6 Sexist Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts

@darji: I'll admit, having a statistic noting who's playing which types of games would be helpful. But nonetheless, the fact remains that the male demographic shouldn't really be the only demographic we should pay attention to in terms of making games that appeal to a new audience.

I would counter that it depends on the game. It does not bring any benefits if you change male dominated games so also some females will enjoy them. That is why I think that we do not need to change games but rather add new alternatives. And to see that we need statistics on what they are playing. If for example 80% of females play casual and puzzle games then there is no need or it does not even make sense to change the shooter genre and make it more women friendly.

A Woman who only plays the Sims 3 will not change her opinion about some shooter just because it is starring a female protagonist.

Im imposing a new OFFICIAL rule. Everyone needs to follow this: All sexism topics from now on can only be started by women as confirmed by their premium membership and the name on their credit card.

I purposefully ignored this thread for a week because these always turn out bad. My curiosity just got the better of me and I can't believe your source is Cracked. Should've kept ignoring.

I bet either of my nipples that this 45% includes all people that play Angry Birds on their iPhone, which is believable. But if we're saying 45% of PS3 and 360 gamers are females, I don't believe it one bit. I purposely say "PS3 and 360" because AAA games (That aren't from Nintendo) seem to be the main issue here. For every girl you see in (CoD) multiplayer or game websites, there are 100 dudes. So I think Mikes statement is accurate. Girls will always be in the minority when it comes to PS3 & 360 games. So yeah, with the Wii and smart phones, 45% makes a lot of sense. But we're talking about PS3 & 360 games here and these games are marketed towards the majority, which are us dudes. Unless all these guys are actually woman (transvestites). But that's highly unlikely.

I see Darji already responded to you. Now I feel... wrong.

This ad infinitum.

Have any proof of this? Or any proof that if the stats were the same, you wouldn't dismiss those women as "simply playing Kinectimals and Eyepet and all that other casual bullshit"? And how do people explain the fact that these stats remain pretty much the same over a five year period despite iPhone/Facebook games only becoming really big in the past few years or so? What the hell is it with this utterly dismissive hardcore gamer elitism?

And on a purely semantic level, just because somebody is in the minority doesn't make it morally right (or even intelligent) to ignore their demands. Politics and history bear this out.

"Every time she cried, missed a jump (and then cried), or killed a person in self-defense (followed by crying), I wanted Laura Mulvey to spoon me and tell me everything was going to be all right. I get that it's an "origin" story, before Lara became badass, but when we saw young Indiana Jones at the start of the Last Crusade, it wasn't extended shots of him weeping and trying to wipe a snotty nose on his leather coat."

Well I guess that makes Tomb Raider more realistic than the Last Crusade, I guess the the issue isn't the portrayal of women but of men. I'm not saying the industry doesn't have a problem in portrayal of characters but there is issues with both women and men. Also I don't think games are that much more sexist than any other media, which again just reflects our culture in general.

@video_game_king: You literally just ignored everything else I said. I wasn't dismissing the casual audience at all. I said that study no doubt includes the people who play on smartphones and it makes sense but not with the discussion we're having. We're talking about AAA games like The Last of Us and Tomb Raider. Do we really need a study for something that is common sense? On this website, I can count the number of girls I've seen on the forums without needing all 10 fingers. On GameInfomer, I have only ever seen 1 girl who posts there. Polygon, PlayStation Lifestyle and the PS Blog are just dudes dudes dudes. When you go into a game store, do you see a girl shopping for games or a dude? Whenever I go into a GameStop, it's dudes and if there's a girl, she's with her boyfriend. Does that mean those are the only girls who visit game websites and stores? Hell no. But what does it say when you go on a video game websites forum and guys outnumber girls 100 to 1. Hell, probably 1,000 to 1.

Onto my second point. As I said, how many of these girls that DO play PS3 & 360 actually care about games like The Last of Us or Tomb Raider? This question should answer itself but I'll answer it anyway. The majority of girls that I see on sites like Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc. that play CONSOLE games are playing 2 things. Call of Duty & Grand Theft Auto. That's it. The majority of these girls don't give two fucks about other games. The girls that I know (Not from the internet) that play video games play these 2 things. Only 1 girl that I knew played all sorts of games. 1. So how does it look when the majority of girls that play Xbox & PS3 only play 2 franchises and on top of that, are STILL outnumbered by dudes 100 to 1. I don't think I've ever seen more then 15 girls on PSN (Excluding the girls I was friends with because I knew them personally.) in these past 5 years of playing video games and I've played all the Call of Duty's. And trust me, when there's a girl on PSN without a mic, she let's it be known she's a girl through her girly gamertag. Unless it's a dude using a girl gamertag.

Now to point 3. You say this study hasn't changed in the last 5 years and that smart phones and Facebook weren't that relevant back then. Smart phones definitely weren't. But I was in high school in 2008. Sophomore year. Guess what all the girls were playing? Farmville. 2009? Farmville. 2010? Farmville. What else were girls playing back then? Wii Sports. Mario. Wii Fit. The Wii was the best selling console this gen so I'd imagine quite a lot of girls were playing these games during the past 5 years.

Now to my last point which isn't really a point. I never said it was right on a moral or intelligent level to ignore the minority. It's stupid when a game doesn't have different control schemes or a color blind mode, etc. for people that need those options. Those people are in the minority though so do you think the developer/publisher is going to care? Nope. So do you think they'll market games to females who are obviously in the minority when it comes to the PS3 & 360? Not likely. They're making their money off of guys. Follow the money.

And just for the hell of it, I'm going to leave my GTA V cave on Saturday, go outside and ask as many girls as I can if they play video games, if they know what a PS3 or 360 is and what was the last video game that came out that they know of that ISN'T some sport game, Nintendo game, Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto. Because those are easy answers. Let's see how many girls in New York knew about The Last of Us or Saints Row 4. I'll get back to you on this and if 5 girls know about games that aren't listed above, I'll eat a sock. (No I won't.)

P.S. I wasn't trying to argue with you, dismiss your claim or be a "hardcore video game elitist". I was agreeing with you when it comes to that study and games overall. But not when it comes to the topic you were arguing. So I don't know why you were annoyed by my response. (You seem annoyed.)

Well, yea. Common sense is fucking stupid. Common sense is based on personal experience (at least from what you're saying in your post), and since everybody has different personal experiences, common sense can lead us to very different answers.

Have you seen how many times people have dismissed that stat from before (not counting the essay here)? It fucking gets to you, man. And reading your response, it still sounds really, really dismissive and down-putting, like girls have to go out of their way to prove that they're these hardcore gamers (as much as I like the term casual gamer, I absolutely revile hardcore gamer), even though you don't place anywhere near that same amount of scrutiny on men.

@video_game_king: Okay. Let me ask you a question. Do you honestly think that girls have a chance at outnumbering guys in the Xbox 360 & PS3 area?

I didn't see how many times people responded to you until after I responded so I get what you mean. Anyway, I don't know what I can say to not sound "dismissive of girls" except that from what I see on the internet, from personal experience & girls I know that do play PS3 and Xbox, they only play CoD & GTA and that's not a lot compared to guys. The girls that do play more then these 2 franchises are in a way smaller group then the ones that only play the games I said above. Also, we aren't talking about men but I have the same mindset for them. I believe most guys that have an Xbox or PS3 only play CoD & GTA beside everyone on these game forums. I went to 2 high schools. I have 3 siblings who go to school. 2 are currently in high school and the other went to 2 high schools and I'm a college student. I'd say 90% of the guys that me and my 3 siblings know/knew only play(ed) GTA, CoD and sports. I'm not lumping them into this topic because this is about girls. But if it was about both genders, I'd be just as hard pressed on dudes. I have to go so I can't keep typing atm

Maybe not, but I severely doubt it's gonna be, say, 1 girl for every 200 guys or something like that. Then again, I am wary of my own estimates since I don't have a very good methodology to back up that claim.

Morally? Games are not there to be role models. Games are there because they sell and you will get what will sell. It is not a question of ethics games serve a market.

VGK isn't saying there is anything moral about video games but other social dynamics that have bigger, more visible, and more impact show that there is an issues. Dismissing gender balance problems in politics and history is pretty silly so why is it easily done in video games? Just because video games aren't as serious? That also seems kind of silly even though completely true.

@darji:

What about the intelligence part? Would you say that developers are willing to alienate 45% of their audience simply because they're not the majority?

That is why we need statistics what they are playing. If like 80 or 90% play facebook and casual games or even only watching netflix and co a genre like shooter do not need to change or be different. In our world there are things that are male dominated and there are things that are female dominated and all these do not have to change so the other gender can enjoy it. But overall I am totally against change but rather additions. Create new games that are interesting for both gender. Something like a Beyond: Two souls for example.

Yup, same here. I read it and felt it was reaching a bit... to put it lightly.

I like my video game gals to be as clotheless as possible as well as mayonnaise vacuums. And as close looking to the age of 12 as possible, but still with cleavage that I could lose a midget in.

So, really, not every game will please everyone. How about we shut the fuck up now before my gals are all ruined?

Thanks

So the beginning? What a shocker.

The Cracked article was pretty good, don't agree 100% with all of it but its legitimately well reasoned for the most part. The Other M part especially was something that I agreed with 100%.

Later I have read the whole thing and most of their examples are really bad. I can not say anything about Metroid because I do not care or play that series beside the SNES game but the Heavy Rain example was bad, Tomb Raider was and the Last of us was extra bad. And if you read through the whole thread you can see why I think that.

Of course it probably isn't going to be that large of a gap, I was (kind of) exaggerating with the 100 to 1 comparison. But who knows? We'll probably never get a statistic for this so we'll never know how big the gap is, but it's definitely bigger.

I made a great sexist joke today. My sister was telling me some story about a woman who was trying to run half a marathon but took a wrong turn and ran the full one, coming in 10th. She was the first woman. So I pointed out that women barely made it into the top 10 and the one that did didn't know what the fuck she was doing.

Also, which part of women's rights are 100 guys arguing about in this thread today?

No, that question in fact does not answer itself. Further, you may be shocked to realize, but your anecdotal experiences do not amount to anything when being considered as evidence for market trends involving tens of millions of people.

Hey! Another one of those threads. I love those!

*points gun to head*

Edit: Oh and I read the article. Mostly terrible arguments in my opinion. Except perhaps number 1, which yeah, there's some assholes out there.