GotG Quarterfinals: Dark Souls vs. Red Dead Demption

If this thing ends up as a Mass Effect 2 vs Dark Souls poll...and Mass Effect 2 somehow fucking wins, I will be so gravely disappointed in this community. SO gravely disappointed.

I have been playing games for 30 years, since my parents first brought home an Atari 2600. I've played thousands of games. There are exactly two which have changed my life in profound ways.

#1 - Quake. Being introduced into that 3D world really opened my eyes to the increasing power and capability of modern computers. It led me to switch my college major from English/Journalism to Computer Science, and I have never looked back. My life today - career, friends, family, hobbies - can be traced directly back to the shareware version of Quake.

#2 - Dark Souls. I have never been so hooked by a game that both harkens back to the true challenge of video games, but also is completely modern in its art direction, style, multiplayer, interaction of systems, and worldbuilding/storytelling. The entirely-voluntary multiplayer component is a revelation for modern games. Being dropped into a concrete, fleshed-out place, not being beaten over the head by cutscenes that tell a half-assed "video game story," but rather unpeeling layers of mythology and structure like an archaeologist; completely refreshing. People are STILL piecing together meaningful story bits and assembling lore that seemed insignificant at first, but which are actually meticulously planned and revelatory. Much like Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones, seeming "villains" become very sympathetic and actually relatable when viewing the bigger picture from another point of view (Lautrec). But if you don't pay attention, you could miss all of it. Which makes it all the more rewarding. The stories of Artorias and Sif have moved me as profoundly as the death of Mordin Solus in Mass Effect 3.

It's icing on the cake that your interactions with this concrete world are governed by one of the best melee combat systems in gaming. The different options provided simply by changing your weapon can lead to an entirely different play style. The varieties of gear, upgrades, techniques, and combat encounters make the game endlessly replayable.

I originally played the game on 360. When the PC port+DLC became available, I jumped in there. And when I learned that the PS3 multiplayer community is the strongest of all, and that Dark Souls 2 would not be a next-gen game, I bought a PS3 specifically for it. Two months ago.

I have probably played about 200 hours of Dark Souls over all three platforms, and most days the first thing I want to do after the kids are in bed is fire it right back up. I'm going to be playing it as soon as I'm done with this stupid post. I can say without doubt that it is my favorite game ever and a momentous achievement for the industry.

Red Dead Redemption - I was bored to tears by the time I entered Mexico. Soldiered on for the "amazing story." It was okay, the end bits were kind of neat. A solid "yeah, that's an okay game." Overrated, but still the best and most logically-consistent Rockstar game since Bully.

I'm sorry, all you Dark Souls haters. You may think we are victims of a mass delusion. You may think we are somehow trying to be hipster or contrary by disdaining COD-bros and the FCG and the gaming gods at Rockstar. You're incorrect. Dark Souls is the best game of the generation, and in the conversation for one of the best of all time.

Mass Effect 2 shouldn't even be included in these polls. Pathetic plot and boring corridor shooting with chest-high cover blocks everywhere, giving away enemy encounters from miles away. It's only redeeming quality were the aesthetics. It's probably going to happen unfortunately.

Red Dead is the best game Rockstar has ever made. But my love for Dark Souls runs deep.

Ever since I saw pictures, then videos, and finally got to see the guys do a quick look of it, I have been in love with the Souls line of games. Bought Demons Souls, even though I don't have a ps3, just so I could play it on my friends. Dark Souls just built up more on that love, and I would love to see it go all the way on here, easily among my top games of all time. Only game I think could stand a chance to it in this bracket (besides Crusader Kings 2, which fell far too long ago) would have to be Skyrim.

I wasn't intending to make an argument about relevance or impact, I was only trying to elaborate on why I think the Dark Souls fanbase seems so passionate about the game. I also wasn't intending to suggest that modern games as a whole have abandoned gameplay as a significant component, just that it is no longer the toppriority. That's not to make a statement about that being "better" or "worse," it's just different strokes for different folks. This has the effect, though, of leaving people like me who love game mechanics over all else with fewer games that fit our tastes. So when one really excels (and make no mistake, I think regardless the quality of Dark Souls is through the roof) in that area, it stands out even more so.

I also just have to fundamentally disagree with you on Dark Souls being "janky," in my opinion it has the best melee combat of any game I've ever played. It certainly has flaws, but none that detract from what I love so much about the game.

O_____O GODDDAMN! SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS HOW I FEEL ABOUT MASS EFFECT 2! I...I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO RIGHT NOW!

I would even argue about the aesthetics. Mass Effect 1 was FAR better aesthetically, especially in the music department. There was a solid lack of "Vangelis-esque" music in ME2.

Red Dead did that type of open world real well. One could even say it did that type of open world the best this generation. But fuck that type of open world.

If the rest of the Mass Effect series had continued on more like the first one, I don't think there is anything that could beat that series for me. That first game just had so much better an atmosphere. All downhill from there for me :/

Hah.

You guys are really going to do this, aren't you?

Shame.

@jakob187: The original Mass Effect does have a lot going for it. The fact that it was our introduction to the universe meant everything was fresh and new. The music, as you mentioned, was absolutely perfect, given the setting and the mood. The RPG systems were at their best in 1, providing many ways to spec your Shepard, and finding loot was still a thing. Some of the scenes, particularly the Sovereign reveal, still ring in my mind to this day.

The problem becomes apparent when you get into the gameplay aspects. Let's get the Mako out of the way, that was very hit or miss and we can argue all day whether the pointless mining mini game was a better choice. The cover system, good lord how I hate context sensitive cover mechanics. I had slogged through Kane & Lynch the year before and this was bringing back some bad memories. The Frisbee grenades lost their value after being amused at first, but then realizing how useless they truly are. And then we have the Noveria problem, where you have to fight Matriach Benezia and her endless supply of Asari Commandos. I love a challenge as much as the next person, but I felt as though she was nigh-unbeatable if you chose to go to Noveria before Feros and the other planet where you rescue Liara. I was fighting against the poor gameplay mechanics as much as I was the boss. Finally, we come to what might be the game's biggest blemish: the save system. I had to take a long (we're talking months) break from the game after dying sometime on Noveria only to find myself put back at a checkpoint that must've been more than an hour ago. People think walking back through a level in a Souls game is bullshit, they don't know what true pain is. I've completed Insanity on ME2, but haven't given the same treatment to the others (ME3 I may revisit some day). It was the middle ground I had hoped for. The gameplay was serviceable and I was invested in the setting and the characters enough for the choices to really hit home. I still think it nailed the atmosphere in some parts (dead Reaper and Collector ship in particular). The soundtrack, whilst focusing on a different tone, was still a service to my eardrums. We were also spoilt for choice regarding crew members, so much so that I was incredibly bummed out when I saw the complete line-up come 3, which felt like a huge step-down.

Oh and another problem with the original, at least on 360, the performance was insufferable at times.

@bushpusherr: EDIT: OY! My post just disappeared!! Aw man. I'm not about to rewrite that whole thing but in short, yes you're right but I still think there is a dissonance between what that game is and how fanatic people are over it. That and I find that it's commitment to that difficulty and core combat seems to be a justification for everything it does, good and bad, which I find somewhat frustrating.

I'm a Red Dead guy, so that's my vote, but it seems like Dark Souls is probably the more deserving game.

Dark Souls is my game of the generation.

This one feels like it should have been the finals.

I get that a lot of people really love Dark Souls, but to me it really does not seem like the caliber of game to be called the game of this ENTIRE generation, especially over a game like Red Dead. It seems like here on Giant Bomb people are way more into the game than anywhere else I go to, not to mention I do not know a single person off of the internet that likes the game at all.

I certainly do see what the appeal is for people, I guess I am just surprised at how crazy people around these parts are for it. It seems like it did spike once Vinny started playing it, I am assuming that plays at least a small part in it.

Of course choosing a single game to be called the game of the generation is something I probably could not even do, far too many games I enjoyed immensely in this incredibly long generation.

It's Super Meat Boy, an early loser. You guys suck.

Oh boy! Things are starting to wrap up. I'm really excited to see what games face off next. I voted for Dark Souls by the way, becasue that's in my top ten games of all time, and sadly Red Dead is not.(Love the game though!)

To be fair this GotG thing is being done to see what the overall Giant Bomb community thinks is the game of the generation. To have a universal game of the generation would be impossible and insane.

kinda with Jeff on this one - not a fan of western games.

@jakob187: That's exactly what will happen.

RDR is my game of the generation, but I feel like Dark Souls is just going to beat everything and that bums me out. Dark Souls is great, but it's not the game of the generation.

Dark Souls, to me and apparently a lot of other people with this hobby, is a fucking video game. One that doesn't only convey a story to the player, but creates stories.

To me, when I talk about Red Dead Redemption, I talk about my favorite parts. When I talk about Dark Souls, I talk about my favorite experiences.

This could go on forever. I like RDR, but I love Dark Souls, and I think some of the themes in it will be (are being) implemented again as everyone scrambles to find "the next big thing" this generation. Red Dead will be known as the stepping stone between GTAIV and V where R* learned how to even further refine their storytelling and mechanics.

I hope you're happy Dark Souls. You just had to push it didn't you. This is probably where I break and refuse to participate in these polls because clearly what is one man against the hoard of Dark Souls madness that will slowly but surely consume all.

The mission statement of these polls from the beginning has been to be as arbitrary and maddening as possible and they are doing stellar.

Join us...

Nah man, people have been screaming at the staff to play more of it for years before Vinny started the Load our last Soul thing. I don't think Vinny playing it has much of anything to do with these results. Not like Sleeping Dogs beating GTA V in any case.

I don't even disagree with you about Dark Souls being the better game but this is such a nothing statement. If you were to swap the game names there it'd be equally valid (which is to say equally meaningless).

Prepare to Di.... be disappointed.

Then let me elaborate: In Red Dead I like the part where you ride into Mexico for the first time. A scene that R* crafted in order to make me feel a certain way. In Dark Souls I invaded a guy with a dumb name like "xXdarkJEDI69Xx". I noticed he was struggling in a particularly hard room in a midpoint in the game. I ended up deciding not to kill him and instead used the ingame gesture system to show him where a short cut was that he was missing. It felt extremely rewarding and a use of the mechanics that I hadn't really considered (no aggro from NPCs when invading.)

I guess my point is that those kinds of personal experiences in DaS held a lot more weight for me rather than the parts that were meticulously crafted by R* for RDR.

@negativecero said:

That's alright friend. It was fun while it lasted but I think it's high time I saddle up and go on my way...

As always: The better game will lose here. Dark Souls is great, but RDR is an Achievement of Videogaming. But this wouldn´t be as stupid as the SleepingDogs-GTA V-Poll, because Dark Souls stands as symbol for the "real" gamers. I wouldn´t be surprised if it would win the whole thing.

I like how completely defeatist the Red Dead Redemption voters are becoming in this thread. For the entirety of the Walking Dead vs The Last of Us poll, people were going "OH MAN THIS IS SO CLOSE BOTH OF THESE GAMES ARE GREAT BUT WHICH WILL WIN IT'S SO TENSE". Here it's just "Well I can't believe this fucking injustice all hope is lost RDR is dead" when there's still a bunch of time left and it's a 51/49 split.

RDR is more a technical achievement. Graphics, animations, wildlife (which is reduced to superfluous currency), etc. But Dark Souls is a better game. The gameplay is most important in an action game. RDR is too repetitive and simple to be superior.

This is a fucking disgrace. Granted, I haven't played Dark Souls but I've watched like 10 hours of Vinny playing it and while it does seem really interesting and unique it really doesn't seem like its a particularly good or well made game. It just seems like it has fun gameplay, almost in spite of itself, but everything else about it seems pretty poor.

Red Dead on the other hand has top notch everything. The characterisation and storytelling are properly top notch, the world is beautifully realised and the production values are insanely high, the soundtrack is incredible, the level and mission design are consistently interesting and the gameplay mechanics are solid. It seems like a really good fit for GOTG because it is so consistently excellent across all the facets of game design.

I would honestly be okay with either one of these two winning the whole thing.

So whichever one takes this round, it'd better be the GotG, too.

Oh man this is the most difficult one for me to judge. RDR was an amazing experience. I had a very enjoyable time with it as it was a scene that hadn't been played out.. the landscape really had me appreciating the old west, and I felt like I was part of that world.

I must say though, Dark Souls has just the mystical fear I crave. Everytime I try to put it down, it keeps luring me back in.. To think I almost gave up on it though. I didn't quite grasp the concepts coming from Demon's Souls, like I thought I would. Even though I think Demon's Souls is a better game, Thanks to Vinny, I gave Dark Souls another go, and am glad I did.

Dark Souls by an inch.

Yah I was a little shocked to not see Demons Souls instead. Dark Souls became more popular but I wouldn't say it was a better game. It just got caught in the YouTube Let's Play machine.

Another close one, rooting for Dark Souls, though!

@humanity: As a living example, I think a lot more people actually played dark souls. Though I have heard plenty of people who have played both and preferred dark souls, liking the boss encounters more and the semi-open design. I don't think anyone would deny that it's iterative, but you could make the argument that Demon's Souls was iterative on King's Field, so there's that.

Battle of the titans.

As I said, Dark Souls got wrapped up in the growing YouTube populace that wasn't nearly as evolved when Demons came out - YouTube being mainly populated by Call of Duty channels and Minecraft only slowly creeping onto the scene. That combined with the PS3 exclusivity limited the appeal.

As for the bosses and such, well thats subjective. Being a huge Demons fan I find almost all bosses in Dark Souls to be somewhat boring copies and I found the open world to be more tedious than it was worth. I liked Dark Souls, but having sunk a lot of hours into the previous title and seeing very minimal changes and a worse framerate/online I simply wasn't as drawn in. Opinions and all.

If this poll had been done 18 months ago, I would have gone with Red Dead all day long. Now though, Dark Souls has worked it’s black magic on me and I will be fighting for it until the bitter end (or the final if what I think wins does in fact win).

Toughest one for me yet, but it has to go to DS.

I like Dark Souls a lot, but fucking Red Dead, man. Red Dead Redemption is fucking amazing. It's easily my favorite game this generation. It's hard for me to think of something about it I don't like.

Red Dead is fantastic. Utterly utterly brilliant.

Dark souls is even better.

Dark Souls is the best.

This choice is really hard. I think both titles are really excellent games, but that being said, I think I enjoyed my time with Red Dead Redemption just a teensy bit more. I also think that the Dark Souls/Demon Souls franchise still has room to evolve and grow. My vote goes to Red Dead Redemption.