GRIN was a Swedish game development studio, best known for their work on the PC versions of the Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter series and the two new Bionic Commando games. GRIN closed their doors August 12th, 2009.
Aftonbladet is kinda notorious for sensationalizing stories as well. They're sorta the Fox News of Sweden.
http://www.thelocal.se/21710/20090827/ I'm not saying that this article is something completely made up but I take pretty much EVERYTHING Afonbladet says with a HUGE grain of salt. All my experience really comes from them and Sports (Hockey) where they really lie out their asses.
oh... right. Do they often have a bi-monthly video games are bad for our society segment. Cos' I'm from the UK and the news dont get away with is as much as fox because some of us write letters of complaint to the news if any bullshit is smelt.
No. They write a shitload about the royal family's personal lives and they don't really care about sources. They're more like a leftist Fox News in paper form.
Do they often have a bi-monthly video games are bad for our society segment?
Nah, I wouldn't say that. Their gaming section is pretty well educated in the matter. Sure, sometimes some other bloke in the newspaper writes a shitty article about how "games are bad", but the consistent staff in the gaming part of the newspaper doesn't take that bullshit.
@nintendoeats: Are you saying that Swedish journalists are biased? :D Certainly, yes, they've only listened to the former owner at Grin's story, but I don't think we'll be hearing anything from Square Enix regarding this matter.
@nintendoeats: Are you saying that Swedish journalists are biased? :D Certainly, yes, they've only listened to the former owner at Grin's story, but I don't think we'll be hearing anything from Square Enix regarding this matter.
And that hardly makes for a thorough investigation.
@nintendoeats: Are you saying that Swedish journalists are biased? :D Certainly, yes, they've only listened to the former owner at Grin's story, but I don't think we'll be hearing anything from Square Enix regarding this matter.
"We have one side of the story" "Where is the other side?" "Well that would have taken actual work, this was easy." "Oh, ok. It's not like people demand that journalists actually investigate their stories these days."
See what I'm trying to say? Nothing against Swedes, just the poor state of modern journalism.
@nintendoeats: Yeah, that's totally true :) I had a friend on Facebook who works on DICE commenting on the story, and he was pretty much saying the same thing as you. And I really don't think we'll ever know what actually happened. It's nice to hear something anyway. And if I should be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if this story was true for some reason.
@Hampe: Sure, it probably is. But context can change everything. For example, the FFXII thing. It's possible that they didn't look at the screenshot, or it's possible that the note was translated poorly and Square was either saying "That's a game we already made dipshit" or "That looks like a frigging PS2 game dipshit." Or maybe the note was translated correctly and Square didn't feel the need to validate trolling from a company that they already had a poor relationship with.
This story could be 100% accurate, and that detail could still be completely wrong. For another example, look a the story about the autistic kid's gamerscore about a month back. When Microsoft actually showed the evidence of cheating, everyone had to backpedal real fast.
EDIT: You may note that I am very passionate about this subject.
@nintendoeats: Yeah. I totally understand your point. And that's probably the most common thing today when it comes to checking your sources. It's probably a whole lot of thinking from the writers side that this would be his big scoop (in fact, I heard from a friend that had talked to him in context to Swedish event DreamHack that he had said that he had "a big scoop coming up").
@HellBrendy: I've linked the source in the opening post.
While Square Enix certainly has their fair share of the blame this is a very one-sided account of the situation. GRIN did make a series of badgames, from a critical perspective, so it's not like they had no involvement in their own downfall.
Yeah but it has nothing to do with the critical perspective since where talking money here. Those games still could have sold enough to keep the company going.
I'm quite certain all those games sold poorly. If a company keeps making bad games it's not unreasonable to think that's going to effect their bottom line.
Those games mentioned sold a total of 3.09 million copies, according to vgcharts (Hate to use that as a source but it's the best we've got). Sounds pretty dire for games that were developed and marketed as AAA titles. Square had little part in the company going under.
I've seen different lower numbers but if we use yours 3.09 million copies sold is not great but the company wouldn't have gone under it they sold that amount. However, had a company said they were going to pay large amounts of money for development of a costly game and then just never paid the money I could see how that would sink a company. I understand a lot of people love SE because they used to make great games but any way you look at it, even if it didn't totally sink the company, it's is a dick move.
True. I think it's more that they compounded each other. Had Bionic Commando sold to expectations they would have had ample time and money to tailor Fortress to square's specifications and get that publishing money. It was a series of unexpectedly catastrophic events that put them under.
Square is very protective of their brands and Fortress was very clearly not fitting the bill. Though the screenshot thing shows that GRIN's case was not being handled with the weight it should have been at a certain point.
Perhaps SE handled the situation poorly, but I think it is reasonable for them to back away from GRIN after they made a series of mediocre games. While some people might not love FFXIII, myself included, it is a flagship product for SE and an above average JRPG. Even if those mediocre GRIN games sold well, which I don't think they did, SE has to worry about the reputation of FF. At this point slapping FF## on something will make it a big seller, but that's only because past numbered FF games have been pretty good. If the game GRIN was making was mediocre, it could severely damage the franchise and that is something SE simply cannot have.
This reminds of the (rumoured) way Obisidian was treated by Sega during the development of Alpha Protocol. This can't bode well for Dungeon Siege III...
FF is done, square simply can't catch up with the times, as do many other japanese devs.
I bet they didn't agree with GRIN's FF vision because it didn't had annoying grown women acting like 12 year olds, androgynous guys, stupid hairs and tedious combat.
I don't know, something else is going on here. If GRIN was owed money and had a contract in place with Square they should have gotten paid. Or taken them to court. Neither seems to have happened. I wonder what the real story is?
I don't know, something else is going on here. If GRIN was owed money and had a contract in place with Square they should have gotten paid. Or taken them to court. Neither seems to have happened. I wonder what the real story is?
If Grin had a legal leg to stand on, they should have been able to take Square Enix to court unless they either didn't have the money to do so or there's something important I don't know about Swedish business law, which is quite possible since I know next to nothing about Swedish law in general. That being said, for this information to only come out now, long after the fact in a one-sided article seems suspicious.
I don't know, something else is going on here. If GRIN was owed money and had a contract in place with Square they should have gotten paid. Or taken them to court. Neither seems to have happened. I wonder what the real story is?
If Grin had a legal leg to stand on, they should have been able to take Square Enix to court unless they either didn't have the money to do so or there's something important I don't know about Swedish business law, which is quite possible since I know next to nothing about Swedish law in general. That being said, for this information to only come out now, long after the fact in a one-sided article seems suspicious.
The article clearly states that Bosse and Ulf didn't want to sue due to it being too risky and them not being able to afford it.
The article says; "The brothers thought about sueing the distributor, but thought that that process would maybe would make the situation worse rather then better."
While Square Enix certainly has their fair share of the blame this is a very one-sided account of the situation. GRIN did make a series of badgames, from a critical perspective, so it's not like they had no involvement in their own downfall.
I like how you call Bionic Commando a bad game and then link to Jeff's 4 star review. And I'd hardly call a 70 on metacritic bad. At worst it's an okay game.
This one makes me sad to look at. Mostly because I couldn't be there to sign it myself, since I had to move after I had to leave the company. Had a great time there.
Damn, you worked there? If you don't mind me asking, what was your job?
come to think of it, isn't this.. old news? didn't Grin close down 2 years ago ?
@Axxol said:
@PhatSeeJay Damn, you worked there? If you don't mind me asking, what was your job?
Phat CJ is serious business! The dude is applying to work at DICE and i hope he gets the job :) he's gonna hold up the designers at gun point and force them to make an authentic game ^^
Just read the story over at Kotaku. It feels a little one sided, and while they might have had some problems dealing with Square, I'd doubt they were of this magnitude. I'll agree with others in saying lukewarm sales of three big titles in a row probably didn't help the studio either.
This was an amazing read. This part pretty much sums up how messed up the whole situation was:
One day, GRIN had enough. So they sent Square Enix a screenshot from their own game Final Fantasy XII to test them. The response they got was "that doesn't look like a game in Final Fantasy's style." That's when they knew that whatever they did, Square Enix wouldn't back them up on this.
Simply nonsense. Anyways, can't wait to see what they have in store for us at E3.
I think the real tragedy is just how totally fucked Eastern games are. They REFUSE to get out of their comfort zone, and they refuse to move on and evolve, and they just take down great people with them. The thing that potentially could have stopped FF from drifting out of focus and becoming a bit of a running joke, and they were just like "Nah, we think we do well enough with total trite, overdone, shit."
@Axxol: Yes I did. Assisting game designer. Was fresh out of school and worked there for two years. Had a great time. @Ahmad_Metallic: Yeah, I didn't get it. Some other time, perhaps. @xyzygy: Thank you. I had a lot of fun being a part of the production of that game.
This was an amazing read. This part pretty much sums up how messed up the whole situation was:
One day, GRIN had enough. So they sent Square Enix a screenshot from their own game Final Fantasy XII to test them. The response they got was "that doesn't look like a game in Final Fantasy's style." That's when they knew that whatever they did, Square Enix wouldn't back them up on this.
Simply nonsense. Anyways, can't wait to see what they have in store for us at E3.
I think the real tragedy is just how totally fucked Eastern games are. They REFUSE to get out of their comfort zone, and they refuse to move on and evolve, and they just take down great people with them. The thing that potentially could have stopped FF from drifting out of focus and becoming a bit of a running joke, and they were just like "Nah, we think we do well enough with total trite, overdone, shit."
What does eastern game development have to do with this conversation? This is about a publisher possibly screwing over a developer, which is not a concept unique to culture or geography.
This was an amazing read. This part pretty much sums up how messed up the whole situation was:
One day, GRIN had enough. So they sent Square Enix a screenshot from their own game Final Fantasy XII to test them. The response they got was "that doesn't look like a game in Final Fantasy's style." That's when they knew that whatever they did, Square Enix wouldn't back them up on this.
Simply nonsense. Anyways, can't wait to see what they have in store for us at E3.
I think the real tragedy is just how totally fucked Eastern games are. They REFUSE to get out of their comfort zone, and they refuse to move on and evolve, and they just take down great people with them. The thing that potentially could have stopped FF from drifting out of focus and becoming a bit of a running joke, and they were just like "Nah, we think we do well enough with total trite, overdone, shit."
What does eastern game development have to do with this conversation? This is about a publisher possibly screwing over a developer, which is not a concept unique to culture or geography.
Eastern games are falling further and further behind. While a few developers are working to make more "western" games, and move on from the old way of games, they continue to struggle to put out successes. Just look at the latest Final Fantasy games. One is a complete failure, and one is a mediocre experience that ultimately is far too drawn out, and looks identical to every FF ever. And even from the business side of things, there are plenty of examples of Eastern publishers and developers making poor choices. The Eastern market is getting stale, and uninspired, and when their franchise of some million and a half games, not including re-releases, is clearly in need of new life, what is their issue? It's not enough like the others. You can't just buy up western developers and say you have moved forward, because ultimately companies like SE are just publishing the same games with the same issues over and over. I never said "no one but eastern folk do this!" and it's a little silly of you to act as if I did. I know they have, in fact pretty much this exact situation has occurred with western publishers.
@MordeaniisChaos: FFXIII was not a complete failure, as it sold well, nor was FFXII mediocre, because that's pure subjective opinion and not something that everyone agrees with. If you care to expound on these points in an effort to prove me wrong, be my guest, but I think you'll find it difficult to bring concrete evidence.
The truth is, both sides of the Pacific are in ruts. Over there, there hasn't been a project that's really set the world on fire to the extent that past Japanese games have. Over here, developers are either:
1. Making Call of Duty. 2. Making FPS games that look and play like Call of Duty. 3. Making games with moral choice systems that became antiquated ten years ago. 4. Filling the shelves with gritty reboots. 5. Military shooters. 6. Did I mention Call of Duty?
I've had conversations with a Bungie employee who largely feels the same way, honestly. He hates the way that western game development has stagnated because so many companies just wants to make military shooters these days. And this is coming from a guy that works at the developer responsible for Halo. My point being, if you think Japanese game development has stagnated, try looking at what western game developers have been outputting for a while.
I submitted the tip about the story to Kotaku (they're thanking an Hampus in the end of the article aka me). Since they seem to have translated via Google, I think it's better to read my translation since Google always fucks up stuff.
@MordeaniisChaos: The truth is, both sides of the Pacific are in ruts. Over there, there hasn't been a project that's really set the world on fire to the extent that past Japanese games have. Over here, developers are either: 1. Making Call of Duty. 2. Making FPS games that look and play like Call of Duty. 3. Making games with moral choice systems that became antiquated ten years ago. 4. Filling the shelves with gritty reboots. 5. Military shooters. 6. Did I mention Call of Duty? I've had conversations with a Bungie employee who largely feels the same way, honestly. He hates the way that western game development has stagnated because so many companies just wants to make military shooters these days. And this is coming from a guy that works at the developer responsible for Halo. My point being, if you think Japanese game development has stagnated, try looking at what western game developers have been outputting for a while.
You have essentially hit the nail on the head. People are ready to dismiss Eastern videogame development culture because they don't play exactly like their Western counterparts, but nobody looks at how dead-in-a-ditch Western videogame development culture is now. Yes, there are some big companies in Japan that fuck things up that make everybody give puzzled looks, (mainly dealing with anything regarding online play), but that stuff gets fucked up from time to time on this side, too. You can't look at fucking Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 and be genuinely excited about the state of Western videogame development. At least the Japanese are willing to make videogames that push some boundaries and amp up the crazy in a fun and rewarding way, even if it doesn't work out.
To further prove that point, Vanquish and God Hand are two of the most rewarding and exciting videogame experiences I've had that trump anything I've played from Western development studios in the past seven or eight years.
1. Works on multiple projects simultaneously 2. Release 3 mediocre (at best) games in a row. 3. Continue working for almost half a year on a product while the investor is refusing to pay for said product.
Thanks for taking the time to translate the article. It was a good read.
From that story, I think it is unfair to blame Square-Enix for the GRIN bankruptcy. There were a lot of factors that lead to this end result. The failures of Bionic Commando and Terminator Salvation scared publishers. Those two big games, especially Bionic Commando, was GRIN's opportunity and they blew it. Square-Enix is a smart company that created a contract with GRIN that had an easy out. It wasn't a hard contract and the money stipulated in the contract was apparently not guaranteed so GRIN had no claim to the $16.5 million. It all goes back to the fact that the two big budget games GRIN made were terrible disappointments financially and critically. I don't blame Square-Enix or any other publisher for not wanting to publisher any more GRIN developed games. It sucks that GRIN expected Square-Enix to honor that soft-contract but they should have known better. Granted, I'm saying this after the fact but if you're running a business and are trying to coordinate a deal with another company nothing should be taken for granted or be expected. I personally don't think GRIN has anyone to blame for their bankruptcy but themselves.
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