Worth Reading: 12/02/2014

The 25 Reasons video shoulda been called 25 people mention one reason. They can reword it all they want but it was just women get harassed in gaming for being women.

I get harassed because of my Accent, We all get harassed on the internet. It is the internet so what's new.

@jack_lafayette said:

Actually, I'm not. I'm noting how they're a bunch of inherently privileged middle class, mostly white guys, living in San Francisco.

It's probably only going to become more common, rather than empowering women to speak for women we end up with a bunch of men dictating victim-hood.

Is that what Ryan O'Donnell looks like now? Wow! Good for him!

This was quite an entertaining and worthwhile read I would reccomend you, dear Giantbomb reader: https://feelsandreals.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/25-visible-benefits-of-gaming-while-female/

First two points, sure, I see where you're coming everything.

Everything after that? Complete garbage. I would question what fantasy world the author of this article lives in because it's very different than mine. The idea that is made over and over again that women have more influence in the games industry than men is laughably stupid and completely divorced from reality. On top of that, this picture she paints of this bastion of online interaction where men are falling over themselves to be nice to women and help them along is also ridiculously stupid.

@LunarJetman: Speaking as a woman, none of these are really benefits. In fact, some of them are huge problems. Free stuff for being a woman? Nope, everything has a cost, whether those guys now expect you to be their online "boyfriend" or ask you for nude pictures or worse. Woman welcomed with open arms to a raid? Well, maybe some but many are also called out just for their gender, blamed for the team losing or pestered for other reasons. Examples of that can be found listed here at @womanindota or you can peruse /r/girlgamers for both positive and negative stories, including a 400+ post where they talk about the original 25 Things video.

I won't go through every point, since it would take me a long time and a lot of dwelling on things that I don't like to dwell on in my past online experiences. Suffice it to say, this may very well be this person's experience, but it is a tiny slice, heavily leaning towards a specific conclusion, and should be viewed as a collection of anecdotes, not as truth for all, or even most, women in games. Considering my small collection of anecdotes contradict most everything written in that article, I honestly can't even come to a middle ground with the author when reading it.

It's always interesting to see how each person's little world works, isn't it?

Well, from my experience in online games it actually seems relatively common to see people fall over themselves to be nice to any female player that shows up. Might just be my luck though. And I've certainly seen examples of some of the other points made. I guess people's experience differ quite a bit and claiming any one of them as representative is silly.

Are you me?! Because we share identical relationships with our party members and roll around with the same party.

Vivienne is, as described by one of your other party members, "a bitch, and she knows it." Not sure where all the love comes from. Yeah, she's a strong female character, but so is Cassandra, and she's not a total asshole. It's not that I have a problem with strong female leads, I just have a problem with shitty people, and I feel like Vivienne is a hateful, annoying, rude person. Her gender and race doesn't matter, I would hate anyone who acts the way she does.

Yeah. Clearly the best way to fight ignorance is with ignorance. What a dumb fuckin' thing for her to say.

Goddamn, is it really so hard for people to just not say incendiary things and not be assholes? Doesn't matter who you're being an asshole to, just don't do it!

@collywolly: feel free to see yourself out at any time.

@jadegl: Thanks for sharing your experience. there's a real problem with an "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist" mentality to these sorts of things.

@collywolly: won't quote it incase you want to clear that post later, ya have to understand no matter how emotional ya get or how much you think it validates your argument, it's just not appropriate to bring Ryan into it.

Women don't have a lot of influence when it comes to game publishers, because they will cater to the people who they perceive as buying their games. They have some influence over developers, mostly indie developers, who might pull something if enough people claim something is sexist. And they definitely do have an influence within the gaming press. When you lump it into the games industry as a whole, I agree with your point, but there are facets in the games industry where they do have a lot of influence.

I have seen men fall over themselve to be nice to what they think might be a women - sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. I've only really seen it done in MMOs, since I don't play FPS online. It does come off as patronizing sometimes. I'm sure there are times where there are ulterior motives too. I've seen women refuse assistance, and sometimes be called a bitch for doing so, but I've also seen women take advantage of the situation.

Some folks just like people who act high and mighty I guess. As for you and me though? I guess we'll just roll with people who at least pretend to get along!

Thanks for posting that Game Grumps video, Patrick. Wouldn't have checked it out if it weren't to see why you would post a mid-playthrough video. Good (bad) stuff.

Comparing average games salaries and the costs of living in/around San Francisco casts doubts on your premise. Also, "mostly white" is a weird distinction. I'd say the video is probably more representative of minority voices than the industry itself.

@facenugz: You found an anecdotal counter-example. However, the plural of anecdote isn't data. If it was, we should ignore statistics and percentages because there are exceptions. It sounds pretty foolish to say "global warming isn't happening because its freezing cold today!" There are grey areas in every analysis and, when it comes to privilege in particular, having a privileged position in society does not guarantee success or happiness. It just makes the path easier.

@facenugz: Well I tried to treat your comment like you were actually trying to have a conversation, but it looks like I was right to think your were just posting to start shit. I didn't argue that that particular homeless person enjoys a privileged position in society. I argued that the existence of a white homeless person does not invalidate the concept of white privilege. Just like the existence of a record cold day in winter doesn't invalidate the concept of global warming. If you actually tried to parse what I wrote, you might have noticed that, but I think you're just here to pick fights. I doubt your 5 day old account with 2 posts exists for any purpose other than to start flame wars though, so enjoy your internet mud flinging! I'm out!

In response to the 25 reasons video: It's shitty to blame all male gamers for a phenomenon perpetrated by people who are just assholes. The people that perpetrate this harassment are shit heads in real life too, it's just "not our problem" there. Personally, I'm going to keep not being a dick to people just because that's the right thing to do.

What I prefer from my gaming sites is coverage of video games, not the culture. That culture is a bloated mass of man children lorded over by the "cultural leaders" in charge of these game web sites who are often man children themselves. I don't need to be taught how to act by Patrick, Adam, and Arthur. These people make money playing video games for a living and we're supposed to take our behavioral queues from them? No thanks. Don't even get me started about how I can't get more then ten minutes into some giant bomb content without alcohol showing up or someone telling story about how wasted they were. These people are not role models. Stop listening to them. Find your own reason to be a better person and you'll thank yourself for it. Thanks for your time.