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#1 Edited by kortex (444 posts) -

I never understood all the the hate for Phil Fish (and Jonathan Blow btw) and when I saw him sitting on the couch on today's live stream I was expecting the worst from the chat. I am happy to say that I was wrong. What happened? Everybody seemed to be cool with him being there. As I said I never disliked him. I know he isn't a super-happy-funtime guy or that shy-indie-nerd everybody likes today, he is a person, you know... with opinions and stuff. So... thanks chat... I guess

#2 Posted by Kerned (1169 posts) -

Phil Fish seems like an awesome guy. I never understood the hate either. Even watching Indie Game: The Movie I had nothing but sympathy for the bullshit he was going through to get Fez completed.

#3 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1039 posts) -

He said Japanese games industry sucks. If you shame glorious Nippon, you should commit sudoku!

Online
#4 Posted by dungbootle (2457 posts) -

I missed the stream but he is a really cool guy, the bad image he gets is pretty unfair. Glad chat was civil.

#5 Posted by Milkman (16531 posts) -

I wasn't a fan of Fez at all and Phil can be a bit...let's say intense at times (I certainly never "hated" him or anything) but he was great on the stream today.

Online
#6 Edited by Morbid_Coffee (954 posts) -

People don't like him because he has really strong opinions about things and if you don't agree with the internet then you're a horrible monster who deserves to die.

But the real reason people don't like him is because he's French-Canadian. That's like twice the awfulness in one person!

#7 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1449 posts) -

I have never had a problem with Phil Fish, but I kind of think Jonathan Blow is full of himself. I love Braid, but the fact that he got pissed off because the people that loved his game and showered it with amazing reviews "didn't like it for the right reasons" or "didn't get what he was trying to convey" just makes him seem kind of like a pretentious dick. Maybe that's unfair, but that's what it seems like to me. His new game still looks pretty cool though.

#8 Posted by FLStyle (4581 posts) -

I wasn't fully aware of him beforehand but he seems like a cool guy to me.

#9 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4598 posts) -

People don't like Phil Fish because he's French Canadian. They don't mince words and aren't afraid to tell you what they really think.

It's why I love him, personally.

#10 Edited by Pr1mus (3813 posts) -

Philippe Poisson is awesome. The guy speaks his mind without consideration for political correctness which some people don't like.

#11 Posted by TheVeteran13 (1197 posts) -

He seems like he's not a bad guy but sometimes he opens his mouth way too wide and some shit falls out (metaphorically... or not, I don't know the guy)

#12 Posted by Winternet (8006 posts) -

He seemed like a nice folk. And like he was having a good time.

#13 Posted by Branthog (7342 posts) -

I've always kind of dug Phil Fish, though I know he gets a bit of a "moody" or "jerk" wrap. So does Blow, it seems. There was a time when I kind of didn't like Blow, but that was my fault. I judged him based on a lot of people who I felt were a bit pretentious in their adoration and constant not-shutting-the-fuck-up about Braid (a good game, but jesus some people wanked over it a bit excessively). After I realized more about what the dude himself was like, I even sent him an apology for being a dick and adding to the noise (because I know he used to have a reputation for reading everything about himself or his games online and taking it very personally). I felt legitimately bad about myself over my initial reaction.

Anyway, so what if they're both more thoughtful and intense and can be a little bit of a jerk than the average person? Welcome to the fucking software industry. I'd have a beer with both of these dudes and I'd gladly be the one to pay.

#14 Posted by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

#15 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -

He's just such a cunt. Fez was a fine game, but he can't provide criticism without being an absolute douchebag. He hasn't accomplished enough to earn that right.

#16 Posted by SuperFusion (43 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: It's pretty funny when people say that we don't mince words. When I went to NYC a couple months before, my friend told me to watch what I say because apparently some Americans don't appreciate how we word things. I didn't get that feeling because I barely talked to New Yorkers, but is this really how some Americans view our way of speaking?

#17 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

#18 Edited by casper_ (901 posts) -

on the topic of blow:

i kind of get why people have a bad attitude towards him despite the fact that i liked his game and agree with a lot of the stuff he says. my only problem with him is that it seems like a lot of his energy is focused outwards and a lot of his criticism of the game industry/ people who buy mainstream games can seem totally condescending. picasso didn't have to explain to people why his art was wonderful and deep and i doubt he really cared if people didn't get it. imo art isnt something that needs to be explained or need a justifiable reason for it to exist/be art, it just needs to be presented as art and that's about it.

#19 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4598 posts) -

@superfusion said:

@oldirtybearon: It's pretty funny when people say that we don't mince words. When I went to NYC a couple months before, my friend told me to watch what I say because apparently some Americans don't appreciate how we word things. I didn't get that feeling because I barely talked to New Yorkers, but is this really how some Americans view our way of speaking?

Not American myself, but I imagine if you aren't around French Canadians for any extended amount of time, they can be downright brutal when they're just being honest. I don't think it's malicious in nature. I lived in Montreal for a couple of years so I got used to it pretty quickly.

#20 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -

I've got it. My problem with him is that he thinks he's about a hundred times as successful and important as he really is. That really bothers me.

#21 Posted by villainy (538 posts) -

@oldirtybearon said:

People don't like Phil Fish because he's French Canadian. They don't mince words and aren't afraid to tell you what they really think.

It's why I love him, personally.

I suppose this could be it for me actually. He certainly doesn't hold back and in my admittedly limited knowledge of him I had built an idea of some brash, arrogant jackass. I never acted on that idea through bullshit forum posts or anything silly but I didn't hold him in a very high regard personally. All I had to go on was Indie Game: The Movie and whatever showed up on the few sites I follow. Seeing him interact with his industry peers and with the GB people was certainly eye opening and I was quite happy to have my eyes opened.

#22 Edited by kortex (444 posts) -

@ll_exile_ll: Don't you think that it is a valid opinion by an artist (that's right, I said it) like Jonathan Blow who is trying to express himself and deliver something to his audience and who feels people just didn't get the message? And does he not have the right to express his disappointment?

If we have the right to criticize his work, why shouldn't he be allowed to criticize our part in the creative process. The reader writes the text. And if the reader fucks up, well... then the text is fucked. You could blame the writer/artist for not delivering a good enough base for interpretation but that's a totally different argument than "Jonathan Blow is full of it".

#23 Posted by planetfunksquad (401 posts) -

@casper_ said:

picasso didn't have to explain to people why his art was wonderful and deep and i doubt he really cared if people didn't get it.

Picasso actually had a rep for being super arrogant. Just saying :)

#24 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@kortex said:

@ll_exile_ll: Don't you think that it is a valid opinion by an artist (that's right, I said it) like Jonathan Blow who is trying to express himself and deliver something to his audience and who feels people just didn't get the message? And does he not have the right to express his disappointment?

If we have the right to criticize his work, why shouldn't he be allowed to criticize our part in the creative process. The reader writes the text. And if the reader fucks up, well... then the text is fucked. You could blame the writer/artist for not delivering a good enough base for interpretation but that's a total different argument than "Jonathan Blow is full of it".

I thought everybody figured out easily that the girl was the atomic bomb and "humanity are all horrible monsters" pretty well.

#25 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -

http://www.twitch.tv/giantbomb/b/384113504

@38 mins. I truly hope Phil is just drunk, because his contributions are (if nothing else) rude and disruptive. "Fuck you, it's not art." "It's fast food. It's throwaway entertainment; all of it."

Fuck this egomaniacal piece of shit. Seriously. Fez was interesting, but it wasn't an amazing work of art. Listening to this asshole talk makes me sad that he succeeded in the gaming market. Fuckheads like himself deserve to rot in poverty and failure.

#26 Edited by SuperFusion (43 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: Really? Fascinating.. I wonder what makes us more honest with our words than others. Where were you originally from? Also, what was the moment where you vividly remember that happening?

#27 Posted by planetfunksquad (401 posts) -

@connerthekewlkid: There was the other level of it being based around a break up, but yeah, people got that pretty quick. It just wasn't talked about in reviews and that pissed him off I guess?

#28 Posted by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

#29 Edited by ajamafalous (11854 posts) -

@pr1mus said:

Phillipe Poisson

ahahahahha

But yeah, I really like him. I imagine people don't like him because he doesn't bullshit anyone. Says what he thinks even when it's not popular, which can be offensive to some people if they don't agree.

#30 Edited by kortex (444 posts) -
#31 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -

@superfusion said:

@oldirtybearon: It's pretty funny when people say that we don't mince words. When I went to NYC a couple months before, my friend told me to watch what I say because apparently some Americans don't appreciate how we word things. I didn't get that feeling because I barely talked to New Yorkers, but is this really how some Americans view our way of speaking?

Not American myself, but I imagine if you aren't around French Canadians for any extended amount of time, they can be downright brutal when they're just being honest. I don't think it's malicious in nature. I lived in Montreal for a couple of years so I got used to it pretty quickly.

Being an inconsiderate asshole is standard among French Canadians? If Mr. Fish created a game that reinvented the very idea of what a "game" is I could forgive his arrogance, but he made a limited 3-D platformer with puzzle elements. He does not get to say shit like "____ is fast food; it's throwaway entertainment."

Fez may be a fine game, but it is simple and it is throwaway entertainment. Mr. Phil Fish is a hypocritical, egomaniacal moron.

#32 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

#33 Edited by kortex (444 posts) -

@contrarygravitas said:

@oldirtybearon said:

@superfusion said:

@oldirtybearon: It's pretty funny when people say that we don't mince words. When I went to NYC a couple months before, my friend told me to watch what I say because apparently some Americans don't appreciate how we word things. I didn't get that feeling because I barely talked to New Yorkers, but is this really how some Americans view our way of speaking?

Not American myself, but I imagine if you aren't around French Canadians for any extended amount of time, they can be downright brutal when they're just being honest. I don't think it's malicious in nature. I lived in Montreal for a couple of years so I got used to it pretty quickly.

Being an inconsiderate asshole is standard among French Canadians? If Mr. Fish created a game that reinvented the very idea of what a "game" is I could forgive his arrogance, but he made a limited 3-D platformer with puzzle elements. He does not get to say shit like "____ is fast food; it's throwaway entertainment."

Fez may be a fine game, but it is simple and it is throwaway entertainment. Mr. Phil Fish is a hypocritical, egomaniacal moron.

Have heard about this new thing? It's called "sarcasm". You should try it. Can be dangerous because not everyone will understand you but it's pretty fucking funny.

#34 Posted by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

mind giving me a specific date on when he made those tweets, just went back and looked at his feed and only saw the stuff where hes talking about how he was messing around about hating nintendo.

#35 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

The guy is a joke. When he releases a game that has any impact above and beyond Fez I will back down. Until then, he's an alcoholic egomaniac with a huge problem admitting fault. He's also just a fucking asshole.

#36 Posted by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

mind giving me a specific date on when he made those tweets, just went back and looked at his feed and only saw the stuff where hes talking about how he was messing around about hating nintendo.

If you scroll farther you should see him saying "Oh no Destructoid has AAA journalists 5/5" and then getting into an argument with the writer of the article on twitter.

Unless he deleted it which would be hilarious

#37 Edited by SuperFusion (43 posts) -
@kortex said:

@ll_exile_ll: Don't you think that it is a valid opinion by an artist (that's right, I said it) like Jonathan Blow who is trying to express himself and deliver something to his audience and who feels people just didn't get the message? And does he not have the right to express his disappointment?

If we have the right to criticize his work, why shouldn't he be allowed to criticize our part in the creative process. The reader writes the text. And if the reader fucks up, well... then the text is fucked. You could blame the writer/artist for not delivering a good enough base for interpretation but that's a total different argument than "Jonathan Blow is full of it".

It's valid to be disappointed, but from what he was saying in Indie Game: The Movie, I have a feeling like he wanted people to see his game the way HE sees it. I think he's putting too much pressure on people to see things his way. It's normal that he sees his game in a very deep and personal level, since he's lived and breathed with the damn thing for 2-3 years. But expecting your audience to have the same deep understanding as you sets you up for disappointment.

#38 Edited by Kerned (1169 posts) -
#39 Posted by planetfunksquad (401 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

He blocked dudes who were throwing hate over some shit he said on twitter. I woulda told them to fuck off too. Also throwing Destructoid under a bus for posting a game developers irrelevant twitter updates as news, with a hefty dose of snark, is entirely justified.

#40 Edited by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

The guy is a joke. When he releases a game that has any impact above and beyond Fez I will back down. Until then, he's an alcoholic egomaniac with a huge problem admitting fault. He's also just a fucking asshole.

im with ya on the pretentious douche remark, ill at least say that, especially coming off watching that GB gdc show.

but i dunno, havent really paid attention to the guy after the japanese games suck remark , and after watching the indie game movie and really not liking him there.

#41 Edited by joey (980 posts) -

http://www.twitch.tv/giantbomb/b/384113504

@38 mins. I truly hope Phil is just drunk, because his contributions are (if nothing else) rude and disruptive. "Fuck you, it's not art." "It's fast food. It's throwaway entertainment; all of it."

Well that quote was him mocking people who say that games can't be art.

#42 Posted by mrfluke (5093 posts) -

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

Also throwing Destructoid under a bus for posting a game developers irrelevant twitter updates as news, with a hefty dose of snark, is entirely justified.

i fucking hate destructoid with a passion (especially jim sterling) so they get no sympathy from me either.

#43 Posted by Sidewalkchalk (122 posts) -
#44 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

@connerthekewlkid said:

@mrfluke said:

it was because of the whole quote where he said he thought japanese games sucks. came off very elitist

but he did apologize soon afterwards though, dude seems like he can be still pretentious

If you really wanna know why people are so upset look at his current ranting on twitter from the past few days.

the nintendo thing? he was joking around, doesnt excuse the attitude, but dude was joking around.

You mean the part where he blocked everyone who didn't agree with him on the subject and only repiled to people complimenting him? Then when he threw Destructoid under the bus after that?

Yea sure was a funny joke

and don't forgot his choice words of "Choke on my D*ck" and "Suck it Down"

He blocked dudes who were throwing hate over some shit he said on twitter. I woulda told them to fuck off too. Also throwing Destructoid under a bus for posting a game developers irrelevant twitter updates as news, with a hefty dose of snark, is entirely justified.

When also asked why he decided to port Fez to the PC after be quoted as saying "PCs are for spreadsheets" in a reddit AMA he simply replied "For profit".

#45 Edited by planetfunksquad (401 posts) -
#46 Edited by Milkman (16531 posts) -

http://www.twitch.tv/giantbomb/b/384113504

@38 mins. I truly hope Phil is just drunk, because his contributions are (if nothing else) rude and disruptive. "Fuck you, it's not art." "It's fast food. It's throwaway entertainment; all of it."

Fuck this egomaniacal piece of shit. Seriously. Fez was interesting, but it wasn't an amazing work of art. Listening to this asshole talk makes me sad that he succeeded in the gaming market. Fuckheads like himself deserve to rot in poverty and failure.

Seriously, dude? He was being sarcastic. He was impersonating people on the internet who don't think that games can be art and refuse to look at games as anything other than just popcorn entertainment.

Online
#47 Posted by kortex (444 posts) -

@superfusion: Absolutely. Being an artist is fucking hard and brutal at times but if you don't have this passion for your work, for every single piece (especially if it took 3 years in the making) then maybe, just maybe, you are not a good artist. Jonathan Blow isn't the first and won't be the last creative mind that is obsessed with his work and his legacy. Many bigger ones even went crazy about it.

#48 Edited by McGhee (6094 posts) -

http://www.twitch.tv/giantbomb/b/384113504

@38 mins. I truly hope Phil is just drunk, because his contributions are (if nothing else) rude and disruptive. "Fuck you, it's not art." "It's fast food. It's throwaway entertainment; all of it."

You realize he was being sarcastic here, right?

#49 Edited by ShadowConqueror (3050 posts) -

I don't get it either. They're both awesome. And Phil's right about Japanese games.

#50 Edited by Ares42 (2577 posts) -

He's an intense person with little to no filter. By being that way you're bound to piss off people from time to time.