Opinions on Joe Paterno Statue Removal?

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

I agree that what Sandusky did was worse. Though, what Paterno did was still pretty darn bad, and it's significant to the weighing of whether or not there should be any standing honor toward him such as a statue.

Sandusky raped those boys, but Paterno placed him in that position to rape them with the full knowledge that he had raped before. So, sure, the rapist in the room harmed those boys, but there was a man who placed that rapist and those boys in the same room, knowing full well of what might happen. That's pretty bad. It shows that a once decent man allowed his personal investment in the university to outweigh his duty as an administrator and human being to protect the students, and for someone in any high level of a place of learning, that's appalling and tarnishing of any level of good legacy he had.

Being complicit in rape and child molestation makes you no better than the rapist himself, as far as I am concerned.

I've been a victim myself, and I know for a fact the perpetrator in question was known as such by certain people who looked the other way.

One wonders how many people would be defending this scumbag if he wasn't a famous football coach, but instead a school teacher or a priest?

here's a different way of looking at this - would you let your child be alone with jerry sandusky? How about a shower, would you let sandusky take a shower with your son? JOE PATERNO WOULD.

@Tim_the_Corsair: Someone say priest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_the_Catholic_archdiocese_of_Boston

I see no problem in tearing the thing down. There is no reason the students and (innocent) faculty members should be subjected to the reminder of the disgusting acts done by a part of the schools employed in the form of a "idolized" statue. Should a statement be made for this type of thing so that we do not have a rinse and repeat? Yes. However, I do not find the idea or explanation behind the removal of the statue to be held in any regard to the circumstance.

@Tim_the_Corsair said:

Being complicit in rape and child molestation makes you no better than the rapist himself, as far as I am concerned. I've been a victim myself, and I know for a fact the perpetrator in question was known as such by certain people who looked the other way. One wonders how many people would be defending this scumbag if he wasn't a famous football coach, but instead a school teacher or a priest?

Jerry Sandusky rapes children? It's his fault.

A Priest rapes a kid? Religion itself is at fault.

@OneManX said:

It had to be done, I dont think destroying it is right, b/c of the alumni and the Paterno family will make sure that wont happen. As for the program, I think they just shut it down... and get the Death Penalty, to much poison in the systems and the report pretty much states that this cover up went pretty deep.

But what do you do with a statue of someone who let a rapist rape children? Seriously, "Not Destroying it" isn't a choice anymore. It needs to be done. We should just melt it down into another, smaller, statue based on like... the player determination or something... something to get away from this scandal monstrous thing at least.

I don't go to Penn State, so I have no idea. I guess let the school have a democratic vote about it. But honestly, it's just a statue, and eh, I don't really care.

Glad it's down. Don't celebrate or honor monsters.

It should have stayed as a mark of shame for all of academia to reflect upon.

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

I'm sad. Sad because you are probably not the only one who thinks this way.

@KrypticKiller said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

I'm sad. Sad because you are probably not the only one who thinks this way.

Get off your high fucking horse.

All questions of his culpability aside, it would seem strange to leave the statue up after they fired him.

I wonder how some of you saying it isn't as bad would feel about Joe Paterno if it was your child that had been raped.

Imo, he deserves everything he gets, and then some.

I think the NCAA should do what the WWE did with Chris Benoit.  Pretend he never existed.

@bartok said:

I think the NCAA should do what the WWE did with Chris Benoit. Pretend he never existed.

Seems like that's what they are doing. They announced this morning that all Paterno wins from 1998 to 2011 are vacated and Penn State has been fined $60 Million, as well as a 4 year ban on Bowl games and the removal of 20 scholarships a year for 4 years.

@SeriouslyNow said:

@JasonR86: They should have just turned the statue to look the other way. Also, "rationale".

Nice. Also, yeah I can't spell. Or is that spall? Spele? Spill? Fuck it. I can't do that thing.

@phrali said:

here's a different way of looking at this - would you let your child be alone with jerry sandusky? How about a shower, would you let sandusky take a shower with your son? JOE PATERNO WOULD.

You've made three posts in a row. We get where you're coming from. We all got it.

@KrypticKiller said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

I'm sad. Sad because you are probably not the only one who thinks this way.

Uh huh.

@PrivateIronTFU:

Thanks dude.

Not having a statue built after a guy that let a child preditor pray on children seems reasonable.

The NCAA just revealed Penn State's punishment:

• A $60 million fine, which is the annual gross revenue of the Penn State football program.
• All wins from 1998-2011 are being taken away.
• A four year ban on bowl games.
• The loss of twenty scholarships per year for the next for years.
• Five years of probation.

@Dagbiker said:

Not having a statue built after a guy that let a child preditor pray on children seems reasonable.

+ 1

dont see the why a person would even bring up if they should remove it or not.

of course they should.

@Hailinel said:

The NCAA just revealed Penn State's punishment:

• A $60 million fine, which is the annual gross revenue of the Penn State football program.
• All wins from 1998-2011 are being taken away.
• A four year ban on bowl games.
• The loss of twenty scholarships per year for the next for years.
• Five years of probation.

I really hope it doesn't stop there. If this stays a 'football problem' I'll be really irritated.

@stinky said:

@Dagbiker said:

Not having a statue built after a guy that let a child preditor pray on children seems reasonable.

+ 1

dont see the why a person would even bring up if they should remove it or not.

of course they should.

As I've mentioned before, the actual act of tearing down the statue is less the point. The point is the meaning behind it. It is a very dramatic way to demonize Paterno and the football program by the university and shove off responsibility when the entire university acted as a safe-haven for Sandusky. The university is throwing whatever they can under the bus and hoping that they don't get hit themselves. It is akin to a child pointing the finger at someone else and hoping his parents believe him. So far, it seems to be working beautifully.

@JasonR86 said:

As I've mentioned before, the actual act of tearing down the statue is less the point. The point is the meaning behind it. It is a very dramatic way to demonize Paterno and the football program by the university and shove off responsibility when the entire university acted as a safe-haven for Sandusky. The university is throwing whatever they can under the bus and hoping that they don't get hit themselves. It is akin to a child pointing the finger at someone else and hoping his parents believe him. So far, it seems to be working beautifully.

he should be demonized. he gave a thumbs up to raping children. to him its not a big deal, not even worth reporting.

"hey kids, stop crying, i got some football to play. GO TEAM!"

in no way do i think a bunch yokels playing football is worth that. need someone better.

@stinky said:

@JasonR86 said:

As I've mentioned before, the actual act of tearing down the statue is less the point. The point is the meaning behind it. It is a very dramatic way to demonize Paterno and the football program by the university and shove off responsibility when the entire university acted as a safe-haven for Sandusky. The university is throwing whatever they can under the bus and hoping that they don't get hit themselves. It is akin to a child pointing the finger at someone else and hoping his parents believe him. So far, it seems to be working beautifully.

he should be demonized. he gave a thumbs up to raping children. to him its not a big deal, not even worth reporting.

in no way do i think a bunch yokels playing football is worth that. need someone better.

So you have no problem with the fact that people who were just as complicit in the raping were the ones who took down the statue? You're alright with that hypocrisy?

@JasonR86 said:

So you have no problem with the fact that people who were just as complicit in the raping were the ones who took down the statue? You're alright with that hypocrisy?

taking down the statue should just be one element of the school's and those involved rectification.

@stinky said:

@JasonR86 said:

So you have no problem with the fact that people who were just as complicit in the raping were the ones who took down the statue? You're alright with that hypocrisy?

taking down the statue should just be one element of the school's and those involved rectification.

That's very true. If the school gets off free of charge and public humiliation, which I see happening, then I'll be really frustrated.

@JasonR86 said:

@Donkeycow said:

@JasonR86: How much of the university management do you think was really aware of the situation? If tons of people knew then this sicking activity would have been ended much sooner. Paterno DID know, thus his statue is being taken down (which it should). I don't think its fair to say the entire administrative body of the University was in the know of what was happening, knowledge of this would have largely been focused in the football department.

Sandusky was also a member of the faculty and ran his charity out of the school. He had his hands all over the university. I just can't believe that the football program staff were the only people sharp enough at the university to know what was going on.

There's no reason to believe that the football program staff were the only ones to know. Reports have already shown that others higher up than the football program knew. There's no real doubt about it.

With what is known now, pretty much everyone knew. Former Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno knew. Former Penn State University president Graham Spanier knew. Former Penn State University vice president Gary Schultz knew. Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley knew. Everyone all the way up to the most powerful people at the university knew.

Taking down the statue was the right thing to do. It's just one small part of taking down everything tied to those involved. The school is facing big fines, and Paterno's statue being taken down is just the first blow in a number of big, well-deserved blows to the school and its management.

@JasonR86 said:

@stinky said:

@JasonR86 said:

So you have no problem with the fact that people who were just as complicit in the raping were the ones who took down the statue? You're alright with that hypocrisy?

taking down the statue should just be one element of the school's and those involved rectification.

That's very true. If the school gets off free of charge and public humiliation, which I see happening, then I'll be really frustrated.

Penn State was fined 60 million, forfeited scholarships, not allowed in bowl games or conference championships for 4 years, and linked to a high profile child sex scandal. (plus other stuff I don't remember) By the time the school's reputation is back to normal, any and all people even remotely involved will likely be long gone.

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

The NCAA just revealed Penn State's punishment:

• A $60 million fine, which is the annual gross revenue of the Penn State football program.
• All wins from 1998-2011 are being taken away.
• A four year ban on bowl games.
• The loss of twenty scholarships per year for the next for years.
• Five years of probation.

I really hope it doesn't stop there. If this stays a 'football problem' I'll be really irritated.

That's really the most that the NCAA can do. They only have the ability to sanction athletic programs, and the death penalty (which is arguably not as severe as this) is only reserved for programs that were already under sanction when they committed more infractions.

I don't know if there is a better option but I feel the penalties enacted by the NCAA do more harm than good. The student athletes currently attending Penn State are being punished for a crime they didn't commit and the sanctions don't do anything to help the victims. While I agree on the staute being removed, I feel like the speed at which the decision was made made it seem like they were trying to hide something. They probably didn't intentionally do that, but the way they handled it sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

Child rape is more important than football or money. This is an incident that deserves a close inspection of Penn State and why they let something like this occur. Hopefully they're kept in check for a long time. I feel no empathy for their loss and wish they could be hit harder with more penalties. The actions that Penn States has caused should not be forgotten for years and hopefully they can once again become a respectable university. This is bigger than football, Penn State as a whole is the problem and it should be rectified.

@Pr1vate_D0nut said:

I don't know if there is a better option but I feel the penalties enacted by the NCAA do more harm than good. The student athletes currently attending Penn State are being punished for a crime they didn't commit and the sanctions don't do anything to help the victims. While I agree on the staute being removed, I feel like the speed at which the decision was made made it seem like they were trying to hide something. They probably didn't intentionally do that, but the way they handled it sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

The NCAA is allowing all current and incoming members of the football team to transfer, if they so choose. And this wasn't a rushed decision. They waited until after the Freeh Report was completed and published, took the time to understand all of it, and then based their decisions upon it. And with the amount of attention that this case has gotten, sitting on their hands is the last thing that the NCAA would want to be seen as doing. Not to mention that the college football season will be getting underway fairly soon.

I do believe that others should suffer the legal consequences of what's been allowed to transpire. However, from the perspective of this NCAA punishment being targeted squarely at the football program, I think it's fair. Paterno football was the center of life at Penn State, and the university is being punished for putting football above everything else.

@JasonR86 said:

@Hailinel said:

The NCAA just revealed Penn State's punishment:

• A $60 million fine, which is the annual gross revenue of the Penn State football program.
• All wins from 1998-2011 are being taken away.
• A four year ban on bowl games.
• The loss of twenty scholarships per year for the next for years.
• Five years of probation.

I really hope it doesn't stop there. If this stays a 'football problem' I'll be really irritated.

That's really the most that the NCAA can do. They only have the ability to sanction athletic programs, and the death penalty (which is arguably not as severe as this) is only reserved for programs that were already under sanction when they committed more infractions.

It should absolutely have been taken down. We're talking about a guy who, when all this came to a head, sat down with reporters and said he didn't really know what it was because "[he] never heard of, of, rape and a man." Dude played the doddering old grandad card despite the fact that he clearly knew for years, helped the school at large cover it up, and purposefully pretended to know nothing to keep his own legacy in check. He was selfish enough to put himself and his program before kids getting raped. I'm not saying the school shouldn't be punished (and there will be some major ramifications from those NCAA penalties; those are big), but the statue could not stand. Paterno was not the head of "The Great Experiment." He was simply the one spinning it.

They should keep the statue where it is.

Just put another statue of Jerry Sandusky molesting someone behind it so he's facing the other way.

Everyone involved in this is scum.

fuck joe paterno, his supporters, and his stupid family! the statue needed to come down. i still hope sandusky finds himself on the business end of a dumb bell or a broomstick, ending up unresponsive in a pool of his own blood. the same goes for those who knew what was going on and did nothing about it.

@Pr1vate_D0nut said:

I don't know if there is a better option but I feel the penalties enacted by the NCAA do more harm than good. The student athletes currently attending Penn State are being punished for a crime they didn't commit and the sanctions don't do anything to help the victims. While I agree on the staute being removed, I feel like the speed at which the decision was made made it seem like they were trying to hide something. They probably didn't intentionally do that, but the way they handled it sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

They are allowed to transfer and play this season. I'm pretty sure

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

You're right, they're not the same, but being in a position of being able to stop a rape and then not doing so should be seen as negatively as it has. He may not have been raping them himself, but he could have stopped it, meaning that he was equally responsible when he - and others - actively covered it up. Moreover, if this isn't the point of the thread, then maybe don't bring it up and get so defensive about it.

@JasonR86: This isn't only a football problem I agree, but the football program is largely responsible. There's a chain of command here, and the football program had an internal problem (a very BIG problem) and covered it up. It then snuck out to the University administration and they continued where the football program started. Obviously the NCAA had to punish the football program...

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Otzlowe said:

@JasonR86 said:

@TruthTellah said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

Good, he was a bastard worthy of no praise.

Wait, you sure you're talking about Paterno? Paterno was the much-beloved, elderly coach. Not Sandusky, the convicted serial child molester.

I have a feeling most people don't see or care to acknowledge the difference. The demonizing is working wonders isn't it?

Effectively enabling someone to rape children is every bit as bad as actually raping them. The difference is fairly minimal, frankly.

Having knowledge and not stopping a rape isn't the same as raping. Both are terrible. One is worse. One directly hurts a person. The other does so indirectly. This discussion is also not really the point of the thread.

You're right, they're not the same, but being in a position of being able to stop a rape and then not doing so should be seen as negatively as it has. He may not have been raping them himself, but he could have stopped it, meaning that he was equally responsible when he - and others - actively covered it up. Moreover, if this isn't the point of the thread, then maybe don't bring it up and get so defensive about it.

I don't remember bringing it up. I also don't remember becoming defensive. Not to you at least.

@SpartyOn said:

@JasonR86: This isn't only a football problem I agree, but the football program is largely responsible. There's a chain of command here, and the football program had an internal problem (a very BIG problem) and covered it up. It then snuck out to the University administration and they continued where the football program started. Obviously the NCAA had to punish the football program...

No the NCAA did need to do something you're right. Whether the punishments were right or not is another issue. However, the NCAA didn't take down the statue. Again, I'm good with the statue coming down. The issue is that those who took it down are as responsible for the covering up as the person symbolized by the statue.

The fact that Paterno isn't the only one to blame here doesn't make him any less of a fucking scumbag. Leaving his statue up would be one last, big "fuck you" to the victims.

@Pr1vate_D0nut said:

I don't know if there is a better option but I feel the penalties enacted by the NCAA do more harm than good. The student athletes currently attending Penn State are being punished for a crime they didn't commit and the sanctions don't do anything to help the victims. While I agree on the staute being removed, I feel like the speed at which the decision was made made it seem like they were trying to hide something. They probably didn't intentionally do that, but the way they handled it sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

They are allowed to transfer and play this season. I'm pretty sure

They should've asked the victims what they thought about it. Now if that was done privately then thats cool. I understand it had to come down but now looking at that void.. it seems worse to me. My thoughts on everything is NOTHING will make it better. It happened and those men who were kids at the time will never be at peace.. at least I don't think.. one thing the University should do is pay for whatever medical therapy stuff they need to get through the recovery.. the top of the line best programs. It also seems that people in the community, well most or a good chunk, want the statue up and everyone outside the community wanted that shit torn down. So yeah, I don't live in College Park nor do I go to Penn State so it doesn't affect me but either way it doesn't help a damn thing.

@Jay444111 said:

@OneManX said:

It had to be done, I dont think destroying it is right, b/c of the alumni and the Paterno family will make sure that wont happen. As for the program, I think they just shut it down... and get the Death Penalty, to much poison in the systems and the report pretty much states that this cover up went pretty deep.

But what do you do with a statue of someone who let a rapist rape children? Seriously, "Not Destroying it" isn't a choice anymore. It needs to be done. We should just melt it down into another, smaller, statue based on like... the player determination or something... something to get away from this scandal monstrous thing at least.

Again out of respect for his family, who are innocent in this whole thing, and at the end of the day that is still their husband/father, again just out of respect. Doesn't mean that they have to put it back up one day many years from now, or not.

Ladies and gentlemen, NCAA Commissioner President Roger Goodell Mark Emmert.

I defended Joe Paterno on these very forums. I feel like an ass now. Fucking dirt bags. The lot of them. I'm fine with removing the statue. Penn State has a long road ahead of them.

wait. the fuck? i didnt know they made statues of living people. thats retarded lol.

statues should be like stamps, you cant get on them till you're dead.

I wish this would have been the reaction when the Pope did the same thing, but on a much larger scale.

The Guy was an old piece of trash. Why was he the one condemned? He was Penn State Football and that was the problem.