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#1 Edited by Phuturist (43 posts) -

iOS game lets you beat your boyfriend until he is perfect

http://www.destructoid.com/ios-game-lets-you-beat-your-boyfriend-until-he-s-perfect-243517.phtml

I would really love to see an article by Patrick about this, I don't even mean that in a smug way. It would help convey the impression of balanced journalism on this website and probably make the comment section for future feminist focused articles less shitstormy.

So anyway, discuss.

I personally would not be offended by this game if it would have passed Apple certification with the roles reversed, but I can hardly imagine that, and being on the losing end of different standards is just not very fun. Also the comment section there sums up a bunch of my feelings about this.

#2 Posted by SlashDance (1815 posts) -

It's different when it's a woman. Duh.

#3 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Now just imagine if the roles were reversed, just imagine.

#4 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Sorry it's only sexist if it's a woman. - gaming industry logic

#5 Posted by StarvingGamer (8250 posts) -

Ugh, this conjures up all sorts of bad things in my brain. I'd better leave this thread before I get too worked up.

I hope the person who made that app dies in a fire.

#6 Posted by ShadowConqueror (3052 posts) -

Well, that's sexist.

#7 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

what if you gay. can you beat your boyfriend then. and if you can is that sexist.

who's feeling would that hurt. cos we all know how precious feeling are

#8 Posted by L44 (561 posts) -

Uh oh.

#9 Posted by coakroach (2490 posts) -

Oh no.

#10 Posted by Fattony12000 (7418 posts) -
#11 Edited by Coombs (3449 posts) -

@Fattony12000:

Wow sounds like a great game

Our "hero" is charged with the task of reuniting the titular tribes who constantly war over which breast size is superior -- however, this being such a socially progressive game, the protagonist aims to spread the word that breast size doesn't matter, promoting peace and tolerance instead of enmity.
Because this a socially progressive game.
The objective is to force sex on as many women as possible until they like it. The main message of the game seems to be that women secretly enjoy any and all sex from any and all men, so you might as well just make them do it and wait patiently for their gratitude when you're finished. So like I said, it's socially progressive and has an important moral message at its narrative core. Chapters involve beating women in combat until they're too weak to fight back, then having your way with them. If that sounds monstrous, just remember -- the women want it. No matter how much they beg our heroic hero to stop,

and my personal favourite

Translated by scribes who clearly used a thesaurus without the requisite understanding of chosen words (Unless they really thought the use of "stinky" in a blowjob scene was erotic),

all I can think while reading this review was

#12 Posted by Phuturist (43 posts) -

I know. But that is an erotic game. You can find way worse if you want to. Rape that she enjoys? Pfff haha. Kid stuff. There are games where the goal is to torture an underage girl. The same stuff exists with male "protagonists", but there are way fewer instances of that.

My point here is, an erotic fetish game does not equal a fun game on a moderated mainstream marketplace. It's really hard to compare.

#13 Posted by Pezen (1604 posts) -

This is a prime example of the view that exists in a lot of the world in regards to domestic violence. Men doesn't get abused, they're just "whipped" and that's funny and should be ridiculed.

#14 Posted by Dogma (961 posts) -

To be clear. I have not gone bananas over Patricks articles and have a understanding why those articles exist on the site. But yeah... this game is just in poor taste. And as someone already said. Think if it were a woman instead. That would have unleashed an insane torrent of hate. This should too since it's just stupid.

#15 Posted by VilhelmNielsen (1735 posts) -

Calm down, boys. What Patrick has written about in the past is a big publisher's distasteful behavior in regards to marketing. This is a god damn iOs developer, probably a handful of people in a tiny office, or maybe even in a living room. It really isn't comparable.

I'm going to flash my prejudice, and say that the pissy internet people, who are always protecting men's rights, are young, white suburban males; pretty much the only demographic who doesn't have any discrimination in their history. So get off your high horse, and take it like a fucking man, and not like a 12-year old who can't play anymore vidja games, because it's past his bedtime.

#16 Posted by IBurningStar (2173 posts) -

Domestic violence is cool now? Well, I learn something new everyday.

#17 Posted by Ramone (2967 posts) -

Unfortunately it's not popular or cool to be against sexism towards men at the minute so I don't think we'll be seeing any articles by Patrick on this.

#18 Posted by Gamer_152 (14078 posts) -

The whole "The games industry says it's only sexist if it's a woman" idea that's being expressed in here is a total strawman, when has anything like that been implied? The difference is, while this app is pretty gross and arguably worthy of at least some attention, it doesn't have anything to do with the upper echelons of the games industry, while much of the questionable content involving women in games does, and it's not representative of an overall much larger issue, while a lot of stuff involving women in the industry has been. I don't think an app like this really merits a Patrick article, as it's not really part of a big issue or trend in the industry, it's just this weird, anomalous, all be it distasteful thing.

Moderator
#19 Posted by hinderk (685 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

The whole "The games industry says it's only sexist if it's a woman" idea that's being expressed in here is a total strawman, when has anything like that been implied? The difference is, while this app is pretty gross and arguably worthy of at least some attention, it doesn't have anything to do with the upper echelons of the games industry, while much of the questionable content involving women in games does, and it's not representative of an overall much larger issue, while a lot of stuff involving women in the industry has been. I don't think an app like this really merits a Patrick article, as it's not really part of a big issue or trend in the industry, it's just this weird, anomalous, all be it distasteful thing.

This

I could see an article on how this was able to get one the app store, but that is about it.

#20 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1708 posts) -

@VilhelmNielsen: This may sound ridiculous, but a step towards true equality for women is making something like this just as unacceptable as if the roles were reversed. Just because this isn't misogynistic doesn't mean it isn't reinforcing the idea that women are to be treated differently. By shrugging this off or calling anyone that is offended by it a "12 year old men's rights advocate" you are reinforcing the notion that different rules apply to men and women, which is a step backwards for women's rights. Maybe I'm thinking too deep about the issue, but I just feel like the only way to get rid of all sexism is to not tolerate any of it.

#21 Posted by algertman (852 posts) -

See, we have games that beat up both women and men. Now THAT is equality.

#22 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

What in the what...? O_O

#23 Posted by konig_kei (618 posts) -

At first i was like "whawwwwwwwt destructoid comments not batshit fucken crazy like giant bombs are now?" then i kept reading and was like "ok, world is same, phew!"

#24 Posted by cmblasko (1236 posts) -

@Phuturist said:

I would really love to see an article by Patrick about this, I don't even mean that in a smug way. It would help convey the impression of balanced journalism on this website and probably make the comment section for future feminist focused articles less shitstormy.

There's not enough time in the world to write an article about every dumb mobile game that gets released.

#25 Posted by Phuturist (43 posts) -

@VilhelmNielsen: @Gamer_152: @cmblasko:

I have to disagree with the notion that this is just iOS and therefore not attention worthy. I mean a few days ago the staff bought capture kits just for iOS games, that kinda gives me the impression that they are taking this serious now.

And yes, this is more about "how does this pass Apple certification", we had articles about games that do not pass Apple cert before due to dubious political reasons, so we might as well have one about games that for some weird reason made it.

I am sure you find the following argument tiring as hell, but I could easily see an article about this with the roles reversed. Sorry, but I have yet to see a valid counter argument against the same old "what if roles reversed". Just because one was decided by a handful of marketing guys, and the other thing by a handful of developers and Apple employes....I don't know man. iOS is not exactly small, and this game looks quite professionally made to me.

#26 Edited by Xymox (2088 posts) -

@ll_Exile_ll said:

@VilhelmNielsen: This may sound ridiculous, but a step towards true equality for women is making something like this just as unacceptable as if the roles were reversed. Just because this isn't misogynistic doesn't mean it isn't reinforcing the idea that women are to be treated differently. By shrugging this off or calling anyone that is offended by it a "12 year old men's rights advocate" you are reinforcing the notion that different rules apply to men and women, which is a step backwards for women's rights. Maybe I'm thinking too deep about the issue, but I just feel like the only way to get rid of all sexism is to not tolerate any of it.

I don't think it sounds ridiculous at all, I think you're making a fair point.

I think continuously stressing that "it's way different" furthers the problem.

Domestic violence towards men is okay by virtue of males having penises...? I mean, really now.

Not buying it either to be honest...

And the whole "men are brick walls" attitude or that every single vessel that has a penis is somehow part of an audience which isn't allowed to complain because it's not a "big enough" issue is equally silly, especially when they claim things like men being raped is insignificant compared to women being raped. Ask google for how many humans are on earth right now. Then find out how much 1 person is in percent. Then apply the same logic to the murder of another human being. With the same logic of "not a big enough issue if there's not a lot of people who are affected by it", well, a murder is simply way too insignificant to even matter, statistically speaking, even to the point that having laws against it is almost laughable. What these humans continuously fail to realize is that there are people behind statistics. If those people have wangs or not, is what's insignificant. We should work towards everyone having a decent fucking life, wang or not, and not shrug our shoulders and say "eh, not a big enough issue".

I also think the "They're not a part of the exclusive club of oppressed minorities which have the right to be offended and angry" mentality also furthers segmentation, separation and the separatist ideals.

@Dogma said:

Think if it were a woman instead.

Had this game been about strangling your girlfriend while she was driving it would have caused a massive shitstorm and the argument is "well, the gaming industry at large is more oppressive towards women" I'm sorry, but I don't see how that justifies it. If you're gonna turn to rage in one situation and not the other, you're just as sexist as that which you claim to be fighting.

I don't, however, think that censorship of fiction is a valid path to walk to fight oppression or injustice.

#27 Posted by Brodehouse (9951 posts) -
@VilhelmNielsen Gender shaming. Niiice.

Let me ask you this. Are men human? Are women human? Would not two human beings deserve the same treatment under the law?

With all that said, I'm not really going to get bent out about this. Not 'because I'm going to man up BRO!" but because it takes more than this to victimize me. If they want to advocate violence against men, I advocate those men who suffer call the police. And I would advocate judges take male victims and female perpetrators seriously. What happens in fiction..? Small potatoes.
#28 Posted by Fattony12000 (7418 posts) -

@Phuturist: I just felt like posting another thing from the pen of hard-hitting garme jurnazliste, Jim Sterling.

#29 Posted by Gamer_152 (14078 posts) -

@Phuturist said:

@Gamer_152:

I have to disagree with the notion that this is just iOS and therefore not attention worthy. I mean a few days ago the staff bought capture kits just for iOS games, that kinda gives me the impression that they are taking this serious now.

And yes, this is more about "how does this pass Apple certification", we had articles about games that do not pass Apple cert before due to dubious political reasons, so we might as well have one about games that for some weird reason made it.

I am sure you find the following argument tiring as hell, but I could easily see an article about this with the roles reversed. Sorry, but I have yet to see a valid counter argument against the same old "what if roles reversed". Just because one was decided by a handful of marketing guys, and the other thing by a handful of developers and Apple employes....I don't know man. iOS is not exactly small, and this game looks quite professionally made to me.

I didn't say that this wasn't worthy of attention because it was an iOS games, but a few things have to be remembered here; 1. When we're talking about video games and video game culture, we're generally not referring to the mobile game market. 2. The people who get discussed by the press and community most and the people pouring the most resources into games aren't working in mobile games, that's just the nature of the industry, 3. Most importantly, there have been little to no underlying issues with the depiction and treatment of women in the social game space, the same cannot be said for the more traditional game space.

Now if this product was made by someone like Rovio or Zynga, then this would deserve to be a much bigger story, but this is made by Generic Social Game Company #801, meanwhile in AAA games a lot of the questionable content we see is coming from the big names in the industry. The "What if the roles were reversed?" argument ignores the fact that the gender issues that are raised within the "core" industry and community are never purely about isolated incidents, but that the incidents that cause controversy come on the back of much larger trends in the way the industry and community treats women, and happen within the context of societies and cultures where the questionable treatment of women carries within it a lot of baggage and is to some degree ingrained in our societies and cultures as a whole to this day. The only way we could truly see the roles reversed here is if we were living in some alternate history timeline where things had gone very different for men, "core" games were almost solely aimed at women, men were frequently objectified and played second fiddle in games, and men encountered significant trouble in both the industry and community because of their gender.

I think there could be an interesting and relevant article in the questionable iOS games that do pass certification, but when an article has already been written about certification I think it makes this slightly less necessary, I think "We might as well" is a poor justification, and we have to understand that this product is an isolated incident, and therefore very different from the products that arguably discriminate against women that we see throughout the "core" industry.

Moderator
#30 Posted by Jams (2961 posts) -

@VilhelmNielsen said:

I'm going to flash my prejudice, and say that the pissy internet people, who are always protecting men's rights, are young, white suburban males; pretty much the only demographic who doesn't have any discrimination in their history. So get off your high horse, and take it like a fucking man, and not like a 12-year old who can't play anymore vidja games, because it's past his bedtime.

Congratulations, you have managed to be sexist, racist, discriminate based on class, age and be a hypocrite all in one post. Pat yourself on the fucking back you tool.

#31 Posted by bunnymud (717 posts) -

Big problems start small. This should get as much attention as any of the other articles where women feel as if they are being treated poorly. But my opinion in either matter is WGAS WGAF

#32 Posted by Little_Socrates (5677 posts) -

This is a game in poor taste.

Allow me to show you a very incomplete timeline (it currently only carries through July) of all the headlines referencing misogyny or ideas that are "in poor taste" from the last year.

The reason there's a world of difference in response between this bad, poorly-thought-out game and #torsogate is because we're at the culmination of a disgusting tidal wave. At least, I hope to God the Hitman Facebook game and #torsogate are the culmination. I'm not sure PR/industry people can get much more offensive.

#33 Posted by Mirado (993 posts) -

What's the story here? That someone made a game that lets you beat up a dude? I've seen games where you can rape women and men, kill babies, commit genocide, torture people, and sometimes a combination of the above. People make objectionable bullshit all the time, but so what?

Now, the only story I see is how this got through Apple's approval process, which is weird....but beyond saying "Dunno, but it shouldn't of." or "Dunno, but I don't see the problem" I really don't know what we have to discuss.

#34 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@Little_Socrates said:

Allow me to show you a very incomplete timeline (it currently only carries through July) of all the headlines referencing misogyny or ideas that are "in poor taste" from the last year.

That was a really interesting thing to click through. Thanks for linking!

#35 Posted by Phuturist (43 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

I didn't say that this wasn't worthy of attention because it was an iOS games, but a few things have to be remembered here; 1. When we're talking about video games and video game culture, we're generally not referring to the mobile game market. 2. The people who get discussed by the press and community most and the people pouring the most resources into games aren't working in mobile games, that's just the nature of the industry, 3. Most importantly, there have been little to no underlying issues with the depiction and treatment of women in the social game space, the same cannot be said for the more traditional game space.

Now if this product was made by someone like Rovio or Zynga, then this would deserve to be a much bigger story, but this is made by Generic Social Game Company #801, meanwhile in AAA games a lot of the questionable content we see is coming from the big names in the industry. The "What if the roles were reversed?" argument ignores the fact that the gender issues that are raised within the "core" industry and community are never purely about isolated incidents, but that the incidents that cause controversy come on the back of much larger trends in the way the industry and community treats women, and happen within the context of societies and cultures where the questionable treatment of women carries within it a lot of baggage and is to some degree ingrained in our societies and cultures as a whole to this day. The only way we could truly see the roles reversed here is if we were living in some alternate history timeline where things had gone very different for men, "core" games were almost solely aimed at women, men were frequently objectified and played second fiddle in games, and men encountered significant trouble in both the industry and community because of their gender.

I think there could be an interesting and relevant article in the questionable iOS games that do pass certification, but when an article has already been written about certification I think it makes this slightly less necessary, I think "We might as well" is a poor justification, and we have to understand that this product is an isolated incident, and therefore very different from the products that arguably discriminate against women that we see throughout the "core" industry.

To your first 3 points there:

1. When we are talking about how many female gamers exist, as an argument for more female targeted games, we certainly are talking about the social and mobile space, else numbers like "almost half of the gamers" would never come together.

2. True. But I think there is a qualitative difference between "here is a dead corpse of a woman" and "beat and torture your boyfriend for points!" that makes up for the importance difference of the markets.

3. Arguable. I see no issues in the traditional game space. Most of the games are in the same kategory that action movies would be in for gameplay mechanic reasons. Most of the action movies are catered towards men. Hence both video games and action movies frequently have the same character types. Actually I believe if you think about it that way, the video game industry is way more progressive than the film industry. Name the action movies starring a woman in a lead role, and a man as the love interest and support. I can name a bunch, but certainly more games that fit this criteria.

And to the rest, as I am sure you can guess already, I disagree a bit. And frankly, I don't care about how the situation was before my time. I grew up in a society were women and men are supposed to be equal, but more often than the other way around, it seems like society treats women better.

My best friends father pretty much died because of this but that's a bit too much for this topic I suppose.

#36 Posted by Pezen (1604 posts) -
@Mirado : I think there's an world of difference between a "rape-murder-genocide" game you found on a random torrent site and a game that with quirky cute "mobile" graphics portray domestic violence as a positive (based on what's written on it) on the iOS platform. It's about exposure context to me. Now, if this game ends with a clever criticism and commentary on domestic violence, that would be pretty fantastic. But I doubt it.
#38 Posted by Brodehouse (9951 posts) -
@Pezen
@Mirado : I think there's an world of difference between a "rape-murder-genocide" game you found on a random torrent site and a game that with quirky cute "mobile" graphics portray domestic violence as a positive (based on what's written on it) on the iOS platform. It's about exposure context to me. Now, if this game ends with a clever criticism and commentary on domestic violence, that would be pretty fantastic. But I doubt it.
Yeah, if the game ends with a police officer taking you to jail because the boyfriend finally decided he'd had enough, I'd actually rally for this game.

It would be the School Days ending, but with intimate partner violence instead.
#39 Edited by Animasta (14692 posts) -

@Phuturist said:

And to the rest, as I am sure you can guess already, I disagree a bit. And frankly, I don't care about how the situation was before my time. I grew up in a society were women and men are supposed to be equal, but more often than the other way around, it seems like society treats women better.

where do you live, Iceland? Women are still paid less on average for the same job pretty much everywhere.

I don't like the app either (admittedly I would like it less if it were the other way around but it's still absolutely terrible), but come on. You can find plenty of terrible flash games around that are similar to this, and I'm pretty sure Japan has some yaoi rape dating sims around.

edit; it should be taken down of course, this sets a bad precedent for EVERYONE involved.

#40 Posted by Mirado (993 posts) -

@Pezen: I would argue that flash games on Newgrounds or elsewhere around the web have (or would have, if not for the exposure this game has received in the media) far more reach than a small-time mobile would usually have, and that this game is less about the developer saying "yay domestic violence" but rather "yay controversy that'll drive up my ad revenue!", but since I have no idea about how many downloads the game has or how sincere it really seems about its message, I can't say for certain. From the little of the game that I've seen, it puts the same weight behind its message as any other flash game and will win over as many people as those do (which is to say, next to zero).

I'd just rather avoid another 2000+ post thread where the vast majority of it is either idle speculation or hyper-aggressive shit slinging.

#42 Edited by Phuturist (43 posts) -

@Animasta said:

where do you live, Iceland? Women are still paid less on average for the same job pretty much everywhere.

I don't like the app either (admittedly I would like it less if it were the other way around but it's still absolutely terrible), but come on. You can find plenty of terrible flash games around that are similar to this, and I'm pretty sure Japan has some yaoi rape dating sims around.

Well...I study physics, 80% of the students here are male. 80% of the language studies classes are female. People with better qualifications often get paid better, even in the same jobs. Also women are way less demanding in payment raise discussions. Which is probably something we should work on as a society. Demanding men are perceived positively as strong, demanding females negatively as nagging. Not cool.

But man can I name a huge amount of opposite examples, that are just constitutional, state side discrimination. We can have this discussion elsewhere if you want to though, it would stray a bit from the topic.

My point is, this would not have been allowed the other way around on iOS. Sure there are millions of horrible offensive flash games everywhere that I don't care about, because people do offensive stuff all the time. You don't see me making topics about these though. Going through Apple cert gives it a "this is perceived as politically correct in the western society" stamp that I really dislike.

#43 Posted by Animasta (14692 posts) -

@Phuturist: which is why I agree this should be taken down but to pretend that women somehow have it better when they let shit like this through isn't really the point and is also wrong...]

My point is let's just stick to how this is absolutely terrible

#44 Posted by JeanLuc (3585 posts) -

Game seems gross. The whole idea of a "perfect" boyfriend/girlfriend is so ridiculous.

#45 Posted by Brodehouse (9951 posts) -
@Animasta 'Women are paid less for the same job pretty much everywhere'.

This has been _thoroughly_ debunked. Women are not paid less for the same job, women work different jobs that pay less, and work them in different manners then men. There's also the fact that that famous data point relied on using the median, rather than the mean; I believe the latest study showed the mean to be that women make 47k and men 50k... or 94%. The idea that if you get a sex change and use the male diminutive of your name you will suddenly receive a 20% bonus on your cheque is a complete fallacy. Consider if it were true, and you ran a business... why would you hire men if you could get the exact same work for 80 cents on the dollar? Why would you EVER hire men? I could link you to sources if you require. This talking point has been thoroughly busted. In fact, among single, childless, college educated women... They're actually earning 9% more than their single, childless, educated spear counterparts.
#46 Posted by Animasta (14692 posts) -

@Brodehouse: you're the worst D:

my point wasn't that really, my point was that he's pretending that women and men are completely equal [wrong] and that women sometimes have it better [right in like, two small places] and that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

#47 Edited by Phuturist (43 posts) -

@Animasta: Fine with me. Let's say the situation is different, and not necessarily better for either side. Let's say both genders have their ups and downs, shall we?

But I seem to only see articles drawing attention to problems that women have on this site, hence this topic, to balance it out and raise awareness for male centric problems. Hopefully, though I don't hold my breath, even reach Mr. Klepeck with this.

@Animasta said:

@Brodehouse: he's pretending that women and men are completely equal [wrong] and that women sometimes have it better [right in like, two small places]

=(

You seemed fair so far.

#48 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3101 posts) -

@Gamer_152 said:

when has anything like that been implied?

To quote someone you may have heard from one or two times, "You can make the argument that no one would be outraged if this was a male torso with the same lack of bodily features, but c'mon. It’s different when it’s a woman, this is over the line"

#49 Posted by Brodehouse (9951 posts) -
@Animasta

@Brodehouse: you're the worst D:

my point wasn't that really, my point was that he's pretending that women and men are completely equal [wrong] and that women sometimes have it better [right in like, two small places] and that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Women and men are legally equal, at least in theory. Biologically, of course we're one of the most sexually dimorphous species on the planet. There's actually a ton of interesting shit about our biology, the way our hemoglobin works compared to animals, how our shoulder is the main reason we became the earth's dominant species. Socially, we are equal in terms of our worth as humans, though the way we are treated varies wildly. As I've said before, women are treated as children, and men are treated as fodder. And I don't approve of either.

But I don't need this game BANNNNNNNED because I'm against any censorship whatsoever. I'll disagree with it, but I won't censor it. And actually, hopefully this game might get some people to notice male victims of domestic abuse who actually need some help and shouldn't be expected to 'man up' and take it forever.
#50 Posted by Vinny_Says (5709 posts) -

Are there microtransactions?