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#1 Edited by Nixon34 (97 posts) -

I am writing this to see if i am not alone in my thinking. Last night i got fed up and closed the book on Skyrim (360) after i discovered that a bug exists in the DLC Hearthfire that causes you to be unable to remove Armor from the Created Mannequins. I recently started a 2nd playthrough because i wanted to see all the armor and weapons as well as play the other story lines. Bethesda recently announced that they are done working on Skyrim and with the mess that their game is on the ps3 and the obvious bugs they ignored in the 360 DLC, i am going to give serious thought as to whether or not i will buy their next game. I believe they have a responsiblity to at least fix bugs that exist in their DLC yet no Bethesda Employee has ever said a single word about this bug. I am just being an Internet Baby, or am i right to be pissed at them?

#2 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@nixon34 said:

I am writing this to see if i am not alone in my thinking. Last night i got fed up and closed the book on Skyrim (360) after i discovered that a bug exists in the DLC Hearthfire that causes you to be unable to remove Armor from the Created Mannequins. I recently started a 2nd playthrough because i wanted to see all the armor and weapons as well as play the other story lines. Bethesda recently announced that they are done working on Skyrim and with the mess that their game is on the ps3 and the obvious bugs they ignored in the 360 DLC, i am going to give serious thought as to whether or not i will buy their next game. I believe they have a responsiblity to at least fix bugs that exist in their DLC yet no Bethesda Employee has ever said a single word about this bug. I am just being an Internet Baby, or am i right to be pissed at them?

90% of bugs in Oblivion where fixed 100 times faster via the community. Even after Bethesda left Oblivion the community did an amazing job with their own patches. This is nothing new with Bethesda and their games.

Sadly I can also side with them because it would take ages and ages to fix every bug (Ok just gonna say it would be impossible)

As for your bug. Is it game breaking? It just sounds like its a bit of an annoying thing.

#3 Posted by McGhee (6075 posts) -

Yes, that mannequin bug is so going to keep me from ever buying Fallout 4.

BWAHAHAHAHA /sarcasm

#4 Edited by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

Bethesda kind of sucks at the fit and finish of their products. Granted they make great games but they're always kind of a mess. Best to buy their games on PC where others will fix their issues for them since they never care enough to do it themselves.

#5 Edited by Abendlaender (2887 posts) -

I'm okay with a few bugs in a gigantic open world game. I get that they are annoying but I never encountered one and if this is the trade off for having such a world than I will take it

#6 Edited by Jay_Ray (1127 posts) -

Those aren't bugs, they're features!

#7 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1673 posts) -

I'd like to play Skyrim and Fallout 3, but everything I've heard about the PS3 versions of those games makes it sound like a terrible idea. Any game that gets slower the more you play it, requires you to take technical precautions, and (I think?) regularly crashes shouldn't have been released. I get the sense that their engine's design is at odds with the way the PS3's GPU and CPU RAM is separated, but they either should have designed it with the PS3's limitations in mind, or not released their games on the PS3 at all.

If their next game appeals to me, I'd never touch it (on the PS3) until it was confirmed it wasn't the mess their previous games have been.

#8 Edited by EXTomar (4940 posts) -

*shrug* Skyrim is by far the most stable Bethesda game in a long long long time. Of course I played this on PC but I was frankly shocked that I encountered only one crash where it took to the first major patch before I saw the second crash. Granted there were all sorts of funny glitches and bugs in the game but nothing that broke or impeded my progress through any major quests or the main story line.

I think it is a reasonable attitude to take that if one believes Bethesda hasn't done enough work to address bugs then they will not buy their next game. Bethesda has a checkered past history when it comes to stability and QA because that they create incredibly complex engines that are incredibly hard to stabilize.

Another thing you may want to consider: The console itself often interferes with fixes. You might want to avoid Fallout 4 on any console because even if the bug is found it might take months before it is addressed due to testing and release procedures. And as TLM points out on PC support is often taken over by community. No one can step in and patch on consoles.

#9 Posted by Clonedzero (4196 posts) -

What are you talking about? They've supported skyrim for over a year with DLC and NINE PATCHES. Many of those patches adding free content such as mounted combat and legendary skills. They constantly worked on fixing bugs.

Saying they ignored the bugs is kinda crazy talk.

The current build of skyrim is relatively bugfree for the most part, sure theres still a bit of weirdness but yeah...its a massive open world RPG, what do you expect?

#10 Edited by TorMasturba (1089 posts) -

@nixon34 said:

I am writing this to see if i am not alone in my thinking. Last night i got fed up and closed the book on Skyrim (360) after i discovered that a bug exists in the DLC Hearth fire that causes you to be unable to remove Armor from the Created Mannequins. I recently started a 2nd play through because i wanted to see all the armor and weapons as well as play the other story lines. Bethesda recently announced that they are done working on Skyrim and with the mess that their game is on the ps3 and the obvious bugs they ignored in the 360 DLC, i am going to give serious thought as to whether or not i will buy their next game. I believe they have a responsibility to at least fix bugs that exist in their DLC yet no Bethesda Employee has ever said a single word about this bug. I am just being an Internet Baby, or am i right to be pissed at them?

Why not just cheat-spawn the armor next to you?

And sure all developers should release their games bug free but I feel like in order for such a huge world to be created and made beautiful there needs to be at least a few concessions in terms of quality control when it comes to smaller much less consequential bugs. I mean they eliminate a vast majority(at least 80%) of the bugs that were in the game before release, but in a game the size of Skyrim it would be impossible to account for all the different and completely random ways that many millions of people play their game and inadvertently trigger a bug. It just couldn't be done in one longer game development cycle of even 5 years let alone a more conservative time frame of 3.

#11 Posted by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

@tormasturba: probably has something to do with him playing on the 360...

#13 Edited by Mr_Skeleton (5154 posts) -

I don't understand why no website is reporting about this game breaking bug.

Edit: just to be clear, I was being sarcastic.

#14 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3084 posts) -

This just goes to show that you should buy Bethesda games on PC for the community patches. I bought the game on 360, but I plan on getting the Legendary Edition on PC when it comes out.

#15 Edited by MooseyMcMan (11378 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I want to say that they mostly fixed the PS3 slowdown bugs. Or at least they patched it to the point where it wasn't happening to me.

But I last played it months and months ago, so who knows, maybe those bugs reappeared.

EDIT: I mean specifically for Skyrim, I never played PS3 Fallout 3, I played that on 360.

#16 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1334 posts) -

I don't understand why no website is reporting about this game breaking bug.

Bethesda gets a free pass since no game ever featured dragon in an open world rpg.
"Bu-bu-but skyrim is so complex and you can do so many stuff! You can't fault their game for running at bad framerates, gamebreaking bugs and glitches! It's the only game in its kind! Don't complain, go play Final Fantasy you weaboos!"

Blaim the blind hype and brogamers that never played an actual good rpg before. If this was an Activision or ea developed game, people would burn the game to the ground.

#17 Posted by gaminghooligan (1483 posts) -

PC all the way for Elder Scrolls games. There are still bugs all over the place (I can't get passed the first room in Bleak Falls Barrow without the game locking up atm), but the community usually fixes or can help you find a fix for most of the problems. I feel like with games as epic as Skyrim, you just have to grin and bear the little hitches here and there. Let's face it, all the problems acknowledged, there still aren't many games with massive amount of content offered up in the ES series.

#18 Posted by MildMolasses (3229 posts) -

I don't understand why no website is reporting about this game breaking bug.

Chemtrails, Obama and lizard people

#19 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

Bethesda games are so epic a minor non game breaking bug doesn't hinder the fun at all.

#20 Posted by Evilsbane (4735 posts) -

Vanilla Skyrim ran like a dream...in fact the only time I remember a crash was because of my own computer aside from that and a couple of weird NPCs floating items random missing texture or two for having 300+ hours in a game seems amazingly stable.

#21 Posted by Nixon34 (97 posts) -

@clonedzero: I am talking about the 360 version, and the houses that they added in the Hearthfire DLC are a buggy mess. and have been since they were released.

#22 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1334 posts) -

@nixon34 said:

I am writing this to see if i am not alone in my thinking. Last night i got fed up and closed the book on Skyrim (360) after i discovered that a bug exists in the DLC Hearth fire that causes you to be unable to remove Armor from the Created Mannequins. I recently started a 2nd play through because i wanted to see all the armor and weapons as well as play the other story lines. Bethesda recently announced that they are done working on Skyrim and with the mess that their game is on the ps3 and the obvious bugs they ignored in the 360 DLC, i am going to give serious thought as to whether or not i will buy their next game. I believe they have a responsibility to at least fix bugs that exist in their DLC yet no Bethesda Employee has ever said a single word about this bug. I am just being an Internet Baby, or am i right to be pissed at them?

Why not just cheat-spawn the armor next to you?

And sure all developers should release their games bug free but I feel like in order for such a huge world to be created and made beautiful there needs to be at least a few concessions in terms of quality control when it comes to smaller much less consequential bugs. I mean they eliminate a vast majority(at least 80%) of the bugs that were in the game before release, but in a game the size of Skyrim it would be impossible to account for all the different and completely random ways that many millions of people play their game and inadvertently trigger a bug. It just couldn't be done in one longer game development cycle of even 5 years let alone a more conservative time frame of 3.

Spoken like a true Bethesda apologist, good job! Next thing you'll say is that bugs are part of the game.
Bethesda could start by throwing the GameBryo engine out the window and actually develop an engine like most earnest game developers do. It's inexcusable that the very same bugs and glitches from FallOut: New Vegas are present in skyrim. Fallout: NV was never patched because of no coverage. I'm talking about the game being unplayable on ps3 and 360 after 50 hours. Yet, they still sell the game, when will gamers learn not to buy bethesda "we didn't bug testa" garbage?

#23 Posted by Nixon34 (97 posts) -

@evilsbane: I never had a single problem with the core game. your right about that, my issue is with the DLC Hearthfire.

#24 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (3013 posts) -

Skyrim was junk and they have no shame in just delivering broken games. Their 'everything + the kitchen sink' approach to in game mechanics just drags their games down. I don't care if some people cannot see it, Bethesda makes badly engineered games. I just don't see value in putting money in their pockets for making games THEY KNOW won't run. Sure, my few pennies hardly make a difference to their bottom-line, but I'd rather not pay thieves for junk.

#25 Posted by Nixon34 (97 posts) -

@mr_skeleton: Because it was the least popular DLC for the game.

#26 Posted by jdh5153 (1034 posts) -

Skyrim was junk and they have no shame in just delivering broken games. Their 'everything + the kitchen sink' approach to in game mechanics just drags their games down. I don't care if some people cannot see it, Bethesda makes badly engineered games. I just don't see value in putting money in their pockets for making games THEY KNOW won't run. Sure, my few pennies hardly make a difference to their bottom-line, but I'd rather not pay thieves for junk.

Junk eh? Every major Bethesda game has either won just about every GOTY award or been in the final running for every major GOTY award.

#27 Edited by Clonedzero (4196 posts) -

@nixon34 said:

@clonedzero: I am talking about the 360 version, and the houses that they added in the Hearthfire DLC are a buggy mess. and have been since they were released.

I assumed you were talking about the 360 version. I play the 360 version, and i have all the DLC including Hearthfire. Aside from the mannequins its fairly bug-free. Though i heard the house down in Falkreath was more buggy, I didn't use that one.

I never used manequins cus even in the core game they had a habit of like moving...so i never built those.

#28 Posted by The_Ruiner (1138 posts) -

I don't think I'll ever buy a Bethesda game on a console again... although if there's like a 6 month wait for Fallout 4 on PC..I might buy the 360 version first and transfer my save again...

#29 Edited by Nixon34 (97 posts) -
#30 Posted by Nixon34 (97 posts) -

@clonedzero: Yea, my issue was that the only reason i wanted the Hearthfire DLC was for displaying weapons and Armor, I had never had a single problem in my first two playthroughs with the mannequins in the normal game's houses, just the DLC ones. Maybe my clean run with the main game just led to me being blindsided by these problems. I loved the main game, i just have issue with DLC that is so small and limited having a bug like this without it getting addressed. Maybe the PC is the answer. This was the first ever Bethesda game i had played so i didnt know any better.

#31 Posted by Scrawnto (2464 posts) -

Skyrim was junk and they have no shame in just delivering broken games. Their 'everything + the kitchen sink' approach to in game mechanics just drags their games down. I don't care if some people cannot see it, Bethesda makes badly engineered games. I just don't see value in putting money in their pockets for making games THEY KNOW won't run. Sure, my few pennies hardly make a difference to their bottom-line, but I'd rather not pay thieves for junk.

There are a lot of people who have put hundreds of hours into the game. I don't think you can say that the game "won't run". It clearly does run. Some people just aren't as bothered when things break, and some people are lucky enough not to experience the major bugs. I know in my case, if I play the game for sixty hours and then my save is totally and utterly corrupted, that would suck, but the way I see it, I still played a game that I liked enough to keep playing for sixty hours, and that time is worth $60 to me.

The game certainly wasn't broken enough to affect my own playthroughs negatively. I never once came across a broken quest or lost my precious gear or any of that, so I don't feel bad about buying the game. My experience might have been atypical, but that doesn't make it less valid.

#32 Posted by Scrawnto (2464 posts) -

@the_ruiner: Hold up. Fallout 4 hasn't even been officially announced yet, but you think it could come out on the 360? At this point I'm hoping it will be on the next generation of consoles, given the issues Skyrim had trying to squeeze in on current consoles, and especially the PS3.

#33 Posted by TheVeteran13 (1213 posts) -

My only quibble is that I can't return the Helm of Winterhold, so now it's stuck in my inventory and I have to look at the stupid thing and it irks me.

#34 Edited by TyCobb (1978 posts) -

This is why I will always stick to PC for Elder Scrolls and Fallout games. The mod tools and game framework work perfectly and are powerful enough for the community to fix almost all of the bugs. Long live the PC modding community!

#35 Posted by PeasantAbuse (5138 posts) -

@tormasturba said:

@nixon34 said:

I am writing this to see if i am not alone in my thinking. Last night i got fed up and closed the book on Skyrim (360) after i discovered that a bug exists in the DLC Hearth fire that causes you to be unable to remove Armor from the Created Mannequins. I recently started a 2nd play through because i wanted to see all the armor and weapons as well as play the other story lines. Bethesda recently announced that they are done working on Skyrim and with the mess that their game is on the ps3 and the obvious bugs they ignored in the 360 DLC, i am going to give serious thought as to whether or not i will buy their next game. I believe they have a responsibility to at least fix bugs that exist in their DLC yet no Bethesda Employee has ever said a single word about this bug. I am just being an Internet Baby, or am i right to be pissed at them?

Why not just cheat-spawn the armor next to you?

And sure all developers should release their games bug free but I feel like in order for such a huge world to be created and made beautiful there needs to be at least a few concessions in terms of quality control when it comes to smaller much less consequential bugs. I mean they eliminate a vast majority(at least 80%) of the bugs that were in the game before release, but in a game the size of Skyrim it would be impossible to account for all the different and completely random ways that many millions of people play their game and inadvertently trigger a bug. It just couldn't be done in one longer game development cycle of even 5 years let alone a more conservative time frame of 3.

I'm talking about the game being unplayable on ps3 and 360 after 50 hours.

This was never true for the 360 version and you're posts are embarrassing.

#36 Edited by EXTomar (4940 posts) -

I don't think Bethesda gets "a free pass" because it is well known that ES games have a long and extensive history of being buggy, unstable or both. If there is news worthy to report it is that Skyrim was actually released stable and the main line quest was bug free.

This is just something many have come to accept with ES games along with other games based on their "open world engines". I don't want to sound like the "old man with the yard" but complaining about bugs in an ES game is laughable.

#37 Edited by Humanity (10037 posts) -

@extomar said:

I don't think Bethesda gets "a free pass" because it is well known that ES games have a long and extensive history of being buggy, unstable or both. If there is news worthy to report it is that Skyrim was actually released stable and the main line quest was bug free.

This is just something many have come to accept with ES games along with other games based on their "open world engines". I don't want to sound like the "old man with the yard" but complaining about bugs in an ES game is laughable.

IT should never be laughable to expect quality. I think it is more laughable, and quite sad really, that gamers have come to expect that Bethesda games are going to have a ton of bugs in them but it's ok because it's Bethesda and thats the norm. As long as it doesn't completely hardlock my entire console/PC then I'm fine with it. That's a terrible attitude and all those GOTY awards their games receive despite all the issues they have only propagate the issue and reinforce their reasoning that they don't have to worry about Q&A too much because people will tolerate almost anything they throw at them and even praise them in the process.

@trafalgarlaw said:

@mr_skeleton said:

I don't understand why no website is reporting about this game breaking bug.

Bethesda gets a free pass since no game ever featured dragon in an open world rpg.

"Bu-bu-but skyrim is so complex and you can do so many stuff! You can't fault their game for running at bad framerates, gamebreaking bugs and glitches! It's the only game in its kind! Don't complain, go play Final Fantasy you weaboos!"

Blame the blind hype and brogamers that never played an actual good rpg before. If this was an Activision or ea developed game, people would burn the game to the ground.

This is absolutely right. If this was an EA joint people wouldn't be as lenient with all the small issues.

Saying Skyrim is amazing because it's the least broken of their games is like going to a store and saying these apples are great because theres barely any bugs in them. Shipping a game in what should literally be the bare minimum in terms of playability is nothing to be celebrated as a crowning achievement.

#38 Edited by Hunkulese (2870 posts) -

It's on you as the consumer to know better. It's not Bethesda's first game and it's pretty common knowledge that their games are buggy. If you can't deal with that don't buy their games. You can hate it if you want but they've made the decision that they have better things to do with their resources than try and eliminate every bug. They still do a decent job with their patches.

#39 Posted by Ostratego (39 posts) -

90% of bugs in Oblivion where fixed 100 times faster via the community. Even after Bethesda left Oblivion the community did an amazing job with their own patches. This is nothing new with Bethesda and their games.

The presence of community patches for PC games leaves the question of whether Bethesda could/would think of porting over community patches from PC to console. I think it's something outside the realm of the XBOX, considering the cost of patching, but maybe the Playstation consoles. Recognizing community patchers would be a legal nightmare, but it may be the thing that helps more people get into the gaming industry, similarly to Valve and others like them hiring modders.

#40 Posted by gogosox82 (429 posts) -

Its just better to buy their games on the pc since the modding community will support and fix any bugs that come up. Bethesda just doesn't fix their games once they point them out for the most part. I made a rash decision and bought Skyrim on the ps3. Probably the biggest mistake I've made since I usually play games like that on the pc but I was in the process of building a new pc. I have it on pc and its just a much better experience as it is with most Bethesda games.

#41 Edited by Jimbo (9979 posts) -

@humanity: Except it's nothing like that because bug-free apples are the standard and are readily available. There are no comparable alternatives to Bethesda open-world RPGs I can think of which aren't at least as broken. Even much simpler open world RPGs are typically more buggy than Skyrim.

Bethesda don't get a free pass, but they are judged by the (low) standards of the market and are given some leeway accordingly. Most appreciate that if you have a bunch of complex and interdependent game systems then there will be some bugs as a result - it's up to the individual if they consider that a price worth paying or not. When anybody else at all shows that they can do this better, Bethesda will stop being given the benefit of the doubt. The fact that these games sell incredibly well and yet there's still no sign of them being copycatted to death speaks volumes.

EA wouldn't have the confidence to make a game as complex, open and ambitious as this in the first place, so it's kinda irrelevant, but if they did, I'd feel pretty safe in predicting it would be a complete disaster.

#42 Edited by Wacomole (836 posts) -

Well all I know is that, on the PS3, the only thing that stopped my 500+ hours of a single character in Skyrim last year was my the machine dying. That and the fact that I didn't fancy playing the entire game again on the new system just to get the single trophy I was missing.

All in all, I'd say that even with the minor frustrations, I more than got my money's worth of entertainment from Bethesda.

#43 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@the_laughing_man said:

90% of bugs in Oblivion where fixed 100 times faster via the community. Even after Bethesda left Oblivion the community did an amazing job with their own patches. This is nothing new with Bethesda and their games.

The presence of community patches for PC games leaves the question of whether Bethesda could/would think of porting over community patches from PC to console. I think it's something outside the realm of the XBOX, considering the cost of patching, but maybe the Playstation consoles. Recognizing community patchers would be a legal nightmare, but it may be the thing that helps more people get into the gaming industry, similarly to Valve and others like them hiring modders.

Why bother when the community will do that for free?

#44 Posted by casper_ (910 posts) -

its very important to play bethesda games on PC and if at all possible like a year after they are released.

#45 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -

My only quibble is that I can't return the Helm of Winterhold, so now it's stuck in my inventory and I have to look at the stupid thing and it irks me.

Hey, at least its not a hag raven head.

#46 Edited by crusader8463 (14428 posts) -

I think they get too much of a pass on the problems with their games. I never find the rest of the game that great, so when you add in all the bugs/problems ontop it adds up to me not enjoying the games. Fallout 3 is the worst example as it was literally unplayable and it crashed every 20 min.

#47 Posted by Humanity (10037 posts) -

@jimbo: Go ahead and tell all the PS3 users that bought the game and paid the same $65 as everyone else that Bethesda doesn't get a free pass.

#48 Posted by gamefreak9 (2417 posts) -

It's a big game, so time demanding(and hence expensive) to dig for bugs in such a massive world. That's why the modding community is awesome, they released some patches, they fix annoying inventory stuff, improve graphics, improve enemy variety..

I perfectly understand then not wanting to put more funding into this, its already a very expensive game to make, I don't see that expensive endeavor paying off for them. Though I do feel bad for the console gamers, they just got the wrong end of the deal.

#49 Edited by EXTomar (4940 posts) -

@humanity: I didn't mean that it is laughable a buyer wants quality. I am saying it is laughable people are complaining *this* Bethesda game is buggy.

As I wrote earlier, it is completely reasonable for the poster to complain and take the stance he won't buy another game because of the quality of Skyrim but these problems aren't new where the track record is decades long and won't change unless radical changes are made internal to Bethesda.

#50 Posted by SSully (4315 posts) -

I wish everyone had some experience with programming or at least the basic design that does into creating something of the scale of Skyrim. Making video games isn't easy. Making open world video games are even more difficult. The fact that they are able to make a game like this as stable as it currently exists is a feat in itself. Yes, it sucks that there are some shitty bugs in the game still, but I think that we can let them go and thank bethesda for the work they have done.

With that said, there is no excuse for the shit treatment the PS3 has gotten. It is a mixture of sony's lake of foresight when designing the amount of memory in the system, but also Bethesda for not conforming to this limitations. I am sure they made compromises to make the game work on PS3, but I feel there is more that could have been done that would have made it maybe less appealing visually, but performance wise it would be much better.