Final fantasy XIII ending discussion thread SPOILERS!!!!!

#1 Posted by Nekrosis (66 posts) -

 REMEMBER, DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ENDING SPOILED FOR YOU, i'm not gonna put any of it in a spoiler or then the thread would just be full of them.
Just post your thoughts(Opinions, critiques)about the ending about final fantasy xiii, also post your time played and characters, class choices for the end of the game if you want:) 
56:12:26 time played 
Light, Vanille, Hope...vanille for poison on first orphan.  
I thought the ending was absolutely perfect, i was a little sour about the would be ending of everyone turning into a ci'eth but that obviously didn't happen, it was entirely unexpected and i had no clue where they were taken it but the outcome made me happy and satisfied and it did it's job of entertaining me well. The last boss......not so much, considering the boss before it was an extremely stressful keeping my party up..healing debuffs, and being stressed out for 7 attempts with my under leveled party, the last boss being a whole...hit him until he dies fight was absolutely ridiculous.  
Can't wait to see what giantbomb has to say about it.

#2 Posted by Dolphin_Butter (1984 posts) -

Leona Lewis's song fit.  Yeah, I just dropped the bomb.

#3 Posted by Nekrosis (66 posts) -
@Sleepy_Insomniac: Aw man dude, you just ruined the ending for everyone!
#4 Posted by Kumo (127 posts) -

You're more patient than I am, apparently. i got annoyed after dying over and over to the first form of Orphan with my under-leveled party, so I went to Gran Pulse, maxed my chars out, came back and killed them all in two staggers each (Orphan's first form took a few hits past two staggers). As for the ending itself, I was a little worried at first about how it might end, but I thought what they did was a very satisfying way to end it. Also, I agree with Sleepy_Insomniac. Leona Lewis' song did fit.

#5 Posted by Nekrosis (66 posts) -
@Kumo: I completely agree, i got extremely frustrated dying on orphans first form but once you figure out he's weak to poison, it was easy with my very low level characters.
#6 Posted by Steve_C (1768 posts) -

 Just finished it. 57:33:56

Had no idea about poison, but I don't use a saboteur in my party. I just slogged it out and did it first try. I'd just turtle with my med/syn/sen until i was all buffed up and then i started to build chain, switching to triple ravagers to get it up to around 800% before having two coms start dealing out the damage. I think it was after 2 staggers and maybe at the beginning of the 3rd when he went down.
I thought the end bosses were pretty terrible. The ending FMV was absolutely beautiful though. It's awesome when the art on the front of the game suddenly makes sense. Having finished it though, this game feels way too 'anime', more so than any other FF game. Some of the dialogue is just so damn cheesy. Don't think much of leona lewis either.
Tomorrow i'll go back to pulse and try and go through a lot of the new and harder missions. I can start maxing out everyone at lvl 5 for all jobs too. That's gonna take a while.

#7 Posted by DonChipotle (3077 posts) -

I had more trouble with the enemies before the last boss than I did the actual last boss. A Haste/Veiled medic with Curaja was keeping me alive faster than the Orphan Shell could injure me. And the True Form Orphan was just pathetic. 
I dug the ending. It was happy. I'm a sucker for happy endings. And now I'm way into Leona Lewis, so fuck you, Square.

#8 Posted by Vorbis (2763 posts) -

Orphans Cradle was a nightmare, I ended up skipping most of the monsters just to reach the last boss. Killed Barty easily then struggled on Orphan for a long time before working out if I debuffed and buffed up enough, I could get him to 40% in one stagger thus avoiding the status effect part completly.
Last Boss was easy, but this is common for FF, it's usually more story driven than a challenge (see Sephiroth). 
55hours, but I skipped alot of the missions, definitly going back for them now. Also kind of sad about Fang, was my favourite character and this will probably mean she won't be in FXIII-2 they keep talking about.

#9 Posted by Nekrosis (66 posts) -
@Vorbis: I completely agree with the difficulty of the mobs before orphan...completely ridiculous i fought until the last elevator and skipped everything.
#10 Edited by luce (4056 posts) -

@Sleepy_Insomniac said:

" Leona Lewis's song fit.  Yeah, I just dropped the bomb.  Boom. "

You know what.. I hated that song when i first heard it but it did kind of fit the ending.
As for the ending..yeah it would've been cool if everyone stayed crystal
#11 Edited by xyzygy (10596 posts) -

Just beat it, and I thought the ending was perfect. I beat it at 78 hours. I am in love with this freaking game, I'm gonna play to max out everyone and get all the achievements! 
I think they're going to make a FFXIII-2 because the ending really made it seem so. Vanille and Fang will wake up from their crystal.  
Do you think Fang and Vanille will be in Versus?!

#12 Edited by Lawrens (678 posts) -

I beat it in 54hrs, did 20hunts and so on, not counting the storyline ones.

I liked the ending, even though a bit short, but Fang and Vanille were probably one of my favorite characters in the FF series, if only we get to learn more about them and pulse, the Oerba village and the pulse section was way too short and giving too little information, especially compared to the amount of hunts you could do in that particular section.

I hope versus will have more relationship to their world, can't wait.  I wouldn't mind seeing Fang and Vanille returning either.

#13 Posted by Signpost (51 posts) -

Just finished, credits are rolling now.  I liked the ending, it seemed to fit with the overall narrative.  I hope they don't make a sequel though.  Everything is wrapped up nicely and I don't think a sequel would turn out that well (don't want another X-2 fiasco).  I like that each FF is self-contained.  I will definitely be giving this another play-through and maxing out my characters.

#14 Edited by Periscope (51 posts) -

I beat it last night just shy of 48 hours.
Orphan's Cradle was easily the worst part of the entire game,  I got sick of all the fighting back on Gran Pulse and the relentless difficulty of Orphan's Cradle brought me close to throwing in the towel.  I ended up running past as many enemies as possible towards the end and fully expected to be underpowered for the final boss fight.  I was pretty shocked to realize that the final boss was easier to defeat than most of the enemies getting there and I had the most difficulty with the Barthandelus form.
The ending was alright, beautiful to look at, but it didn't do much for me beyond that.  Probably because I didn't connect with most of the characters.  I never felt invested in what was happening and at times I didn't understand what was going on until reading the datalog summary.  I'd like to think I'm a relatively intelligent guy, but the game left me wondering about quite a few things.  
For instance, what exactly were the fal'cie? Was there nothing more to their story than they were non-human lifeforms that wanted to bring god back?  How was the party able to turn back from being Ci'eth?  Happy thoughts?  What allowed Vanille and Fang to turn into Ragnarok at the end, and why was it only possible for someone to take the form of Ragnarok at that point in time?  Story convenience?  Power ups?  I'm not trying to be dense here, maybe all this formation was given and I was just completely zoned out.  If anyone has some answers, I'm definitely interested.
All in all I can't say that I enjoyed FFXIII as much as I would have liked to.  If I were a saner man I probably would have stopped 20 hours earlier and just admitted that I wasn't having a good time.

#15 Edited by Spacetrucking (1063 posts) -

It took be 53 hours to finish it. I thought they dragged out the ending a bit...the numerous Orphan corridors and then the endless parade of boss fights left me a little jaded. My party was good enough to breeze through most of them with 4-5 stars but I still felt the fights went on for a bit too long. 
Eh, anyway, the ending cutscene was beautiful and the Leona Lewis song was a perfect fit. Fang was my favorite character so I was a bit sad about that. Though Vanille got glassed as well so I'll give it a thumbs up!  
@Periscope: A lot of what you didn't understand was squarely down to story convenience. Like the party turning into Ci'eith - it was a fal'Cie illusion but for no logical reason, they were able to break out it. Fang & Vanille turning to Ragnarok was also completely random. I just assumed Fang could've become Ragnarok at any time but she chose that moment because the world was literally falling apart then.

#16 Posted by Periscope (51 posts) -
@Killjoi:  That's what I thought.  Good to know I'm not a complete idiot.
#17 Posted by xyzygy (10596 posts) -

So how was Fang and Vanille able to turn into Ragnarok? I don't get why they were just all of a sudden able to do that.

#18 Posted by Periscope (51 posts) -
@xyzygy:  I...have no idea.  Because it was necessary for the ending the creators wanted?  I'm not even sure what Ragnaork is, some sort of uber Ci'eth? 
#19 Posted by xyzygy (10596 posts) -
@Periscope: I think I found it out, after some research. Fang and Vanille both had this power because they are Pulse L'Cie. As a Pulse L'Cie, their sworn enemies were everyone on Cocoon. Raganarok was meant to destroy Cocoon, so it makes sense why they are the only two able to. All the other characters are Cocoon L'Cie.
#20 Posted by Periscope (51 posts) -
@xyzygy: Wasn't everyone a Pulse l'Cie though?  They were all turned into l'Cie by that fal'Cie they found in that ruin from Pulse, right?
#21 Posted by xyzygy (10596 posts) -
@Periscope said:
" @xyzygy: Wasn't everyone a Pulse l'Cie though?  They were all turned into l'Cie by that fal'Cie they found in that ruin from Pulse, right? "
Oh dammit you're right... Hmm... Maybe because they were branded like hundreds of years ago... I don't know. This is so dumb :P
#22 Posted by ZenaxPure (2584 posts) -

I believe it's because their original focus was to become Ragnarok and destroy the world. As for the other 4 characters.... The game never really makes it 100% clear what their focus is despite all of them "knowing" at the end of the game after they turn back from c'ieth.

#23 Edited by Spacetrucking (1063 posts) -
@Zenaxzd: But didn't Fang already complete that previous Focus ? I thought she turned into Ragnarok as the Cocoon fairytale says and completed her last Focus by destroying a large chunk of Cocoon. That's why she and Vanille were crystals when the FF13 story began. Just like how they turned into crystals at the ending of FF13 by completing their new Focus. I won't be surprised if FFXIII-2 or Versus starts with them waking up again. 
@xyzygy: I think any of the six characters could turn into Ragnarok. In Chapter 10, I remember Barthendulus saying "One of you has to become the beast Ragnarok". Even Orphan implied the same thing in the end. At that time, Fang stepped forward. But in the end, both Fang and Vanille decided to do it together. Vanille said something like wishes can come true but not until you do something about it yourself.  
I don't know though, it was all a little too convenient. I feel like all this confusion is Square's fault at storytelling. They never really explained the Focus, l'Cie or fal'Cie business clearly enough. Even the datalogs talk about it like it's some mystical crap you're not really supposed to understand. I'm a curious person by nature so I'm really interested in understanding the why and how. But the ambiguous nature of the story makes me think Square don't want me to. 
EDIT: Does anyone else find it odd that the Final Fantasy XIII logo is actually a bit of a spoiler in itself ? Midway through the game, I started noticing the two heads and the beast on the logo. I suspected that the ending would leave Cocoon looking like that. I just didn't know who those 2 were.
Did anyone else spoil the ending for themselves by reading too much into this logo ?  

#24 Edited by Mourne (798 posts) -

The Leona Lewis song is much better than the Japanese original on its own merits, but more importantly, after reading this thread, I get the feeling most people wanted to stick to Vanille too much. If you use Lightning, Fang, and Hope as a revolving team of Rav/Com/Rav -> Rav/Sen/Syn -> Rav/Sen/Rav and Rav/Sen/Med, you can't really lose on any of those forms. Barthandalus took longer than all of Orphan's forms for me, and even he didn't take very long at all.
Once you get any of the forms stunned, you just have to use Lightning's Army of One once or twice and you'll be nearing 999.9% on the stagger gauge. I kept a Com/Com/Med class handy for the times I did get it maxed out in order to give my healer a chance to get us to full health for boss retaliations in general, so that worked out great on this one. He never seemed to be able to do anything, because even if I waited until everyone was in the red, Hope's healing (with Haste active) made us able to all practically be in the green (or close to it) by the next time he attacked.

#25 Posted by ZenaxPure (2584 posts) -
@Killjoi: She did indeed, Vanille did not, however, as we saw. That said who really knows, if the fal'cie are god-like as the game makes them out to be chances are at the end of the game they could of been doing w/e the hell they wanted and our "heroes" just had to roll with the punches. 
While that may seem kind of like a cheap cop-out I actually liked that aspect of 13. The main characters never seem to get ahead, they spend the entire game working against the flow. It actually makes their struggle seem like... well a struggle. It is the same reason I understood the lack of towns and why you are constantly moving forward. There isn't exactly any time to go to Lightning's house and find her panties in a drawer then we all laugh and have a good time throwing around the word pervert. The main characters are constantly about to be skinned alive and have to make it to that final point of the game where it all comes to a conclusion. Shame most people don't seem to realize this. Granted it's not to surprising given how many people seem to be confused with the plot even after reading the data-log despite the simple concepts being blatantly obvious early on through cutscenes... sigh.
#26 Posted by TwoOneFive (9787 posts) -
@Nekrosis said:
 56:12:26 time played   
so.... holy shit. you mean to tell me all of you guys played through that shit in the first 10-20 hours?
#27 Posted by AuthenticM (4247 posts) -

What I want to know is why are Vanille and Fang still crystalized at the end but not the others?

#28 Posted by Etaber (167 posts) -

I'd been following the story pretty well and I enjoyed the game overall but the ending didn't make a lick of sense to me. What was that fire-dog-woman thing Fang turned into there for a bit? I thought it was Ragnorok but obviously it wasn't considering what happened a couple of cutscenes later.

#29 Posted by ZenaxPure (2584 posts) -
@Etaber said:
"  What was that fire-dog-woman thing Fang turned into there for a bit? "
I just assumed it was Super Saiyan level 4. And that's what I will always think it was >_>
#30 Posted by Veektarius (5433 posts) -
@Mourne:  My problem with the Orphan forms wasn't actually incluing Vanille, it was incluing Sazh, and using him as my synergist.  Essentially, Sazh has every spell that matters by that point except one, veil, which I had honestly never learned the proper use of.   I ended up going online, and when I found out I felt stupid and the fight felt a lot less unreasonable.  Orphan instant KO-ed my leader twice, though, and I was wearing a death resistance accessory.   
@Etaber:  I think the much more diminutive form she takes on first
is an imperfect form - she fails to destroy Orphan, after all, because anger isn't what motivates her, like Vanille explains.  When they do it for the right reasons later she gets the effective, proper form of ragnarok.  As for why she was able to turn into it at will, she always was - Orphan himself commands her to turn back into Ragnarok when he's torturing her, which implies it's up to her when to do it.  Why Vanille had to be involved isn't clear, but she never explains exactly what her part was in the original formation of Ragnarok where she and Fang were turned into crystal.  Force of will really was the reason the rest of the party doesn't stay as C'ieth - weak of an explanation as it is, it's not just video games that use it.  
#31 Posted by NeoUltima (233 posts) -

One thing I don't get...Why kill Orphan? Nobody wanted to be Ragnarok because they didn't want to kill Orphan cause that would destroy Cocoon...Yet just because they kill it without Ragnarok they think everything will be fine?

#32 Posted by GunslingerPanda (5030 posts) -
#33 Posted by Hailinel (25787 posts) -
@AuthenticM said:
" What I want to know is why are Vanille and Fang still crystalized at the end but not the others? "

#34 Posted by VanRedd (55 posts) -

I still can't really tell you anything about what happened in this game. People use the excuse that all the Final Fantasies have lackluster stories but XIII is just a mess. All the other games had a plot you could at least basically follow and, for the most part, explained why most of the stuff going on was happening.

#35 Posted by Tebbit (4575 posts) -
@VanRedd said:
" I still can't really tell you anything about what happened in this game. People use the excuse that all the Final Fantasies have lackluster stories but XIII is just a mess. All the other games had a plot you could at least basically follow and, for the most part, explained why most of the stuff going on was happening. "
To counter your argument, I gotta say that FFXIII has probably the most coherent and easily followable plot of any of the series so far. At least in my opinion.
#36 Posted by ShadowofIntent (285 posts) -

I also thought it was very followable, especially if you took the time to read the datalogs as you got them.

#37 Posted by tenfour (13 posts) -

Some story stuff just didn't make sense.  They spend half the game saying they refuse to kill Orphan, but then spend all of the last chapter running TOWARD Orphan, and then attacking it!  There is no explanation for it. They just say stuff like "ready?" and "Let's show these Fal'cie something." 
Another question they should have resolved...Were all Pulse and Cocoon Fal'cie working together to destroy Cocoon?  Titan doesn't seem to care what they're doing when he meets them.  And that underground Fal'cie likes to give them free rides around in the caves!  If all the Cocoon Fal'cie also wanted to die, why couldn't one of them created L'cie for that purpose long before the events of the game? 
And what, other than completing a focus, turns someone to crystal? Sarah and Vanille didn't finish theirs before turning.  And what makes everyone able to wake up from crystal at the end?
I couldn't figure out what happened on Gran Pulse. Was Oerba basically a village of people living in the ruins of an ancient advanced city, or were they an advanced city that crumbled after the great war with Cocoon?

#38 Posted by ShadowofIntent (285 posts) -
@tenfour: They basically go through the whole game with a figure it out as we go attitude.  The fal'cie waited until the events of the game because until then the number of sacrifices (humans) wasn't big enough.  Serah's focus was to bring potential l'cie to Anima which she accidentally did.  Vanille's focus was to turn into ragnarok which she did.  The population of gran pulse fell apart due to the feral pulse fal'cie constantly giving them unreasonable foci.

#39 Posted by fatalframer39 (30 posts) -

I had like... 80hrs clocked in by the time I finally got to Orphan. Once I got to Gran Pulse I doddled around for houuuurrrss just killing everyone and everything over.. and over. Haha. So Orphan wasn't terribly hard in my opinion. Anyways - about the ending. 
Did anyone like.. cry. 
Or am I a complete panzy? But I loved Vanille. She was amazing. <3

#40 Posted by tenfour (13 posts) -

Why does Orphan fight back????????? haha

#41 Posted by ti3n_t (3 posts) -

 @Periscope said:

    " what exactly were the fal'cie? "

Well it's hard to imagine for humans, since there's no real higher being then us, but imagine that chickens were humans and we were fal'cie. we (fal'cie) feed and nurture these chickens (cocoon citizens) who just run around eating and poopin without realizing that one day we were going to kill all the chickens for a huge family banquet (sacrifice). And asking why they were there is like asking why do polar bears exist etc.  just cause lol.
Like Killjoi said, It was a Fal'cie illusion, to try and spark fang into turning into Ragnorok. I remember they actually did have an explanation as to why they appeared again, initially they were stuck in some alternate world or something and came back but I can't remember why (was at 4am lol trying to finish it)  @Periscope said:

    " What allowed Vanille and Fang to turn into Ragnarok at the end, and why was it only possible for someone to take the form of Ragnarok at that point in time?  Story convenience?  Power ups? "

I'm pretty sure it's was because their god listened to their prayers. They knew their focus so knew Fang was going to become Ragnorok but  Vanille was praying that they could save the world/they wouldn't have to destroy cocoon and kill all it's inhabitants. I rememeber at the end she was saying he listened/answered our prayers when they were in crystal form. Their God came back, turned all the Pulse invaders into Ragnorok to stop Cocoon from destroying Pulse.
I just finished the game, was so awesome, on par with Mass Effect 2 IMO, better story but ME2 had better gameplay.


#42 Posted by ti3n_t (3 posts) -

 @NeoUltima: They were trying to stop barthadalus. I don't think they wanted to destroy Orphan until after they talked, since when Fang was going to destroy it they tried to stop her. The reason they ended up doing it though, is because I think they knew that destroying the falcie/orphan would set everyone free from their will, assassinating an oppressive dictator  is a real world example. I mean yeah things could go mad, but I think they were hoping that Cocoon citizens could adapt to life on Pulse free of Fal'cie control. ragnorok would be summoned to destroy cocoon, destroying the Fal'cie wouldn't exactly so anything apart from killing their source of power/food but people can always be self sufficient. What I don't get is why cocoon started falling into Pulse, do Fal'cie control gravity and mass too?
 @tenfour:   Pulse and Cocoon Fal'cie working together to destroy Cocoon?
Pretty much. I know Barthandalus controlled all Cocoon Fal'cie and wanted cocoon destroyed to call on his god. I doubt they were working with Pulse Fal'cie, they had a massive war where cocoon defended itself and won so I don't that was preorchastrated otherwise they would have just let themselves lose, I don't know if  Cocoon Fal'cie can create L'cie to kill themselves, since it was pulse l'cie who ended up killing the Cocoon Falcie. If they can, then maybe they weren't strong enough or refused to destroy their own world and became Cieth. I'm pretty sure barthandalus only came up with the idea recently, since he could have let Ragnorok finish him during that massive war they had but Cocoon pulled through.    
And what, other than completing a focus, turns someone to crystal?  
They were useful since they followed their focus but weren't able to complete it, so maybe the Fal'cie decided to put them on hold rather then letting  them turn into C'ieth/die of old age. I think Pulse Fal'cie were waiting for the oppurtunity to strike, when a few strong people stumbled into a dormant vestige a few hundred years later, and could be used to lead the two original l'cie right to Orphan and destroy Cocoon.
And im prety sure what happened in grand pulse is a mystery, since Fang and Vanille had been in a crystal stasis for hundreds of years and couldn't have known. Or maybe it would be explained by the sidequests (never got round to them) or maybe they just all turned into C'ieth. But I'm pretty sure it's intentionally left ambiguous, maybe for you to find out in FFXII-2


#43 Edited by pizzalunchables (32 posts) -

I enjoyed the ending. Certainly there were a few little details that weren't perfectly clear but the character moments were good, like Sazh running up to his son (cue warm fuzzy feeling).
However, as I think someone hinted  at earlier, the ending would have been MUCH stronger if the characters would have stayed crystal, leaving us to wonder what crystal stasis is really like and to think about their sacrifice.
Reminds me of another ending I was disappointed with ...

Maybe I'm just a sucker for ambiguity, or perhaps game developers with big ass budgets and long ass production times aren't willing to alienate a SINGLE customer with a deliciously unsatisfying ending.
I dunno, anyone agree or am I crazy?
EDIT: It was luce who seemed to feel the same I guess...
 @luce said:

 As for the ending..yeah it would've been cool if everyone stayed crystal "

#44 Posted by Lunchbox420 (2 posts) -

Hated the ending. what a waste of my time. i thought it was going to be longer. seems they are loosing they're touch. cool concept, horrible character names and personalities. like the fast paced fighting. everything else was a huge dissapointment. thats just my look on this game.
hope they step it up next round

#45 Edited by Beforet (3006 posts) -

I just replayed the game for shits and cheevos and, knowing what I was in for and so paying extra attention, I still have no idea what the hell happened in that ending and I'm still really bummed about the fact that the Datalog doesn't update to explain the one part of the game that needs it the most. I'm also really bummed that I got 0 stars on the last form of Orphan because I thought I was doing a pretty swag job. I just don't know how they expect me to finish under 3 minutes, let alone 2.

By the by, I actually found this thread, not by searching the site, but by googling "final fantasy xiii ending wat." Second result. So congrats for that, gentlemen. You managed that despite leaving the thread dead for 6 months now.

I'm gonna kill some turtles.

#46 Posted by Shoki (35 posts) -

Just finished in 61 hours. The fight with Orphan was like banging my head into a wall. It felt so good when it ended. It insta-killed us 3 times in a row. Reloaded a save and bought anti-death gear. I was so pissed off at the Orphan fight that I couldn't have any emotion for the ending. Good riddance to all of it!

Now to start on FFXIII-2!

#47 Posted by Morrow (1870 posts) -


Doesn't Orphan give you Death anyways? I always thought you automatically get the Death countdown once the fight lasts longer than a certain period of time and the point is to finally defeat Orphan before the countdown ends...

#48 Posted by Galiant (2216 posts) -

The story made so much more sense the second time I played through it. I actually really enjoyed it by then, there were too many new concepts and similar names thrown around that it got difficult to follow on my first playthrough.

#49 Posted by DanTheGamer32 (253 posts) -

@Signpost: ahhhh. Hindsight.... :')

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