Now stop fooling yourself into believing that innovation is common place. For every tri-Ace there are ten studios pulling the Square Enix line, and you know it." Honestly, looking over this thread, I kind of see a lot of "This looks great" but not a lot of reasons why that is. And I understand. That was my reaction too. But thinking about it, it kind of seems to me like the main reason there's enthusiasm here is because it's showing some minor move forward on FF battle system. Finally. I think people are overreacting to a pretty small number of changes to the design. This is essentially just the ATB system with faster refilling time bars and animations that knock your party out of standing shoulder to shoulder. We've been waiting for any progression from JRPGs for years, and now that they're giving us just a little bit people are sort of jumping all over it. It's great that they're moving forward, sure, but when is Japan going to offer us true customization and some really real time battle system. If they need a model, I think they need look no farther than Mass Effect. Seems to me that's a game that could pretty easily be re-skinned with their stupid anime style storytelling (Though I'm not saying Mass Effect had a bad story). In the meantime, I think we should keep in mind the fact that this game is pretty much openly announcing itself as a reboot of FFVII. Curb your enthusiasm appropriately. "You JRPG haters can never seem to look further than FF. Mainstream games tend to focus on accesibility -- meaning they usually have dumbed-down mechanics. It wasn't until FF12 that Square Enix decided to turn the FF series into something a bit more hardcore. If you want the truly original and innovative games, you need to look elsewhere -- like tri-Ace's games. Resonance of Fate's battle system is so complex that even Famitsu reviewers -- people that have played pretty much every JRPG in existence -- had a very hard time wrapping their head around it. Also, despite the fact that all of tri-Ace's previous games were published by Enix/Square Enix, Resonance of Fate will be published by Sega because Square Enix declined on the offer. That says a lot about Square Enix and their conservative nature. Now, even though I agree that FF13's battle system isn't all that different from the series' previous battle systems, saying they should turn it into a shooter is completely ridiculous. Action games are not the natural successor to turn/menu-based games. They're two entirely different sets of genres and will always exist alongside eachother. That said, most RPGs from Japan nowadays -- including those that bear the Final Fantasy name -- are actually hack 'n' slash games. So if you simply can't stand menu-based games anymore, just pick any one of the dozen FF hack 'n' slash spin-offs. If you don't like hack 'n' slash games either, then don't play JRPGs and stop trying to turn them into something they're not. You don't hear me complaining that I can't shoot Koopa shells in Forza either. "
Now, was saying in what I wrote that FF13 need to be a shooter, or was that just you being reactionary again? See, it's true that turn/menu-based games and action games are two different genres. The problem here is that no one on this thread has been talking about action games. The problem is, turn/menu-based games have had their day. It's over. The entire market has moved on with the exception of Japan and a handful of zealots such as yourself. It needs to be replaced with something, and taking a more action oriented RPG format seems to me like as good direction for them as any. As for JRPGs becoming hack 'n' slash games, what in the hell are you talking about? Crystal Barriers? You are really mistaking a minor trend in JRPGs for a dominate push.
the first minute or two proper looks like the start of a porno. i feel like vinny's about the ask brad if he'd take his top off for $50.
And the reason us JRPG defenders can't be taken seriously is because you're reactionary and delusional. First of all, where have I indicated to you here that I am a "hater." Really I think I've said that I'm more a "disliker" with some amount of cautious enthusiasm here. Second of all, I don't think it's just "haters" that can never seem to look farther FF. I think Japan can never seem to look farther then FF. What have you offered me as proof to the contrary? One game studio bucking the trend? That's great. Now stop fooling yourself into believing that innovation is common place. For every tri-Ace there are ten studios pulling the Square Enix line, and you know it. Now, was saying in what I wrote that FF13 need to be a shooter, or was that just you being reactionary again? See, it's true that turn/menu-based games and action games are two different genres. The problem here is that no one on this thread has been talking about action games. The problem is, turn/menu-based games have had their day. It's over. The entire market has moved on with the exception of Japan and a handful of zealots such as yourself. It needs to be replaced with something, and taking a more action oriented RPG format seems to me like as good direction for them as any. As for JRPGs becoming hack 'n' slash games, what in the hell are you talking about? Crystal Barriers? You are really mistaking a minor trend in JRPGs for a dominate push. "If you honestly still believe that most RPGs from Japan are turn-based, you obviously haven't been keeping up on the latest JRPGs. Which is to be expected, since you don't seem to be particurlarly fond of them. But I assure you I wasn't exagerating when I made that statement. The second or third most popular franchise in Japan right now (and actually more popular than FF) is Monster Hunter, and its clones alone already make up for a good chunk of all JRPGs.
And no, I wasn't referring to Crystal Bearers when I said most FF games nowadays are hack 'n' slash games. Crystal Bearers is neither a hack 'n' slash game nor an RPG -- it's a minigame collection. I was referring to the Crystal Chronicles sub-series (which, yes, Crystal Bearers does fall under, but that game in particular is not an RPG), Crisis Core, Dissidia, Agito XIII, and Versus XIII. In fact, FF13 is the only menu-based RPG Square Enix has developed since FF12. All other in-house FF titles and the Kingdom Hearts series (which happens to be my favorite video game franchise) are hack 'n' slash games.
Trust me, I myself am not a huge fan of turn-based games at all. I would say that only about a third of all RPGs I've beaten were turn-based. I vastly prefer hack 'n' slash combat, and I'm not even interested in FF13 nor am I a fan of the series. But I would never say that turn-based combat has "had its day" and needs to go, and there are a crapton of people that agree. And they're not just people that only play Japanese games either. They still develop turn-based games in Eastern Europe as well. Hell, even Dragon Age is not exactly what you call an action game. It's really no different from FF12 and FF13 in how action-oriented it is. In fact, one might even say that FF13 is more of an action game as it doesn't allow you to pause and you actually need to take the timing of your attacks into account for air juggling.
In any case, I don't really have anything else to talk about with you. You're basically saying an entire genre of games should just disappear, which is completely ridiculous. Luckily you're in the minority otherwise we now wouldn't have point 'n' click adventures either -- which happens to be my favorite genre of games that is typically only developed in the West.
Yes. Did you grow up with #1? If not you missed out. I was 10 when it came out and had the Nintendo Power laid out in front of me with my group all picked out before it came in the mail from my grandma for Christmas... And I do think this is a time period/age thing, see by your response I can tell you are younger than me :) The original Final Fantasy was about YOUR group doing the quest, you defined who they were by their exploits, it wasn't a game making characters for you and basing the story on them. The story was a traditional quest, and you decided who you wanted to bring and you stuck with them for the whole epic game. They did not have names, YOU named them, they were yours. You picked the group you wanted. "hai i r thief" does suck, i wish they could have done more, but you take that bad text too literal, that was not the Thief I ever used; that's a thief used by someone with no imagination who wasn't into the story.... My thief could get them outta any fight, had crazy blue hair, he was a damn light warrior who was 100% hero and only out to stop chaos; and lets face it, he was the ladies man of the group.... And just because they did not have deep backstory outside of the manual does not mean they did not have the best designs...." @squidracerX: Wow, seriously? Of everything you could say about FF1 you think the *characters* are better? They're as bland as you can get >___> "hai i r thief" "
The character designs had tons of personality for so little graphics power, and they all looked totally different from each other with defined powers. You could look at any one of them at the character select screen without knowing who they were and you KNEW their powers.... They defined their jobs! What are the guys powers in today's FF games? Barret had a "gun hand" so that was obvious.But in these games even their powers are interchangeable. The new game lets them change jobs at whim. That's lame character design, a wizard should be a wizard. But they keep them neutral looking in this game on purpose. Each one of the 8-bit guys had to have so much personality WITHOUT any dialog that you couldn't make them generic looking... If you think that any character in this new game can stand up to the design power of the BLACK WIZARD from the first game you are wrong sir. He is classic. Every one of those sprites was made to be an icon. To me that's how poor these new characters are. An 8-bit wizard was waaaaay cooler than a million dollar 3D model with full voice acting.... Heck Final Fantasy Tactics actually has my favorite characters in it, and they are 100% based off of the original characters and ideas in FF1 era and dress accordingly (black wizard in the house!). Heck Black Wizard has even been in FF9. Next to chocobo and moogle he is one of the 3 most iconic FF characters! And they all appeared BEFORE FF7! Back in the "hai i r thief" days! The 3 best character designs are OLD "count the pixel days" characters.
When you grow up with atari and 8-bit games you do use a bit of imagination that younger generations don't need to use (that's why we romanticize older games in our memories, because in our heads they were better! Then we go back and see them and we are like "I remember that looking/being better"). Growing up playing that game i know the black wizard, he is a LIGHT WARRIOR. Black Wizard is the coolest looking best designed FF character ever.
Game looks awesome. I loved the sphere grid, it's my favourite leveling system of any final fantasy game, and they've combined it with the kind of job system from a couple of the others which I also really liked.
I don't like that they made the sphere grid all crazy 3d like that, seems like it just made it a bit more akward to use/look at just so they could make it shinier looking.
Still looks like a bit to get your head around, but I'm a bit more psyched for the game now. Cool feature.
Sometimes I forget how childish people on the internet can be, and then I run into someone like you and it reminds me of why I find doing all this fun."If you honestly still believe that most RPGs from Japan are turn-based, you obviously haven't been keeping up on the latest JRPGs. Which is to be expected, since you don't seem to be particurlarly fond of them. But I assure you I wasn't exagerating when I made that statement. The second or third most popular franchise in Japan right now (and actually more popular than FF) is Monster Hunter, and its clones alone already make up for a good chunk of all JRPGs. And no, I wasn't referring to Crystal Bearers when I said most FF games nowadays are hack 'n' slash games. Crystal Bearers is neither a hack 'n' slash game nor an RPG -- it's a minigame collection. I was referring to the Crystal Chronicles sub-series (which, yes, Crystal Bearers does fall under, but that game in particular is not an RPG), Crisis Core, Dissidia, Agito XIII, and Versus XIII. In fact, FF13 is the only menu-based RPG Square Enix has developed since FF12. All other in-house FF titles and the Kingdom Hearts series (which happens to be my favorite video game franchise) are hack 'n' slash games. Trust me, I myself am not a huge fan of turn-based games at all. I would say that only about a third of all RPGs I've beaten were turn-based. I vastly prefer hack 'n' slash combat, and I'm not even interested in FF13 nor am I a fan of the series. But I would never say that turn-based combat has "had its day" and needs to go, and there are a crapton of people that agree. And they're not just people that only play Japanese games either. They still develop turn-based games in Eastern Europe as well. Hell, even Dragon Age is not exactly what you call an action game. It's really no different from FF12 and FF13 in how action-oriented it is. In fact, one might even say that FF13 is more of an action game as it doesn't allow you to pause and you actually need to take the timing of your attacks into account for air juggling. In any case, I don't really have anything else to talk about with you. You're basically saying an entire genre of games should just disappear, which is completely ridiculous. Luckily you're in the minority otherwise we now wouldn't have point 'n' click adventures either -- which happens to be my favorite genre of games that is typically only developed in the West. "
All right. So I have to admit that you were confusing me by using some batshit crazy terminology that only you appear to really understand. When you say "hack 'n' slash" you're not specific as to what the fuck you're talking about, at all. Are you talking about a game like Dissidia, which isn't actually an RPG? Or in your world is "hack 'n' slash" a game with some limited to moderate RPG elements like Crystal Bearers (Which, by the way, has a battle system, at least if the venerable Giant Bomb is to be believed). Or do you mean a heavy RPG with a "hack 'n' slash" battle system, which is the only thing that it makes sense to talk about in terms of this conversation, is "hack 'n' slash"? You appear to mean all three, and that's pretty fucking intellectually dishonest.
Right, so you've only managed to bring up two games (Kingdom Hearts and Crisis Core) that are actually RPGs and have also been released in America. That really does amount to a minor trend, regardless of the popularity of Kingdom Hearts. If you're faulting me for not importing games in a language I can't understand, then fuck you. (Or to state it better, "Perhaps you might have phrased your point thusly: 'I can understand why an American consumer would think this, but a new spate of more expansive games has been produced in Japan and will be on their way soon.'")
Also, I find it interesting that you still haven't adequately challenged the idea that the majority of Japanese RPG designers are still producing turn-based games.
As far as how popular turn-based RPGs are, stop kidding yourself. Read every thread on this site for a quick look of a turn-based game. The overwhelming opinion is that turn-based combat has had its day. The idea that it's ridiculous to say that a genre of games should disappear is ludicrous. Genres dissipate all the time. Let's look at the genre that was common in the west at the time Japan came up with the ATB system. We're talking isometric, turn-based, grid-based, action point based games like Fallout. You see any of those anymore? No. Why wasn't Fallout 3 in that style? Because we've all moved on. The system that replaced it, the "Pause and Play" system used by games like Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age offered a system that allowed you to manage your characters actions in real time. See, the problem here isn't how much action an RPG offers, its how far we can get from turns and how close we can get to real time. That was the motion the market was taking in fucking 1994. If, as you say, there is this new spate of games in Japan that take advantage of that, then fucking great. But it's taken them more then 15 years to get here.
Finally, this entire conversation was based on you making the incredible leap to thnking I was saying FFXIII should be a shooter, when, in fact, what I was clearly saying is that Mass Effect could easily be remade as a JRPG. I was saying is that Japan needs to offer us that level of true customization and personal control. I think the, again, overwhelming opinion is that right now the center of video game gravity is quickly pulling away from Japan in large part because they cannot offer this. Because, let me tell you something, kid, I would be enthused, flat incredibly enthused, to play a JRPG that offered as much customization as a western RPG regardless of what battle system it used.
Anyway, I hope this conversation has helped you realize what a ridiculous fool you are, and please forgive the lateness of my reply.
The game sounds were a little too loud. I was having a hard time understanding what Brad was saying.
This might be the first FF game since FF8 to really interest me.
And that soul brother totally looks like Mike Epps.
" Also, not to blow anyone's mind or anything but I'm pretty sure the font FFXIII uses for it's UI is the same font Mass Effect uses for the "Normandy" (and other places in the game) font on the ship. "Not that I can recall, no. Two different fonts, I guarantee you.
battle system looks impressive, hoping it will have a decent storyline too, the last one i enjoyed was ffX, and ffX-2 and XII were just balls.
Wow, this game looks amazing... I will buy. Playing through Kingdom Hearts now, then FFX. I like it when developers ignore the fan-boys and instead opt for freedom in design. You can't please everyone so don't even try.
Looks like a good game but people keep trashing it. Brad says it takes time to get to the heart of game play.
" Honestly though, I liked FF13 overall. FAR and above better then 12. Had it's issues though. I just hope they refine the concept, and not throw it out the window next time they make a FF game. "The last Final Fantasy game I played was VI, and from what I hear XIII definitely is no where near VI in terms of storytelling.
" If you have a fucking shitload of time on your hands (that's the only way I can describe it), do yourself a favor and read this. It is one of the greatest reviews of a thing ever, and that thing just happens to be Final Fantasy XIII. "Hoooooly crap. I'll have to save that when I'm bored during school tomorrow.
I do think the direction it is going is good. Maybe it's setting up for full on awesome next addition.
" @StarFoxA said:VI was my favorite, but I haven't played many." @Poki3 said:I don't value 6 as high as some people, but it's still a top quality RPG, so saying "it's not as good as 6" isn't saying much. "" Honestly though, I liked FF13 overall. FAR and above better then 12. Had it's issues though. I just hope they refine the concept, and not throw it out the window next time they make a FF game. "The last Final Fantasy game I played was VI, and from what I hear XIII definitely is no where near VI in terms of storytelling. "
All of the reviews on ActionButton.net are very similar; long, tangential reviews that are usually very funny and raise interesting points, but... they're sooo looooong." @takua108 said:
Hoooooly crap. I'll have to save that when I'm bored during school tomorrow. "" If you have a fucking shitload of time on your hands (that's the only way I can describe it), do yourself a favor and read this. It is one of the greatest reviews of a thing ever, and that thing just happens to be Final Fantasy XIII. "
WARNING, THOUGH: There's at least one paragraph of non-sequitur in there that may make you laugh out loud for like five minutes. I know it made me giggle nonstop for three.
EDIT: HEY, GIANT BOMB STAFF, LOOKIE HERE: I WAS MAKING A LEGITIMATE POST, AND MISSED GETTING A QUEST FOR IT. MAYBE THIS QUEST KINDA SUCKS, A LITTLE?
" @Legend: Yeah, for the record, I was just trying to get it past 300 so people would leave this thread alone. "I thought you were trying to finish the quest yourself. It's still funny, though. I was actually having a drink and nearly spit it all over the floor thanks to the comment you deleted. LOL!
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