Yogscast's Kickstarter-funded game cancelled ($570k raised)

Reading the original Kickstarter page and the list of features sounds super ambitious, even for 500K. It almost reminds me of the pizza tycoon who pitched his MMO. Not to mention this was the developer's first title. To me it seems that the project was a unrealistic idea from the start and merely got funded by the existing fan base. It's a bummer all round.

Huh, giving people free money didn't work out. I didn't see that coming.

In light of the project's failure, the tone of the Kickstarter pitch video is quite unfortunate:

I kind of don't get how such a niche thing like the Yogscast could become so huge. Granted, I've not followed them for quite some time, but I remember them as basically two dudes roleplaying in Minecraft. And now they're one of the biggest gaming channels on youtube.

The "we don't have any obligation yet we still do this" mentality is kind of interesting. Probably because they know there would be a huge backlash if they didn't. Which wouldn't be an issue if people didn't treat kickstarter as a store but as charity.

Situation is shitty for backers, it was doomed to fail from the beginning and Yogscast is handling this terribly with poor wording and awful PR, but let's settle something - the 5 dudes who paid 10 grand to eat lunch with some youtube fools deserve to not have that money on them.

I remember laughing when I heard about this thing in the first place. This went exactly how I expected it to.

It was only a matter of time before a Kickstarter that raised this much fell so flat on its face. On the one hand, I feel bad for the guys biting off far more than they could chew, but on the other, people really need to learn about the risks of crowdfunding.

As much as this looks like a total complete mess and they they totally screwed up, it always cracks me up when people say they should get a refund. Where exactly is this refund money supposed to come from? The whole point of the kickstarter in the first place was to raise money. What are they going to do, start a second kickstarter to raise money to refund the first one?

Ah yes! Another reminder to pray for Project Phoenix and its development process.

All these Kickstarter stories got me shook. Never again!

Yikers

Pretty much what I predicted what would happen when they announced this, what, 2-3 years ago? Just because one man made Minecraft, doesn't mean a small team can make an open world creation game on a 500k budget. I cringe every time someone says "Let's make a game!" when it's clear they have no idea how much time, money, and manpower goes into making one. You start small, like mobile or indie game scope. Doesn't matter if you're the most popular youtube network in the UK, you don't jump into a project with that scope with nothing but hopes, ambitions, and a six figure budget.

You have an absurd definition of "contract". IANAL but a "promise" is not enforceable nor a contract nor even a Terms of Service and you've confused them all together. There is no contact between Kickstart Inc and Winterkewl Games. Any assets, tangible or otherwise, and work product created by Winterkewl can not be taken by anyone let alone Kickstarter. Any money used by Winterkewl in operation is gone and can not be recovered. Kickstarter has TOS which Winterkewl has agreed too but that is for system services.

Kickstarter is not an escrow system or trust fund because they would have to have far more legal and fiduciary regulation and obligation. They are just an electronic system that matches projects with donors. Backers are donating money to projects which is great but people keep forgetting that when one donates they shouldn't expect anything in return.

oh wow, that is unfortunate. If I were them I would be pulling that video down, that might require more self-awareness then they possess though. Ordinary people trying to handle a disaster wouldn't have made an "apology" post that had the phrase "we're under no obligation to do anything." I hope people remember this when the next fad youtube group strolls into kickstarter wanting half a million dollars. I bet the next ironic youtube gaming group aiming to make a minecraft game will seem kooky too, but guard your wallets from these pseudo-celebrities.

I'm not the least bit surprised by this. Day One I knew this was either fishy or naive of them to be developing a game in the first place. Thankfully I never donated to their kickstarter.

Ugh that letter from Yogscast was super needlessly disrepectful. Funny how one little phrase can poison a reputation.

I feel like the Kickstarter/crowd funding gravy train has about run its' course. Figure it's only a matter of time before the SEC steps in and drops the hammer on these guys which may end up ruining their business model. Investors/Donators are not adequately protected.

Does anyone have a article on how the Yogscast were involved in the project cause i can't find any. I know the developer has the likeness and "Yogs" name but it will be interesting to see, and we may never, what roles they played besides a marketing push the developer wanted that never happened on the Main Yogscast channel.

It will almost be interesting to see the financial side of this. I know there was a comment made by the yogscast saying the developer never got that 570k, besides taxes and that take kickstart has, I want to see who much they got and where it went.

As a backer its to bad it never happen but that's the roulette of kickstarting something :P

From the devs o_O:

If you promise the world and don't take into account the amount of time and resources you really need to make good on those promises you find yourself in a position where you can't move forward without more funds but you can't generate more funds without moving forward.

@trillian: Despite the fact that they made it sound like they were making the game themselves on the Kickstarter page (then immediately said "it was the devs they fucked up bad devs don't look at us" when the project was cancelled), it sounds like they weren't responsible for much other than asking for way too many features for a game from a 6-man team. Also from the devs:

I agreed to every feature request we got because I didn't want to lose the opportunity. I wanted so badly to make this project a reality I ignored the real-world risks...

A lesson to us all to be careful with crowdfunding.

Also this:

Whoever didn't take one look at the Yogventures kickstarter and say to themselves "This is probably not going to get made." probably could do for a painful life lesson or three.

Oh, geez. Feature creep is the bane of software development.

Then let's see some transparency to ensure that the money was spent. If a project of this size fails, I want financial records, otherwise they're just thieves. And judging by the "we're under no obligation ..." comment, they're asshole thieves on top of that.

Accountability, or the lack thereof, is the single greatest problem with Kickstarter. Seriously, when was the last time anyone got an update on projects like Hero U or SpaceVenture?

I have never even heard of this group or game/kickstarter before. Interesting to see how this will play out.

This whole episode makes me curious where this ranks among large-scale Kickstarter failures. (Where failure means couldn't finish/didn't ship.)

I normally don't mind those guys but that " We are under no obligation" quote comes off as super gross.

I haven't Kickstarted anything in a while, though that has more to do with my personal finances, but you should always be approaching your Kickstarters by the professionalism of the pitch rather than how COOL IT WOULD BE IF THIS GOT MADE BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HAVE A CLOTH MAP AND THE MOUNT GIVES YOU 35% FASTER RUN.

Oh wow this was part of the second wave of the Kickstarter boom a few years back wasn't it? Back when it seemed like every game pitched was guaranteed to be funded.

Sad to see that the developer's and backer's naivety got the best of them in the end.

Who knew game development was expensive? They know that now and sadly ruined the game developers life too in the process. And to add to it, started their Yogdiscovery program where they get a portion of sales from games they cover on their Youtube channel. Yes, lets take more money from away from developers.

Or from our fellow Danny O'Dwyer

Their whole Kickstarter looked extremely sketchy from the start. Kickstart wisely people.

I fear for the future of my potato salad.

So they don't owe any money back? They can just say "nevermind" after they get their money? This is why I don't kickstart anything. Even a big name like Yogscast can still screw people.

Doesn't surprise me, but this is a good opportunity to remind people to look at the potential risks before backing any given kickstarter project. There's a reason why I've mostly backed stuff from established companies: they have proven they can put out a game.

Hahaha!

The fact the so may people have such poor impulse control and a minimal grasp on economic concepts continues to astound me.

@chaser324: Part of it had a lot to do with them biting off more than they can chew. It was an overly ambitious game and from the looks of things as you pointed out the team that was assembled weren't competent enough and even worse it was poorly planned and budgeted.

Yeah, KS has no obligation so it sucks big time that they can't (or won't) help the people who are affected by a situation like this BUT those affected can ask for some form of compensation or refund directly from Yogscast since they really are obligated to do just that if the project fails.

Speaking of the Yogscast being dicks.

(source: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1142007)

I like Yogscast, even though I've really only followed Simon and Lewis, and periodically Hannah and Sips. I'm not surprised, though. Between this and Dashcon, I've realized no amount of money and good intentions will make up for inexperience in an area. I'm only giving my money to Kickstarters where the people responsible for the game, web series, cartoon, whatever, have both the license to use the characters for the project (see: most Indiegogo campaigns where they try to throw money at a cancelled show to revive it, and it does nothing) and the experience to prove that they can use that money wisely. Otherwise, it'll probably go badly.

I totally forgot this existed and I'll probably completely forget this happened by tomorrow morning.

I don't remember thinking this would ever happen, though. I figured the yogscast would be irrelevant by the time any news of it came out. Are they still popular?

@virtualpolecat said:

Speaking of the Yogscast being dicks.

(source: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1142007)

Didn't he backpedal on those claims?

Incidents like this are why I'll never even contemplate touching a project on Kickstarter. It's kind of sad that brazen incompetency is so well protected on that website, outside of legal action. It just seems like for every genuine company of talented people making a great game, there's another who lacks any respect for their backers or the project at hand.

Yeah , this seems that this is not going to end well.

This thing was doomed from the start, and you didn't need to scrutinize their original page for too long to determine that:

• "an open world sandbox game designed first and foremost as a multiplayer experience" = massive project
• "This will be Winterkewl Games’s first title" = totally untested team
• The pitch video on the Kickstarter page is just the Yogscast playing a pre-alpha: great to lure fans in, not so great if you were hoping to learn anything about the developers, a breakdown of how the funds would be used, or any future direction outside of a few pieces of concept art.

I've backed a hell of a lot of Kickstarter projects (with a 100% success rate, thankfully), and while I enjoy what the Yogscast does, I stayed the hell away when I first heard of this. Too many red flags.

Kickstarter is a fine thing as long as you understand the risks involved and spend your money wisely. $20 investment on a project with a clear direction, people with a proven track record, or a complete functioning product that just needs money for polishing or mass production? You'll probably be ok. That same twenty dollars on a game with little to no plan, people, or record attached to it outside of a few Youtubers who aren't in any way involved with the actual coding of the game? That's a crap shoot, but at least your sunk cost is low.

And $10k towards that same project? Well, I won't tell people how to spend their money, but you won't catch me doing that. :/

EDIT: I also feel for the lead developer, who really just seemed like a guy who got in way over his head, and really wanted to do right by those who funded the game.

I was with them before they even did Minecraft, way back when they did World of Warcraft videos. I don't want to be one of 'those' people, but they were significantly better back then. Hell, even their earlier Minecraft videos were pretty great. It's just so unfortunately (for us at any rate) that they picked Minecraft when that game was becoming huge, so now they have a fanbase that constantly demands god damn Minecraft videos. If you watch their older stuff, it's just amazing to see the difference from today. Simon back then wasn't shoehorned into being the idiot of the duo, and was actually more knowledgeable than Lewis about a lot of the games they played, and they were so much more laid back. Now all of their stuff is scripted, and it's just not fun to watch anymore.

@virtualpolecat said:

Speaking of the Yogscast being dicks.

(source: http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1142007)

I'm pretty sure everything Notch said there was stuff he "heard" from other people, none of it he could confirm. I remember that shitstorm when it happened way back when, and it's what made me lose almost all respect for Notch. He went public with this (as he does with most things he really ought to keep to himself), but was peculiarly silent when it came to any sort of resolution... I guess Notch isn't so loudmouthed when he realizes he's in the wrong.

Edit: Yeah, about that email, Lewis REALLY should have went through a few more revisions when he wrote it. I would have been SO much more apologetic, and pushed the compensation angle more without making it seem like I don't have to do it. Really, if they have any sense, then they have to know that they HAVE to compensate their fans somehow to regain respect, and to make sure people continue to trust them.

Here's a good link to a developer's blog from two years ago that predicted not only how this specific game would fail, but also details the time and effort it would take to hammer out the exact promises in the Kickstarter pitch.

GOOD CONTENT.

From the devs:

After the Yogscast have made an official announcement regarding their future plans for the game we will put out a detailed spreadsheet showing where all the funds from the Kickstarter were spent as well as the amounts that I personally invested once those funds ran out.

It's sad to see the dev in the comment's section acting so positively. I wonder when it was that they realized that they were fucked. I can't how horrible it must have felt.

@random45: I imagine it was probably not long after the Kickstarter ended that they realized the project scope nightmare they had created for themselves. Putting something like "open world sandbox" or "dynamic loot system" or "deep character customization" on a bulleted list is easy, but you don't have to spend much time on the development side to realize that those things are a huge undertaking that takes a lot of time to build.