Star Wars The Last Jedi Discussion (tag your spoilers!)

So I saw it on Weds and have been digesting it since I saw it. Ultimately I think that it may be my favorite saga Star Wars movie since Empire. That said I still think Rogue One is better.

I absolutely loved how they used Luke/Hamill in this film. For the record, I haven't ever been a fan of Lukes character up to this point. I thought he was a boring, cookie cutter hero type and that his presentation in original saga (4/5/6) are some of the worst elements of that. The Last Jedi didn't just redeem him for it, it justified his entire arc. Star Wars isn't about the the pure sith, or the pure jedi. It never has been. Star wars the main saga has always been about the repercussions of the force users who suffer with the duality of light and dark. I was so happy to see the Last Jedi frame Kylo Ren as the character. Because of course he is. He's the closest of all the characters to being Anakin/Vader. He's the one who struggles with light/dark, and that duality is what causes whole empires and societies to change and crumble. It's the entire premise of this universe.

Luke is just a basic hero jedi. He wants to save people. Nothing more nothing less. Not to mention that he has always been shown as a character who never had any issues or any threat of turning to the dark side. His framing in this movie as someone who would of been afraid of the temptation of the dark side in Kylo I thought made perfect sense. Luke would be scared of something he's only really had experience with once. And let's remember, Luke only knows of the dark side through post turned Anakin Vader. Do you think Luke may of had a different reaction to Vader if he was around when he murdered all the younglings in RoTS? Absolutely. Luke is such a "good moral" character that I absolutely believe that he'd see the dark side in an emotional Kylo's visions. There was probably some truly dark shit that he was seeing in there.

Anyway all of that aside I thought the movie as a whole was good, but not amazing. I didn't think there was anything nearly as surprising as a lot of people said. The two or three big things weren't obvious by any means, but they were totally within the realm of plausible things in the universe that could happen imo. I thought Drivers Ren was the standout acting wise, however I thought Poe as a character ended up getting the most meat/was the most interesting. The entire Finn and Rose subplot was bad, they just didn't have the chemistry to sell it and I can't help but feel that the rushed through scenes in Canto Bight did a disservice to how interesting the dynamic on that planet was. If they were going to go there, we should of dealt full in. It was a gambling planet, how in the hell did Finn not have to play some Poker or something to try to get someones help? How did we not get investigations into some of the other things going on, instead of what we had? It felt like we were on that planet for 10 minutes or something.

As for the comedy aspects, I was expecting prequel levels of bad the way the fan outrage has been. It was all pretty much just marvel or harry potter esque supplemental scenes with animals that never talked. How is that offensive or bad? Even if you didn't find them all funny, which I didn't, the few that land are fine and they are so few and far between that I don't know didn't bug me at all. I guess it interrupted some of the more dramatic scenes, but that isn't new in Star Wars either so.

The best thing about the movie for me though was seeing how the thematic elements come together near the end of the film, specifically the idea that they should be more concerned about saving each other and resisting the empire than trying to fight and kill them. I feel like if anything has been learned over the course of this giant silly saga it's that there will always be bad guys with more weapons, more money and resources, trying to kill you.

Honestly my biggest issue with the film is I'm kind of confused like, overall, what is even happening. Is there a Republic again? I know Courscant got blown up in TFA, but would that suddenly mean that there is no democracy? I thought we had like a Senate and all that following the end of Return of the Jedi? The opening text crawl of Last Jedi seems to hint that there is something going on, but am I correct in assuming the implication was that the First Order had kinda taken over one way or the other? And that the resistance was all that was left fighting them? I get that the politic stuff bugged people in the prequels, but if your going to do a giant universe like this, that stuff has to come into play at some point. Can you imagine a Marvel Movie that never once showed the government involvement? That'd be the silliest thing ever.

Coruscant wasn't destroyed, it was some other planet which became the new capital.

The whole rise of the First Order has always befuddled me, I guess I'd need to get into the books or comics for that backstory. It's like they came out of nowhere with a gazillion troops.

Yes, because the Empire stationed all their troops on the Death Star...

The Endor celebration, in retrospect, was the equivalent of Bush's "Victory" moment.

I still need to digest it, but I didn't like it. I think I like it more than Force Awakens, but it's so much more confusing. It's one I'll need to sit on. It plays it too safe most of the time, and the few risks it takes are either stupid or aren't fully committed to. The franchise feels like a plane with no pilot, but a bunch of random passengers are taking turns to figure it out.

The porgs were worse than I could have ever imagined.

@quid_pro_bono: I think what bothers me the most is that Luke has all ready dealt with this situation before. He saw the good in Vader and risked his life on a chance that he could change Vader to be good. So to see him make the sudden decision to kill his own nephew based on "feeling the darkness" in him just doesn't really make sense when you take his past actions of selflessness into account. It just seems like there is more to that story line than they let on in the film and for some reason is left out. I guess someone felt that the casino planet was more important than flushing out characters and their decisions.

I think you're also over-generalizing what Mark Hamill said about Luke... He doesn't see him as a perfect character, but believes that after all this time his character would have grown and matured between the time of RoTJ and TFA. Instead, he's just... cowardice and ignorant about his failure over Ben.

Thinking about this movie over a week later, so I will give it that. But everything this movie is, still completely boggles my mind.

How did Johnson come to the conclusion that a cheap gag was the appropriate follow up to this scene? Smdh

I have also been thinking a lot about the prequels since seeing this movie. Those movies had major problems, but one thing they did nail that this film utterly failed at was the sense of scale. They felt epic. You could feel the size of the galactic war. This movie feels so small, so insignificant.

Finally got around to it, unfortunately count me among the disappointed. Didn't like to many of the bigger choices made with regards to the story and characters, the comedy bits REALLY didn't hit (with the first one probably being the worst in the entire movie), and by the end I was just kinda watching my clock waiting for it to wrap up. The worst part is I just have zero excitement for Episode 9.

I saw the quality of Luke that stopped him from killing Vader as the very same that enabled him to recognize the path his fear had sent him down with his nephew. The part of Luke that was this principled hero unbeguiled by the war between extremes remained unchanged. He was just too late.

My read was that Luke, alone as a teacher of thirteen, was unprepared for the undertaking, especially when the darkside took up residence within some of them. The pressure of being the last of the Jedi led him to so monumental a failure in trying to revive the Order. He took to exile in shame, and while growing to rebuke the institutions that followed from the Force, held on to the legend and romantic virtue of the Jedi.

It's not cowardice or ignorance, it's shame. A failure so intolerable he thought it best to remove himself, more man than legend, from galactic civilization.

Yoda meeting his hesitation with destruction made way for the meeting of Luke's conflicting sentiments. The last relics of the Jedi Order as far as he knew were finally gone, but he himself was still a Jedi, whether that meant what it did according to those burning texts or not. And so he became his legend and faced the First Order.

That's probably partially why he went there as an apparition/projection. The legend of Luke Skywalker, returned from self-imposed exile, who stood firm and unscathed against the fury of the First Order, allowing for the Rebellion to exist.

Practically, he probably wouldn't have been able to put on such a display had he been there physically.

On a personal note, he denied Kylo Ren victory over the former master, forcing him to suffer Luke's acknowledgment of Ren's lingering grief from killing his father, without the possibility for violent retribution after hearing it. The same master who Ben was so convinced was out to destroy him was there only as an illusion with the antithesis of destructive intent. I took this particular denial of victory aspect of Luke's ruse as the part that hoped to keep Kylo Ren from descending further along the dark-side; guidance as best as Luke could offer his beleaguered pupil.

Anyways, the stage is set for the old Jedi/Sith dichotomy to end, and for a new sort of Jedi to emerge. That might sound contradictory, and I don't mean to nerd out here (this is all probably "legends" in the canon at this point anyways), but as far as I know there were first only Jedi, then some Jedi became Dark Jedi who eventually took to calling themselves Sith. So technically, you know, they're all "Jedi" in a sense. It's not like Sith and Jedi are two independent things that happened to develop in parallel is what I mean.

"Balance" would basically be the destruction of both institutions, coupled with a reintegration of "the dark-side" and the light. I guess Luke's whole explanation of the Force to Rey also helps set the stage for that kind of depolarization.

That's totally fair. A lot of that flashback stuff relies on the viewer hanging onto every word Luke says and forcing themselves to imagine where he was coming from, rather than the movie making us feel where he was coming from.

Maybe not so easy to actually get fixed though. I think I remember hearing the original cut of this movie was something like 3 hours? It's already 30 minutes over what felt like a natural endpoint (though in retrospect what would've been far less satisfying an ending).

@theht: To add to this, there’s a reason that when Luke projects himself he has the lightsaber we just saw break in half in the Snoke aftermath and he has his classic hair and outfit. He’s playing to the Luke we and the people of the galaxy remember, not the reality of who Luke is after his failure.

The more I've thought about and analyzed The Last Jedi, the more I've grown to dislike it. It's reached the level of prequels for me, and the only reason it hasn't dropped below them is because I refuse to rewatch them to give them a second chance at not being the worst Star Wars movies.

I've been amazed by how many people I normally agree with have heaped praise on it. It's akin to the strange popularity of Ready Player One.

I don't want to keep banging this drum, but I would say that there's easily 20-30 mins of superfluous screentime that you could cut to make space. Especially if the focus is making a good, cohesive movie and not appealing to small children/selling toys. You know the parts I'm talking about.

@brackstone: I thought the movie had a messy script, but PORG'S are GREAT!!! How can you not love the porg with the little VR goggles on!!!

@sergio: I think a lot of fans will sour on the film as time moves on. There was insane amount of hype and praise after the Force Awakens initially came out. After a few months people started looking at it more objectively and saw its flaws in clearer light.

@core1065: Every single scene on Luke's island had a porg flying sitting, pooping whatever accompanied by that annoying screech. That sound effect played so constantly I thought I was getting tinnitus.

Honestly, the greatest sin this movie made was not making porgs cannibals. When chewie was eating them, he should have tossed one to the group watching him and they should have stripped it to the bone like piranhas. It would have made for an interesting experiment in market research, how well porgs sold pre and post cannibalism reveal.

Minions are the microtransactions of movies, only reason I see for the porg existing and being shown so much.

@darlingdixie: it’s been widely reported that the Porgs exist to cover up the puffins that lived all over the shooting location.

oh my god that's amazing.

@theht: You could easily cut out the entire Finn storyline and have him wake up from the bacta tank at the very end and not miss a beat but save a good 30-40 minutes for a more cohesive plot. I actually feel bad for John Boyega because of how poorly his character is being handled in this new trilogy. There is still hope with Episode IX but it might be too little too late at that point.

@brackstone: That would've been amazing - I just hope they make an incredibly bad, new Star Wars Holiday Special with Chewbacca and his porg buddies. Tap-dancing holiday themed Rey singing about the holiday force, Kylo spreading Christmas cheer while ice skating and the porgs singing fales nevada with tiny guitars.

On that we can agree.

@brackstone: That's what is really sticking with me all these days later about The Last Jedi. It's a movie that wants to have its cake and eat it, too. Rian Johnson wants to have this deconstruction of Star Wars, but either he or Disney was unwilling to get too far off the reservation for anything truly new or interesting. As a result, it fails at both. Most of the plot points that would be "shocking" are actually feints, rendered ineffective by later scenes (like Yoda destroying the Jedi bibles, only to show Rey having stolen them).

@humanity: That would have been a great choice compared to what they did with the story.

I told my friend that the New Order should have given Poe and Finn medals for accomplishing what they couldn't do themselves. They managed to reduce the resistance down to the capacity of the Millennium Falcon and remove Luke Skywalker from the picture. About the only "positive" thing their incompetence managed to do was set up Phantom Menace 2.

Since we're talking what ifs here, I didn't know how much I wanted Rey to take Kylo's offer until it didn't happen. Addressing @gundamguru's point, it would have set up something we actually haven't seen before. Mundane people vs powerful force users. Episode IX would have been about how a non force sensitive resistance overcomes the last vestiges of the jedi/sith. That would have tied in nicely with how Episode 8 was about letting go of the past, especially with how it portrayed the jedi order as a failed institution.

Moreover it would have made sense for Rey's character. Luke finds the resolve to resist the darkside by realizing that in striking Vader down he would become Vader. This is heavily foreshadowed to the audience and to Luke by the cave scene on Dagobah. On the other hand, Rey, in her weakest moment, her world shattered, a truth she had always feared exposed, finds the moral fiber to refuse the offer from someone showing her compassion because....reasons(she's the good guy and it would be too dark for a Disney movie I guess).

@humanity: That's a great idea. Apart from his connection with Rose(I hope she dies in the first scene of episode IX), nothing of note really happened with Finn.

I liked it. Everything involving Rey, Kylo, Luke, and Snoke were great. The relationship between Rey and Kylo is the most interesting thing happening in the Star Wars universe at the moment. I was surprised that the movie did things that were unexpected (in a good way) and I really liked that aspect of it. My criticisms: Poe and Finn were given inconsequential things to do, their roles are not important to this movie one bit. The whole casino and romance sidestory was completely unnecessary and dragged. The humor didn't land and felt forced.

fideo kojima Star Wars 8: Sons of Liberty

You nailed it with the film wanting to have it's cake and eat it too. Honestly, you want to encapsulate the entire movie in a single moment? It's when that rebel soldier says "salt" at the end. That pissed me off more than anything. The film knows it's just ripping off Hoth at the end there, it knows it doesn't have any original ideas, but somehow thinks it can excuse itself by either acknowledging how derivative it is or making the most insignificant of changes . The entire movie is going "hey it's kind of like that thing you've seen before, but wait, this time it's a bit different. See, we were listening when you said the Force Awakens was too much of a shameless remake".

Rian Johnson did a similar thing with acknowledging/explaining time travel in Looper, and it was just as much of a problem then. That's not the only link between The Last Jedi and Looper either.

I've definitely soured a lot on the film, and faster than I did with Force Awakens. This is still ahead of the prequels, but it's too close for comfort. Hux is movie Grievous levels of terrible. I feel so bad for Domhnall Gleeson.

The best thing that's going to come from this film is the inevitable Randy Quaid edit of that battering ram scene.

If anything this movie made me more anxious about Episode IX because of my hope that it can be steered back on track. If Force Awakens was, as Abby recently mentioned on a Beastcast, an homage to the original trilogy that was meant to gently let people know that hey, they heard you, they're gonna make the old Star Wars you like again - then Last Jedi was like a weird detour on the road to what you originally wanted to see. It doesn't have to be necessarily a bad detour, it can have some fun stuff to see when you're there, but ultimately it's not what you came for. At least, for some people thats what it is, as this thread has certainly shown that quite a few people enjoyed the Last Jedi a great deal. For the other half that maybe didn't enjoy it quite as much, I think Episode IX is still a beacon of hope. That said I think whatever JJ comes up with for the conclusion of the trilogy, it would have to be incredibly dense with a stellar story because man is it hard to rebound from this. Force Awakens was very familiar but it set up Episode 8 with a ton of great plot threads to follow, that they decided not to really engage with, and then made a movie thats almost 3 hours long and barely moves things along, while also wasting the potential of other lead characters. Finn had such potential: a Storm Trooper gone rogue, is he force sensitive or not? Is he a coward or did he finally find his inner strength through his friendship with Rey? What will happen to him after his back go seared with a lightsaber??? Questions, questions, questions! The answer is that he is a goof. Thats it, he's this goofy comic relief character that isn't especially great at anything. I mean after Force Awakens, what an incredibly disappointment that character turned out to be. But I don't want to get into all of what bothered me, I just bring that up to illustrate that Finn could potentially have a really great redeeming arc in episode IX but I'm just not sure it's going to be enough at that point, nor will anything be enough to cover up for this 3 hour gap in the trilogy.

Overall it would've been nice if Luke got way more screen-time and was treated like a character rather than just a "reluctant hero/mentor" plot device. The writer/director needs to have his head examined for giving Finn and Rose more time and lines than Luke. I think changing directors and them seemingly not working together hurt this series, which is weird, since you'd think Disney would be good at that considering the MCU. It seems like Johnson didn't like The Force Awakens or tried to too hard to do his own thing and it doesn't feel like a real trilogy anymore. Not like the original Star Wars trilogy or Nolan's Batman. Lucas and Nolan sticking around for all of those films kept the tone and story on track. It seems like Johnson doesn't care or actively dislikes the mysteries that Abrams setup and he has understandably pissed off Hamill, which might be a reason he was killed off. I didn't love TFA, but Disney might wish that Abrams did all 3 movies once all of this is over or that they brought in someone else like Whedon, considering he did Firefly/Serenity, I have way more faith in him than Johnson.

The relationship of Kylo, Luke, and Rey with each other was the only interesting thing. Everything else was filler, literally, since the new leader of the resistance just could've shared her plan with people, then Finn/Rose would've stayed aboard the ship and there would be no struggle for power on the ship. Plus Finn/Rose made things worse since the hacker revealed their cloaked ships which is what got most of the rebels killed including Luke in a indirect way. I don't hate the movie, but it's worse when you think about it and examine it.

The Last Jedi is a weird Star Wars movie. I'm still not entirely sure what to make of it. I've posted a lenghty "review" somewhere else already, so i'll encompass my thoughts in couple of points here.

GOOD:

BAD:

WEIRD:

I'm just happy they didn't rehash major parts of the old movies, no moments of "Hey, remember this?!".

Even the ending location, while super reminsicient of Hoth, ended up being it's own cool visual thing. I also want a crystal dog.

Abrams approved the story Johnson went with and I feel like Johnson actually did layer new questions on top of the mysteries JJ set up, at least as far as Rey goes. While he definitely presented the idea that Rey could fit in with the overall theme that anyone can be a beacon of hope within the force, his on the nose tease involving the reflections and drawing attention to her right hand along with her "parents" being revealed as nobody fits in with the mystery of the Skywalker lightsaber and why she had Luke's visions and not Anakin's allowing Abrams (formerly Treverrow) a choice of two paths to venture down wrapping up her story.

This past weekend on New Years Eve I took my 14 y.o. nephew to see The Last Jedi. This was my second time seeing it, and his first - I have to say I enjoyed it even more with a second viewing. Even some of my early thought about what "they could have done better" were removed. The movie improves upon seeing it again, at least in my case and I had already been warming up to what I thought was a good movie.

I saw it again on new years with my brother who hasn't seen it before and a few friends. The reception among the group was mixed. One person thought it was bad enough to the point where they shouldn't make anymore Star Wars movies, which I think is a bit melodramatic. My brothers girlfriend was pretty positive on the experience. The remainder of the group thought it was alright but when we started talking about it all the little issues kept creeping up.

Personally I was really mixed on Last Jedi after my first viewing and with time began to increasingly sour on it. I had just recently rewatched The Force Awakens as well as Rogue One, both of which I thought were much better movies. Rogue One has probably THE best space battle sequence of all Star Wars films ever made, and quite honestly is a great side story. Jyn Erso is a much more competent character than Rey, but that was a self contained movie that needed to have a clear beginning, middle and end, with a bridge layered on top of all that in under 3 hours. In fact it's somewhat embarrassing how much happens in Rogue One compared to Last Jedi, which seems to run 30 minutes too long while not having even half as much plot development.

After my second viewing, I was actually beginning to turn around in the first half. Knowing what will come next some of those quirky moments were fun and put a smile on my face. As the movie went on though, the bad dialog, poor pacing, and absurd plot direction started to rear it's ugly head once more. Unlike past Star Wars films where I look forward to key moments, I was sitting in the theater on my second viewing growing impatient with how much more pointless narrative we had to cover before the end. The casino planet remains the weakest and most superfluous part of the entire movie, and I stand by my earlier comment that had they cut all of it out and had Finn basically wake up at the end and proceed to have his signature fight, nothing of note would have been missed. In my opinion the Last Jedi continuous to be the weakest of the new Star Wars films, and is what I would call "The Disney Generation" entry of the franchise.

Hey guys, just saw this movie for the first time and I know there hasn't been a ton of internet discussion about it so I'm sure everyone wants to hear my two cents. So, here it is, the final word on the Last Jedi: it's okay.

I found the first half to be pretty meandering and boring but the last hour of the movie, starting with Kylo Ren killing Snoke, (I don't think spoiler tags are necessary anymore) was phenomenal. The climatic fight between Ren and Luke, in particular, was one of my favorite scenes in any Star Wars movie. Yeah, Luke brushing his shoulder off was kind of goofy but everything else was top notch. Adam Driver is the best part of this new trilogy by a mile. His character is so much more interesting than everyone else, he's really a perfect villain.

The one thing I heard constantly about this movie without context is "the casino part sucked" and lo and behold, the casino part did, in fact, suck. It's a shame that it drags so much but it's the most coherent political statement that the movie tries to make but it pretty quickly abandons that for a horse dog chase or whatever those things are. It also speaks to the biggest problem I've had with both Force Awakens and Last Jedi and that's how little Finn has mattered. John Boyega is great and the character should be the Han Solo of this new trilogy but he does almost nothing of consequence the entire movie. I didn't enjoy the sub-plot between him and Rose at all and the romantic aspect of it seems to completely come out of nowhere at the end. Along with the terrible line "we're going to win, not by fighting what we hate but saving what we love." Barf. I could go on and on about how stupid that line is but I digress.

I've seen a lot of people complain about the humor in this but it didn't bother me too much. There were some corny lines, for sure, but there always are in Star Wars movies. I'm glad that it didn't rely too heavily on nostalgia (except for that really bad Yoda scene) and I always appreciate when movies like this give little jabs to nostalgic exceptions, like burning the old Jedi books and all the "let the old things die" talk. For better or worse, I respect these movies for being their own thing and not doing a bunch of "hey, remember this thing!" stuff.

Overall, it was fine.

@milkman: The books didn't burn though, Yoda covered for Rey who ganked them.

I watched this a few weeks ago for the first time. It was barely OK. I'm on a phone so I can't expand much, but a lot of plot points were just bad, the characters are mostly uninteresting, Leia flying through space is monumentally stupid, and everything Finn does is cringeworthy. I don't really want to watch any more Star Wars after this.

Yeah, and everything surrounding the Casino planet mission or whatever you want to call it was a huge mess. I ended up like Solo pretty well, and I need to see Episode 9 at this point...I hope it's not a total mess like TLJ.

#NotMyLuke

Start the movement

As time has passed I’ve come to actually group in Last Jedi with the prequel movies in terms of quality. I’d even go as far as to say Phantom Menace is a better film, as much as I dislike small children in movies.

On the other hand Rogue One and now Solo are solid experiences. Solo was a bit childish but Rogue One has the perfect mix of comedy, action and drama even though you knew how it was going to end. There was a bit of that dumb TLJ goofiness to the acting and writing in Solo that dragged it down at times.

Sorry, I can't engage in this revisionist thinking. The dialog alone makes all the prequels worse than anything that came before or after. I have my problems with TLJ, but I'd watch it a dozen times before subjecting myself to Phantom Menace again.

And, yes, Solo is surprisingly good. I don't know where I'd put it if forced to rank it with all Star Wars movies, but it was well constructed, mostly well acted, had an engaging plot, and actually made me interested in seeing a sequel on the same time line.

@frytup: I wouldn't watch TLJ again simply because it's a drag of a movie. The prequels are all pretty bad, with some decent fight scenes that quickly get out of control, but at least they move, at least something happens. The Last Jedi is just such a nothing of a movie, with so little happening and I'd argue the dialog is some of the worst in all of Star Wars history. They took decent if not somewhat underdeveloped characters from Force Awakens and turned them into fumbling saturday morning cartoon caricatures.

Weird timing for this thread to pop back up. This showed up today in my Youtube feed. Thought it was pretty good.

@frytup: I saw the prequels again with my kids. I’d much prefer seeing those again vs. The Last Jedi.

I think The Last Jedi, by any measure, is a very bad movie.

I guess I consider the prequels not good, but watchable. I would have walked out on The Last Jedi if not for the child abandonment issue.

We'll have to disagree on that. Maybe watching the prequels with children makes them easier to swallow since they're written for children.

Look, I understand the problems people have with TLJ. As I said, I have plenty of problems with it myself and can pick out many scenes that make me groan. But the narrative direction it takes and the central message - that the Jedi are fundamentally a failure and are the root cause of the problems of the Star Wars universe - desperately needed to be said and is far more interesting than anything the prequels did.

Solo is much better than The Last Jedi. People can be pretentious and throw words like 'cinematography' around to look like they're qualified to say that one movie is objectively better than another, but Solo is more fun and stays much more true to the universe.

I'm not a total Last Jedi hater. I enjoyed it and have watched it again since, but it's my least favourite Star Wars movie. It seemed like the people involved in making the film don't really understand Star Wars beyond 'there are aliens and they shoot each other in space'.

There's no point in going into detail. All I will say is 'that Leia moment', 'Godspeed' and 'save the horsies'. These were the 3 things that I disliked the most.

@frytup: I agree that that themes in The Last Jedi are more interesting, 100%. It’s just the execution of it that’s so lacking. Most of the first 90 minutes or so could be deleted with no real impact aside from not wasting my time.

And, yeah, without being a parent, I’d have never gone back to the prequels as most aspects of them were pretty unappealing. I liked that detective bit in Clone Wars, young Obi Wan, and a few isolated images or moments, but by in large, they’re pretty iffy at best.

I love the prequels. They're f**king terrible, but I love them.

@frytup: ehh I think you’re putting a lot more emphasis behind that ‘central message’ than either the movie or the writers actually did. Also the dialog in the Last Jedi certainly makes it feel like it was written for a much younger audience. But to each their own of course.