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#1 Posted by Wolfgame (706 posts) -

Jeff's sarcasm is currently clashing with many die hard Shenmue fans. This video was recently uploaded from the PAX panel, which I missed live.

I think it's important to recognize this isn't a "real" call for Shenmue 3 to be completely abandoned. In the interest of showing people who are unfamiliar with the sense of humor Jeff has that we hold a wide variety of opinions on every side of the spectrum concerning Shenmue I wanted to open a topic so people could reflect and share their thoughts on this video and the Shenmue series. For myself, Shenmue is one of the most defining game experiences in my life. I don't demand that anyone agree with me, after all that special game for you could very well be Call of Duty, we all have different experiences with video games. Some of them resonate with us differently, let's celebrate these differences as a collective of gamers, not separate each other into group-able targets to piss on.

#2 Posted by Turtlebird95 (2360 posts) -

I probably would if Sega would hurry up and release HD versions on XBLA/PSN already.

#3 Edited by TruthTellah (8776 posts) -

Sure, Shenmue was interesting for the time. Really, this is just something to file alongside Jeff's hate for Yoshi's Island.

#4 Edited by Wampa1 (639 posts) -

It's a fascinating and unique game with one of the most fully realized "living" worlds out there. It's also really damn slow and incredibly self serious so I can completely understand why people don't like it. I feel like if it were released for the first time today people would probably be asking "is it really a game?" questions about it, because aside from the Virtua Fighter and racing segments it's pretty much just walking and discovering things.

#5 Edited by Vuud (1954 posts) -

DUDE! The character models had fingers, they're hands aren't just blocks with fingers painted on. I remember when that was a big deal. I think it was Splinter Cell where I first saw that and it wowed me.

@mb: boy you weren't kidding. The internet is serious business.

#6 Posted by MB (12257 posts) -

The comments on that video are priceless. People really love them some Shenmue....nice job, Jeff.

Moderator
#7 Posted by MooseyMcMan (10895 posts) -

I enjoy Shenmue. A lot of what I enjoy about Shenmue are the things about it that, let's say, aren't high in quality. Like, the voice acting! Man, that voice acting!

Moderator
#8 Edited by BlazeHedgehog (1091 posts) -

I love Shenmue but I also identify that it's not for everybody. Infact, it's probably not even for most people.

Shenmue is a game that had the balls to be boring on purpose. It's about waiting around outside of the barbershop because it's 6am and they aren't open yet. In some ways its reminiscent of a storytelling method Alfred Hitchcock used; Hitchcock subscribed to the notion that you start out very slowly on purpose, because that way the viewer gets to see how mundane the characters really are. Through that mundanity, you relate to them, because life itself is boring.

And Shenmue starts out VERY mundane. And I really, really love that, because it backs it up with a hard-to-match sense of place. Exploring that little sliver of 1985 Japan is super cool to me, and the things that game was trying to do at the time were revolutionary. Every NPC in that game is unique, and they all have daily routines. Games can do that now through character creators and whatnot, but somebody in Shenmue had to paint textures for 25-50+ unique faces and chart out where they were going to be in the city at any given moment.

Of course, in a gaming landscape where everything is still loud, in your face, and convenient to the point of holding your hand, it's easy to see why somebody would hate the game. It's not even that Shenmue is difficult, either, it's just tedious... but it's intentionally tedious. It forces you to stop and smell the flowers. I can dig that. Most people won't.

#9 Edited by Damodar (1342 posts) -

Yeah, I like Shenmue. I think the complaints that people have about it are totally legitimate, but it's still unique enough that I found it fascinating. It had a level of detail and intricacy and minutiae that I'd not seen in a game before. The way it tried to create a living breathing snapshot of our real world, but one literally foreign to me, being 1980's Japan, was crazy. Even the QTEs were novel, because they weren't something I'd seen before. It also helped that it looked really nice at the time. And the combat system was god damn Virtua Fighter. So I guess thinking about what really made me enjoy it, it was the whole host of new experiences in a game. Collecting capsule toys, playing old Sega arcade machines, operating a forklift, yeah, a lot of it was dumb, but it was crazy stuff no other game had ever shown me. It felt like a whole different beast as a game and that was exciting. Plus, your first forklift simulator is always the most special.

So yes, I do like Shenmue. I'm glad that it exists. I don't know that I'd want a new one though, as it couldn't recapture that sense of discovery or whatever that made the first one special to me.

#10 Posted by Animasta (14672 posts) -

That game (only talking about the first one) is kinda hot bullshit. The voice acting is uniformly terrible, it's boring as hell when you aren't fighting things, and honestly talking to people is not an interesting activity.

#11 Posted by Wolfgame (706 posts) -

I'm glad I can find this funny, Shenmue is probably the biggest franchise I would self identify as a "fan boy" of. As Jeff brought up in the video, it did take a collection of ideas and present them in a way that hadn't been done before. I agree completely, but to me that makes the game remarkable. I think most Shenmue fans are used to being the butt of the joke, mainly because we have heard these type of things many times before.

#12 Posted by BatesC (5 posts) -

Feel like this game is having an identity crisis between some sites considering it one of the best releases of all time and others relating it as one of the worst

#13 Posted by Dr_Monocle (99 posts) -

I really do love me some Shenmue. It's one of those games (I haven't played the second. My Xbox crapped out on me before I could get it) that I'll always wax nostalgic about for a good 10 minutes straight. And yeah, I would totally be up for a 3rd one. Even if they didn't refine it all that much, nostalgia would carry it for me. All that being said, I totally get where its detractors are coming from and I think that video is hilarious.

#14 Posted by oraknabo (1457 posts) -

Jeff just seems to hate Shenmue for not being a 100% perfect game. Maybe people go overboard calling it one of the best games ever made, but no game is as perfect as Jeff wants Shenmue to be. Why can't we just accept it as a grand experiment that produced something unique enough that people would like to see the vision realized no matter how flawed it is.

I love Shenmue for what it is, just like I love an ambitious mess like Trespasser:Jurassic Park and a baffling enigma like Pathologic. Sometimes I don't care if a game is any good if it's really ambitious.

#15 Edited by Elyk247 (366 posts) -

The ideas around Shenmue are fantastic, it's just the execution that's a little lackluster. But I do understand where Jeff is coming from. People who like Shenmue (myself included) are a bit delusional in thinking the game is better than it really is. The game seems like it's really grandiose at first, but man does that idea fizz out when you have to wait days for the next story beat to present itself.

#16 Posted by Stete (731 posts) -

I haven't played Shenmue 1 because I didn't own a Dreamcast but I loved Shenmue II on XBOX. With the exception of the ball busting final QTE of the final boss and the horrible voice acting, there wasn't any part which I didn't enjoy. The attention to detail was insane at that time, the characters were interesting and the combat system was tight. However as all ambitious games, there are some annoying bits which their degree of annoyance varies to person to person. Many people will find the slow pace, lack of fast travel and the bit where you have to make some money annoying (like many found out the stalking bits in the Assasin's Creed series, the drive to mission bits in GTA and the amount of non interactive moments in Metal Gear Solid games). So in short, I had a great time when I played it back in the day, but I also fully understand that some people had an utter shitty time playing it as well.

#17 Posted by Veektarius (4769 posts) -

If you have a special fondness for any game from the late 90s or early 00s, you basically have to be able to handle Jeff shitting on your adolescence or this probably isn't the site for you. He's a bit older and just didn't experience those games in the same way many of us did, and add to that his tendency to be extremely intolerant of clunky gameplay... well. In my mind it's all worth it of course.

But not for Shenmue. I never even played that game.

#18 Posted by TheKing (828 posts) -

I love Shenmue, I consider it one of my all time favorite games. But I also understand that it's not a game for everyone. That being said I don't take what Jeff says personal or serious. I look at it as if he is putting on an act, like Stephen Colbert or a circus clown.

#19 Posted by jaycrockett (441 posts) -

I really really loved Shenmue on the Dreamcast, but it was pretty bizarre. I have just never seen anything like it. Don't really have any desire for any more of it.

Really by definition, you can't really have something unique again. A remake or sequel just isn't going to hit you the same way. If you want another experience like Shenmue, it's going to have to be unlike Shenmue.

#20 Posted by ghostyTrickster (290 posts) -

Shenmue and Shenmue 2 are two of my favorite games of all times (but I will say the same for basically any of my Dreamcast library.)

I'm not actively calling out for Shenmue 3 because I'm not a crazy person, but I secretly still yearn for it (just like I still yearn for another Seaman.)

#21 Edited by The_Ruiner (1040 posts) -

It's an incredibly ambitious, poorly paced, horrendously controlling game, with enough charm to drown out it's many flaws.

#22 Edited by Wolfgame (706 posts) -

@veektarius: True, but think about how the games industry would be different. I don't believe that Deadly Premonition would have been the same type of game if not for Shenmue. The influences are undeniable. Even if someone isn't a fan of every concept of Shenmue, we have to at least acknowledge it paved the way ahead of its time for many game design elements to be built on top of with that refinement that Jeff is alluding too. Moving the games industry forward isn't always a glamorous effort, sometimes being the first to implement ideas can be clunky. People talk about the games industry dying, that will happen if we convince developers they should be scared of innovating.

#23 Edited by CornBREDX (5096 posts) -

I have held the opinion Jeff gave of the franchise.

I get why people have reverence for it, but I never thought there was anything interesting about Shenmue.

#24 Posted by eskimo (475 posts) -

I like Shenmue and the idea of another one, but I'm not going to deny it - that was pretty funny.

#25 Edited by BoOzak (906 posts) -

I like Shenmue. But I also like MGS, Yakuza and other games that are apparently terrible because they blend genres and try new things.

#26 Posted by Thiago123 (383 posts) -

I think part of the love of Shenmue is that it represented a great leap from what was available for consoles at the time. It gets lumped in my brain with other fantastic Dreamcast titles that show why the console died a premature death. I can recognize that this is mostly nostalgia, and the game probably hasn't aged as well as I think - I haven't played it in like 12 years. I would still like to see a Shenmue 3, but would also like to first see re-releases of 1 & 2 on XBLA or whatever, something more accessible than having to dig up my Dreamcast and discs from storage, and hope they still work..

#27 Posted by Veektarius (4769 posts) -

@wolfgame: That's an interesting argument, but I have my doubts. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Shenmue is basically an attempt to simulate reality in terms of the passage of time, the interrelationships of characters and interactiveness of the environment, while simultaneously attempting to tell a mature story on par with what you might see in an actual crime drama. If this is correct, then Shenmue is trying to do something totally obvious - if it hadn't, then someone else would have done so. The fact that it came first doesn't automatically make it influential, particularly since the particular ways it went about doing it didn't really catch on compared to, say, Grand Theft Auto II.

#28 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11621 posts) -

Shenmue is one of those games that I don't think I would understand at all if I came into contact with it today. All I know is that you drive a forklift and are looking for some sailors.

#29 Edited by yates (382 posts) -

I enjoyed the first Shenmue at the time, it had some interesting ideas and there wasn't anything else quite like it.

I most certainly would not be upset if Shenmue 3 never came to fruition though. I couldn't even get through the second game as it bored me to tears

#30 Posted by leebmx (2238 posts) -

I never played Shenmue at the time, but I really like the sound of it. Would there be any point seeking it out to play now, or would it be unplayable by today's standards?

#31 Posted by johncallahan (557 posts) -

I like and am looking for sailors. That's all I remember or care to remember about that series.

#32 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11621 posts) -

@mb: Oh wow. Yep. I'm just going to share this little gem for people who don't want to check out the comments themselves.

Have any idea what Joff Burstmann from Giant Bone was going on about?

Just a desperate, vain attempt to come across like Seth Mcfarlane, but the result is Such Anarsepain.

Not sure as to why he's so angry about the game, i wasn't aware walruses could use forklift controls anyway...

The game he said was for assholes, take the forklift element out, it would be right up his street.

Seriously everyone can like or dislike any game and have their own opinion, it's a free world. But when you slag off a work of genius such as Shenmue be prepared to have your reputation and your enjoyment of the social networks, stripped from you. We as a campaign and a fan base will not be mocked by a pathetic, little attention seekers like this worthless excuse of a man.

We don't take s*** from anyone, certainly not a lame excuse for a game journalist like Burstmann.

Credit to you Ziming for uploading, but we're giving credit and publicity to this guy when we should be giving it to Gio Corsi.

Suzuki has more talent in this finger than this weasel has in his entire body. I would love to see what games this Burstmann guy actually likes, so we could put him in his place.

He would be wise to put up and shut the f*** up, before someone does it for him.

Believe me, i would be happy to...

#33 Edited by 71Ranchero (2737 posts) -

I love Shenmue. I think people get confused and think its an action game when its really just a somewhat open world adventure game.

#34 Edited by Glottery (1218 posts) -

@arbitrarywater said:

@mb: Oh wow. Yep. I'm just going to share this little gem for people who don't want to check out the comments themselves.

Have any idea what Joff Burstmann from Giant Bone was going on about?

Just a desperate, vain attempt to come across like Seth Mcfarlane, but the result is Such Anarsepain.

Not sure as to why he's so angry about the game, i wasn't aware walruses could use forklift controls anyway...

The game he said was for assholes, take the forklift element out, it would be right up his street.

Seriously everyone can like or dislike any game and have their own opinion, it's a free world. But when you slag off a work of genius such as Shenmue be prepared to have your reputation and your enjoyment of the social networks, stripped from you. We as a campaign and a fan base will not be mocked by a pathetic, little attention seekers like this worthless excuse of a man.

We don't take s*** from anyone, certainly not a lame excuse for a game journalist like Burstmann.

Credit to you Ziming for uploading, but we're giving credit and publicity to this guy when we should be giving it to Gio Corsi.

Suzuki has more talent in this finger than this weasel has in his entire body. I would love to see what games this Burstmann guy actually likes, so we could put him in his place.

He would be wise to put up and shut the f*** up, before someone does it for him.

Believe me, i would be happy to...

Man, that's..eh...that's quite something. Guess we'll have to find a replacement for Jeff now, since he'll likely get fired from GB for this blasphemy? I bet they have connections to do that!

#35 Posted by pause422 (6179 posts) -

The more people that get mad just cuz someone else doesn't like their game the better, and the funnier. Its such a stupid thing that no one needs to do. Those people deserve to be mad cuz they're idiots.

#36 Edited by Fuku_san_ing_Sim_ula_tor (1 posts) -

Jeff hates Shenmue because his expectations were to meet the full of adrenaline quick burst perfect in every sense game in Shenmue...

Yu Suzuki could make Shenmue "perfect", if he wanted to, but he didn't, for a reason. Why? Suzuki Yu speaks for himself (translated):

Yu Suzuki: In the design of video games, there are many taboos that no one transgresses. But, if there are taboos, it's that there are good reasons. If we can eliminate certain, we could maybe pass over a taboo. If we don't do this work, the video game will never progress (improve).

For example, in an RPG, we indicate to the player what he must do gradually, for that he follow the course of a story wrote in advance. We impose him his goals and we fixed him his motivations. We guide him in a strict way in the sequence of a story (scenario).

The big difference of Shenmue, is to have given a true freedom to the players. He can put aside the script and do something else. He can spend all his time in the arcade or go to the slot machines, as he wants.

From the very beginning, just with that, they told me that my game will not sell. But we went even further!

Traditionally (at that time), we don't put the player in an environment as vast as that.

(Interviewer: Whereas, on the contrary, Shenmue and especially Shenmue II, immerses the players in an incredibly vast universe and living world. Yet, we never feel lost, because it is possible for Ryo to ask his way at any time, by discussing with all the characters.)

Yu Suzuki: And, finally, after Shenmue, we have seen to happen a lot of games that took up a lot of our ideas.

The director of a game must have a strong and clear vision of what he wants. And, for the development, he should try to not go out of his way, by listening to the opinions of others.

The are probably many things that he would do better in another way, than that chosen by the director.

But, if we listen everyone, and correct everything, you end up with a game that looks like any other.

A rose is beautiful but, if the spines doesn't satisfy us, and so we decided to remove them, this will be then only a carnation.

We care a lot. If it is for the players, then it must be for every kind of player, not just one group of them. Shenmue is a mentally calming game, and we need that experience, it fulfills our gaming needs, that's why we love that special in the core design game.

And, as Robin Hunicke said:

Our culture is one that prides itself on the immediacy of everything, from hamburgers to information. That expectation and hunger for feedback right now causes challenges for game designers who want to encourage players to slow down, think, and feel emotions that are deeper -- or at least different -- than quick adrenaline shots.

#SaveShenmue

#37 Edited by yakov456 (1905 posts) -

Love both games but especially the first. In a pre GTA3 world it really captivated me. The music, atmosphere, all the little details. Usually I'll do a play through once a year. Even made a trip to Yokosuka on my first trip to Japan. I love Jeff's openness and found his opinions on the series entertaining.

#38 Posted by Yummylee (21498 posts) -

@the_ruiner said:

It's an incredibly ambitious, poorly paced, horrendously controlling game, with enough charm to drown out it's many flaws.

The Deadly Premonition of its day.

#39 Posted by Wampa1 (639 posts) -

@yakov456: How did you find Yokosuka? was it a surreal experience or had it changed too much in the decades since the game is set?

Kinda love that everyone who has stated they enjoy the game at this point has come off as the polar opposite of some of those comments on youtube. I think every post has come with a "but yeah, it's got glaring flaws and it's just an opinion" Can't blame Jeff for rilling up those types of fans, just too easy.

#40 Edited by Random45 (1132 posts) -

Man, I remember playing this game ALL of the time at my friend's house - we didn't even really play the damn game, we'd just go to the arcade IN the game and play there instead, haha!

I did eventually beat it though, then I got the second game and beat that too. Man... I'm hugely nostalgic about this series, but I know if I played it again today it probably wouldn't live up to what I remember. So instead of pulling a Sonic Adventure 2 and making me come to the horrendous realization that the game wasn't any good, I'll just not play it again! That way I'll always remember it being good!

@mb: Oh wow. Yep. I'm just going to share this little gem for people who don't want to check out the comments themselves.

Have any idea what Joff Burstmann from Giant Bone was going on about?

Just a desperate, vain attempt to come across like Seth Mcfarlane, but the result is Such Anarsepain.

Not sure as to why he's so angry about the game, i wasn't aware walruses could use forklift controls anyway...

The game he said was for assholes, take the forklift element out, it would be right up his street.

Seriously everyone can like or dislike any game and have their own opinion, it's a free world. But when you slag off a work of genius such as Shenmue be prepared to have your reputation and your enjoyment of the social networks, stripped from you. We as a campaign and a fan base will not be mocked by a pathetic, little attention seekers like this worthless excuse of a man.

We don't take s*** from anyone, certainly not a lame excuse for a game journalist like Burstmann.

Credit to you Ziming for uploading, but we're giving credit and publicity to this guy when we should be giving it to Gio Corsi.

Suzuki has more talent in this finger than this weasel has in his entire body. I would love to see what games this Burstmann guy actually likes, so we could put him in his place.

He would be wise to put up and shut the f*** up, before someone does it for him.

Believe me, i would be happy to...

Damn, some people are just nuts. How can anyone get this upset over someone's opinion on the game?

#41 Edited by AMyggen (2829 posts) -

First of all, the comments on that video are fantastic. All of Jeff's rants on Youtube have some good fanboy shit in the comment section, but this is on another level of crazy. The crazies really come out every time someone talks shit about Shenmue, and it stirs up a passion in people like few other game franchises.

That said, I never cared for Shenmue. It's been a good while since I played it, but it was always a pretty bad game with a lot of ambition and new ideas. The story never engaged me, the voice acting was hooooorrrrrible and it's one of the worst controlling game I've played. I respect the ambition, but that's as far as I'll go.

Online
#42 Posted by Sanj (2370 posts) -

Oh gawd, reading those Youtube comments...

#43 Posted by Milkman (16647 posts) -

I'd like to present to you all the best YouTube comments of that video:

Have any idea what Joff Burstmann from Giant Bone was going on about?

Just a desperate, vain attempt to come across like Seth Mcfarlane, but the result is Such Anarsepain.

Not sure as to why he's so angry about the game, i wasn't aware walruses could use forklift controls anyway...

The game he said was for assholes, take the forklift element out and it would be right up his street.

Seriously everyone can like or dislike any game and have their own opinion, it's a free world. But when you slag off a work of genius such as Shenmue, be prepared to have your reputation and your enjoyment of the social networks, stripped from you.

We as a campaign and a fan base will not be mocked by pathetic, little attention seekers like this worthless moron.

Credit to you Ziming for uploading, but we're giving credit and publicity to this guy when we should be giving it to Gio Corsi. This only hinders us, highlighting Gio Corsi would actually help us.

Suzuki has more talent in his little finger than this Burstmann weasel has in his entire body. I would love to see what games this Burstmann guy actually likes, so we could put him in his place.

I guess he probably has as an addiction to Burger King Hero...

Shenmue500k
I'm all up for a good Shenmue joke. Lord knows there are a lot of them. But Gerstmann isn't funny. He's always tries to be, and he always fails. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, sure. And I really don't care if he doesn't like Shenmue. But leave comedy to the comedians, Jeff.3amGameVids
Stupid ass motha fucker preffers gay ass same over and over first person shooters.drowsy818

So, if it's a forklift simulator for assholes, it must be his favorite game.

The Pribyl Productions

Last one is a legitimately sick burn. Shenmue sucks shit, by the way.

#44 Posted by Yummylee (21498 posts) -

What is this, 2004? How could anyone honestly be surprised at the quality of comments to be found on youtube? I mean, seriously.

#45 Posted by Brendan (7753 posts) -

The Shenmue/Jeff comments are right up there with those Metal Gear/Patrick comments.

#46 Edited by Jimbo (9799 posts) -

Yeah I like it too. Thinking about it reminds me of the good old days when occasionally some games would be released.

#47 Posted by yakov456 (1905 posts) -

@wampa1: It's got a bit of the flavor from the game. There is indeed a Dobuita Street with various shops, even jacket ones like the game. When you get off at the train station you immediately see the US warships docked at the wharf nearby. It's a bit run down around the waterfront unfortunately. There was a little park area by the water, sat on a bench and fired up the Shenmue theme song on the ipod, looked out into the bay and had a nerd moment.

These are old and the camera was a piece of crap. Boats harbored, jacket shop on Dobuita street and a nifty banner too.

#48 Posted by shengoro86 (3 posts) -

As an admin of the Shenmue Community, I can say that I enjoy Jeff as a fellow person.

However, dismissing the entire franchise as a forklift simulator for assholes just makes him sound like a child.

Even for games I dislike personally, I still respect the people who enjoy it.

#49 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (2679 posts) -

There are thousands of changes and improvements to Shenmue that I would make, but yeah I like it as a game. Its is one of the few 'set in' the present day RPGs that is interesting and not trying to be something else or turned into a fantasy. It is about a young man trying to get to the bottom of his father death....and grow up too. But, OMG would I make hundreds of changes and improvements to the basic concept.

#50 Posted by TechnoSyndrome (840 posts) -

Shenmue has an awful story with awful characters and the mundane nature of the gameplay isn't interesting nowadays. Can't speak for Shenmue II, but I can't imagine it's any better.

That being said I'm all for Shenmue III. Let people finish the story.