Today, could a completely inexperienced army compromised of civilians take the greatest superpower in the world?
Back then, the Americans had the advantage of knowing their own land and have all the will in the world, but with today's military technology, could it be possible?
What do you think?
Could something like the American Revolution be possible today?
No, it would never make it past organization anymore. Information travels too fast. You have to remember it took a boat trip across the ocean and back to communicate to the authorities during the time of the American Revolution.
Is it physicly possible for the rebels to win? I think it would be possible, though the casualties would likely be pretty high on the rebels side.
Will it happen? No. Because us westerners have it to damn good. The system works at least well enough that people would rather keep it than put in all of the effort of overthrowing it and building a new system that will probably wind up being as good as or (more probably) worse than the currently existing one.
" @babblinmule said:That may be, but you're missing the point of this thread. In said conflict, we would be as inexperienced and ragtag as the forefathers were during the American Revolution. Try and wrap your mind around how well that would turn out in today's world." @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
" No, it would never make it past organization anymore. Information travels too fast. You have to remember it took a boat trip across the ocean and back to communicate to the authorities during the time of the American Revolution. "This is true. But only on earth. If the moon is one day colonized... I don't know, I'm just saying.
" @KaosAngel said:That's impossible. >.> No one is stronger than America, how can an American picture that? The only revolution would be commies and China killing people and we save the citizen of those countries." @babblinmule said:That may be, but you're missing the point of this thread. In said conflict, we would be as inexperienced and ragtag as the forefathers were during the American Revolution. Try and wrap your mind around how well that would turn out in today's world. "" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
You mean like the rebels in Afghanistan and Iraq? They seem to be holding their own. Plus some of the founding fathers were vets of the french and indian wars. I;m sure if things got ugly there would be a few vets willing to help any revolutionaries." @KaosAngel said:
" @babblinmule said:That may be, but you're missing the point of this thread. In said conflict, we would be as inexperienced and ragtag as the forefathers were during the American Revolution. Try and wrap your mind around how well that would turn out in today's world. "" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
Is this "AMERICA FUCK YEAH" attitude of yours just some joke that I am unaware of, or are you seriously in that mind frame?
" @GreggD said:I think thats a bit of an over-simplification of the situation...You mean like the rebels in Afghanistan and Iraq? They seem to be holding their own. Plus some of the founding fathers were vets of the french and indian wars. I;m sure if things got ugly there would be a few vets willing to help any revolutionaries. "" @KaosAngel said:
" @babblinmule said:That may be, but you're missing the point of this thread. In said conflict, we would be as inexperienced and ragtag as the forefathers were during the American Revolution. Try and wrap your mind around how well that would turn out in today's world. "" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
" @GreggD said:They're dying in far greater numbers than us, and no side has won those wars. Yet. Also:" @KaosAngel said:You mean like the rebels in Afghanistan and Iraq? They seem to be hold their own. Plus some of the founding fathers were vets of the french and indian wars. I;m sure if things got ugly there would be a few vets willing to help any revolutionaries. "" @babblinmule said:That may be, but you're missing the point of this thread. In said conflict, we would be as inexperienced and ragtag as the forefathers were during the American Revolution. Try and wrap your mind around how well that would turn out in today's world. "" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
@KaosAngel: OH, I get it. You're not a headstrong patriot, you're a sarcastic fuckwad.
Both of your options are wrong. The fact that the state has more power at its hands isn't why a rebellion such as the American Revolution would be highly unlikely, but rather the fact that we are become weak, coddled babies compared to our ancestors.
The fact of the matter is that conventional weaponry can do a damn fine job against an organized and well funded government force thanks to guerrilla tactics (see: Iraq), and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying through their teeth to put their view on this issue in line with their view on the 2nd Amendment. The only question is whether we would have the guts to do it, and to be honest, I doubt we would.
" @KaosAngel: Seems to me your military buddies seem to be 'shooting' more of the people than 'saving' them. And have you ever considered that 'commie' countries may just have a different view point and don't need saving? Oh well, you're beyond thinking for yourself so this is kind of futile. "Few things piss me off more than seeing people like you talk down about the troops. Only bad things make the news. If your post is futile, then you're fucking stupid for posting it.
" @mazik765 said:this" @KaosAngel: Seems to me your military buddies seem to be 'shooting' more of the people than 'saving' them. And have you ever considered that 'commie' countries may just have a different view point and don't need saving? Oh well, you're beyond thinking for yourself so this is kind of futile. "Few things piss me off more than seeing people like you talk down about the troops. Only bad things make the news. If your post is futile, then you're fucking stupid for posting it. "
You know what? I bet if people didn't take all this stuff so seriously there would be alot less wars.
" if a US rebellion could get their hands on weapons (which they probably can do) than yea but i don't think there will be any rebellions soon, rebellions happened when the soviet union and communism was spreading fast, but lately i havn't heard of any uprisings "That being when the government was actually, you know, killing people and stuff.
" If the military still supported the government, it wouldn't be very likely. How would we get rid of the tanks? "Ask the Iraqi militias.
I have a great deal of respect for men and women and serve in the military. I live in Canada and have a close friend who serves in the military and I did not mean to call into doubt the risks they go through. I apologize for the nature of my comment, it was not meant to talk down the troops or anything.
We werent as inexperienced or as ragtag as you might think we were in the revolutionary war. Most of our founding fathers were wealthy buissness men, not to mention the millions of dollars and weapons we received from France and Spain. Then you have to take into account that the majority of the solders and officers in the contenental army were veterans of the French and Indian war and other smaller conflicts which gave them experience with the terrain and tactics needed to fight in such terrain. Most british officers and solders were used to european style terrain and tactics witch were useless against the Native American style tactics employed by the Americans (cowpens is a good example of this). The only thing the contenental army lacked was manpower, so to make up for this congress recruited an ungodly amount of militia to fill in the ranks which led to the "ragtag" look of the army.
taking all that into account, the united states should have won more battles than they actually did, i think they would have too if they had a stronger navy in support.
Hmm, if it was on a large enough scale, then it's quite possible that an extended rural guerrilla war could reach a stalemate with those in cities. But pretty much anything on a large enough scale would win. Also, it seems the 'bring in the tanks' mentality is fairly prevalent here. In reality armour is very ineffective outside conventional warfare, and there are ways of breaching most modern armour with homemade explosives or weaponry.
Don't be so shortsighted. Nah, revolution on American soil won't occur anytime in the foreseeable future. But all empires come to an end. And when they do, there's always some group of people quick to jump into that vacuum. If humans live for another thousand years, I'd be shocked if the political landscape of the world resembles what it does today.
"Psst: You're aware that France won the American Revolution, yes? "Sorry, but that's giving the French way too much credit. They only joined in the fighting after it was apparent that by doing so, they'd seal the victory for the Americans.
I hope so!
2012 baby!!
the-revolution-a-manifesto-ron-paul.jpg
ANNNNNND nobody in america cares. usa won the war end of story. lol" @mikeeegeee: Not at all. We would have had no chance without the French Navy. Sure, they knew they would win when they entered, but that is beside the point. We knew the same when we entered WWII. The reasons for entry aren't relevant. What is relevant is that we could not have won without the aid of France. It was their naval power that won the war. Without it, the British could have walloped us by blocking resource deployment. "
Read 1776. We could barely get ammunition or shoes to the soldiers, and Washington thought most of the guys under his command were bums because they were more interested in farming than fighting." We werent as inexperienced or as ragtag as you might think we were in the revolutionary war. Most of our founding fathers were wealthy buissness men, not to mention the millions of dollars and weapons we received from France and Spain. Then you have to take into account that the majority of the solders and officers in the contenental army were veterans of the French and Indian war and other smaller conflicts which gave them experience with the terrain and tactics needed to fight in such terrain. Most british officers and solders were used to european style terrain and tactics witch were useless against the Native American style tactics employed by the Americans (cowpens is a good example of this). The only thing the contenental army lacked was manpower, so to make up for this congress recruited an ungodly amount of militia to fill in the ranks which led to the "ragtag" look of the army. taking all that into account, the united states should have won more battles than they actually did, i think they would have too if they had a stronger navy in support. "
@LiquidS
That's a strange way of looking at it. "Selfish" and "likely to capitulate to oppressive government control" seem like opposites. Europe is as a whole already far more oppressive to the rights of its citizens than is the U.S., so if anything they would be more likely to suffer a totalitarian state once again.Think the general population in North America are to lazy & selfish to really do anything if the correct political circumstances gave reason for a revolution.
Maybe in Europe but then again the public doesn't have the firearms we North Americans have access to.
" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "me to, he is a fuking asshole (no offense KaosAngel, just still super pissed 'bout your "Happy Hiroshima Day" blog
" @TwoOneFive: Well, America does love it's chest-thumping, delusional nationalism as well as it's ignorance of history. "I wonder if there will come a day when it's not fashionable to bash America.
" @babblinmule said:" @KaosAngel: I die a little inside whenever i see you post in one of these threads.... "I love my country, and I plan on serving it well with the FBI offer I got in the summer. I'm sorry you take America for granted. "
you didnt really kick ass in ww2 i mean you helped but it was russia that did most of the work you got in late waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy late into ww2
" Today, could a completely inexperienced army compromised of civilians take the greatest superpower in the world? Back then, the Americans had the advantage of knowing their own land and have all the will in the world, but with today's military technology, could it be possible? What do you think? "I am speaking from my view here in America about America - I think this distinction is important because perhaps in other countries this could be possible...
Maybe this has been discussed already in the other responses (sorry I didn't read through the thread, just responding to the OP) but I think for more reasons than just military this won't happen. I just don't think that people have the same sort of will that the people of that time did. I think most people have grown complacent and would not ever do anything except entertain such an idea as a political "fantasy." Really, how often do you meet anyone that is so angry, fed up and ready for governmental change that they would rise against it. I mean, how many of these sort of people do you actually know in real life? I have no doubts such peoplea re out there... but I am certain that their numbers are few and (maybe this is the complacent part of me speaking) I doubt their reasons could be considered justified by most (not that the quantity of people who believe something is directly correlated with what is truly 'just').
I just don't see the fiery spirit that I would expect someone to have if they were truly going to attempt such a feat. I don't know why people don't give me this sense - I know for me it is because no matter how bad I think things are, I can always remind myself that there is at least 1 person out there who likely has things worse than me or lives in a worse off country than I do - I know this is a foolish thought in some peoples' eyes (and I don't think of this as some sort of 'elitist' viewpoint, that is not what I intend to convey by any means) but to me it works and keeps me 'checked and balanced' so to speak.
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