Noob Saibot Syndrome: Is It A Valid Concept?

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jakob187

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#1  Edited By jakob187

I've got this idea of a concept, but I need the Giant Bomb community to help decide and/or figure out if it is truly a valid concept. 
 
It's called "Noob Saibot Syndrome".  While it didn't start with Noob Saibot, it was popularized greatly by him. 
 
The basis of the concept is that a boss character can be easily beaten by a "glitch" in its coding, or even by using one simplistic move.  The character Noob Saibot has been famously known as one of the easiest bosses in history, as all you have to do is spam high punches at him to win.  He does not know how to defend them, and he continually just runs into them. 
 
These instances still exist in games today.  For instance: 

  • Street Fighter IV - Seth can easily be beaten (at least on lower difficulties) by spamming Fierce Kicks (aka High Kicks), as they are in a dead range spot for him.
  • The Secret Armory of General Knoxx - General Knoxx himself can easily be beaten with a sniper rifle by simply moving to the other side of a set of crates with a tall iron pillar next to it, then shoot him in the head through the open space.  This prevents his lightning attacks to not hit you, but he will also just stand there for a while until moving to your side...in which you just move yourself to the other side and repeat the process.
 
Basically, I'm wondering if people can come up with other instances where this "syndrome" occurs.  Mind you, I'm not looking for "glitches" like with Crawmerax in General Knoxx.  I'm looking for specific instances where a boss is incredibly easy to beat by simply using one move over and over. 
 
Is this a valid concept?  If we can list enough instances of it, would that help validate it more?  Can we consider things of this nature to truly be "glitches", or is it merely a flaw in the coding that causes one specific move to be the most effective way to do it?  We're not talking about boss patterns, but merely "I can use this one move over and over, and it will win...nothing else". 
 
Mods?  Community?  Let's get in on this. 
 
*EDIT*  Also, any of you suckers that have Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 for XBLA and have NOT unlocked the achievement for beating Noob Saibot make me sad.  Come on!!!  This is as common knowledge as the Contra Code!!!
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ButtonsMcBoomBoom

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#2  Edited By ButtonsMcBoomBoom

I believe this is called bad AI

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Seems like a valid concept, but the name may need to be changed, I had no idea what you were talking about until I read the post.  (Yes, I do know who Noob Saibot is, just not that you could do that.)

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#4  Edited By jakob187
@ButtonsMcBoomBoom: It's not bad AI though.  It's one single flaw in the AI.  Take on Noob Saibot, and you'll find that anything other than punch spams results in nothing but counters to your moves.  The same goes for Seth.  If you take on General Knoxx any other way, you'll find yourself getting downed on a regular basis. 
 
Other bosses in the past have this same syndrome, yet they've got perfectly fine AI if you don't spam that one particular move.  Bosses in DoA, Tekken, hell...even MOTARO have these small flaws. 
 
The thing is that they aren't glitches, and they COULD be called exploits...but it would seem that this is less of an exploit and more of an instance specifically with bosses.
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#5  Edited By shirogane

How bout Noob Bot? Cause it's a bot(AI) and it's a noob? 
 
There are some bosses where you can just, stand in a particular spot and shoot at them. Quite a lot of these actually. Not remembering a game specifically, but 3rd person shooters/FPS games. 
 
Also vaguely remember some star wars games where you just spam the force.
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#6  Edited By natetodamax

That could possibly be a concept (with a different name though. Naming a concept after a character that a lot of people probably haven't heard of before seems silly). 

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#7  Edited By TheGreatGuero

How is it that I've been a diehard MK fan since the original and I never knew of this Noob Saibot tactic? Well, this is an interesting concept to say the least, but I think a better name for it would need to be used. Maybe something like Easily Exploited Bosses or something like that.

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#8  Edited By FunExplosions

How about... "Just Try and Hit me... No! Not There!" I think that name would work. I like the concept, though.
 
Or wait, how about just what TheGreatGuero said. But shorter, so it fits nicer. Like, "Exploitable Boss."

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#9  Edited By JJOR64
@TheGreatGuero said:
"Maybe something like Easily Exploited Bosses or something like that. "
That's a good name or something similar should work.
 
This is a very interesting concept and I think we could go along with it.  Devil May Cry 2 comes to mind.  You can just use the pistols and win all the boss fights.  Sure it takes a while and it's not fun, but it works.  Rock Steady (spelling?) from the NES TMNT game also comes to mind.  When you are Donatello, you can just stand on top of the box and hit down when he does his ramming attack towards you.
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#10  Edited By jakob187
@natetodamax: How have people never heard of Noob Saibot?  Are folks on these forums really so young that they don't know one of the more infamous characters from Mortal Kombat?!  lol 
 
@TheGreatGuero: Easily Exploited Bosses seems alright as well.  I mean, exploit by its very definition is to advance through something by means of exploitation.  This would seem like an exploit of these characters rather than a glitch to me. 
 
I'd love to hear a mod or staff member's opinion on this though.  No, this is not an attempt to get an achievement - I already have that one.  I feel this is a serious necessity for our Wiki, but I'm not that much of a Wiki contributor (and obviously, I'm trying to change that)...so I don't really know how valid this is.  Is it too broad of an idea?  Is it too narrow of an idea?
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#11  Edited By natetodamax
@jakob187: Uh............ me >_>
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#12  Edited By beargirl1
@natetodamax said:
" @jakob187: Uh............ me >_> "
you've never heard of Noob Saibot? o-O  
 
son i am disappoint. have you ever played MK? D: 
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#13  Edited By LordAndrew

I've heard of Noob Saibot, and I don't know anything.

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#14  Edited By jakob187
@natetodamax said:
" @jakob187: Uh............ me >_> "
Sir, go to your room, get some MS Points, and download Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.  Then...follow the instructions I have on that achievement!!!
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@jakob187: Noob Saibot's probably the most obscure of the Mortal Kombat ninjas. Rain and Ermac are close seconds, I guess, but it's not ridiculous that a gamer doesn't know who Noob Saibot is. 
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#16  Edited By natetodamax
@AjayRaz: @jakob187: I dislike fighting games!
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#17  Edited By beargirl1
@jakob187 said:
" @natetodamax said:
" @jakob187: Uh............ me >_> "
Sir, go to your room, get some MS Points, and download Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.  Then...follow the instructions I have on that achievement!!! "
UMK3 was removed from XBLA though! :( 
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#18  Edited By jakob187
@AjayRaz said:

" @jakob187 said:

" @natetodamax said:
" @jakob187: Uh............ me >_> "
Sir, go to your room, get some MS Points, and download Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.  Then...follow the instructions I have on that achievement!!! "
UMK3 was removed from XBLA though! :(  "
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  GODDAMN MIDWAY GOING UNDER!!!  MOTHERFUCKER!!! 
 
This makes me sad...but at the same time, it makes me happy that I have it...and that I have the achievement.  = D 
 
@natetodamax said:

" @AjayRaz:  @jakob187: I dislike fighting games! "

I don't even know you anymore, nate!!! 
 
@Sir_Ragnarok said:
" @jakob187: Noob Saibot's probably the most obscure of the Mortal Kombat ninjas. Rain and Ermac are close seconds, I guess, but it's not ridiculous that a gamer doesn't know who Noob Saibot is.  "
Oh no, sir.  Tremor is obscure.  Noob Saibot is famous!  lol
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#19  Edited By beargirl1
@jakob187: you lucky bastard! it's one of the only games i wanted off XBLA and now it's gone :\ 
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#20  Edited By The_A_Drain

I had no idea it was removed o_o 
 
WTF. I don't even like this game and i'm fucking furious. You can't just remove shit like this. Can people still play/re-download their copies? 
 
Anyway, as for the concept itself i'd have to say no. It's a glitch, it belongs in the same category as falling through the floor, or game crashes. If the developers had put it there on purpose then perhaps, some kind of "secret easy kill" concept or something like that would be necessary. But it's a simple glitch, I don't think it needs to be a concept.

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#21  Edited By sixghost
@jakob187 said:
" @ButtonsMcBoomBoom: It's not bad AI though.  It's one single flaw in the AI.  Take on Noob Saibot, and you'll find that anything other than punch spams results in nothing but counters to your moves.  The same goes for Seth.  If you take on General Knoxx any other way, you'll find yourself getting downed on a regular basis.  Other bosses in the past have this same syndrome, yet they've got perfectly fine AI if you don't spam that one particular move.  Bosses in DoA, Tekken, hell...even MOTARO have these small flaws.  The thing is that they aren't glitches, and they COULD be called exploits...but it would seem that this is less of an exploit and more of an instance specifically with bosses. "
Dude, you need to tell me how to beat Motaro. I've beaten him like 3 times in my entire life.
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@jakob187:  "@natetodamax: How have people never heard of Noob Saibot?  Are folks on these forums really so young that they don't know one of the more infamous characters from Mortal Kombat?!  lol"
 
I get the feeling you think you're Mortal Kombat 'leet'.
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I'm not sure that's considered a glitch, I think that's just considered cheese.  Exploiting a flaw in the game mechanics or the enemy AI in order to drastically increase your efficacy is something I would consider as cheese.

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#24  Edited By The_A_Drain
@Brodehouse said:

" I'm not sure that's considered a glitch, I think that's just considered cheese.  Exploiting a flaw in the game mechanics or the enemy AI in order to drastically increase your efficacy is something I would consider as cheese. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese   
Hmmmmm. 
 
It's a programming bug/glitch plain and simple.  
 
I know what you are saying though, but, no, cheese would be having access to an easy way to beat him that he could not deal with within his normal operating parameters (such as an air fireball, or the ability to fly, which no matter the quality of his AI, would give you significant advantage) 
 
With Noob Saibot it's a bug in (i'm guessing? not a fact) his animation code which doesn't properly put him back to his normal stance and allows you to repeatedly punch him, in a manner that you are not supposed to be able to do. What is happening when this bug occurs is not within his normal operating parameters, it's a bug. 
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#25  Edited By kmdrkul

Was never aware it had a name.  I just always called it "shoddy game mechanics" or "buggy messes."  
 
For the record though, Noob Saibot was badass.  Ermac was too.

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#26  Edited By Origina1Penguin
@kmdrkul: I was more of a Sektor and Cyrax fan, personally. 
 
@jakob187 said: 

" If you take on General Knoxx any other way, you'll find yourself getting downed on a regular basis."


All I did was shoot him in the face with a caustic revolver and use an assassin class mod, occasionally strafing to avoid his lightning attack. Hell, his backup mechs were more of a pain than he was. 
 
I don't think it's a valid concept. It's just an exploit. I would be more convinced if a flaw in the game code proved a specific attack (high punch) would have no reaction. I beat most of MK3 with low kicks and jump kicks.