The Economy

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wheeler

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Edited By wheeler

I recently watched a series on British TV called the Ascent Of Money, by professor Niall Ferguson. 
If you get a chance I highly recommend you watch this or read Niall Fergusons blogs on his web page http://www.niallferguson.com 
 
If only someone would let him run the British economy we would be "sorted" :) or maybe Vince Cable...
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#1  Edited By wheeler

I recently watched a series on British TV called the Ascent Of Money, by professor Niall Ferguson. 
If you get a chance I highly recommend you watch this or read Niall Fergusons blogs on his web page http://www.niallferguson.com 
 
If only someone would let him run the British economy we would be "sorted" :) or maybe Vince Cable...
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Godwind

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#2  Edited By Godwind

For someone to "run" the economy?  Sounds like communism. 

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Bobdaman18

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#3  Edited By Bobdaman18
@Godwind: and y is that a bad thing?
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thatfrood

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#4  Edited By thatfrood

because people don't work solely for the good of others?

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adam_grif

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#5  Edited By adam_grif

Well if wheeler, with 1 single post, thinks its a good idea, then who are we to argue?

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MrSnow

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#6  Edited By MrSnow

This stuff is too heavy.

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Godwind

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#7  Edited By Godwind
@Bobdaman18 said:
" @Godwind: and y is that a bad thing? "
Why is that a good thing?
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#8  Edited By luce
@Godwind said:
" @Bobdaman18 said:
" @Godwind: and y is that a bad thing? "
Why is that a good thing? "
He asked first!
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Godwind

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#9  Edited By Godwind
@luce said:
" @Godwind said:
" @Bobdaman18 said:
" @Godwind: and y is that a bad thing? "
Why is that a good thing? "
He asked first! "
He can suck it.
 
In a communist state, there is only Tetris.
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hicks91

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#10  Edited By hicks91

God hates tetris 
 

  Tetris is an action puzzle game where the player rotates falling block shapes to make them fit together in a pile. When a row is filled, it disappears, keeping the height of the pile of blocks from increasing. As the game progresses, it continually speeds up until the player starts making mistakes that allow the blocks to reach the top of the game area, ending the game. Tetris is unwinable, you can only put off your inevitable defeat. This fatalistic aspect of the game should come as no surprise since it was originally created in 1985 in the Soviet Union, where the Atheist government taught everyone that there is nothing but a bleak, pointless existence followed by death with no chance for Salvation. It is claimed that the word "tetris" comes from the game pieces all being made of four blocks. In reality, the game was named in mockery of the Trinity by adding a forth hypostasis, the Communist State, to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Because it is simple to program, versions of Tetris can be found on every game, computer, and operating system. There have even been implementations of Tetris done using computer controlled lights in office buildings, turning the lighted windows into the falling blocks. The ubiquity of Tetris is also because it is highly addictive. Its repetitive gameplay and use of a repetitive Russian folk tune causes players to slip into a hypnagogic state, making them receptive to the Communistic themes inherent in the game imagery (everyone is an unindividualistic block that must be made to fit together in Soviet conformity, and sometimes whole lines of people are made to disappear without any explanation). This is intentional, since, like all work done by the Soviet Academy of Science where Tetris was developed, it was part of secret military research, in this case having to do with mind control. (The US military also researched mind control video games in the 1980s, including one called "Polybius", but we never used them during the Cold War, unlike the Soviets who unleashed Tetris into the general public where it's still affecting people to this day.) Because of its fatalistic worldview and the danger it poses to people's God-given Free Will, all implementations of Tetris get ZERO CROSSES

from giantbomb's number 1 competitor 
 
http://objectiveministries.org/zounds/gaming.html
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thatfrood

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#11  Edited By thatfrood
@Godwind: That sounds like the opening to a film trailer.
 
"In a Communist state dominated by corruption and despair... there is only Tetris..."
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addictedtopinescent

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@Godwind said:
" For someone to "run" the economy?  Sounds like communism.  "
Sounds good
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hicks91

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#13  Edited By hicks91

Communism only works in the minds of tweenagers wearing their Che Guevara t-shirts, though

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#14  Edited By Bobdaman18
@Godwind: I'm not saying communism is a good thing, i was just looking for specific problems you have with what the OP was suggesting.  It just bothers me when people list something as reminding them of communism as the reason why its bad.  The US government has some communist (well my socialist) ideals in use that seem to be working out.  
 
Maybe that Niall guy has some good ideas for some programs that could help out...always good to be open to new ideas.
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wheeler

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#15  Edited By wheeler

My impression is that Niall Ferguson is for free markets, so not a communist.  

Governments generally dont run the economy (my error), but they can influence it with legislation, taxation, monetary policy ect..... Look at the Chinese deliberately keeping their currency devalued. To quote Niall, "The USA gets 10% unemployment and the Chinese gets 10% growth"
 
My comment was really about having an expert in the field of economics (and history) in charge I.E as the Chancellor of the Exchequer (uk). 
  
Naill seems very good at cause and effect predictions using an impressive knowledge of economic history. He did see the crash coming! 
 
He would get my Vote :)   
and I highly recommend his book or TV series "The Ascent Of Money",  Quote "not knowing this stuff can seriously damage your wallet"
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#16  Edited By Amorfati
@ThatFrood said:
" because people don't work solely for the good of others? "
Neither would a communist.
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wheeler

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#17  Edited By wheeler

@adam_grif
"Well if wheeler, with 1 single post, thinks its a good idea, then who are we to argue?  " 
 
Why the put down?
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#18  Edited By crunchUK

Basically, the USA and the UK do not provied the world with anything much these days... only money. And the banks lost all of that so really we're screwed for a good few years.

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thatfrood

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#19  Edited By thatfrood
@Amorfati: Communism is when there are no classes, no oppression, everyone is equal and there is no state. Every man helps the other. So, yeah. if there was Communism then a "communist" would work for the good of others. However, we're human and we don't do that, so Communism isn't possible! Every time we tried to better our position compared to someone else we'd be betraying the tenets of Communism.
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Godwind

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#20  Edited By Godwind
@ThatFrood said:
" @Amorfati: Communism is when there are no classes, no oppression, everyone is equal and there is no state. Every man helps the other. So, yeah. if there was Communism then a "communist" would work for the good of others. However, we're human and we don't do that, so Communism isn't possible! Every time we tried to better our position compared to someone else we'd be betraying the tenets of Communism. "
No Classes?  No Oppression?  Equality?  What the fuck will I do with out my RPGs.
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lilburtonboy7489

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#21  Edited By lilburtonboy7489

Wait.....why are we supposed to be impressed by him? What has he done?

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#22  Edited By Edin899

If there's no Economy i can still play streetfighter 4 all day ! Im the best at streetfighter 4
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#23  Edited By RJMacReady
@wheeler:  If only someone would let him run the British economy we would be "sorted" :) or maybe Vince Cable...  
 
The idea that 1 man can run an entire economy demonstrates serious naivety. Why is not only one man superior to others but so superior he can manage something so complex and dynamic as the actions of hundreds of millions of people pursuing their own desires.   Before you continue with this trend of thought you need to digest Hayek's " use of knowledge in society". Hayek argues that such an approach to economic management is impossible. "  the reason for this is that the "data" from which the economic calculus starts are never for the whole society "given" to a single mind which could work out the implications and can never be so given. "
 
This idea, personified from peopel on teh left, seems to me to be almost the extension of religion. Somehow superhumans exist buried in teh population and if only we can give these geniuses control over everyting tehy wll lead us to utopia. It's secular religion and has resulted in despots and murderers liek Stalin and Hitler.
 
hayek goes on : "
The peculiar character of the problem of a rational economic order is determined precisely by the fact that the knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess. The economic problem of society is thus not merely a problem of how to allocate "given" resources—if "given" is taken to mean given to a single mind which deliberately solves the problem set by these "data." It is rather a problem of how to secure the best use of resources known to any of the members of society, for ends whose relative importance only these individuals know. Or, to put it briefly, it is a problem of the utilization of knowledge which is not given to anyone in its totality.  "
 
Progressives, i don't believe, understand this property of the market, which is it internalizes more data then bureaucrats ever can.  To turn man into god is to aruge that :  One man knows how to secure the best use of resources for all members of society  members of society.   

Man is not a god adn there are not much difference between average people and economists and politicians. In many instances average people know more then economists adn politicains as these technocrats and self -proclaimed public services carry with them biases, which are dangerous when applied via policy that can potentially be wrong.
 
 http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw1.html
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#24  Edited By RJMacReady
@Bobdaman18:   and y is that a bad thing?  
 
Because of what Hayek said.
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Bobdaman18

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#25  Edited By Bobdaman18
@RJMacReady: good answer
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#26  Edited By wheeler
@crunchUK:  
Can't disagree with you there, we are mightily screwed and thats for sure...
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#27  Edited By damnboyadvance

One man running the entire economy is way too much to swallow. He would have way too much power, and these days, anybody would abuse that power, even if they swore not to.

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The_Ish

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#28  Edited By The_Ish
@Bobdaman18 said:
" @Godwind: and y is that a bad thing? "
Because it has never worked?
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wheeler

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#29  Edited By wheeler

@RJMacReady: 
"Progressives, i don't believe, understand this property of the market"

Progressives,  masters of the universe, blond hair blue eyed boys of the west, or whatever you call them, dont know their economic history, all that has happened, has happened before.

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The_Ish

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#30  Edited By The_Ish
@crunchUK said:
" Basically, the USA and the UK do not provied the world with anything much these days... only money. And the banks lost all of that so really we're screwed for a good few years. "
Hey look all we have to do is borrow (more) Chinese money. 
 
Then they can dictate our policies!
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wheeler

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#31  Edited By wheeler
@The_Ish said:
" @crunchUK said:
" Basically, the USA and the UK do not provied the world with anything much these days... only money. And the banks lost all of that so really we're screwed for a good few years. "
Hey look all we have to do is borrow (more) Chinese money.  Then they can dictate our policies! "

@The_Ish:
Ha ha ha ha ..... sob sob so true
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wheeler

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#32  Edited By wheeler
@damnboyadvance said:
"One man running the entire economy is way too much to swallow. He would have way too much power, and these days, anybody would abuse that power, even if they swore not to. "

Why would a politician abuse his power, when he got all that money coming in from lobyists...."sarcasm"