What are your opinions on ActiVision and Oliver North? (criminal)

So, I dont want to start a big poop fight... but I am curious as to what Gaming community's opinion is on Oliver North being cut checks by Activision for helping on Black Ops 2.

Does the gaming community care?

Does the gaming community even know who he is and what he has done?

Some will argue that paying him is like hiring Makarov (MW2) if he was a real character and paying him to help desgn the No Russian level, asking him what he felt when he shot civilians.

Brief about Oliver North for those that are not aware:

1) Oversaw drug trafficking directly into the United States

2) Directly funded a foreign terrorist group

3) Violated the Boland Agreement in direct violation of law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_Amendment )

4) Directly responsible for deaths of millions

5) Lied to congress

6) Admittedly destroyed evidence related to his previously listed crimes...

The only reason he is not in jail is because he was given immunity so that he testifies in hopes of him outing the bigger fish (presumably President Raegan) but he never did....

So anyways... what is an average gamer's opinion on this? Do we care?

For me... Ive seen the guy on TV, Military channel and all that... never really knew what he did until Vinny made a big deal out of it on the Bombcast... I am in my late 20's... most people that do know what he did say that if you are under 30 you most likely wont know who he is or what he did.... I do think that its messed up that he is not in jail or wasnt executed though military tribunal. I will most likely still play Black Ops 2, but I am going to make the best effort of going out of the way to not give Activision money... (i.e. used games sale).

Sorry to bring in a serious note like this... but I am curious what everyone else thinks? From what I saw, there was basically no reaction at all from the gaming scene to this...

I wasnt going to be buying it anyway. but I had no clue.

Match made in heaven.  But not like good heaven.  Evil heaven.  Whatever you'd call that.

I know who Oliver North is and don't give a shit that he was consulted for a game called, "Black Ops;" as far as I am aware, that man essentially defines the term. Having him consult on the game can only do good in my eyes.

Does the gaming community even know who he is and what he has done? Yep

Does the gaming community care? Nope, it makes no difference. He is asked to be an advisor/consultant. He's gives them input on how things work (worked) in the military for the era he was involved in it which they will undoubtedly use for inspiration as well as getting certain things fairly accurate.

It makes no difference what he did in the past. It has nothing to do with consulting on a game.

Oh you meant Oliver North the (criminal)? I thought you meant Oliver North the (pornstar). Good thing you clarified.

@CornBREDX said:

Does the gaming community even know who he is and what he has done? Yep

Does the gaming community care? Nope, it makes no difference. He is asked to be an advisor/consultant. He's gives them input on how things work (worked) in the military for the era he was involved in it which they will undoubtedly use for inspiration as well as getting certain things fairly accurate.

It makes no difference what he did in the past. It has nothing to do with consulting on a game.

Well... doesnt it matter that he continues to make money off his crimes? I think thats the bigger issue here...

This is how I learned about Oliver North.

Yeah I know of him. he's is a filthy scumbag treasonous waste of human life. I don't doubt for a second that the filth flowed from higher powers than Oli. Selling weapons to terrorists and murders to pay the contras to kill yet more people to promote USA economic and political interests in that area (nicaragua).

Fuck him, fuck the reagan administration, and fuck BLOPS2.

They're consulting with Oliver North because he is from the future.

@roc_553 said:

This is how I learned about Oliver North.

I love this

oh wow, i was not aware of this. thats kinda messed up.

@CornBREDX said:

Does the gaming community even know who he is and what he has done? Yep

Does the gaming community care? Nope, it makes no difference. He is asked to be an advisor/consultant. He's gives them input on how things work (worked) in the military for the era he was involved in it which they will undoubtedly use for inspiration as well as getting certain things fairly accurate.

It makes no difference what he did in the past. It has nothing to do with consulting on a game.

How about if they'd consulted with Osama bin Laden? They were both basically in the same business; funding terrorism through shady deals. Only difference was one guy was targeting a country slightly further to the north on that continent.

I think there's a lot about what happened with Oliver North that we don't know. I think in terms of the arrangement between he and Activision well there are few people who would be as good of an adviser about the 80s era military and politics then that man. In that sense, I have no problem at all with it.

If Oliver North consulted, for free, with an author to write a non-fiction book, I'd say "sounds good."

Oliver North being consulted for a game with walking robots, and Oliver North being paraded around marketing to sell a video game that would already have sold incredibly well? Fuck that. It was a moronic idea to consult him.

Sure it's a game "based" on real life events, but it's still a fictional game. If they had made some shit up, no one would have called them out for being inaccurate. They paid him primarily to use him in their marketing and get people talking. Very irresponsible in my opinion.

Pretty much this

I was born in 1986 so I really don't care about North but when I brought him up to my dad he was like oh he did some shit back in the 80s and I really still don't care. But apparently he's a war criminal?

You guys are being way too dramatic. I did all of those things before I was ten.
 
Grow up.

@N7 said:

You guys are being way too dramatic. I did all of those things before I was ten. Grow up.

This is the forum thread talking about if a war criminal should be in the advertising for blops 2.Either you had a real messed up childhood or you got the wrong thread.

@CornBREDX said:

Does the gaming community even know who he is and what he has done? Yep

Does the gaming community care? Nope, it makes no difference. He is asked to be an advisor/consultant. He's gives them input on how things work (worked) in the military for the era he was involved in it which they will undoubtedly use for inspiration as well as getting certain things fairly accurate.

It makes no difference what he did in the past. It has nothing to do with consulting on a game.

@N7 said:

You guys are being way too dramatic. I did all of those things before I was ten. Grow up.

RIGHT?

@moffattron9000: I'm not the most conservative Marine Poolee by a long shut, pretty liberal in fact, but yuck. That guy bothers the hell out of me. Their video games guys, and just because some guy is an asshole doesn't mean he's a shitty person to ask abou tthese things. in fact, he might even be a good person to ask about the realities of military operations. I wouldn't ask his advice on who to vote for, and I think he's pretty paranoid about China, but still. Him being a war criminal doesn't make him a bad person to use as a source considering how ridiculously corrupt the military could get between the 40;s and 80's.

@Duxa said:

...there was basically no reaction at all from the gaming scene to this...

Also, Jeff Mattas said that he wouldn't be buying blops2 because of the Oliver North thing. He mentioned it in the last 2 episodes of Weekend Confirmed: http://www.shacknews.com/tag/weekend-confirmed and there's been some discussion there about it.

I'm 20 and I'd never heard of him before this whole CoD debacle. Feel slightly ashamed. People are always talking about not forgetting history, lest it repeats. It seems I (or our history classes) failed the first part.

And now that I know, yes, it's pretty messed up. No matter how long time has passed, that dude is the epitome of radioactive.

I'm curious as to why you would choose an asshole like him when there are others who should something about the 1980's military.

It's like asking a convicted rapist about the many intricacies of lovemaking.

@Vinny_Says said:

It's like asking a convicted rapist about the many intricacies of lovemaking.

I think it is closer to asking a hooker about the many intricacies of sex.

Eh, the whole things sounds like the US government tried to wash their own hands by pointing fingers at him. He offered the President a solution to the problem in Panama, and when shit hit the fan and the arms deal went public. Reagen went after him.

Anyway, all charges against him were dropped in 1991 by Judge Gerhard Gesell - so according to the law he is an innocent man.

Eh, the whole things sounds like the US government tried to wash their own hands by pointing fingers at him. He offered the President a solution to the problem in Panama, and when shit hit the fan and the arms deal went public. Reagen went after him.

Anyway, all charges against him were dropped in 1991 by Judge Gerhard Gesell - so according to the law he is an innocent man.

Directly responsible for the killings of millions? Wow, are you just fucking dumb or something? He isn't Hitler. He was the fall-guy for the Iran-Contra scandal. You clearly know nothing about the circumstance involved in this case. If he was a criminal, I'm pretty sure he'd still be in prison for his crimes because those are some serious offences.

There have been many dirty things the CIA has done in the past that we still don't even know about today. We do know that they've overthrown democratically elected governments, sold weapons to almost every shady group or corrupt government that wasn't absolutely supported by the Soviets, extensively tortured suspected "terrorists" many for simply being Muslim, and if recent history is anything to go by have almost zero accountability for their actions even with big scandals such as this.

@MonetaryDread said:

@Vinny_Says said:

It's like asking a convicted rapist about the many intricacies of lovemaking.

I think it is closer to asking a hooker about the many intricacies of sex.

Only in the sense that you're asking a hooker so people will think you're all edgy for asking a hooker.

It's a fucking video game, they always make a big deal about getting people in to 'advise' them on shit but it rarely translates to anything relevant in the game, so the only reason they'd get Oliver North is as a publicity thing. Right? I mean, it seems to have backfired because most of the audience doesn't know or care who he is, and the media doesn't give a fuck because you can't say generals are ruining our children.

Unless, of course, some of the 1980's missions are based on legit historical events, and North is using the game to go public about certain events that he has not before now. Which would actually be kind of interesting? But that'd never happen so... whatevs.

would call oliver north a criminal, he is a scapegoat for others policies.

would call oliver north a criminal, he is a scapegoat for others policies.

Most CoD fans are 10-15 years old anyway so they'll have no clue who he is even if they do catch wind of him having something to do with the game.

And if they are told he is a criminal they'll probably think that makes him cooler.

@LooseChange said:

I was born in 1986 so I really don't care about North but when I brought him up to my dad he was like oh he did some shit back in the 80s and I really still don't care. But apparently he's a war criminal?

Way to fight the stereotype. kids these days. /oldman

@deathstriker666 said:

Directly responsible for the killings of millions? Wow, are you just fucking dumb or something? He isn't Hitler. He was the fall-guy for the Iran-Contra scandal. You clearly know nothing about the circumstance involved in this case. If he was a criminal, I'm pretty sure he'd still be in prison for his crimes because those are some serious offences.

Nice! way to be insulting...

And if you knew anything about the circumstances involved in this case you would know that he was tried and convicted, and the only reason he is not rotting in prison or execution list is because of a small technicality. They gave him immunity when he confessed to his crimes. Next time think before you press that "submit" button, as to not make a fool of yourself. We'll look past your silliness this time :)

According to you the following are not criminals of any kind and are upstanding citizens because none of them have been tried or convicted in court:

Hitler,

Stalin,

Mao Tse - Tung

Lenin

Kony (Kony 2012)

Tito

Slobodan Milosevic (trial never finished)

Imar al-Bashir

and the list can go on and on.... the first 2 are responsible for deaths of over 70 million people, the rest just as many (combined).... those all lived within the last 100 years, and between them they wiped out the equivalent of 2/3 of (modern) United States population. Yet none of them were ever tried... so clearly we should pay them millions of dollars to help us make games about conflicts they were involved in... who else? They would know best what if felt like to slaughter millions.

Innocent until proven guilty huh? Think next time you post kid.

As far as Oliver North is concerned, he supplied weapons to the enemy of the United States, weapons that killed US backed forces, and millions of innocent people. Selling weapons to an enemy is the definition of treason. There is no doubt about what he did and there is no doubt about the fact that he committed treason (among other things). Sure, there were other cases like this, but most of them at the time of being aided (Taliban for example) were not the enemy of the United States. Its like when in WW2 US supplied Soviets with military Aid.... that was not treason. but if you did the same thing 2 decades later, it would have been... because it was Cold War. So just because Taliban became the enemy later doesnt mean it was treason to help them when they were not the enemy....

anyways.. my point is that even if similar things happened in the past, the people that have done these things have gotten punished, or are living out rest of their lives in shame under a rock. The difference here is that Activision is paying him money... a lot of money... further rewarding his treason. Its like paying Osama Bin Laden for his invaluable input on how they planned and executed September 11th.... its just wrong. You dont pay the enemy millions of dollars, and treason makes you an enemy.

I seriously doubt he is responsible for half that shit. Way more likely the CIA made him the fall guy so they wouldn't have egg on their face when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

@Demoskinos said:

I seriously doubt he is responsible for half that shit. Way more likely the CIA made him the fall guy so they wouldn't have egg on their face when they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

This guy has it right. Oliver North was following orders from George Bush (CIA Boss at the time) and Ronald Reagan (The President at the time). Sure, what he committed was a crime, but you don't say no when people like that give orders.

As far as consulting goes, that is what Oliver North does now. He writes books, has a nationally syndicated radio show, he appears constantly on TV programs (The Daily Show, MSNBC, Fox News) and has been doing it for well over a decade now.

All I remember of Oliver North was that it was crazy boring to see him on TV all the time. My dad watched the trial and I was a kid, so I was bored to tears.

@MonetaryDread: Whoa really? Bush Sr. was in the CIA?

Not to mention that pos gets paid by fox news.

I don't really care. Sorry!

To me he's a part of the not so secret underworld of world politics. We've seen movies and games dedicated to dudes like him in the past and we also know dudes like him still operate under orders for the greater good.

I'm down with it so long as they include Regan in the game.

Match made in heaven.  But not like good heaven.  Evil heaven.  Whatever you'd call that.

More to the point, is this guy eligible for the Northies?

@Jimbo said:

More to the point, is this guy eligible for the Northies?

No, because he's not in the game.

All is fair in love & war

I think it's kind of irrelevant what North did and why he's not in jail.

I think the problem begins and ends with using criminals to "help make" and sell games. Where is the purpose in that? One can say it's realism but everyone knows that COD has been getting less and less realistic from version to version.

What this is about is sensationalism. Solaciousness. They want to keep portraying the slick, polished, cartoonish version fo war that has made them millionaires.

It honestly probably never crossed hteir minds that North did things that had REAL consequences because in their world, war is just a game. Nothing more.

@Demoskinos said:

@MonetaryDread: Whoa really? Bush Sr. was in the CIA?

He was mostly a figurehead for morale, and if I remember correctly he wasn't there for too long either.

@Duxa: Exactly. They aren't criminals because the rule of law doesn't apply to them. What's a crime? They were the ones that decided that. As you have stated, Oliver North was convicted (3 out of 16 charges, all 3 were minor offences). But all convictions were vacated, not due to a technicality, but to simply a poorly conducted trial. Same goes for Poindexter. Even worse Weinberger never even got a trial, he was pardoned of all charges by Bush Snr. Justice isn't equal.

How did I even imply they were all upstanding citizens? That's the complete opposite of what I, and most people view them as. Oliver North's crimes looks like something a little child would compared to them. To understand the severity of the Iran-Contra affair, you have to understand the circumstances of Cold-War era politics and what other numerous dirty things the US did even before that. It all seems pretty typical to me.