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#1 Posted by BisonHero (6531 posts) -

Hearing Jeff and Vinny talk about refusing to use the sensor bar with their Wii U just seems shortsighted to me. Nintendo, for whatever reason, has committed to making the Wii U a weird half sequel to the Wii, where there is only one gamepad (for the foreseeable future) and all multiplayer games are going to require Wii remotes (and potentially pointing).

Get over it. You're going to need the sensor bar, and Pikmin 3 is a good place to start.

#2 Edited by Sterling (2301 posts) -

No. You are operating under the assumption that they even like and or use the Wii U to play games. Which they have all made abundantly clear that they neither like, nor use the Wii U to play games. So it doesn't really matter if they hooked up the sensor bar or not. And I share their opinion of the sensor bar.

#3 Posted by BisonHero (6531 posts) -

@outside_potty_machine: Sure, much of the staff will either not use their Wii U at all, or in Brad's case, avoid buying one altogether. That part is fine.

But Vinny is at least interested in playing Pikmin 3. If he's going to play it, why not try both the gamepad control configuration and the remote + nunchuk configuration? Not every game is going to be some kind of from-the-ground-up new idea that fully utilizes the gamepad screen. Plenty of Wii games barely used motion controls (Super Paper Mario had a tacked-on pointing mechanic, as did Super Mario Galaxy, and Donkey Kong Country Returns and New Super Mario Bros. Wii mapped certain actions to waggle instead of a proper button). Plenty of Wii U games are barely going to use the gamepad screen/features (Pikmin 3 primarily needing it for the map, but otherwise very playable with Wii remote + nunchuk).

Saying "Fuck that, I'm done with pointing at stuff with Wii remotes" while trying to play a game that controls perfectly fine (and is more precise) with Wii remote pointing seems counterproductive.

#4 Posted by Irvandus (2879 posts) -

No I find it understandable. They purchased a Wii U wanting to use the Wii U gamepad. At this point they are tired of playing games with the old Wii remote.

#5 Posted by Hailinel (24811 posts) -

@irvandus said:

No I find it understandable. They purchased a Wii U wanting to use the Wii U gamepad. At this point they are tired of playing games with the old Wii remote.

But as long as games offer the option to use the Wii Remote (as is the case with Pikmin 3), it seems odd to abjectly refuse to hook the sensor bar up. The thing takes up next to no space and doesn't require an external power source. Its level of intrusiveness is negligible.

#6 Edited by MikkaQ (10290 posts) -

@irvandus said:

No I find it understandable. They purchased a Wii U wanting to use the Wii U gamepad. At this point they are tired of playing games with the old Wii remote.

Yep, this is my reasoning too. Plus I have no idea where my Wii remote or nunchuk are.

#7 Posted by Sterling (2301 posts) -

Saying "Fuck that, I'm done with pointing at stuff with Wii remotes" while trying to play a game that controls perfectly fine (and is more precise) with Wii remote pointing seems counterproductive.

It also plays perfectly fine with the gamepad. Wii U games are made to be played with the gamepad. Wiimotes are optional. So you don't have to hook up the sensor bar. So I still fail to see your point here. I myself have also never hooked up the sensor bar. I am done with Wiimotes and anything Wii. My Wii U is only used to play Wii U games. Which I play with either the gamepad or the pro controller.

You can see that as childish as you want, that is your opinion. Its an option however, one that many choose not to use. That doesn't make it childish. It just means you have a different opinion, and you enjoy games in a different way. Not everyone was a fan of the Wii in the first place, or cares for motion gaming.

#8 Posted by Sterling (2301 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@irvandus said:

No I find it understandable. They purchased a Wii U wanting to use the Wii U gamepad. At this point they are tired of playing games with the old Wii remote.

But as long as games offer the option to use the Wii Remote (as is the case with Pikmin 3), it seems odd to abjectly refuse to hook the sensor bar up. The thing takes up next to no space and doesn't require an external power source. Its level of intrusiveness is negligible.

You answered yourself. Its an option. It is not required. Not everyone likes it. Why is this so hard to grasp.

I also just realized, I don't know why I give a damn.

#9 Edited by DarthOrange (3864 posts) -

Nintendo, for whatever reason, has committed to making the Wii U a weird half sequel to the Wii, where there is only one gamepad (for the foreseeable future) and all multiplayer games are going to require Wii remotes (and potentially pointing).

Most multiplayer games out now and coming in the future on Wii U let you use the pro controller.

#10 Posted by BisonHero (6531 posts) -

@darthorange said:

@bisonhero said:

Nintendo, for whatever reason, has committed to making the Wii U a weird half sequel to the Wii, where there is only one gamepad (for the foreseeable future) and all multiplayer games are going to require Wii remotes (and potentially pointing).

Most multiplayer games out now and coming in the future on Wii U let you use the pro controller.

Fair enough, I misspoke. Still, they've pushed the "benefit" that "Hey guys, you already have a bunch of controllers for the Wii because all of your Wii remotes still work!". You're still potentially skipping out on an entire control method if you refuse to hook up the sensor bar.

#11 Posted by TheHBK (5485 posts) -

Hearing Jeff and Vinny talk about refusing to use the sensor bar with their Wii U just seems shortsighted to me. Nintendo, for whatever reason, has committed to making the Wii U a weird half sequel to the Wii, where there is only one gamepad (for the foreseeable future) and all multiplayer games are going to require Wii remotes (and potentially pointing).

Get over it. You're going to need the sensor bar, and Pikmin 3 is a good place to start.

No, because fuck the sensor bar.

#12 Edited by TruthTellah (9100 posts) -

@bisonhero: If they review a Wii U game with modes that require a sensor bar without using the sensor bar, it should be noted in the review that they didn't look at those modes.

As far as their own personal choice at home with what they play, they can do whatever they please. It isn't childish to prefer not having it hooked up. They might have 360's without their Kinects hooked up either. It's just an additional accessory that they are under no obligation to have hooked up.

#13 Posted by Sanity (1907 posts) -

That cord tangles on everything... I hate the sensor bar and can totally understand why they loathe it.

#14 Posted by jakelyne (23 posts) -

Yeah, the only reason mine's hooked up at the moment is so I can play Kirby's Epic Yarn. After that, it's going in a box.

#15 Posted by Nictel (2412 posts) -

Real men use two candles instead.

#16 Posted by Jimbo (9813 posts) -

You started it.

#17 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

Yes I think it is a little childish, but at the same time fuck that thing. Motion gaming is over just like plastic instruments. No one cares anymore, and I never played a single game other than Wario Ware and Wii Sports that actually put that thing to good use. The guys don't feel like flailing their arms around anymore, and frankly, I don't think anyone else does either.

#18 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

it issssss their job.. kinda. but also fuck waggle.

#19 Posted by spraynardtatum (2959 posts) -

I don't have mine hooked up and I actually like the Wii U.

I probably won't connect it unless a game requires it.

#20 Edited by FunkasaurasRex (847 posts) -

It's kinda dumb considering that it takes minimal effort to set the thing up and some games require or benefit from the motion controller. I don't really give a fuck what they do though, I mostly listen to them for dumb antics and obscure hip hop references.

#21 Posted by SnakeLinkSonic (274 posts) -

Take up space my butt. That cord is an absolute pest for me.

#22 Edited by jimmyfenix (3855 posts) -

Wii U...Thats the joke...no thats too harsh i think. It really needs that system seller.

#23 Posted by Haziqonfire (227 posts) -

It is a dumb reason, but they play what they want to and cover the games they want to cover.

The GB staff doesn't cover Nintendo as much as I'd like them to, and it's kind of their job (and games journalism in general) to cover the Wii U. There's 3 major consoles to cover, but there are far too many times where I hear inaccuracies or ignorance about Nintendo's console - not just here, but on a lot of game sites. Thank god for Patrick and Alex though, giving Nintendo some attention at least.

Though really, I don't come to Giant Bomb for Nintendo specific content. I come here because everyone has a great personality, is incredibility entertaining and Patrick/Alex have some great features here. So while I do find it kind of annoying, they really just play games they want to play and cover, which is fine, they don't have a huge staff to cover everything.

#24 Posted by Bane122 (789 posts) -

A little but at the same time it's terrible that Pikmin apparently works so much better with the old controllers. Vinny nailed it with his point about wanting to play a Wii U game with Wii U hardware, or however he put it. Nintendo has yet to make a case for the Gamepad and that's a damn shame.

#25 Posted by Haziqonfire (227 posts) -

@bane122 said:

A little but at the same time it's terrible that Pikmin apparently works so much better with the old controllers. Vinny nailed it with his point about wanting to play a Wii U game with Wii U hardware, or however he put it. Nintendo has yet to make a case for the Gamepad and that's a damn shame.

Pikmin 3 really is just better with the older controls. The problem is much larger though, the Wii U messaging is really confusing. People still think it's a Wii add-on. Using the Wii brand was ultimately a mistake, the marketing has been atrocious and the fact that it's compatible with the older control schemes is going to cause more confusion.

Plus the GamePad is kind of more intimidating than the Wii Remote was for people, even though it's technically just a traditional pad with a screen in the middle. The Wii Remote was easy to get for people from the get-go and it was easy for Nintendo to make games that utilized the controller in an interesting way. I think they're going to take a long time until they find some interesting uses for the GamePad, other than Nintendo Land.

#26 Posted by laserbolts (5322 posts) -

Who gives a fuck motion controls are stupid.

#27 Posted by Haziqonfire (227 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

Who gives a fuck motion controls are stupid.

They were done pretty well in Skyward Sword. In cases where you need a pointer or reticle, the Wii Remote is pretty useful.

#28 Posted by laserbolts (5322 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

Who gives a fuck motion controls are stupid.

They were done pretty well in Skyward Sword. In cases where you need a pointer or reticle, the Wii Remote is pretty useful.

Rather just use a normal controller to play Zelda. Have never enjoyed a game that uses the wiimote or Kinect.

#29 Edited by Haziqonfire (227 posts) -
@laserbolts said:

Rather just use a normal controller to play Zelda. Have never enjoyed a game that uses the wiimote or Kinect.

I wouldn't want to play a "normal" Zelda game (I guess) with the Wii Remote but considering Skyward Sword was designed with it in mind, it was well done in my opinion.

My guess is the new Zelda won't use the Wii Remote and Nintendo will just opt out for a traditional control scheme with the GamePad/Pro Controller.

#30 Posted by mosespippy (4185 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

Who gives a fuck motion controls are stupid.

They were done pretty well in Skyward Sword. In cases where you need a pointer or reticle, the Wii Remote is pretty useful.

In cases where you need a pointer or reticle a mouse is vastly superior. A joystick has worked perfectly fine as well for about a decade. A Wiimote remains the worst option of the three.

#31 Edited by ThePickle (4182 posts) -

It might not be the most responsible thing to do as video game journalists, but "childish" seems harsh.

Childish is giving up on Red Dead Redemption after 3 hours or just not playing Last of Us.

#32 Edited by BisonHero (6531 posts) -

@thepickle said:

It might not be the most responsible thing to do as video game journalists, but "childish" seems harsh.

Yeah, maybe, but I usually reserve "irresponsible" for someone who drinks and drives or something, and it doesn't seem like the right word for "some games journalists arbitrarily refusing to use one of the control methods for a console".

#33 Posted by gamecommaperiod (22 posts) -

Utilizing a control scheme that is a hold over from the previous system should not be Vinny's concern, or anyone's really. As a Wii U game it should be held to the controls available in the Wii U box. Expecting anything else seems like needless nit picking.

#34 Edited by Rowr (5660 posts) -

@outside_potty_machine: Sure, much of the staff will either not use their Wii U at all, or in Brad's case, avoid buying one altogether. That part is fine.

Not ANY game is going to be some kind of from-the-ground-up new idea that fully utilizes the gamepad screen.

Fixed.

#35 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

Children love gimmicky crap, adults hate bullshit.

#36 Edited by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

Unless you get upset when someone doesn't try every single control scheme for a game, you shouldn't get upset because someone chooses not to use wii motion controls in a game where that control scheme is completely optional.

#37 Edited by BisonHero (6531 posts) -

@rowr said:

@bisonhero said:

@outside_potty_machine: Sure, much of the staff will either not use their Wii U at all, or in Brad's case, avoid buying one altogether. That part is fine.

Not ANY game is going to be some kind of from-the-ground-up new idea that fully utilizes the gamepad screen.

Fixed.

That's not really a very good sentence, but sure, I basically agree. Nintendoland might be the only game we really see that actually tries to use the gamepad in a bunch of clever ways. Most other games are probably going to play like pretty standard games, using d-pad + analog stick + face buttons + shoulder buttons.

I doubt very many Wii U games will use the gamepad screen as intrinsically as ZombiU, which is all the more reason to not be married to the concept of "I bought this Wii U that has a gamepad, and I'm gonna use that gamepad, dammit!", which is sorta how they were talking on the Bombcast. I'm not advocating that the Wii remote is SO SUPER IMPORTANT that you need to try to use it whenever possible and ALWAYS have the sensor bar plugged in, but c'mon, having a Wii remote-controlled cursor is pretty useful in Pikmin.

#38 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

no, what i find childish is that people have a problem with how other people play single player games.

#39 Edited by Dalai (7030 posts) -

They can use the console however they please. It's not childish, but it is dumb. The Wii U comes with a sensor bar so you might as well hook it up despite the shitty cord.

#40 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Fuck the man! You can't sensor(bar) me!

#41 Posted by Haziqonfire (227 posts) -

In cases where you need a pointer or reticle a mouse is vastly superior. A joystick has worked perfectly fine as well for about a decade. A Wiimote remains the worst option of the three.

A mouse is probably your best bet, but given a choice of using an analogue stick or a pointer for Pikmin 3, I'd pick the pointer controls, without a question. It's just wait easier and analogue gets in the way IMO.

#42 Edited by Picsl (202 posts) -

It's strange that they do not even hook it up since it is so small and sits inoffensively on top of the TV (or underneath, I guess, if you are a crazy person), but I do sort of see where they are coming from. Wii U is primarily not a motion controlled console, and all games function without using it, unless we're talking certain multiplayer modes, which none of the bombcasters have much interest in (generally speaking). To me it comes off as a principle thing. They don't want to hook it up because they consider themselves done with the Wii, and motion controls in general, and not plugging it in acts like a symbolic 'fuck you' to the whole thing.

Besides, it's not like they are missing out on much by not using it, so what does it matter?

#43 Posted by fibabanchi (42 posts) -

I don't see why you wouldn't connect the sensor bar. Not like its some enormous slab of plastic

#44 Edited by Daneian (1229 posts) -

No, I think Nintendo should optimize games for the hardware that's in the box for their system, not expect you to either already own a Wii remote or that you'll go out and buy one.

#45 Posted by Hailinel (24811 posts) -

@daneian said:

No, I think Nintendo should optimize games for the hardware that's in the box for their system, not expect you to either already own a Wii remote or that you'll go out and buy one.

The console contains a full emulated Wii mode. It's impossible to play any Wii game on the system without the Wii Remote, and many Wii games requires a sensor bar. If owned a Wii before a Wii U, you probably have at least one Wii Remote sitting around your house.

#46 Edited by HatKing (5952 posts) -

I don't see why you wouldn't connect the sensor bar. Not like its some enormous slab of plastic

There is something about that tiny wire that manages to tangle itself up with anything else behind your television. When I had a roommate, he brought a Wii to the apartment once, the sensor bar practically fused itself to my HDMI cords and power cords and such.

Online
#47 Edited by Daneian (1229 posts) -
@hailinel said:

@daneian said:

No, I think Nintendo should optimize games for the hardware that's in the box for their system, not expect you to either already own a Wii remote or that you'll go out and buy one.

The console contains a full emulated Wii mode. It's impossible to play any Wii game on the system without the Wii Remote, and many Wii games requires a sensor bar. If owned a Wii before a Wii U, you probably have at least one Wii Remote sitting around your house.

Absolutely and the wii did the same thing with its gamecube emulation requiring either a gc or classic controller. But when we talk about the emulation, we're already talking about someone who is actively making the choice to keep their wii around.

In cases like Pikmin 3, its a WiiU game so I don't necessarily think it should come with the same expectations. I can't think of a single wii game that took advantage of- and certainly none that were better with- the gamecube's controller. Would you have felt this way if they had?

I tend to lean to this side of the argument about any game that uses the functionality of a separate piece of hardware be it a racing wheel, fight stick or kinekt. Its nice the option is there but you need to account for the play experience of those who only have the systems base components.

#48 Posted by jArmAhead (302 posts) -

@darthorange said:

@bisonhero said:

Nintendo, for whatever reason, has committed to making the Wii U a weird half sequel to the Wii, where there is only one gamepad (for the foreseeable future) and all multiplayer games are going to require Wii remotes (and potentially pointing).

Most multiplayer games out now and coming in the future on Wii U let you use the pro controller.

Fair enough, I misspoke. Still, they've pushed the "benefit" that "Hey guys, you already have a bunch of controllers for the Wii because all of your Wii remotes still work!". You're still potentially skipping out on an entire control method if you refuse to hook up the sensor bar.

No one likes using those god damned things. This isn't a fair and balanced website. They don't like that shit, so they don't put up with it. I owned a Wii for all of a week before returning it because I hated the Wii controls so damned much. It does not surprise me in the least that they are 100% done with that crap.

#49 Posted by agentboolen (1786 posts) -

@bisonhero: I gotta say I remember playing Pikmin 2 with aiming the wii remote at the sensor bar and remember hating my experience. Seem annoying always having your arm up to guide the Pikmin. For Pikmin 3 I would hope it could be played with out the wii remote.

Online
#50 Posted by Hailinel (24811 posts) -

@daneian said:
@hailinel said:

@daneian said:

No, I think Nintendo should optimize games for the hardware that's in the box for their system, not expect you to either already own a Wii remote or that you'll go out and buy one.

The console contains a full emulated Wii mode. It's impossible to play any Wii game on the system without the Wii Remote, and many Wii games requires a sensor bar. If owned a Wii before a Wii U, you probably have at least one Wii Remote sitting around your house.

Absolutely and the wii did the same thing with its gamecube emulation requiring either a gc or classic controller. But when we talk about the emulation, we're already talking about someone who is actively making the choice to keep their wii around.

In cases like Pikmin 3, its a WiiU game so I don't necessarily think it should come with the same expectations. I can't think of a single wii game that took advantage of- and certainly none that were better with- the gamecube's controller. Would you have felt this way if they had?

I tend to lean to this side of the argument about any game that uses the functionality of a separate piece of hardware be it a racing wheel, fight stick or kinekt. Its nice the option is there but you need to account for the play experience of those who only have the systems base components.

Actually, a lot of games like Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn did offer GameCube controller support as an option. Not the primary option or necessarily the best option, but it was an option. Some games with GC controller support also had a separate option for turning on or off the controller rumble, which the Wii Classic Controller didn't support.