Do you think that games have become too violent?

@mracoon said:

@Phatmac said:

Nah, most games these days have horrible acts of violence. I just used it as an example. Stuff in Spec Ops, TWD, The Darkness 2, Far Cry 3, AC3, and more made me feel sick with myself.

That is clearly not true, just look at Wikipedia's list of 2012 games if you want proof. If you're going to make a bold claim like "most games [i.e. over 50%] these days have horrible acts of violence" then at least back it up with some evidence. I'll maybe agree that the majority of 'Triple A' games feature violence but to say that about all games is a huge stretch.

You're right, most triple AAA games are more violent than just games in general.

It isn't the fact that there is violence, its the reckless attitude towards it. Its violence without consequence, done for the sake of pleasuring the player, borderline pornographic in some cases. If developers took the time to make you feel culpable for having just killed someone we'd be onto something. As they are now, the majority of M-rated titles are anything but "mature". They are simple-minded murder sims, made because its tradition rather than due to being an imperative part of a story someone wants to tell (an exception being Hotline Miami, which embraces how reprehensible it is). Films have violence, some are reckless and ridiculous (Kill Bill Vol. 1) some are more grounded in reality (Goodfellas) but they have discernible rationales behind why they are that way. Many games seem to lack this thought-process and the results are troubling to me. Far Cry 3 and Hitman Absolution spring to mind as recent examples. Why are they violent? What do they actually have to say about anything? If someone can tell me, I'll retract the assertion.

I don't think the violence is the problem, but the way it's presented is. Blood and gore is almost sexualized in modern media. There's a difference between using violence to disturb an audience, and using it to excite. The latter is pretty shitty, and is the primary reason why I stopped playing Fallout 3. The dismemberment in that game is past the point of satire. It's actually kind of fucked up.

Compare the slow motion zooms and shit that glorify the violence in Fallout to the way similar levels of gore are portrayed in something like Dead Space. You're not meant to revel in the blood in a survival horror game. You're supposed to be grossed out.

Goddamnit. Don't give the fuckwits in the mainstream media ANY oxygen to attack gaming! I remember the witch hunts post-Columbine against Doom and other games. These parasites are not looking for meaning or facts, they're just lazy sensationalist bastards. Fuck them. From the bottom of my heart.

I don't understand if the object of the games premise is to commit violent acts why shouldn't they be as truly violent as possible. I think peoples objections in that case are about games making the whole experience too real. However that's the object of the premise of these games, to be violent and to be photo realistic. As for it being a problem I don't see how, you can just select against games that are violent there are plenty of non violent ones and actually the "turn off gore" setting is in many games and has been around a long time.

@Seppli said:

Just today I watched some interview on the new Army of Two game - the Devil's Cartel - which looks as bland as games get, and I thought to myself, 'if only this game would embrace over-the-top graphic violence like Machete or Desperado, then I'd actually might be on board.'

Oh wow, I never really thought about that. That would be pretty great.

games are allowed to be violent. just like movies.

people saying "oh you shouldnt like this" should just fuck off and get off their high horse.

what people should stop doing is associating games with kids. the medium has evolved long past those days. if people dont whine about over the top gorey movies, they shouldnt whine about video games. hell most horror movies these days are gorier than most video games. i see absolutely nothing wrong with games these days. the violence is fine, sometimes i enjoy stupid over the top violent games. sometimes i like stupid gory zombie movies. stop saying i shouldn't.

hell video games should also stop tip-toeing around sex as much and actually look at it maturely as well. plus theres nothing wrong with gratuitous sex. its fun, so why not? its part of life stop treating it like its taboo.

keep your gross over-protective censoring fingers off my video games please.

yeah, let's censor and sanitize everything that offends us out of our entertainment.

that will make everything better

When did I ever say that we should censor games? I want them to tone down how horrific its violence can be. Stop twisting my words.

@Phatmac said:

When did I ever say that we should censor games? I want them to tone down how horrific its violence can be. Stop twisting my words.

yeah well some games are going to be hyper violent to be entertaining for people who are into that. You can always just buy something else honestly if it's an issue. Other than that what else can you do?

@Phatmac said:

When did I ever say that we should censor games? I want them to tone down how horrific its violence can be. Stop twisting my words.

why? because YOU want them to be less violent? its not an issue for most other people.

people like different things, just because you dont like something doesn't make it a serious issue, because its not.

while i adamantly defend creators' right and license to have horribly violent games- i do think it's more of a crutch than a benefit to modern game design. violence is just about the bluntest way one can garner attention for their title. it just screams, "oooh look how edgy, raw, and real i am!" frankly i find it a bit obnoxious, as it often doesn't get the gravity it deserves, thereby defeating it's inclusion in the first place.

i'll also never be comfortable playing games which seek to mirror extant conflicts. not only is it a cheap ploy to seem relevant, but how can you even hope to do justice to a conflict that's still in progress? do they realize what a skewed perspective that represents?

also-

@Kraznor said:

It isn't the fact that there is violence, its the reckless attitude towards it. Its violence without consequence, done for the sake of pleasuring the player, borderline pornographic in some cases. If developers took the time to make you feel culpable for having just killed someone we'd be onto something. As they are now, the majority of M-rated titles are anything but "mature". They are simple-minded murder sims, made because its tradition rather than due to being an imperative part of a story someone wants to tell (an exception being Hotline Miami, which embraces how reprehensible it is). Films have violence, some are reckless and ridiculous (Kill Bill Vol. 1) some are more grounded in reality (Goodfellas) but they have discernible rationales behind why they are that way. Many games seem to lack this thought-process and the results are troubling to me. Far Cry 3 and Hitman Absolution spring to mind as recent examples. Why are they violent? What do they actually have to say about anything? If someone can tell me, I'll retract the assertion.

Excellent points. I agree 100%.

@thornie said:

@Kraznor said:

It isn't the fact that there is violence, its the reckless attitude towards it. Its violence without consequence, done for the sake of pleasuring the player, borderline pornographic in some cases. If developers took the time to make you feel culpable for having just killed someone we'd be onto something. As they are now, the majority of M-rated titles are anything but "mature". They are simple-minded murder sims, made because its tradition rather than due to being an imperative part of a story someone wants to tell (an exception being Hotline Miami, which embraces how reprehensible it is). Films have violence, some are reckless and ridiculous (Kill Bill Vol. 1) some are more grounded in reality (Goodfellas) but they have discernible rationales behind why they are that way. Many games seem to lack this thought-process and the results are troubling to me. Far Cry 3 and Hitman Absolution spring to mind as recent examples. Why are they violent? What do they actually have to say about anything? If someone can tell me, I'll retract the assertion.

Excellent points. I agree 100%.

Thank you for this, it's what I've been trying to say for a while now. It's not about just simple minded violence, it's how it is handled.

@VisariLoyalist said:

@Phatmac said:

When did I ever say that we should censor games? I want them to tone down how horrific its violence can be. Stop twisting my words.

yeah well some games are going to be hyper violent to be entertaining for people who are into that. You can always just buy something else honestly if it's an issue. Other than that what else can you do?

The problem is that millions are into that so that means that games will have to conform to being hyper violent eventually. Unless violence is toned down or treated better I don't see this trend changing anytime soon. I'm just sickened by the amounts of torture porn and hyper violence that is in a lot of AAA games.

I don't think the violence its self is an issue rather than how some games use it. In COD everything is glorified. You're this bad-ass super soldier tearing through hordes of nameless enemies. There is no real narrative to it, and it often times doesn't even touch on many of the 'standard' war-media tropes. (the horrors of war, or even trying to humanize both sides of the conflict).

I still would hesitate to say that this is a big issue though. I do think some games need to grow up, but I also think that developers shouldn't be barred from making something crazy and over the top, or something just for fun.

I don't believe violent video games are a good scapegoat for when something goes horribly wrong. People are able to differentiate what goes on in a game from how things work in the real world. Obviously, as we've seen, there are a handful of people out there that don't understand this difference. This is because of some underlying mental health issue, and that is the problem that should be addressed.

No, I don't and honestly I find that the violence in games can be a healthy outlet for frustration.

@Phatmac said:

@Napalm said:

@Phatmac said:

Nah, most games these days have horrible acts of violence. I just used it as an example. Stuff in Spec Ops, TWD, The Darkness 2, Far Cry 3, AC3, and more made me feel sick with myself.

Out of all of those you mentioned, I've played all of them minus Assassin's Creed III and beside The Walking Dead, I can't remember a goddamn offensive example of horrible violence in any of those, (Far Cry 3 excluded because we were just talking about it).

Oh, also the gross face exploding death animation in Max Payne 3 was just sickening.

But thats just the point isn't it? It elicited response from you. Max Payne 3 was hella violent but thats why I liked it because when people died you really felt it. I remember being horrified with Fabiana was shot in the head. But it just gives you all the more reason to care about Max's situation. Had the deaths NOT been so gruesome they wouldn't have had nearly the impact as they did.

Games aren't violent enough. I want games to have fluid physics on blood. The only games I have seen where blood runs is Duke Nukem 3D, Serious Sam, and Postal 2. I wish decapitations and dismemberment would have less clean cuts. Also, in every game where you stab people the knife or sword model just clips through the character model and there is a particle effect and it always looks jarring.

I think on the back of games it tells you what kind of things are in them

Bad Language

Game contains bad language

Discrimination

Game contains depictions of, or material which may encourage, discrimination

Drugs

Game refers to or depicts the use of drugs

Fear

Game may be frightening or scary for young children

Gambling

Games that encourage or teach gambling

Sex

Game depicts nudity and/or sexual behaviour or sexual references

Violence

Game contains depictions of violence

Online gameplay

Game can be played online

If you do not like any of these things mentioned on the back then dont buy them.

@Phatmac said:

@VisariLoyalist said:

@Phatmac said:

When did I ever say that we should censor games? I want them to tone down how horrific its violence can be. Stop twisting my words.

yeah well some games are going to be hyper violent to be entertaining for people who are into that. You can always just buy something else honestly if it's an issue. Other than that what else can you do?

The problem is that millions are into that so that means that games will have to conform to being hyper violent eventually. Unless violence is toned down or treated better I don't see this trend changing anytime soon. I'm just sickened by the amounts of torture porn and hyper violence that is in a lot of AAA games.

that's fair enough actually, and I don't see anything particularly wrong with people letting it be known they dislike all the violence. Certainly if there were enough people who held that view then games would go in a different direction. I'm just not sure if you are anything like most people who consume games, that is they don't have any problem with it at all. Maybe you should look at it a different way though, you seem to be supposing a zero sum situation where more violent video games equals less non violent games or more violence in games you'd rather there not be. But I think the two types of game can certainly coexist. I think there's certainly a place however for people to vocalize their demand for good games that aren't violent, perhaps if enough people make this clear (and there seems to be a non insignificant number of such people) then the industry will respond.

I just think people should view it as a broadening of the type of games rather than this idea that you should be opposed to a type of game, you're just not being served a product you would most like as of yet and more power to you if you can get their attention.

via The AtlanticWire

We have a problem of gun violence in the US, not a problem of video game violence.

No. I grew up watching movies when I was a kid that showed far worse stuff then what's in games and it was fine then.

I find that as I get older, my tolerance for violence has significantly decreased. It really came into focus this E3 for me, seeing all those Lara Croft videos where she was just mercilessly abused was really dispiriting. It wouldn't have bothered me at all when I was seventeen, but I'm a grown ass man now, with nieces and nephews and adult responsibilities, and that stuff bothers me in a really profound way now. I truly believe that videogames can be a great art form, and I mercilessly defend them as art whenever someone I meet question it, but those videos just made me go "Really? This is the medium I'm defending?"

My problem isn't that there is violence in videogames. In fact, in a game like Spec Ops, I think it's entirely appropriate and handled well. The violence has weight and meaning, it takes the random acts of cruelty you see in games like CoD and holds up a mirror and says "This is what you're doing, and it's not okay". But where it gets me is that it seems that violence has become the default for games. The simple gameplay cycle of killing enough guys so you survive, and if you don't, try again, is incredibly limiting. But that is what almost all big budget games are now. There are exceptions, of course, but think of the games that will (probably) be discussed in the GOTY discussions: XCOM, Far Cry 3 and The Walking Dead. All three of those are centered around killing things or avoiding being killed yourself. Why does it have to be that way?

The obvious exception here is Journey, which is not like that at all. More and more I'm drawn to those kinds of games that try something new, that tries to step out of the violent conventions that have been established. As an art form, we need more games like Journey and Flower and less games focused on stabbing dudes in the face.

There seems to be less gibbing in games nowadays, so no.

(P.S., I miss gibbing in games)

I think the problem is with the lack of realism and consequences with violence in video game. I personally think there need to be more violence but more Miami Hotline than Black Ops 2, players should not be forced to commit violent acts, but if they do they should be some sort of moral consequence for it. If I want to go around and chop people's head off in a video game, it should be realistic enough that I actually don't want to do it because of how fucked up it is (although there is room here and there for a Skyrim type of game), and the game should recognize and react to the player being a homicidal maniac.

Violence is a big part of mature content in any media (not the only thing, but a huge part), I like violence in my video games, movies, TV shows and comics; but I want the violence to make sense and be contextualized and not just violence for violence sake.

@Phatmac said:

Violence in video games has become a rising issue. Many game journalists have begun to call out video games and their excessive acts of violence towards other human beings. Before people come here and say that it's just a video game, please shut up. That isn't even a witty comeback at this point. Anyway, here are some examples from game journalists

https://twitter.com/ctplante/status/280803299517661185

https://twitter.com/JustinMcElroy/status/280794975640358912

https://twitter.com/JustinMcElroy/status/280796508817874945

Lastly here's a good article on the subject: http://sexyvideogameland.blogspot.com/2012/12/thoughts.html

I'm used to be someone that didn't care about violence in video games. However, I think I'm starting to think that games have become far too violent for me to tolerate any longer. I'm simply asking folks if they're uncomfortable with the rapid growth of violence in video games. I don't have a solution for it, but it is a topic to discuss nonetheless. So what are your thoughts on this issue?

Here's a really good analysis: http://www.whatgamesare.com/2012/08/on-ultraviolence-in-games-and-learning-the-lessons-of-porn.html

No I don't think video games are becoming too violent. Violence is a part of expression and I don't believe in censoring that. That being said there should be some kind of checks in place to see who is accessing violent material. It should be age appropriate and unavailable for people who have certain mental illnesses. But for mentally healthy adults, who can tell the difference between a game/movie/piece of media and reality and the consequences of actions in the real world, bring on the blood and gore.

games have become very violent, so it is the duty of the parent or guardian to make sure their child doesn't play that game

people can hate on grand theft auto, but it is their fault for buying the game without checking the rating system. you don't hear people bitching about the expendables which is a very gory movie but when it comes to a unrealistic videogame than all hell breaks loose because people think it makes us into killers.

in the end if you're uncomfortable with a game then don't play it, it's as simple as that. Some people like violence and some like mario games. some people like horror movies and some like romantic comedies. so yes video games are very violent, and while they should have age restrictions and other stuff they should in no way be banned or anything

@gkhan: Because there always has to be an antagonistic force for the player to overcome and killing and/or violence in general is the easiest game play loop to go to. Everyone understands when you say get from point "A" to point "B" but hey these guys want to stop you and here is a gun. Its obvious and requires little explanation. But since you seem to have a problem with frivolous violence I'm inclined to ask does senseless violence offend you in movies as well?

I love that some games are now becoming so graphic and realistic that the violence is disturbing.

This really reinforced the themes and message behind Max Payne 3 this year. The gameplay was rewarding but looking at the aftermath was just... disturbing. Seeing the slow mo cams, some of the cut scene gore... brutal stuff.

I haven't played Black Ops II to be fair but that did look like too much to me. But that's been CoD for a while at this point.

Here's Patrick Klepek's response to my question which is "are video games becoming too violent?" http://4ms.me/SOK03k

Games have always been violent, the difference is that now we have the technology to actually display the violence in a realistic way. This realism has helped to drive the storytelling in the same, adult direction.

"A former co-chairman of the Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus, Democratic Rep. Mike Thompson, D-Calif., and 10-term House Republican Jack Kingston — a Georgia lawmaker elected with strong National Rifle Association backing — were the latest to join the call to consider gun control as part of a comprehensive, anti-violence effort next year.

'Put guns on the table, also put video games on the table, put mental health on the table,' Kingston said."

from: http://news.yahoo.com/congressional-backing-grows-gun-control-debate-220341844--politics.html

Games have always been incredibly violent. The only difference is that we're at the point where games look pretty close to real and it's starting to get weird.

"It's unfortunate that video game advocates shy away from the power of video games the moment the medium is invoked in a conversation about impact of media violence. Video games ARE powerful, and we need to acknowledge and defend that. Do I think they are responsible for mass shootings? Of course not. But video games do have a culture of violence predicated on a widespread, accepted gameplay mechanic, and it's worth having a conversation about it."- Patrick "Tricky" Klepek

Patrick. I love your articles and you're a good duder and a fantastic writer. I consider myself an advocate (ok, maybe just a smartass with an internet connection) of this medium or at least I try to be. I've accepted that no matter what, gaming is going to be seen as a corrupting influence by individuals and organizations that either don't get the medium or just don't care to understand it. Or to be brutally honest, people who are frankly too goddamn old or out of touch to.

As mentioned before, I remember when the Columbine Massacre had America shaken to it's core. Tragically, the mainstream media was more focused on the fact that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were avid fans of Doom, instead of monsters who decided to amass slews of explosives and firearms and decided to kill a slew of innocent people for kicks. The story became muddied in sheer laziness by mainstream media organizations who decided to indict entertainment as an answer on why American culture is so damned violent. I've been seeing the same patterns in the coverage by CNN and other mainstream media groups. Senators trying to score political points, hack "experts" giving soundbytes filled with biased pseudoscience and anchors (CNN again!) playing irrelevant footage of Starcraft 2because the killer might have played it too!

I have open hostility toward the mainstream media's take on media violence as a result. I also honestly believe that their sensationalist coverage of these kinds of mass shootings gives individuals like Eric Harris, John Holmes and Jared Lee Loughner more motivation to commit atrocities than Call of Duty.

Sadly, one of the sure-fire ways to become famous in America is getting a gun and killing a ton of innocent people.

I don't think there is such a thing as too violent. I think there are two ways of portraying and observing anything of a "mature" nature, and the vast, vast, vast majority of people are the equivalent of thirteen-year-old kids masturbating furiously to Dresden Venus and David.

The vast majority of media producers are the equivalent of Hugh Hefner.

No. For me games are fun. I find it satisfying to shoot the crap out enemies in games and hilarious when they might go flying through the air. I don't feel games have too much violence yet and especially not realistic. If it was very realistic it would probably put me off the game. Give me the games with over done gore like Gears of war.

i think so but im not judging the industry or videogames effects on people, they've just become a bit too violent for me personally or at least the violence is a little too fist bumpy for me.

i feel the violence in a lot of modern games is right on the line of imitating realism but still totally fantastical and ridiculous so you can have actually disturbing events/images but without any of the moral conflict actually associated with violence.

i hear spec ops dealt with that pretty directly but i havent played it.

Not nearly violent enough. Perhaps one day...one day...

I had to look away when that poor fella was burning alive in the ql of Black Ops 2. That was too much I felt

Polygons have feelings too.

I don't think violence is showing in games like movie's, look at Saving Private Ryan you have a guy holding his intestines slowly bleeding out while screaming for his mom, if he was a villian in a video game as soon as 3 bullets hit him he would just fall to the ground with no blood (in most games), I feel games don't show the proper effects of gun violence compared to movie's.

Nope. Just lazy parents and unsupervised children have become the norm...

I want more violence. That God of War multiplayer trailer where the one guy slices right through the other guy's arm and then forks him into a Y shape was not enough for me.

@FancySoapsMan said:

I don't know if they're that much more violent that the games being released when I was kid, to be honest.

the violence just looks better these days.

@Demoskinos said:

@gkhan: Because there always has to be an antagonistic force for the player to overcome and killing and/or violence in general is the easiest game play loop to go to. Everyone understands when you say get from point "A" to point "B" but hey these guys want to stop you and here is a gun. Its obvious and requires little explanation. But since you seem to have a problem with frivolous violence I'm inclined to ask does senseless violence offend you in movies as well?

Here's the thing: a large majority of the movies I watch doesn't have any kind of violence in them, at all. That makes it much easier to watch the occasional shoot-em-up. With videogames it's the exact opposite, so it stands out much more.

But yeah, there's a reason why I'm not watching as much action any more, I am growing a bit sick of the violence there as well. Again, violence have an absolute role to play in movies when it's meaningful and have weight (I love the Coen Brothers, for instance), but mindless mowing down of anonymous dudes is not very appealing to me anymore.

I wouldn't say that games are any more violent than they were a decade ago. Games have always been largely about meeting objectives by committing acts of violence, which is why I'll pay closer attention to a game that doesn't rely on combat to satisfy its gameplay loop.

A better question would be whether violence depicted in games has become overly graphic or salacious, but that's a separate discussion.

To me, I think whether the violence is employed in an interesting and intellectual way is much more important than the level of violenve in the game. Hotline:Miami for instance, is incredibly violent, but because the end goal of that violence is to make the player think about the repercussions of videogame violence (e.g. "Do you like hurting other people?"), it is much less abhorrent than say, Black Ops 2, which has you stare into peoples eyes as the die for 'impact'.