BioWare's Defense Of Mass Effect 3 Ending Was Poor

#1 Posted by Mike76x (558 posts) -

I'm posting this because this it the first professional article I've seen that actually understands the outrage over the Mass Effect 3 ending.

Yes there are lots of posts complaining about the ending, and lots of articles from professionals that just aren't listening to the what the fans are saying.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mirror-Edge-Writer-BioWare-Defense-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-Was-Poor-41023.html

Mirror's Edge Writer: BioWare's Defense Of Mass Effect 3 Ending Was Poor

The ending of Mass Effect 3 is proving to be a popular topic of conversation. In a new interview, Mirror's Edge and Heavenly Sword writer Rhianna Pratchett criticized BioWare's response to negative feedback about the game's ending.

"I've not played it yet, so I can't fully comment, although I have huge respect for BioWare's hard-working writers," Pratchett told ActionTrip. "However, I do think that maintaining the internal logic of a game's narrative is very important when you're dealing with such a story-heavy series as Mass Effect, especially when you're able to carry-over your character. Anything that breaks that and your players do have a right to be a little pissed.

"I found the 'We did it to get players talking' defense to be a poor excuse. You could fill the disc with images from LOLCats or tap-dancing Nazi nuns and it would get players talking."

Pratchett seems to be talking about ME3's Casey Hudson's response to criticism. Soon after the game's launch, he said that he was glad that the story inspired strong feelings among gamers.

"I didn’t want the game to be forgettable, and even right down to the sort of polarizing reaction that the ends have had with people–debating what the endings mean and what’s going to happen next, and what situation are the characters left in," Hudson said at the time. "That to me is part of what’s exciting about this story. There has always been a little bit of mystery there and a little bit of interpretation, and it’s a story that people can talk about after the fact."

As of late, though, BioWare has gotten a little more conciliatory. Last week BioWare co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka said that the development team is working on "game content initiatives" to provide fans with a more complete ending to ME3.

This is the important part:

"However, I do think that maintaining the internal logic of a game's narrative is very important when you're dealing with such a story-heavy series as Mass Effect, especially when you're able to carry-over your character. Anything that breaks that and your players do have a right to be a little pissed."

After reading article after article with gaming professionals talking about "entitled gamers" or the B.S. argument of changing "art", it's nice to see at least one professional gets it.

#2 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

#3 Posted by PokeIkzai (385 posts) -

Seriously. I don't care if it's a happy ending. I want an ending that fits with what Mass Effect is. No one seems to understand this.

#4 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

#5 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

I'm so fucking tired of hearing about the end of Mass Effect 3. Yes it was atrocious. Yes it made no goddamn sense. Yes you had no really effect on the ending. Everybody could die and reapers could tap dance on Earth, but if they'd made it compelling and/or understandable I'd be completely fine with it.

#6 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

#7 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4643 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

whatever. It had the part with the...um...the...well, let's see here...she jumped. Yeah. That was cool...yeah...then she did some more parkour stuff too. Oh, and her sister was a cop...had a badge...carried a gun...you know cop stuff. And Faith ran through the sewers...and well, she fought that big guy and he was all like...he was all like "ahhh noooo save me," but he died though. Don't forget about the...the....t-virus....no, wait, wrong game. Uhhhh...shit. What happened in the game again?

I love the actual game, but if my life was on the line to explain the story, I'd just ask to be shot and get it over with lol.

On a serious note though, I do think she has a point, but I do wish all this Mass Effect bullcrap would just go die in a fire.

#8 Posted by Hizang (8532 posts) -

I am really starting to hate the people who are complaining about the ending, what gives anybody the right to demand that the ending of a game that they didn't make change. But I will also say Mirrors Edge had a really bad story, although Heavenly Sword's was great.

#9 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

They both had shitty walk left, straight or right to get a different ending that doesn't care what else you did in the game. Each ending in both games does make sense in the story. If you don't like it vote with your dollars and don't buy the next Mass Effect Universe games(but we all know you will). You have no rights except to not buy the next game when bitching about the story content. The only say so you have is if the product is somehow defective(doesn't work, etc.).

#10 Posted by Sarnecki (693 posts) -

SERIOUSLY. Fuck the critics who pull out the "entitlement" thing to every fucking argument. .0001 percent of people are arguing for the ending to be replaced, talk to them about being entitled. The rest of us are just upset about how poorly it was told, and we have EVERY right to hate it without having to hear how entitled we are.

#11 Posted by 2HeadedNinja (1672 posts) -

@Sarnecki said:

SERIOUSLY. Fuck the critics who pull out the "entitlement" thing to every fucking argument. .0001 percent of people are arguing for the ending to be replaced, talk to them about being entitled. The rest of us are just upset about how poorly it was told, and we have EVERY right to hate it without having to hear how entitled we are.

I seconds that. What pisses me more off than the actual ending is how the games media handles the fan response. "People want a happy ending" ... "People think they are entitled to xxx" ... "People just don't understand the ending" ... Nothing of that even comes close to the core of the problem yet it's in almost every major article about the ME3-mess I saw.

#12 Posted by Jimbo (9872 posts) -
@ShadowSkill11 said:

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

They both had shitty walk left, straight or right to get a different ending that doesn't care what else you did in the game. Each ending in both games does make sense in the story. If you don't like it vote with your dollars and don't buy the next Mass Effect Universe games(but we all know you will). You have no rights except to not buy the next game when bitching about the story content. The only say so you have is if the product is somehow defective(doesn't work, etc.).

Does a defective narrative count?
 
"If you don't like it vote with your dollars and don't buy the next Mass Effect Universe games(but we all know you will)."   <-This argument is dumb.
#13 Posted by SlashDance (1828 posts) -

@Sarnecki said:

SERIOUSLY. Fuck the critics who pull out the "entitlement" thing to every fucking argument. .0001 percent of people are arguing for the ending to be replaced, talk to them about being entitled. The rest of us are just upset about how poorly it was told, and we have EVERY right to hate it without having to hear how entitled we are.

If you're just expressing your disappointment and not demanding a change and signing petitions and all that crap, then I don't believe anyone is saying you're entitled.

Anyway, maybe we should put all that behind us now ? Every new thread on the subject sounds more and more like a broken record.

#14 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

@Jimbo: Not unless something crashes or there are frequent spelling problems or something to that effect.

#15 Posted by selbie (1933 posts) -

Wow, I never realized Terry Pratchett's daughter wrote for games....I dun got schooled.

#16 Posted by Creamypies (4076 posts) -

Seriously? Jesus Christ people, give it a fucking rest.

You didn't like the ending, blah blah blah, anger... I get it. But just shut up about it once and for all... please.

#17 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

@ShadowSkill11 said:

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

They both had shitty walk left, straight or right to get a different ending that doesn't care what else you did in the game. Each ending in both games does make sense in the story. If you don't like it vote with your dollars and don't buy the next Mass Effect Universe games(but we all know you will). You have no rights except to not buy the next game when bitching about the story content. The only say so you have is if the product is somehow defective(doesn't work, etc.).

I'm not claiming to have rights, all I'm saying is their product was bad. Deus Ex's ending choices weren't brilliant either, but it's much less of a deal there (for one, it actually made sense). But it was serving as a prequel to events we already know the outcome for, ME3 was supposed to tie up everything that came before it.. and instead dodged every possible question, resolution and turned into some Matrix-esque high concept bullshit. How does that fit with the established narrative and how is it anything but a complete cop out?

If you think I'm going to buy any more Bioware games, or even any DLC (regardless of whether they fix the ending or not) you obviously don't know me very well. Feel free to check out my gamer profiles when they roll around, because I will absolutely not be a part of it. The fact this is your only defence of how poor it was, really says a lot.

#18 Posted by Ventilaator (1501 posts) -

MIrror's Edge is the only game ever where I skipped all the cutscenes and did not feel bad about it. The Heavenly Sword credit there is a saving grace, because that was alright.

#19 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

#20 Posted by Vorbis (2750 posts) -

I wish she would write more games, Overlord was pretty funny and you can see the humour runs in the family.

#21 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

They both had shitty walk left, straight or right to get a different ending that doesn't care what else you did in the game. Each ending in both games does make sense in the story. If you don't like it vote with your dollars and don't buy the next Mass Effect Universe games(but we all know you will). You have no rights except to not buy the next game when bitching about the story content. The only say so you have is if the product is somehow defective(doesn't work, etc.).

I'm not claiming to have rights, all I'm saying is their product was bad. Deus Ex's ending choices weren't brilliant either, but it's much less of a deal there (for one, it actually made sense). But it was serving as a prequel to events we already know the outcome for, ME3 was supposed to tie up everything that came before it.. and instead dodged every possible question, resolution and turned into some Matrix-esque high concept bullshit. How does that fit with the established narrative and how is it anything but a complete cop out?

If you think I'm going to buy any more Bioware games, or even any DLC (regardless of whether they fix the ending or not) you obviously don't know me very well. Feel free to check out my gamer profiles when they roll around, because I will absolutely not be a part of it. The fact this is your only defence of how poor it was, really says a lot.

Defense? Defense against what? Opinions are like assholes. You've got one and so do I. It's just your points don't make any sense when you apply simple logic to them. Does a 30+ hour game suddenly become terrible because you don't like the last 5-10 minutes? If I write a book that sells millions of copies and a vocal minority(gamers on internet forums are still minorities) start a letter writing campaign because I kill a favorite character at the end. Do I need to recall the book and re-release it with a new ending? If you choose to not play Mass Effect 4-6 that's cool with me since I don't know you or care about you in any way whatsoever. All I know is that Bioware still gets my money... except for Dragon Age 3. I'm not playing that unless I see some great reviews first. DA2 was a disappointment.

#22 Posted by probablytuna (3732 posts) -

I really don't care anymore.... What's done is done. Whatever changes they make can't undo what we've already experienced.

#23 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

@ShadowSkill11: Comparing a videogame to a book is stupid, that was the point from the begining. And evidently, you do care enough to make a sweeping statement about how I'll "buy their next game anyway". Have your opinion, but don't call others wrong for not agreeing and don't presume you know me. Thanks.

As for the actual game, I thought for the most part it was quite good. The ending however is bad enough, that has completely destroyed any desire I had to go back and play through the first two. It's such an obvious and ridiculously misguided marketing stunt, that it's just hard to care any more. I've said it thousands of times in other threads, and I'm really just sick of the whole debate now.. but this ending clearly only exists to drum up discussions of the game and was most likely never intended to be the proper ending, which is exactly why I won't be giving them any money for DLC.

#24 Posted by laserbolts (5331 posts) -

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It is mostly due to the amount of hype that was built up around the game and that people expected their choices to really matter in the end. I didn't really care about Deus Ex enough to get upset about the god awful ending that game had. Oh and I don't really care about the mass effect 3 ending that much either it is only a video game after all.

#25 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

It's getting to the point where I wish somebody would release a script to get rid of any Mass Effect related threads on these forums. Jesus fucking Christ.

#26 Posted by Veektarius (4922 posts) -

@joshthebear said:

I'm so fucking tired of hearing about the end of Mass Effect 3. Yes it was atrocious. Yes it made no goddamn sense. Yes you had no really effect on the ending. Everybody could die and reapers could tap dance on Earth, but if they'd made it compelling and/or understandable I'd be completely fine with it.

And...more to the point, they already listened, apparently agreed on some level, and say they're going to address it. So why do we need to keep freaking out? If they don't make it more coherent on the second attempt, then we can get angry again.

#27 Edited by Harkat (1104 posts) -

@PokeIkzai said:

Seriously. I don't care if it's a happy ending. I want an ending that fits with what Mass Effect is. No one seems to understand this.

Actually everyone seems to understand this and have a similar opinion. Everyone but the damn professionals, who think we're all crying because Shepard didn't power-punch the reaper while saying some cheesy pun and then proceed to make out with liara among a united crowd of cheering galactic races.

#28 Posted by StarvingGamer (8380 posts) -

@Mike76x said:

"I've not played it yet, so I can't fully comment"

Then shut the fuck up.

#29 Posted by TheHT (11526 posts) -

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

Not really. The endings to Deus Ex 1 and 2 all showed a hell of a lot more than the same movie (that doesn't even use in-game assets, it's just some archive footage), with different narration.

Deus Ex shows all of these things actually happening.

1. you give power back to the Illuminati, and discuss the road ahead with Morgan.

2. you blow up Area 51 and Tracer talks about the new Dark Age.

3. you unite with Helios and start towards a true direct democracy throughout the world.

The same goes for Deus Ex 2's endings, but, well, let's just not talk about Deus Ex 2.

The Mass Effect endings have all been brief. And the first two didn't have much meaningful variation, with the second having bigger choices than the first (specifically, dealing with the collector base). As such the third's ending is stylistically similar. It's brief, there are things you will always do, and the choice you make is much bigger than that of Mass Effect 2 (I suppose in particular could be viewed as a shift).

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#30 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4827 posts) -

I'm starting a new initiative on the GB forums: "Ban Mass Effect Threads" 
 
JOIN ME BRETHREN, FLAG THIS SHIT.

#31 Posted by GeneralZod37 (265 posts) -

I really want to make a post pointing out that people bitching about people bitching is as bad as the first set of people bitching, but it seems way too ironic. So instead, there is this.

#32 Posted by demonbear (1860 posts) -

I stopped at "I've not played it yet"

#33 Posted by zombie_bigdaddy (131 posts) -

Ok so I have to ask If so many of you are tired of this threads/reading about the ME3 ending, why do you keep clicking on this threads and commenting on them?

#34 Edited by pw2566ch (480 posts) -

These are quotes coming from most of the community and honestly, I pity these people.

  • "These entitled people need to shut the hell up"
  • "There is nothing wrong with the ending"
  • "I'm tired of hearing about the Mass Effect 3 ending"
  • "If you don't like the game, then don't buy it and shut up about it"

Honestly people, if we don't say anything about it and ignore it, then Bioware will continue to do what they do. We continue to bring this up because Bioware failed to take responsibility for it. Once Bioware takes responsibility for this mistake, then I will drop this and move on.

#35 Edited by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@mcderby4 said:

@phrosnite said:

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

Did you two actually read the post or you guys just comment on the headline which you also misread. Not once did she say the ending was poor but that Bioware's handling of the ending post launch was poor by excusing the ending because Casey Hudson wanted player to talk, and she's 100% right.

Mass Effect 3 ending looks like it was written by someone who thought they were Stanley Kubrick but ended up being M. Night Shyamalan.

#36 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

@mordukai said:

@mcderby4 said:

@phrosnite said:

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

Did you two actually read the post or you guys just comment on the headline which you also misread. Not once did she say the ending was poor but that Bioware's handling of the ending post launch was poor by excusing the ending because Casey Hudson wanted player to talk, and she's 100% right.

Mass Effect 3 ending looks like it was written by someone who thought they were Stanley Kubrick but ended up being M. Night Shyamalan.

A person who wrote that shitty Mirror's Edge story isn't allowed to speak. Bioware wanted people to talk about the game and thus selling more copies. Well mission fucking accomplished.

#37 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@mordukai said:

Mass Effect 3 ending looks like it was written by someone who thought they were Stanley Kubrick but ended up being M. Night Shyamalan.

This is the perfect summation of the ending right here.

#38 Posted by dr_mantas (1982 posts) -

Forget Mass Effect 3 for a second.

She's Pratchett's kid and writes video game scripts? How fucking awesome is that?

Also, the games she's credited in I remember liking, so that's great as well.

#39 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

@mordukai said:

@mcderby4 said:

@phrosnite said:

Mirror's Edge story was poor.

Did you two actually read the post or you guys just comment on the headline which you also misread. Not once did she say the ending was poor but that Bioware's handling of the ending post launch was poor by excusing the ending because Casey Hudson wanted player to talk, and she's 100% right.

Mass Effect 3 ending looks like it was written by someone who thought they were Stanley Kubrick but ended up being M. Night Shyamalan.

A person who wrote that shitty Mirror's Edge story isn't allowed to speak. Bioware wanted people to talk about the game and thus selling more copies. Well mission fucking accomplished.

She's a video game writer with many credential under her belt. She has every right to speak and criticize a company or game writer when they she sees them mishandle a situation like that. How many video game have you written? Yet I still see you commenting on it.

Again she did not criticize the story but Bioware's handling of the issue.

Seems to me your issue has more to do with fact that you didn't like Mirror's Edge and less with her commenting on this particular situating.

#40 Edited by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

@mordukai: I don't care. This whole ME3 thing is getting beyond ridiculous and if people don't stop posting "their thoughts" about this and that it will be never end. Just shut up and wait for the DLC. There are other things to be angry about, not some video game's ending.

Edit:

#41 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

@mordukai: I don't care. This whole ME3 thing is getting beyond ridiculous and if people don't stop posting "their thoughts" about this and that it will be never end. Just shut up and wait for the DLC. There are other things to be angry about, not some video game's ending.

Edit:

I'm not angry, you are. In fact your comments make as much sense as the ME3 ending.

And just as a side note. The DLC won't change a thing. ME3 ending will still be bad no matter how much whipped cream bioware tries to pile on it.

#42 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

@mordukai: You are the angry people. I enjoyed the game and thought the ending was fine. Beat it twice and spend over 100 hours in the multiplayer. Now when I see people bitch about the ending and demand things I just get a good laugh. It's like a troll feeding off their victim. Relax guys, it's just a game.

#43 Posted by mordukai (7157 posts) -

@phrosnite: So if it's just a game to you then why are you here? Not this thread but this site in general? You can't go around pointing fingers at fingers and laughing at them when a subject that's dear to get get their passions all wild up.

You are trying to refocus the issue. It still won't change that you completely misread her comments.

#44 Posted by freewilly5 (64 posts) -

I agree with the sentiment that the ending is bad and fans have the right to be pissed. Now can we never bring up this topic again?

#45 Posted by ShadowSkill11 (1783 posts) -

@TheHT said:

@WinterSnowblind said:

@ShadowSkill11 said:

It was basically the same type of ending Deus Ex: Human Revolution had. I don't understand why the kids are getting so worked up.

It fit with the universe and story in Deus Ex, it wasn't a completely nonsensical shift in style and were all things you could have predicted.

Mass Effects was obviously designed to be as obscure and stupid as possible to force people to talk about the game.. Which has backfired and rightfully so. "entitlement" and "it's art" should have no place in the discussion, it's not what people are complaining about and it's not what Bioware were aiming for.

Not really. The endings to Deus Ex 1 and 2 all showed a hell of a lot more than the same movie (that doesn't even use in-game assets, it's just some archive footage), with different narration.

Deus Ex shows all of these things actually happening.

1. you give power back to the Illuminati, and discuss the road ahead with Morgan.

2. you blow up Area 51 and Tracer talks about the new Dark Age.

3. you unite with Helios and start towards a true direct democracy throughout the world.

The same goes for Deus Ex 2's endings, but, well, let's just not talk about Deus Ex 2.

The Mass Effect endings have all been brief. And the first two didn't have much meaningful variation, with the second having bigger choices than the first (specifically, dealing with the collector base). As such the third's ending is stylistically similar. It's brief, there are things you will always do, and the choice you make is much bigger than that of Mass Effect 2 (I suppose in particular could be viewed as a shift).

If you go a little farther up the page we were referring to Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Not the first two games from 10 years ago.

#46 Posted by TheHT (11526 posts) -

@ShadowSkill11: I know. If when WinterSnowblind said "Deus Ex" he was only referring to Human Revolution and not the franchise, then I misunderstood his post.

Coincidentally, comparing the endings of the Deus Ex franchise and the endings of the Mass Effect franchise, my point still stands: Deus Ex: Human Revolution's endings were a shift in style, much more than Mass Effect 3's ending.

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