It's Our Giant Bomb Too
Yeah this is what I mean Vinny, Jeff, Ryan or Brad are not just some guys. They know what they are doing, they've been doing this forever and plus we know them. They are almost TV show characters. I've been watching and reading stuff by jeff and ryan for like 10 years this is why I vastly prefer them to some forum poster." Frankly I don't care one one thousandth as much what Joe Giant Bomber has to say about a game as I do Vinny, Jeff, Ryan or Brad has to say. They are professionals trained in this field and we are at best enthusiasts. It would make the page ugly and less functional if user editorials got as much room as giant bomb staff content. I think there need to be changes to give more power to the community (more front facing forums, combine forums with almost no posts, better updating of what is going on in your favorite areas when), but this desire just speaks of hubris. "
As for negativity, I am a very positive person generally, I'm not naturally cynical, but then again, I don't know you and I don't care what you say to me.
I'm self-important in my own life, I don't assume I'm part of a community, and I certainly don't think I deserve recognition more than anyone. Hence, I'm not the problem I complain about.
So, that's all.
" @trophyhunter: Why are you so full of hate? What, you don't think people in the community are capable of producing quality content? Have you not, like, bothered to look at it? Have you heard of the Giant Bomb Wiki at all? Check it out some time, I hear it's pretty good. "yeah the wiki was great for like a month then everything got filled in and everyone stopped caring.
I only thing people care about now are joke concepts like "late titlecard"
I think that the community certainly should get a better spotlight, because of all the cool community oriented stuff this site has, but is rarely used or mentioned.
However, I disagree that we, the forum community, deserve as much prestige or space as the editorial content. Certainly there are people who come here just for the forums, but they are in a minority when compared to the people who come strictly for the editorial content. I have a friend who would never sign up for a forum ever, but he still looks at the reviews and some of the quick looks. I'm sure there are plenty of people like him who don't give a shit about us forum kids and our stupid discussions. Hell, sometimes I don't care, and I have almost 2,000 posts. Yes, I would say that we have a good, semi-reasonable community with plenty of talented individuals. But to say that we, a small minority of the site's overall traffic, deserve as much as the staff is a logical fallacy that I stringently oppose.
" Newsflash: Since some of you apparently haven't seen the homepage...Ever...I would direct you to take a quick glance at it. Notice the Community Content on there? Like, already? All I'm saying is if we're putting it there anyway, let's put the best of it in a spot where it will get a bit more attention. "what the user review at the bottom of the page? that's always been there since forever.
" As the creator of a nearly-year-old community podcast, even I don't really care about what each random member thinks. I am here for Jeff, Ryan, Vinny, Brad, and the occasional forum discussion, like the majority of users that post here. We don't constantly need to shove "great user content" in front of their faces, because if they wanted it, they would already be looking at the Community Thread.I've found that many of the core users from back in the day (a phrase that I use loosely, since it's group has barely existed for two years) are constantly trying to stay there. Yeah, it was kind of awesome, but it's not 2008 anymore and not everyone here wants to be in the video game industry as a life choice. "yes great point if we wanted community content we'd look for it.
" @TheHT: What? Who the fuck said anything about stopping people from expressing their opinions? "
@Jensonb
said:i understand, it was a long post. you're likely to forget things." So I'm saying here, right now: The belittling of our Community & its contributions has to stop. "
oh and i also don't want to see the featured user review moved from the bottom of the page to the promo bar at the top.
@Jensonb said:
Well, by being in 1 of the 3 slots, it would technically be replacing something staff made, if that's what you guys are referring to when you said editorial." @trophyhunter: Wrong, I don't recall saying anything about replacing Editorial. i said it should be up there with editorial. "
" @Jensonb said:No, I think you just misunderstood me. I said the belittling has to stop. I have no problem with people criticising or dissenting, it's the needless hating (EG, commenting simply to say you hate QOTW Answers without having watched them, stuff like that) and broad statements of worthlessness as an absolute I have a problem with." @TheHT: What? Who the fuck said anything about stopping people from expressing their opinions? "
@Jensonb said:i understand, it was a long post. you're likely to forget things. oh and i also don't want to see the featured user review moved from the bottom of the page to the promo bar at the top. "" So I'm saying here, right now: The belittling of our Community & its contributions has to stop. "
" Heh, reading the replies in threads of this subject are a lot like reading old PvP threads on the Alliance side in WoW back in the Classic days. Someone tries to rally the troops and half the replies are, "Meh, we're the Alliance, we suck, so why bother? I wish I was Horde."WIN.
For example, this sort of post:
@Cube said:" Honestly I am pretty tired of this crowd on Giant Bomb who act like they are community idols. Nobody gives a shit about you...sweet you guys talk in the IRC and make podcasts but the truth is that you're all so self-important and dramatic you guys come off as Jr. High kids. Example: AjayRaz. Seriously. WHO. GIVES. A. SHIT. You will NOT die because some Ayane loving kid lost their internet. And the whole SuperMooseman thing. OMG THE COVER UP HURF HURF DURRRR. Sure there are people I follow on this site. But there's only one person who even messages me and isn't totally douchey and internet-dramatic. Bleh. "If anyone's acting self-important it's you, by over-emphasizing your destructive personal opinion. It's great that you have one and I hope that negativity does well for you in life, but it doesn't exactly make the community any better. If you don't like a community and aren't willing to help it improve, get out and find another one. So many people with similar attitudes fail to realize that THEY are the problem that they so love to complain about.
Let me remind you of the hypocrisy of such a post as yours -- you sound like a jaded 15 year old sitting in the corner of the classroom, annoyed at the popular jocks, thinking they're completely superficial and none of their "friends" actually like them, while you with your one or two friends and your cynical outlook on life know the "real deal".
Also, a great example of a typical WoW player's response:
@trophyhunter said:"If the stuff in the community is soooo great. Go enjoy it because the rest of us don't give a shit. You just have to learn that no one cares that some guy wrote a great 5 star review for halo or a very well written thing about bioshock. Just learn no one cares what some forum poster has to say. As you can see I have alot of posts, I like talking about stuff on here but really I don't give a shit what really anyone has to say. "Apathy makes the world go round, doesn't it?
"I don't care if I just jacked all that loot that guild worked hard to get, it's just a game and I couldn't give a shit about these people." And yet these people have no problem letting everyone know their opinion. Seriously -- this is a fucked up attitude. If you're so apathetic, get out of conversations that supposedly mean nothing to you. Go do something that is more "worth" your precious time. Yeah I'm sitting pretty on my high horse at the moment, but whatever; screw you naysayers and apathetic opinion-belchers. Go buy a megaphone and tell the world your complaints... or could it be that no one would actually listen to you in reality so you come here because no one can tell you to shut the hell up? *ahems* That was a good read, Jensonb. I don't necessarily see it as dramatically as you do (though my attacks on the previous posters may say otherwise), and I'd be happy with Sweep's idea of a seperate page; I'm happy with the front page of the site, but yours is still a well-voiced post. "
" @TheHT said:in your opinion, community stuff is important, no? if someone else thinks they aren't and says so that would technically be belittling it no? you want people to stop belittling it so you want them to stop expressing their opinion if their opinion would in your mind belittle the community." @Jensonb said:No, I think you just misunderstood me. I said the belittling has to stop. I have no problem with people criticising or dissenting, it's the needless hating (EG, commenting simply to say you hate QOTW Answers without having watched them, stuff like that) and broad statements of worthlessness as an absolute I have a problem with. "" @TheHT: What? Who the fuck said anything about stopping people from expressing their opinions? "
@Jensonb said:i understand, it was a long post. you're likely to forget things. oh and i also don't want to see the featured user review moved from the bottom of the page to the promo bar at the top. "" So I'm saying here, right now: The belittling of our Community & its contributions has to stop. "
broad statements of worthlessness as an absolute? like, let's see, 'the community is worthless' right? that's certainly broad and when read and understood in isolation from, oh common sense, can certainly seem absolute. sounds like an opinion to me though.
if you've got a problem with that statement or others like it (which i understand that you strongly do), show how it isn't. don't just cry that they need to stop.
" As the creator of a nearly-year-old community podcast, even I don't really care about what each random member thinks. I am here for Jeff, Ryan, Vinny, Brad, and the occasional forum discussion, like the majority of users that post here. We don't need to constantly shove "great user content" in front of their faces, because if they wanted it, they would already be looking at the Community Thread. I've found that many of the core users from back in the day (a phrase that I use loosely, since it's group has barely existed for two years) are constantly trying to stay there. Yeah, it was kind of awesome, but it's not 2008 anymore and not everyone here wants to be in the video game industry as a life choice. "I don't see how anything proposed recently involves shoving everything about the community into people's faces. I still support Sweep's Bomb shelter idea as a way of making it easier to access community stuff because, you know, some people like community stuff. Because it's pretty good. The goal here is to give some recognition to the great people in this community who don't have the official titles people seem to love, but still make great content. And maybe when people see this content maybe they'll gain some appreciation for those people and want to make something good as well. Yes I've seen the people who say that they are only here for the guys in charge but this is a big website. There are over 50,000 users and I imagine at least some have interest in what the community does. I also imagine that its a big enough group, the group that likes the community as a whole and wants to contribute to it, to warrant at least a bit more recognition than they have now. We understand its a minority, but we do not live in a world where only the majority get a say in anything.
What did I say in my blog?" TL;TR So are you with us or against us? "
Here's an idea. My plan calls for the cream of the crop in terms of community stuff to appear on the homepage in the top banner. Many of you hate the idea. What if there was a switch to turn it off right there. One click and it was gone. Best of both worlds, surely?
Why are people against giving the community more exposure? The staff knows that a cohesive, engaged community is essential to creating a successful website so why do people want some of this great content hidden? People put a ton of work into guides, blogs, and user reviews so the best should be recognized.
Too many pessimistic Debbie Downers here. Also, too many Negative Nancies.
I dont think the community stuff should get equal billing to the editorial. The editorial guys are paid for their work and have been shown to provide consistent and reliable voice to things but if you start to put every community thing into that list, or even just the "worthy", then you pollute some of that reliability since one of the reasons I read the crew's reviews is because ive been reading them for a long time and I have a fair understand of their likes and dislikes to I can understand the reviews, or other content, and "translate" it into something which is useful for me (by which I mean if they state, their opinion on a game in X genre then I know they dont really have a lot of love for X genre but I do and know roughly how much more so I can understand how much the game will likely appeal to me). Having a seperate community page to promote the great forum posts/topics, wiki pages, guides, reviews or other wise is a great idea which I would never argue against but what i dont like is the idea of putting it in amongst "official" content. Perhaps if the crew take a pro-active role in the community and put up a, clearly marked, community review (or other content) into the main feed then thats cool but having all of it just milling about would make look at the main page less and I would stick to just the bombcast and quicklooks/video reviews/EnduranceRun-Style videos.
" Why are people against giving the community more exposure? The staff knows that a cohesive, engaged community is essential to creating a successful website so why do people want some of this great content hidden? People put a ton of work into guides, blogs, and user reviews so the best should be recognized. Too many pessimistic Debbie Downers here. Also, too many Negative Nancies. "A community is not essential to a website. Hits are. If GB eliminated the forums they'd still get hits because of their legitimacy and popularity.
Or they could pull an IGN and jump off the deepend posting luring stories that only piss people off.
technically belittling is making something out to be less than it is. if someone presents their opinion and a raw manner, as i imagine many have, some may minunderstand it as belittling, which you have a problem with." @TheHT: Belittling and dissent are not the same thing. Belittling is bullying - or trolling if you prefer. Here's an idea. My plan calls for the cream of the crop in terms of community stuff to appear on the homepage in the top banner. Many of you hate the idea. What if there was a switch to turn it off right there. One click and it was gone. Best of both worlds, surely? "
having an option to omit community promos from the promo bar is just silly.
" @Dalai said:If that was the case, Giant Bomb would've remained just another Wordpress blog with a good podcast. Trust me, Giant Bomb is a lot better off with an active community. The staff knows we play an important part in the growth of this website." Why are people against giving the community more exposure? The staff knows that a cohesive, engaged community is essential to creating a successful website so why do people want some of this great content hidden? People put a ton of work into guides, blogs, and user reviews so the best should be recognized. Too many pessimistic Debbie Downers here. Also, too many Negative Nancies. "A community is not essential to a website. Hits are. If GB eliminated the forums they'd still get hits because of their legitimacy and popularity. Or they could pull an IGN and jump off the deepend posting luring stories that only piss people off. "
For someone who has about as many posts as I do, I'm surprised that you feel we're not important. You give the 50,000+ members too little credit.
" @Dalai said:Again, we understand how important the editorial is. Nobody wants to turn this into an editorial versus community thing. The idea of a community tab is what we all want here. What we want is the editorial side of the site working with the community on this. In fact its the only way any of this can happen. Yes all the community stuff is superficial to the site but there are people, a fair amount of people, who enjoy it and want to see a bit more of it out there." Why are people against giving the community more exposure? The staff knows that a cohesive, engaged community is essential to creating a successful website so why do people want some of this great content hidden? People put a ton of work into guides, blogs, and user reviews so the best should be recognized. Too many pessimistic Debbie Downers here. Also, too many Negative Nancies. "A community is not essential to a website. Hits are. If GB eliminated the forums they'd still get hits because of their legitimacy and popularity. Or they could pull an IGN and jump off the deepend posting luring stories that only piss people off. "
I seem to be in the minority here, because after a few weeks since I joined GiantBomb, I got to know some great people here and that's what made me keep returning. Sure, the staff's content is interesting, but I could view any of that without even bothering to sign in. I come here to see what friends are up to. Unfortunately nowadays over half of the people I follow aren't around much anymore and I feel a lot of this has to due with the direction the website has taken, including the focus of progression, which seems to not be much concerned with issues that have plagued the site for a long time. (I have to say I agree with pretty much everything in Endogene's last blog, it seems really odd for a website to boast so much about it's wiki content and not fix a lot of the issues that are present).
I also believe the mods do an excellent job here, but feel that the amount of questionable users that roam on the forums here (who may have been only temporary banned) compared to some members who have been banned permanently who contributed significantly to the website's wiki database and were a great part of the community seems to show that there is somewhat of a disconnect with the moderation team. Where as previous offenses that would result in a permanent ban are now not enforced as much. Obviously I'm not a moderator and I don't know how exactly they reach their decisions, but it just seems like there is more leniency now with user actions compared to past decisions about the banning of users.
I'll just sum up my final stance before putting this topic to rest: A community tab is a fine idea. There ain't nothing wrong with a community section. But that stuff has no business on the front page. The front page is for the staff. Like others have said, staff > community always. Some of you may think you have as much pull as the staff but sadly, you don't. There is already enough community stuff on the front page anyway. You have all your followed blogs and friend's status updates right there. What's wrong with that?
Also, guys, it's just a video game website.
The editoral staff and the community are fine where they are. if you change things PEOPLE WILL DIE :(
" @Cube said:The 70,000 people who have registered on GB have yet to prove how we deserve to be on the front page. I do not care about post count. Just because I've been here since the beginning doesn't mean I think the community is deserving of a slot on the front page." @Dalai said:If that was the case, Giant Bomb would've remained just another Wordpress blog with a good podcast. Trust me, Giant Bomb is a lot better off with an active community. The staff knows we play an important part in the growth of this website. For someone who has about as many posts as I do, I'm surprised that you feel we're not important. You give the 50,000+ members too little credit. "" Why are people against giving the community more exposure? The staff knows that a cohesive, engaged community is essential to creating a successful website so why do people want some of this great content hidden? People put a ton of work into guides, blogs, and user reviews so the best should be recognized. Too many pessimistic Debbie Downers here. Also, too many Negative Nancies. "A community is not essential to a website. Hits are. If GB eliminated the forums they'd still get hits because of their legitimacy and popularity. Or they could pull an IGN and jump off the deepend posting luring stories that only piss people off. "
" @Jensonb: No. I think you can't quite come to terms with the fact that nobody cares about what a random person thinks. Nobody holds your or anyone else in this community's opinion on Topic X, Y, or Z as highly as the staff. "
Apparently some people do. Personally, I don't hold the staff in that high regard. They're fun guys and they are a business so they can afford (and have to experience required) to make quality videos, but I don't feel like they are any more knowledgeable about games in general than I or any other enthusiast is. I'm not likely to trust their reviews any more than anyone else's. If there is a way to say "hey, X number of people really like this review" or "hey lets feature this wiki page because it's got a quality that we should aspire to", that's great.
Then again, I don't actually ever go to the main page. If I want information, I go looking for it using the less-than-great search feature.
" @Cube: Read before posting because I don't think any of my stuff is as good as Editorial, it's average at best for community stuff. But you're wrong. You're assuming that just because YOU don't care about the community content, nobody does. I do, so that already proves you're wrong. Several others in this very discussion have made it clear that they do as well. I'm aware not everybody cares, and some of you hate the idea. That's why I suggested a simple switch which would turn off Community promos on the homepage, relegating Community promos to just Sweep's proposed "Bomb Shelter" tab - which I support and to which my idea is merely an addition. "I am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff. Not joe schmoe. Sure, maybe the ability for someone to express themselves on forums and reviews and blogs can be a selling point but there is no way an average person who views this website REALLY cares about some guy in the communities opinion. They want to know what GIANT BOMB thinks as a website, not what "user" from GB thinks about _____.
When it comes down to the website as a business, this is absolutely correct. You think IGN would let some poster who is well respected in the community write an article and put it up on the front page? No. Just because GB isn't as big, or as corporately minded as someone like IGN doesn't entitle anything to anyone in the community anything, either.
am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous.
" @Snipzor said:Nobody here is acting in a pretentious manner, the idea was simply proposed. Yet, you feel the need to continuously post nothing but negative things instead of carrying out an actual discussion. If you really didn't care about the community aspect of the site so much, then why spend so much time commenting on this thread?" I feel quite terrible that I don't participate within the community enough. Can someone explain to me why people like Cube are being such dicks about this? "Because I'm not pretentious and believe that the community deserves front page recognition? "
" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous.Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
" @Cube said:It's just something to do, a good time waster. After I log out, I am about my day as nothing ever happened. I don't feel like the community is such a big part of my life. Nor do I think it's deserving of the same prestige the staff get." @Snipzor said:Nobody here is acting in a pretentious manner, the idea was simply proposed. Yet, you feel the need to continuously post nothing but negative things instead of carrying out an actual discussion. If you really didn't care about the community aspect of the site so much, then why spend so much time commenting on this thread? "" I feel quite terrible that I don't participate within the community enough. Can someone explain to me why people like Cube are being such dicks about this? "Because I'm not pretentious and believe that the community deserves front page recognition? "
Like, someone from the pro-community side and the anti-community side would just throw down. Have you guys seen "You Got Served"? It'd be like that. All multi-ethnic and hip-hoppy. And I'm sure we'd all learn a valuable lesson about the true meaning of friendship.
" @Bellum said:" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
Praise Jeff, the holy Gerstmann!
This has nothing to do with "prestige" or "worthiness". This has to do with building a good community site.
" @Bellum said:But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison." @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
" @Cube said:Because they do not have the same weight in recognition for quality journalism and a reputable history to back them up. If you put them on the same plane as the GB staff, it's like saying they are representative of the website itself. If that were the case, there would be no reason to have people like Jeff, Ryan, Brad, and Vinny in the first place. You have to separate the community from the business." @Bellum said:But why is it ridiculous? Don't employ common sense understanding please, it is generally bullshit. Please tell us why the community does not deserve the same recognition as the staff if the quality is at least equal in comparison. "" @Cube:It won't scare them away. Absolutely not. But to say that the community deserves the same prestige as the staff's work is utter fucking ridiculous. "Presumably, anyone who really knows who the staff is and cares about their opinion are already in the audience. Or perhaps there are still some trickling in, but whatever. Solid community support is not going to scare away new users; that's ridiculous. "am speaking for myself but at the same time you have to think of the website as a business. What's the selling point of Giant Bomb? The staff.
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