Let's talk basketball!

Last night after the game, I did a search for updates and one from a couple hours ago said "Kyrie Irving looks good to go for the Finals." And that made me cringe, knowing what just happened. Bummer for him, but at least it's four months and he should be back for the preseason. For a young dude, though, he's been nicked up quite a bit despite never playing an extended season til now.

I'm rooting very hard against the Cavs, but you never want something like this to be the reason they lose. But if Lebron wills them to a victory, it would be an insane accomplishment for his legacy.

Really sucks when your best guard is injured in the playoffs, isn't it? Damn shame this is how the Cavs run may end.

The Santanas killing it.

As a Bulls fan, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

@dochaus:

Time to unleash the MOZ GOV! Pick and roll, all day everyday.

I gave up on this game with 3 to go in the 4th. Then I saw the box score slowly changing.

Heck of a comeback.

Lebron is getting mugged by Iguodala and Draymond.

Who needs Irving when you got Della-the funky fella-Dova!

I'm not a Cavs fan; I'm not a James fan. I actually wanted the Warriors to win. The refs have been terrible in this game, almost screwing the Cavs out of the win.

Curry stunk up this game. But I'm going to blame it all on the wide open missed slam dunk by Speights.

Almost didn't notice the end of the play, where Dirty Della plays the player instead of the ball in trying to draw the foul.

There was at least 2-3 plays where Lebron got fouled and no call was made. Curry goes up for a three, barely gets touched and gets the benefit of the doubt. I think I accidently deleted my earlier post but Lebron is having the Shaq dilemma. If it was any other player those hacks would probably be legitimate fouls, but because of Lebron's ability to follow through with the contact the refs don't call the foul because it isn't perceived as a foul.

Yes Curry was terrible today.

While watching the last part of the game it kinda makes you wonder where the Cavs would be if the Cavs didn't have JR Smith and Iman Shumpert right now. Take those 2 players away along with Love and Kyrie being out and you don't really have much talent on that team left. Imagine Dion Waiters taking those 3 point shots in overtime... *shudders*

The Shaq dilemma? Oh, you mean never getting called for offensive fouls. (I kid; but not really.)

@sergio:

@sergio: Same here, I wanted the Warriors to win. Those back to back no calls with Lebron...holy crap. The Cavs deserve the win.

@joey2683: One of them could have been called travelling on James before the foul; he totally changed his pivot foot. The refs should have called either one - preferably the one that happened first.

if they didn't get any one of Shumpert/Mozgov/Smith I don't think they'd be playing in the finals right now. EIther Chicago or ATL would have taken them down.

I wouldn't be comfortable if I were the cavs. The warriors played like complete garbage and almost won the damn game. I could see this as the kick in the butt GS needs, I think they win the next 3

@nightriff: I think that is what is making such a great win. The Cavs if they had anyone not named LeBron James would be easily swept.

Before the series started I thought it was a sweep but said the only way the Cavs win any is if James gets 45/15/10 every night. Pretty close tonight but they won. Unless the warriors fold I don't think the Cavs have a real shot. In 06 heat needed the refs the to beat the Mavs but from the looks of tonight the refs will definitely not side with Cavs.

Already has been more entertaining than the entirety of the conference championship games though. :p

Lebron James is in movies now? Man... I was hoping I'd have to watch him be ridiculous for another 5 years and then slowly fade into obscurity.

Whatever happens in this series here on out, I'm completely convinced now that Lebron James is the greatest player to ever play the game now.

Definitely better than Jordan.

LeBron was amazing and the Cavs defense was good enough that you have to say they may have a chance. Some of their role players didn't really hit shots either. Some shots fall and the defense holds up and maybe we have a series?

You think one of the at minimum 5 greatest basketball players of all time will fade into obscurity after he retires? Huh.

Of course they aren't comfortable. But you're selling the Cavs defense way short. It was outstanding.

@slag: I have him two still, if he wins this lopsided contests even if it's because steph disappears I would have him one. But it is Jordan on top in my book..... For now....

Nope.

To be honest Lebron probably will keep dominating this series but what intrigues me the most is that Cavs haven't really played great yet they easily could be up 2 zip. As much as people are hyping the Warriors they are beatable and if the Cavs play better than yesterday(a game that shouldn't have gone to OT, thanks to JR Smith and I believe they shot 35%) they can handle the Warriors.

In many ways this series might just turn out to be way more entertaining than initially thought.

That kinda brings up the Mt. Rushmore of the NBA debate that was brought up earlier in the year by Lebron. I'm gonna bring it up again so we can discuss this topic here since there isn't a real consistent 4. If Lebron does lead Cavs to the championship this year what would your top 4 ever in the NBA look like and why? Here's my list in no particular order.

Bill Russell (11x champion, 5x MVP, 12x All-Star) - He was the general, the leader of the Celts that made the team go. He could of put up Wilt type scoring numbers but understood that him playling lights out defense and rebounding put his team in a better position to win. He is seen as the de facto best player in the NBA cause he won the most championships and could literally do it all.

Michael Jordan (6x champion, 5x MVP, 14x All-Star) - Jordan is the GOAT. Lebron James is great but Jordan is better. When Lebron missed a couple of free throws at the end of overtime in last nights game, in my head all I could think of was that there was no way Jordan would of missed those shots. It might be Jordan's PR excellency but in my mind growing up I remember Jordan never missing and always being clutch. Along with the excellency of the people around Jordan I didn't know he was such an asshat until I was 20.

Tim Duncan (5x champion, 2x MVP, 15x All-Star) - Tim Duncan like Bill Russell is that guy who keeps the Spurs together. It's pretty insane how both the Spurs and Duncan have kept their level of success consistent throughout the years. The last time the Spurs have missed the NBA playoffs was 1996-97, some full fledged adults have never seen the Spurs suck in a season. Tim Duncan last year at the age of 39 averaged 13.9 points and 9.1 rebounds a game at center.

Magic Johnson (5x champion, 3x MVP, 12x All-Star) - The last spot was a toss up between Magic and Bird. I chose Magic due to his longevity compared to Bird who started breaking down as he entered his late 20's / early 30's. One of these guys had to make it cause of what they did for the NBA itself. Before these two hopped to the pro's the NBA had a PR nightmare of coke, booze and NBA players who have never heard of an assist. These guys brought back the fun of team basketball while also setting up the greatest rivalry of all-time between the Celts and Lakers. There was also the race and class factor that played into the rivalry as well, but this all brought up for great basketball and ratings for the NBA. Magic himself was a 6'9 wizard who played with the silkiness of Slick Watts himself. Tons of people talk about what a revolution Lebron is, but Magic was the first. Magic's defining moment on the court was probably the 1982 NBA finals against the 76ers, where he started at center for an injured Kareem and helped the Lakers win the game and series with a triple double.

I am already convinced that LeBron James is the greatest player in NBA history. There are/will be players with greater careers - like Bill Russell, Jordan, Duncan - but as a basketball player, there is no one better than LeBron. He can do everything on the court both offensively and defensively. His unparalleled combination of size, speed and athleticism allows him to do things nobody else can do (not even Jordan).

Aside of my personal basketball greatness, what stand LeBron apart from Jordan is his uncanny ability to make every player around him exceed their capabilities that they would have had on any other teams. You are seeing perhaps the best case of this going on right now in these playoffs. He is taking misfit castaways (Shumpert, JR Smith, Mozgov), less talented-but-scrappy players (Dellavedova) and untapped potential (Thompson) through the playoffs into a contested NBA Finals without much consistent help, if any at all, from the team's 2nd and 3rd best players.

This team is way ahead of schedule (which is scary for the rest of the NBA), and it is all thanks to LeBron. Nobody is the history of the NBA has done was LeBron is doing in these playoffs, dragging this team to what could be a championship.

Travelling is never called in the situation for any player, so that point is mute. One the last drive in regulation, Iguodala both wrapped up LeBron's arm and committed a reach-in foul.

My top four is Michael, Russell, Magic and Kareem. I say Kareem because he was a Finals MVP 20 years apart. He was most likely an alien because he was so consistent for so long with little to no drop off in production.

Actually it is. This isn't a situation of taking the extra steps that all players do. I don't expect that call to be made. Once he was under the basket, he shuffled and changed pivot feet before going up. That has been called on James in the past. So not mute, but given your previous comment in the thread, I feel there is bias in not wanting that called on him.

When he went for the shot in this case, he was fouled. I don't argue that point. The refs missed both the travel and the foul. Some people might claim the two cancel out, but it's still terrible officiating. One of the two should have been called.

The refereeing was atrocious in this game - I don't mind when refs have a clear and consistent way in calling a game (a lot of the Bulls v Cavs games were allowed to be physical - refs consistent in not making calls) but some of the stuff ups in the most recent Cavs v Warriors game were really bad.

I simply can't understand LeBron haters - I'm a Bulls fan and I'm Aussie, so really in this situation I'm happy to see both Delly and Bogut do well - but there is no denying simply how good at basketball LeBron James is. Yes his shooting percentage was down the other night but he doesn't really have too many other legitimate options in terms of scoring with his current Cavs team. The numbers he has put up in the Finals (and really, all year again except for the slow start) have been phenomenal.

I'd try and claim every foul too (as every single player in the NBA pretty much does anyway).

Also, I'm a Bulls fan simply because of the Jordan era (which is what made Basketball really popular over here in the 90s anyway - I love playing Basketball now but no-one watches our national comp) and I'm undecided on who is better - Jordan or LeBron. I think Jordan has a lot of the nostalgia factor going for him and, in a weird way, when he did things on the court he looked a lot more elegant about it. LeBron a lot of times looks like he's brute forcing things - he's not necessarily - it's taking a lot of skill - but it doesn't look as 'nice'. The only thing is though - look at who LeBron has had with him (both when he was at the Cavs the first time and now - Love did nothing this year and Irving has been down + injured) and LeBron has just dragged teams with him. In terms of 'Most Value', he's hard to argue against.

@captain_insano: When comparing Lebron to other GOAT players Lebron started his NBA career when the NBA felt obligated to start protecting their players more. While Lebron has had no worries about getting closelined driving to the lane, players like Jordan or even Iverson in the 80's and 90's drove the lane with reckless abandonment with the possibility of getting closelined or body checked by the big fellas. This isn't Lebron's fault that he's playing in a ticky-tack era of basketball but the countless images of Lebron crying or getting carried off the court cause of cramps gives the notion that Lebron is one soft fella.

Now Lebron is considered the best player in the NBA today, has the label of King, and has been close to winning a ring with little to no talent in Cleveland before 2010. Then all of a sudden you sign with Miami to team up with Bosh and Wade on Wade's Miami team? Let's not get this twisted when Lebron signed with Miami that team was Dwayne Wade's team through and through. Now can you imagine Jordan doing the same and signing with the 76ers to team up with Barkley or sign with the Pistons to play with Isaiah? Hell freakin no, that's what made Jordan so great he was the ALPHA dog and wanted the world to know it, Lebron James ia an alpha dog who prefers to hide the fact we all know he is an alpha dog.

This is where alot of the hate probably comes from for Lebron, is the perceived notion that he never won a championship on his own. He had to join another team and sign with other players to win it instead of getting them to join him with the Cavs. You could say that he resigned with Cleveland to right his own wrong, but at that point last offseason he was perceived as teaming up with maybe the best young pg in the league in Kyrie and teaming up with a group of younger talent int Waiters, Thompson, Wiggins and Bennett. Miami on the other hand was in the regrouping phase as we all now see, with both Bosh and Wade probably already reaching their past their prime parts of their careers.

Lebron is undoubtedly a phenomenal player and still has a lot of career left. I can't put him up there on the top 4 because he still has 6-8 years left to play. If he somehow wins more than 6 championships I would move him up there on the top 4, because at the end of the day besides your stats it also matters how many rings you won.

It seems like people think haters hate on Lebron because we think he's overrated or something. But a lot of his hate comes from being dominant for so long and knocking out your favorite teams.

I respect Lebron and appreciate his skill. But since he's knocked out the Bulls 5 times, I'm just tired of meeting him in the playoffs.

Top 10 player for sure, best in the world right now. But that doesn't mean I need to be a fan. Just like Jordan's haters could respect his skill and greatness, but didn't have to root for him.

@csl316: I agree with this, you NEVER have to be a fan of something that is 'the best'. Of course saying that someone is better then them is obviously not true but there is so much more to like about a basketball player who is not the best. It could be his strive to greatness and just seeing him get a basket so you can cheer for the guy. It's not fun cheering for a guy that can get baskets over and over and over again.

There's a difference between wanting to beat someone and how far some people go against LeBron though. Not saying you necessarily are at all csl316 or even anyone really in this forum but do some looking around and it's easy to see and so over the top. Just people acting like he's some awful guy, wishing injury, finding a way to hate on him at every opportunity. Like he misses a layup at the end or he didn't shoot the best percentage and he's a bum, choker, bailed out by Delladova (after he puts up 39 16 10 or whatever exactly it was).

Also the "he can't do it" and not clutch narratives for years which fly in the face entirely of basketball history when every great has needed great players aside him to win a title. And also LeBron statistically actually being clutch. The best player he played with before Miami is...? Who? Mo Williams? Not that that would stop those people.

As a fan of basketball, you watch and don't appreciate LeBron I feel bad for you. That's all. He's just about the ultimate team player for a guy of his skill level and physical abilities. Notice just about all the players (except some who he faced) love him. Especially older players like in particular Larry Bird.

It is forgotten now that there was a fair amount of dislike for Jordan during his playing days too, so unfortunately this happens. However, it has been worse with LeBron than I have seen with any other athlete. I think the timing of his career with the internet and "hot takes" has all created a perfect storm. He also was given the mantle of being a superstar at 18 which to me is insane that he could have that happen and live up to the hype.

By the way, I am a Celtics fan saying this.

Because rings are won by players and not teams? I am really bothered by this line of thinking. I wonder what you think of Barkley? Rank him below every player who has a ring? This guy had to play in Cleveland with Mo Williams as the most talented player he played with for years and Mike Brown as his coach.

@artisanbreads: Yeah, I was joking about him fading away because I'm tired of him kicking our asses. But when you look back at his highlights, it's incredible stuff. He's keeping an undermanned team competitive against the best team this year. When people today asked me about it at lunch, my response was "ugghh... I don't wanna talk about it. He's so damn good right now." If he had signed with the Bulls instead of Miami or went to the West, he'd be one of my favorite players. But that just isn't the case.

The only thing that could hold him back is losing in the Finals a bunch of times, but that doesn't take away from his dominance.

Yeah I totally respect your point of view on it and you're not one I was criticizing. I get it. I want to beat him too and hope to in the years to come as a Celtics fan. It's just I respect the hell out of the guy and think he hasn't gotten enough credit.

Like what he's doing right now is super impressive. But even the 07 Finals. Yeah the Cavs got swept, but LeBron dragged that team to the Finals in his third year I believe. Seriously, look at this roster. Big Z was a solid player but that's the second best player on the team. And Mike Brown coaching too.

The starters were Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes, LeBron, Big Z, and Drew Gooden! In the Finals! Ira Newble, Boobie Gibson, Donyell Marshall, Varejao, Damon Jones playing major back up roles. That's a terrible supporting cast. I remember talk of Larry Hughes supposedly being LeBron's sidekick star...

@artisanbreads: Yes, because Barkley has not won a ring I can't rank him in my top 4. I did mention in my previous post that stats also play a factor? I wouldn't rank Horry in my top 4 even though he's essentially won 7.

As for Lebron himself what I was saying is that there's tons left in his career to define where he stands when he's compared to the all-time greats. It's like taking Penny Hardaway and saying he's GOAT before Shaq leaves and he suffers those rash of injuries. Let his career finish up before crowning him. The 4 on my list are either retired or is almost calling it a career.

I personally put Lebron at #10 all-time. Between his stats, the level he's play at for so long, plus dragging teams into the Finals (as much as I enjoyed Lebron's run with the Heat, those teams looked like they got old in those last two years), it's hard for me not to place him at 10. He's also got time to rise.

Now I'm sitting here adjusting where Duncan ranks for myself.

I would have to see the play again, because I don't remember the change in pivot foot. If that is the case, then that does get called (usually on centers underneath).

I don't like the whole "cancel each other out" philosophy of officiating. You can't make up for a bad call by making another bad one.

The officiating was horrendous that night, especially in the 4th quarter/OT.

I have also lost some respect for Steve Kerr and the Warriors for employing the "Hack-a-Shaq" on Thompson in order to get back into the game late. I know it's not illegal, but it's the cheapest and most cowardly of strategies to get back into a game and you did it in the damn NBA Finals, the apex of basketball prowess.

To their credit, though, they stopped after only a couple of times. They still should have never done it in the first place, though.

They only stopped though because Thompson got subbed off and I believe the Hack-a-Shaq goes down as an unsportsmanlike (or something to that effect) in the last 2 mins of Q4 (which is when Blatt brought Thompsonback on).

Not as bad as the Clips v Rockets series though with the non-stop Hacks

@captain_insano: Nothing will ever be as bad as the Clippers-Rockets series, especially Game 4 or 5, whichever one where DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard combined for like 55 FTAs. It was like watching 6 year-olds trying to kick an NFL field goal.

I'm surprised the NBA didn't just cancel that series right there and say that they both lose. Haha

Draymond should of kept the fro!

@i_stay_puft: How can he look so sad with hair like that?

Alternatively: If he kept it, would he still be considered undersized for a power forward?

@citizenkane: Well, at least the NBA is acknowledging it. This is the play I was talking about:

With 1:37 remaining in overtime, the NBA said the Warriors' Andre Iguodala wasn't called for making contact with LeBron James' arm on a shot attempt as the 24-second shot clock expired. However, the league also admitted Monday that James had moved his pivot foot before the shot attempt and should have been called for traveling before the contact was made.

Game 3 is starting! Let's go Cavs!

Delly is my new underdog NBA player, he's channel his inner Chris Dudley and Craig Ehlo.

I want the Warriors to win, but is everyone on the Cavs going to get injured?