" @Snipzor said:That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions?" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business. "" @Bellum said:But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
It's Our Giant Bomb Too
" @Cube said:Did you read the first post?" @Bellum said:Praise Jeff, the holy Gerstmann! This has nothing to do with "prestige" or "worthiness". This has to do with building a good community site. "" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
It's right there. The community content is as important and should be integrated with Editorial, and it DESERVES the same PRESTIGE as the Editorial.
Sure it has nothing to do with prestige?
In terms of community, we create a lot of content on this site...but I think the community is starting to get their role a bit mixed up. We are the supporters, the writers of the Wiki, and the general attitude that Giant Bomb has.
The staff run this site. They create the reviews, the video content, the Bombcast - the shit that we come here for. If you were to look at the number of people who actually regularly edit the Wiki stuff, I can almost guarantee that the percentage number of users registered to the site compared to the number of people regularly editing the Wiki stuff is below 20%.
And every registered user makes up "the community". It's not just some small group of people that inhabit an IRC channel...or the top posters on the forums...or this or that. This isn't fucking high school.
The community needs to just be the community. We are given plenty of recognition, and we are also given plenty of tools to create stuff. We have links on the front fucking page for a Featured User Review, the guides that we write, the forums that we occupy, the trivia that we create, a direct link for the actual user database...I mean, seriously, people are getting their panties in a bunch over what? The fact that we don't have our own gaming site or something? They don't feel like we have our own place? WE DO! We're here, in the forums, every damn day.
So please, for the love of God, appreciate what you folks have rather than pulling this usual "we don't have enough" shit. We have plenty, and I'm thankful for it all.
" @Br3adfan said:If you think about it the community really does make this site work. Would the Wiki be as good if it was just updated by the staff? Would there be awesome guides if they were all made by the staff? Would there be awesome forums if only the staff posted in them?" @Cube said:It's just something to do, a good time waster. After I log out, I am about my day as nothing ever happened. I don't feel like the community is such a big part of my life. Nor do I think it's deserving of the same prestige the staff get. "" @Snipzor said:Nobody here is acting in a pretentious manner, the idea was simply proposed. Yet, you feel the need to continuously post nothing but negative things instead of carrying out an actual discussion. If you really didn't care about the community aspect of the site so much, then why spend so much time commenting on this thread? "" I feel quite terrible that I don't participate within the community enough. Can someone explain to me why people like Cube are being such dicks about this? "Because I'm not pretentious and believe that the community deserves front page recognition? "
I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page.
This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything.
Also, what @jakob187 said.
" @Cube said:Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc." @Snipzor said:That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business. "" @Bellum said:But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks.
" @Snipzor said:Now you are dealing in logical fallacies. Simply because a greater number of people might read the staff reviews over the community reviews does not make one inherently greater than the other. It's all about visibility, if community reviews and articles were much more visible, then a logical conclusion would be that the readership of community content would be much larger. Also, you are pretending as if the worst of the contributions are getting paired up with the staff reviews, thus making your arguments biased from the start. We are talking about quality here, and when something is of high quality, it doesn't matter what their titles are." @Cube said:Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc. So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks. "" @Snipzor said:That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business. ""It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "
Give a reason as to why great community contributions cannot be as great as the work from the staff members. A real reason.
" @Bellum said:
" @Cube said:Did you read the first post? It's right there. The community content is as important and should be integrated with Editorial, and it DESERVES the same PRESTIGE as the Editorial. Sure it has nothing to do with prestige? "" @Bellum said:Praise Jeff, the holy Gerstmann! This has nothing to do with "prestige" or "worthiness". This has to do with building a good community site. "" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
I think you are putting emphasis into an idea that is inconsequential.
@jakob187 said:
"They create the reviews, the video content, the Bombcast - the shit that we come here for. If you were to look at the number of people who actually regularly edit the Wiki stuff, I can almost guarantee that the percentage number of users registered to the site compared to the number of people regularly editing the Wiki stuff is below 20%. "
Speak for yourself, I didn't come here because of the staff and I don't stay here because of the staff, even though they are pretty fucking awesome. As to the percentage of people who make use of the wiki edit features? Whatever. I wonder how many people read the wiki?
@Milkman said:
" I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site.
Wow, vitriolic diatribe is deep in this thread.
@brukaoru:
I agree on your Endogène point. for all talk of community, a lot of the users here did not even care to discus the validity of his post and his points, only caring to dismiss the over the top way that he chose to express it,
And to the user that you referred to, it is not the Moderators that chose that, it was the Staff, The user in question was going to be Un-banned by Jeff until he subverted his banning and made a dick of himself (again) and Jeff dismissed him.
The Mods do an exceptionally good job with the tools and loose rules that this site provides, it's hard to enforce rules that aren't like an iron vice, I really appreciate what the Mods do, and I disapprove how they are treated by some of this community that believes that they should be on every troll thread as soon as it's inception when instead of users just flagging and leaving the thread to die, the keep posting and never let the Mods know, what they don't see they can't moderate can they?
Back to this thread, In my view, I like this place, I like the community, it's the only community that I have joined I was a member of GS for 8 Years and I posted 20 times and made 2 blogs, one where Jeff was fired and then my leaving blog when Alex N left,
I am all for the tab Idea, I am all for this place getting better, I am also all for this type of discussion, because you really get to the heart of the matter when everyone speaks plainly,
So yeah, those are my points, take them as you will.
I think that the community here is really great and I am proud to be a giantbomber.
I have to agree with what seems to be the majority of posters here. I'm not a professional games enthusiast (yet!), and I'm definitely not sitting in the Giant Bomb offices typing this right now, so my content doesn't deserve to be showcased as the staff's is.
So I see this being a repeat of the Endogene thread.
Regardless, we're not the Giant Bomb staff and therefore we should not be given the same spotlight as they are.
@Milkman said:Never said that. I said that the community stuff shouldn't be on the front page because at its core, this site, like any other good video game site, is about the staff. I'm all for a community section of some kind or a tab. But I feel if the front page was overloaded with community stuff, it would turn away new users because the majority of people who come to the site for the first time would be here to see Jeff, Brad, Ryan and Vinny, not Jensonb." I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site. "
Also, the reason I'm posting so much is because the arguement seemed pretty lopsided for a while and everyone seemed to be ganging up on Cube so I wanted to give him a little back up.
" @Cube said:Listen." @Snipzor said:Now you are dealing in logical fallacies. Simply because a greater number of people might read the staff reviews over the community reviews does not make one inherently greater than the other. It's all about visibility, if community reviews and articles were much more visible, then a logical conclusion would be that the readership of community content would be much larger. Also, you are pretending as if the worst of the contributions are getting paired up with the staff reviews, thus making your arguments biased from the start. We are talking about quality here, and when something is of high quality, it doesn't matter what their titles are. Give a reason as to why great community contributions cannot be as great as the work from the staff members. A real reason. "" @Cube said:Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc. So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks. "" @Snipzor said:That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business. ""It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "
Just because someone is legitimate and backed by many years of professional video game journalism, doesn't mean they are untouchable and no one can produce as high quality content as them. I understand that point of view.
But I believe it does not deserve to be front and center because of GB and the business aspect. The staff knows the community is great, look on the front page, Jeff posted a guide saying thanks to the users who made it. But GB is their project, their baby. They probably have a business approach to everything and want their own hands on the steering wheel. Now, I know it wouldn't mean they'd lose their creation to the community, that's not what I'm saying. But this is a growing business that can be brought down very quickly with one bad move. I think they're comfortable handling everything themselves, and having to monitor the community articles or anything similar is probably too much to worry about. They joke around a lot but they always make sure what they put up is of good quality. It's easier for the staff and the community still has the forums.
" @Bellum said:@Milkman said:Never said that. I said that the community stuff shouldn't be on the front page because at its core, this site, like any other good video game site, is about the staff. I'm all for a community section of some kind or a tab. But I feel if the front page was overloaded with community stuff, it would turn away new users because the majority of people who come to the site for the first time would be here to see Jeff, Brad, Ryan and Vinny, not Jensonb. Also, the reason I'm posting so much is because the arguement seemed pretty lopsided for a while and everyone seemed to be ganging up on Cube so I wanted to give him a little back up. "" I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site. "
Why does a good gaming site have to be about the staff, and why is GiantBomb about the staff exclusively? I don't feel that way at all. I think after Wikipedia we can see that a site can focus exclusively on the community and also have an extremely high quality. Also, the OP, from my understanding, is not suggesting implementing something that in some form or another does not already exist, rather it suggests that what exists should be organized in a better way. Do you really feel that if someone saw, say, a high quality review made by Jensonb in a list on the front page, they would turn away from the site?
" @Milkman said:" @Bellum said:Why does a good gaming site have to be about the staff, and why is GiantBomb about the staff exclusively? I don't feel that way at all. I think after Wikipedia we can see that a site can focus exclusively on the community and also have an extremely high quality. Also, the OP, from my understanding, is not suggesting implementing something that in some form or another does not already exist, rather it suggests that what exists should be organized in a better way. Do you really feel that if someone saw, say, a high quality review made by Jensonb in a list on the front page, they would turn away from the site? "@Milkman said:Never said that. I said that the community stuff shouldn't be on the front page because at its core, this site, like any other good video game site, is about the staff. I'm all for a community section of some kind or a tab. But I feel if the front page was overloaded with community stuff, it would turn away new users because the majority of people who come to the site for the first time would be here to see Jeff, Brad, Ryan and Vinny, not Jensonb. Also, the reason I'm posting so much is because the arguement seemed pretty lopsided for a while and everyone seemed to be ganging up on Cube so I wanted to give him a little back up. "" I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site. "
I can guarantee if a group of random gamers that could write got together (Let's say.. 4 or 5) and made a website making video content and reviews, that they would NOT get the amount of exposure this website has gotten.
People come here for the staff. The community is an added bonus.
" @Snipzor said:[Might as well dump the first paragraph of your comment there, the second you said "but I believe", you immediately threw away the previous statement. I might as well do the same]." @Cube said:But I believe it does not deserve to be front and center because of GB and the business aspect. The staff knows the community is great, look on the front page, Jeff posted a guide saying thanks to the users who made it. But GB is their project, their baby. They probably have a business approach to everything and want their own hands on the steering wheel. Now, I know it wouldn't mean they'd lose their creation to the community, that's not what I'm saying. But this is a growing business that can be brought down very quickly with one bad move. I think they're comfortable handling everything themselves, and having to monitor the community articles or anything similar is probably too much to worry about. They joke around a lot but they always make sure what they put up is of good quality. It's easier for the staff and the community still has the forums. "" @Snipzor said:Now you are dealing in logical fallacies. Simply because a greater number of people might read the staff reviews over the community reviews does not make one inherently greater than the other. It's all about visibility, if community reviews and articles were much more visible, then a logical conclusion would be that the readership of community content would be much larger. Also, you are pretending as if the worst of the contributions are getting paired up with the staff reviews, thus making your arguments biased from the start. We are talking about quality here, and when something is of high quality, it doesn't matter what their titles are. Give a reason as to why great community contributions cannot be as great as the work from the staff members. A real reason. ""That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc. So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks. "
How much do you actually know of what the staff members feel about this particular issue? I mean, the only thing that is being suggested at the start of the post is that excellent community contributions be given more visible spotlight. As opposed to your interpretation, of completely taking over the main page with community contributions, which is not at all what was suggested by the first post.
" @Bellum said:" @Milkman said:I can guarantee if a group of random gamers that could write got together (Let's say.. 4 or 5) and made a website making video content and reviews, that they would NOT get the amount of exposure this website has gotten. People come here for the staff. The community is an added bonus. "" @Bellum said:Why does a good gaming site have to be about the staff, and why is GiantBomb about the staff exclusively? I don't feel that way at all. I think after Wikipedia we can see that a site can focus exclusively on the community and also have an extremely high quality. Also, the OP, from my understanding, is not suggesting implementing something that in some form or another does not already exist, rather it suggests that what exists should be organized in a better way. Do you really feel that if someone saw, say, a high quality review made by Jensonb in a list on the front page, they would turn away from the site? "@Milkman said:Never said that. I said that the community stuff shouldn't be on the front page because at its core, this site, like any other good video game site, is about the staff. I'm all for a community section of some kind or a tab. But I feel if the front page was overloaded with community stuff, it would turn away new users because the majority of people who come to the site for the first time would be here to see Jeff, Brad, Ryan and Vinny, not Jensonb. Also, the reason I'm posting so much is because the arguement seemed pretty lopsided for a while and everyone seemed to be ganging up on Cube so I wanted to give him a little back up. "" I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site. "
Probably not, but that's got nothing to do with my argument. I'm not suggesting that four o five random gamers get together and make a website featuring video game reviews. I'm suggesting this site have quality community support. It already does, of course, but it can always be improved on, and the community support is a selling point.
We already have that. There is already featured user reviews on the front page. And yeah, I do think if the front page was cluttered with community stuff, it would turn away some people." @Milkman said:
" @Bellum said:Why does a good gaming site have to be about the staff, and why is GiantBomb about the staff exclusively? I don't feel that way at all. I think after Wikipedia we can see that a site can focus exclusively on the community and also have an extremely high quality. Also, the OP, from my understanding, is not suggesting implementing something that in some form or another does not already exist, rather it suggests that what exists should be organized in a better way. Do you really feel that if someone saw, say, a high quality review made by Jensonb in a list on the front page, they would turn away from the site? "@Milkman said:Never said that. I said that the community stuff shouldn't be on the front page because at its core, this site, like any other good video game site, is about the staff. I'm all for a community section of some kind or a tab. But I feel if the front page was overloaded with community stuff, it would turn away new users because the majority of people who come to the site for the first time would be here to see Jeff, Brad, Ryan and Vinny, not Jensonb. Also, the reason I'm posting so much is because the arguement seemed pretty lopsided for a while and everyone seemed to be ganging up on Cube so I wanted to give him a little back up. "" I don't understand why you people are so obsessed with the community being front and center. Everyone knows where to find the community if they want to. It's not that hard to click forums. And like I said, you still have all your followed blogs on the front page. This thread is just going in circles and isn't really solving anything. "
It's an interesting discussion, but as someone who doesn't even use the front page, I'm not particularly obsessed with the outcome. What I would be interested to know why you seem to be so obsessed with your contrary position. You seem to feel like stronger community support would lower the quality of the site. "
Most of all, though, I just don't see what the big deal is. Sweep already had his post about the community tab, which was a good idea. It was well-thought out. He had a nice mock up. He did a good job. What's the point of this thread? Did Sweep just get everyone into the mood that they can just make demands? Hell, Jeff even responded to Sweep's thread saying that they were working on it. If the staff decides tomorrow to agree with this post and slap some community stuff on the front page, fine. If they don't, fine. If they make that community tab, wonderful. I think the tab is a nice compromise. Either way, it's not a big deal. I don't really understand what's so bad about the community now that it needs all these changes. We got the forums, the followed blogs and the Twitter integration is real nice. Everyone seems to be complain about the community not being like it used to be, in the good old days but they don't really explain what's different. Building a website ain't easy. It doesn't all need to be about the staff and I don't think it is all about the staff now. But the community has it's place and it doesn't need to dominate the site to be effective.
I only come here for the editorial stuff. I haven't read any user made guides or wiki's, and I likely never will. I just sometimes like to see the GB staff do silly things that make me chuckle.
" @Cube said:How does that "throw away" my statement?" @Snipzor said:[Might as well dump the first paragraph of your comment there, the second you said "but I believe", you immediately threw away the previous statement. I might as well do the same]. How much do you actually know of what the staff members feel about this particular issue? I mean, the only thing that is being suggested at the start of the post is that excellent community contributions be given more visible spotlight. As opposed to your interpretation, of completely taking over the main page with community contributions, which is not at all what was suggested by the first post. "" @Cube said:But I believe it does not deserve to be front and center because of GB and the business aspect. The staff knows the community is great, look on the front page, Jeff posted a guide saying thanks to the users who made it. But GB is their project, their baby. They probably have a business approach to everything and want their own hands on the steering wheel. Now, I know it wouldn't mean they'd lose their creation to the community, that's not what I'm saying. But this is a growing business that can be brought down very quickly with one bad move. I think they're comfortable handling everything themselves, and having to monitor the community articles or anything similar is probably too much to worry about. They joke around a lot but they always make sure what they put up is of good quality. It's easier for the staff and the community still has the forums. "" @Snipzor said:Now you are dealing in logical fallacies. Simply because a greater number of people might read the staff reviews over the community reviews does not make one inherently greater than the other. It's all about visibility, if community reviews and articles were much more visible, then a logical conclusion would be that the readership of community content would be much larger. Also, you are pretending as if the worst of the contributions are getting paired up with the staff reviews, thus making your arguments biased from the start. We are talking about quality here, and when something is of high quality, it doesn't matter what their titles are. Give a reason as to why great community contributions cannot be as great as the work from the staff members. A real reason. ""That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc. So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks. "
I said I can UNDERSTAND that statement, because it's true. Jeff and co. are not the Saints of the Journalism world. But My second paragraph talks about the fact that this is THEIR website. That doesn't throw away ANYTHING. I believe all of these things because I can't say they are fact. I am not Jeff, I'm not the CEO of GB or Whiskey Media.
As for me thinking "the community taking over the main page", I already said it WOULDN'T mean they would lose their creation to the community.
I don't think the staff would give the community the same prestige as they get themselves. That's the point of a community. We don't work for GB. We react to the content and talk about things with fellow people in the community. They sure do give us some great privileges like editing the wiki. But this is their business. We are external. It doesn't matter how good someones blog is.
Cluttered is a bit of a loaded word, don't you think? Nobody is suggesting that the front page be "cluttered". In fact, the main point I took away from this is that the stuff on the front page is poorly organized, and the quality of what is there should be chosen more carefully." We already have that. There is already featured user reviews on the front page. And yeah, I do think if the front page was cluttered with community stuff, it would turn away some people. "
Again, "demands" seems a bit extreme. I don't think the OP is telling the staff what to do, rather giving his opinion. Which is also what the point of this thread is.Most of all, though, I just don't see what the big deal is. Sweep already had his post about the community tab, which was a good idea. It was well-thought out. He had a nice mock up. He did a good job. What's the point of this thread? Did Sweep just get everyone into the mood that they can just make demands?
But the community has it's place and it doesn't need to dominate the site to be effective.
It doesn't have to, and it probably shouldn't. But I think the assertion that it couldn't is false, and I think there are some pretty good modern examples to back that up. As far as the other stuff, I don't know about that. I don't read all the threads in this forum by far, so I could have just missed it.
Okay, here's another excuse for the community not being on the front page.
When you have whiners like this, who think a internet forum is so important that they have to actively leave it, then that says to me that this community is not mature enough to have content along side the staff. That's what makes the community look bad, along with that Endogene bullshit. It makes it look like a bunch of whiny kids who just quit if they don't get their way.
Also, the *static* and black picture is a nice touch.
" Okay, here's another excuse for the community not being on the front page. When you have whiners like this, who think a internet forum is so important that they have to actively leave it, then that says to me that this community is not mature enough to have content along side the staff. That's what makes the community look bad, along with that Endogene bullshit. It makes it look like a bunch of whiny kids who just quit if they don't get their way. Also, the *static* and black picture is a nice touch. "
Calling someone a whiny kid because they take the site more seriously than you do certainly makes you seem like a very wise adult.
Who's belittling the Giant Bomb community? I'll kick their ass!
" Okay, here's another excuse for the community not being on the front page. When you have whiners like this, who think a internet forum is so important that they have to actively leave it, then that says to me that this community is not mature enough to have content along side the staff. That's what makes the community look bad, along with that Endogene bullshit. It makes it look like a bunch of whiny kids who just quit if they don't get their way. Also, the *static* and black picture is a nice touch. "Your attitude toward Nate's departure and my observation and opinion of your past posting history leads me to believe you're one of the last people in this community that should judge who's a whiner or immature.
" @Milkman said:I know you're trying to be condescending and everything but when you speak in such general terms like that, I have trouble understanding exactly where you're coming from. I get you're trying to imply I'm immature. Anything immature I posted (I'm sure there's plenty. This is the internet) doesn't really compare to making a "dramatic website exit". At least, I don't think so." Okay, here's another excuse for the community not being on the front page. When you have whiners like this, who think a internet forum is so important that they have to actively leave it, then that says to me that this community is not mature enough to have content along side the staff. That's what makes the community look bad, along with that Endogene bullshit. It makes it look like a bunch of whiny kids who just quit if they don't get their way. Also, the *static* and black picture is a nice touch. "Your attitude toward Nate's departure and my observation and opinion of your past posting history leads me to believe you're one of the last people in this community that should judge who's a whiner or immature. "
i never said compromise was silly, i said having an option to omit community promos from the promo bar is just silly." @TheHT: Oh, compromise is silly? I beg your pardon then, I thought were having a discussion. "
why alter something that's really the primary focus on the homepage and then add an option to make it as if it was never altered. sounds less like compromise and more like desperation to have the site be exactly the way you want it.
@Snipzor said:
1. what cube said wasn't common sense." @Cube said:
" @Snipzor said:Now you are dealing in logical fallacies. Simply because a greater number of people might read the staff reviews over the community reviews does not make one inherently greater than the other. It's all about visibility, if community reviews and articles were much more visible, then a logical conclusion would be that the readership of community content would be much larger. Also, you are pretending as if the worst of the contributions are getting paired up with the staff reviews, thus making your arguments biased from the start. We are talking about quality here, and when something is of high quality, it doesn't matter what their titles are. Give a reason as to why great community contributions cannot be as great as the work from the staff members. A real reason. "" @Cube said:Maybe in the Wiki. The Wiki was a big part of it, and I think user-created guides are great, but not on the same plane as editorial reviews, previews, etc. So because I used common sense it's bullshit? Give me a break. There's a reason why people like to read staff reviews over just seeing what the community thinks. "" @Snipzor said:That's common sense understanding, which as I said, is bullshit. Simply because they are staff members, does not instantly give them an infinite weight of credibility over everyone in everything. Jeff, Ryan, Brad and Vinny can't be everywhere at once, and can't write about everything that comes to light. Wasn't the entire purpose of this website based on community contributions? "" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business. ""It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "
2. what do you have against common sense?
3. the point wasn't that they're staff and therefore credible, the point was they're journalists. it's their job, and they've been doing it for a while. you've totally missed the argument there.
4. cube never said that more people read the staff reviews over the user reviews, he said there's a reason why people PREFER to read staff reviews over user reviews. again, you've commited a strawman fallacy.
@Br3adfan said:
" @Cube said:i don't understand some people, really. this IS a discussion. someone being on the other side doens't make them debbie downer douchbags who are only there to troll. all that you quoted was a response to being called a dick. why don't you quote all the other posts he made?" @Snipzor said:Nobody here is acting in a pretentious manner, the idea was simply proposed. Yet, you feel the need to continuously post nothing but negative things instead of carrying out an actual discussion. If you really didn't care about the community aspect of the site so much, then why spend so much time commenting on this thread? "" I feel quite terrible that I don't participate within the community enough. Can someone explain to me why people like Cube are being such dicks about this? "Because I'm not pretentious and believe that the community deserves front page recognition? "
it's like some of you categorize any form of opposition as 'haters'. lmao.
" Holy fuck, I'm a fake-internet-celebrity. Who wants to touch me? Well... you shouldn't. I have STD's. ;) "Sup Sweep. I don't know if you noticed, but this thread is a madhouse.
Why? I don't know!
" I dislike the whole, "I have x number of posts, x number of wiki points, and x number of followers, and id like to think thats pretty impressive" Endogene, is that you??? "
You are really starting to wear on my nerves. Who said that and what relevance does this have to the discussion, other than to discredit the contrary position?
Well, in Nate's good-bye post, you stated:" @Hailinel said:
" @Milkman said:I know you're trying to be condescending and everything but when you speak in such general terms like that, I have trouble understanding exactly where you're coming from. I get you're trying to imply I'm immature. Anything immature I posted (I'm sure there's plenty. This is the internet) doesn't really compare to making a "dramatic website exit". At least, I don't think so. "" Okay, here's another excuse for the community not being on the front page. When you have whiners like this, who think a internet forum is so important that they have to actively leave it, then that says to me that this community is not mature enough to have content along side the staff. That's what makes the community look bad, along with that Endogene bullshit. It makes it look like a bunch of whiny kids who just quit if they don't get their way. Also, the *static* and black picture is a nice touch. "Your attitude toward Nate's departure and my observation and opinion of your past posting history leads me to believe you're one of the last people in this community that should judge who's a whiner or immature. "
Seriously, what made you think that was necessary? That's just a dick move.MY NAME IS ENDOGENE
" @Cube said:It's not my fault you react to things." I dislike the whole, "I have x number of posts, x number of wiki points, and x number of followers, and id like to think thats pretty impressive" Endogene, is that you??? "You are really starting to wear on my nerves. Who said that and what relevance does this have to the discussion, other than to discredit the contrary position? "
I was saying that in response to what Milkman linked...natetodamax's dramatic exit....
Shoulda quoted it. Oh well! :)
However, I come here because the staff is so endearing. Sometimes, though, I want to know how people like me feel about something. That's why the community is useful.
I don't really have any other explanation for it besides that. I guess that's immature but the whole thing is just so silly that how can I not make fun of it? If he truly is sticking to his word, he'll never read it anwyay. And if it truly offends him, then really, that's his problem. My comments on the internet shouldn't personally effect anyone.
can we get over this already no one wants this community crap anyways.
" @Sweep said:I think it's pretty funny. When I wrote my blog I just wanted community content to get more exposure. I think you people are all fucking crazy." Holy fuck, I'm a fake-internet-celebrity. Who wants to touch me? Well... you shouldn't. I have STD's. ;) "Sup Sweep. I don't know if you noticed, but this thread is a madhouse. Why? I don't know! "
Yo... does anyone want to talk about Mass Effect 2?
" @Bellum said:
" @Cube said:It's not my fault you react to things. I was saying that in response to what Milkman linked...natetodamax's dramatic exit.... Shoulda quoted it. Oh well! :) "" I dislike the whole, "I have x number of posts, x number of wiki points, and x number of followers, and id like to think thats pretty impressive" Endogene, is that you??? "You are really starting to wear on my nerves. Who said that and what relevance does this have to the discussion, other than to discredit the contrary position? "
Ohhh, I see. You are referring to an introspective blog that is only mildly related to the topic and has nothing to do with any tangible arguments in this thread.
" @LaszloKovacs said:Shepard" @Sweep said:I think it's pretty funny. When I wrote my blog I just wanted community content to get more exposure. I think you people are all fucking crazy. Yo... does anyone want to talk about Mass Effect 2? "" Holy fuck, I'm a fake-internet-celebrity. Who wants to touch me? Well... you shouldn't. I have STD's. ;) "Sup Sweep. I don't know if you noticed, but this thread is a madhouse. Why? I don't know! "
" @Cube said:Ohhh, I see. You are referring to an introspective blog that is only mildly related to the topic and has nothing to do with any tangible arguments in this thread. "" @Bellum said:
" @Cube said:It's not my fault you react to things. I was saying that in response to what Milkman linked...natetodamax's dramatic exit.... Shoulda quoted it. Oh well! :) "" I dislike the whole, "I have x number of posts, x number of wiki points, and x number of followers, and id like to think thats pretty impressive" Endogene, is that you??? "You are really starting to wear on my nerves. Who said that and what relevance does this have to the discussion, other than to discredit the contrary position? "
Why, yes. I do say! You have quite the eye for this sort of thing!
" can we get over this already no one wants this community crap anyways. "Then stop posting.
" @Sweep said:I had not actually seen photos of the male model Shepard inspiration. I wish that were still the case." @LaszloKovacs said:Shepard "" @Sweep said:I think it's pretty funny. When I wrote my blog I just wanted community content to get more exposure. I think you people are all fucking crazy. Yo... does anyone want to talk about Mass Effect 2? "" Holy fuck, I'm a fake-internet-celebrity. Who wants to touch me? Well... you shouldn't. I have STD's. ;) "Sup Sweep. I don't know if you noticed, but this thread is a madhouse. Why? I don't know! "
This post is getting more and more off-topic and more and more dumb by the second. I guess that's kind of my fault for posting the natetodamax thing. Nonetheless, as much as I am a fan of dumb stuff, I think this has just about run its course. In conclusion, community spotlight tab = good idea. Community section on the front page = questionable idea.
G'NIGHT FOLKS!
" @Br3adfan said:MY SHEPARD IS A HOT LADY AND SHE WOULD TAKE OFFENCE TO THIS WIKI." @Sweep said:I had not actually seen photos of the male model Shepard inspiration. I wish that were still the case. "" @LaszloKovacs said:Shepard "" @Sweep said:I think it's pretty funny. When I wrote my blog I just wanted community content to get more exposure. I think you people are all fucking crazy. Yo... does anyone want to talk about Mass Effect 2? "" Holy fuck, I'm a fake-internet-celebrity. Who wants to touch me? Well... you shouldn't. I have STD's. ;) "Sup Sweep. I don't know if you noticed, but this thread is a madhouse. Why? I don't know! "
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