@ripelivejam: Mass Effect developed by Obsidian?

Sign me the fuck up!!!!

A lot of the talk about the faces seems REALLY overblown. The eyes on the humans aren't that great, but the first 45 minutes of the GB stream was mostly them talking about how terrible the faces were. It seems way overblown from what I was watching.

Also I couldn't figure out if it let you edit the default Ryders. I really wanted to give my guy a porn stache, but couldn't.

The issues have been overblown, for sure. But people really liked previous Mass Effect games, so of course they are going to nitpick every little aspect that does not align with the Mass Effect, that they have in their heads. Even as someone who thought that the previous Mass Effect games were just ok, I can see that this thing is disappointing. Personally, I am more annoyed that environment scanning from DA:I is back. It sure wasn't fun in that game, and it looks just as tedious now. At least the combat seems fun.

I'm already tired of the hate too. Not because I'm not whining about people's reactions, though I personally don't get the reaction at all. Even if it's warranted, I'm seeing so much glee in people piling on to the hate. Beating a dead horse. Jumping in to twitch streams just to tell everyone the game sucks.

Warranted or not, it's tiring.

@oursin_360: I think the criticism is legit, but people flailing their arms over their keyboards going WAH WAH WURST GAME EVUR is not only NOT legit but a lower form of discourse than anyone deserves to read. I'm always curious to read thoughtful discussion about why someone doesn't like something, but internet hyperbole and a weird bandwagon mentality where people repeat the same phrases without any further elaboration is something I wouldn't mind seeing much less of.

Because you spend a large portion of the game staring at faces, and them being jacked up is unfortunate. It isn't even just the animation, the characters themselves look like that ass creed NPC that became a meme. It's multiple steps down from DA:I, which is insane. People expect better from a developer like Bioware and from a series as beloved as Mass Effect. Maybe it won't be so bad, but that doesn't make it any less shocking. This shouldn't have been allowed to happen, yet it was.

Really though, don't care about it so much. People will say and think what they want. That should diminish your feelings on the matter.

I can get over the bad animations and models but if the story/writing/VO is as bad as some people make it out to be it'll be a deal breaker

"SJWs"

I don't know, I kinda love it. Disclaimer, I've already purchased and am looking forward to playing it, either to experience a surprising decent game, or experience the trash fire it could be. It has been real fun watching the gifs and horrible pictures from the game circulating, and watching being bash on them, because you know what? They look horrible.

More entertaining then those models looking weird though, is the people getting REALLY mad that people are making fun of them. I have to assume that Bioware employs thousands of people and everyone mad at the people poking fun works there, because otherwise why would anyone care so damn much what people think about a game, positively or negatively. And most important, how can anyone look at the scenes, look at the various publications that have looked at the first 6 hours or whatever, and HONESTLY try to defend this shit? The blinders people are putting on themselves is amazing, and just magnifies how much fun I'm having, watching their reaction.

Keep going internet! You never stop entertaining.

Dont get why your tired of it, if you like it great. I think it has severe problems and I also didnt like Mass effect 3, thats not hyperbolic I just dont think it was a great game.

I went ahead and got an Origin Access subscription to try it out and played it on Insanity difficulty. Was only able to play the opening part (Habitat 7) but I enjoyed what I've played of it so far. The facial animations were a bit jarring but I wouldn't say it was that terrible that it took me out of the experience. I will say however that it is a bit disappointing that Bioware hasn't really stepped up their game in that department considering that they pretty much pioneered this stuff two generation ago (having branching dialog and narrative being a big part of their games) and now other studios have since come out with their games and doing a better job at that (e.g. CDPR's Witcher 3 being a recent example). Not saying that this is a deal breaker but it is noticeable.

Otherwise, I'm pretty excited of what I played so far. Other than getting used to cover being dynamic which is probably one of the few frustrating parts especially since I'm playing on Insanity and not knowing at times when you are just partially in cover even though the character is taking a cover position, I enjoy the movement a lot in this game. I've just been boosting around from cover to cover and gives it a more fast paced feel that wasn't in the previous game and with the higher difficulty I was getting a kick out of it.

P.S. I also wanted to play other games that are part of the subscription so that was also another factor of why I got it.

Stones are easy to throw.

The point is anything you'll read on Andromeda right now is negative. It's not like people are saying 'it has some problems'. People are saying it is trash, garbage, has nothing but problems and so forth. You can easily reverse your statement and it would be even more true.

@fredchuckdave: BIG BOOOOO!

At least Big BO had good, memorable voice-acting chops.

I think people are making way too big of a deal out of the animations, considering how much they'll affect the enjoyment of the game overall. But I also think that if the hyperbole could potentially help shame BioWare into fixing their game after it's already been released, then bring the hyperbole. I'll still likely enjoy the game either way, but this really should be embarrassing for any AAA developer in 2017.

@spaceinsomniac: I don't think it's too big a deal in this style of game. Something more action based? Sure it's not a big deal. But a game who's predecessors are known for character interactions and deep conversation systems, systems that require you to spend a good, long time looking at idle or talking animations? Nah man, if it's wonky and broken throughout the whole game, of which I would expect to spend a lot of time talking to people, then that is an issue. Unless there is a large section of fans that go to Mass Effect strictly for the single player action, in which case I guess I would be in the minority, but I don't think that is the case.

The only issue I have is that now adays the technical stuff seems to be the main questions. I have to look way too hard to find stuff written about the story or gameplay. its almost always about framerate or some weird glitch someone found.

Im fine with criticism of both but it always feels like the graphical stuff takes over now more than it used to.

I don't think the hate is mis-placed, it looks like the game is lacking that final sheen of polish.

@rocketskates said:

"SJWs"

yuuuup.

I made it as far as "SJW's" and I stopped reading. I expected better on this site.

Mass Effect is a series that sells itself on social interaction with fictional characters over basically anything else. I agree that dog piling on video games is an unhealthy obsession for too many people online but for many this whole animation thing might, you know, actually matter. In a game where I'm supposed to enjoy emotionally connecting with fake people those faces do a lot to sap away any sense of humanity. Just seems like a strangely rational worry to pin so heavily on internet hate mobs is what I'm getting at.

Also I don't think "and those damn SJWs" is a great way to start a conversation here, but that's your call.

I don't get everyone saying that the faces are worse than Inquisition. As someone who's put 100 hours into Inquisition in the past few months, the faces in that game are often shiny and have a wax-like quality to them. As for people actually saying it's worse than ME2, really? Did everyone forget Miranda?

Why does it bother anyone that there are people out there who love this franchise so much and maybe hate to see it ruined by amateurish writing/VO/Animations, arguably the most important pillars of the Mass Effect series. No the animations where never great but there's a lot of it and a big part of the game nonetheless, Witcher 3 managed to do it 2 years ago, why not Bioware?

Regardless, the same way it's okay for critics to voice their disappointment and give low review scores, it should be okay for fans to voice their disappointment too (which makes even more sense if you think about it).

@zevvion: If people dont think its a good game, like i do, then its fair that there impressions are very negative considering the namesake has certain expectations.

Not in the slightest. Because no matter how bad you think the animations are, this is in no way a step back over previous Mass Effect games and people are selling it as if it is. You can make the argument the advancement should have been larger or you expected more. Fine, sure. But suggesting it's worse than the original trilogy is just nonsense.

On top of that, if you actually did like Mass Effect, it is not convincing at all that you find nothing to like in Andromeda.

I had a blast with the trial, really looking forward to the full game. :)

I'm so sick of this. For fuck's sake, it's not even out yet. But I guess it's their fault for giving so many people early access and letting them stream the thing

Can there be a forum rule where anyone starts a thread using the meaningless term "SJW" gets immediately locked and the member gets a temp ban?

Brad reviewed Mass Effect 2 and give it 5 stars.

Jeff reviewed Mass Effect 3 and gave it 4 stars.

Do some research before you make post something and look like a fool. You're really embracing the feels over reals methodology that those SJW's you dislike so much apparently embrace.

You give Batman v Superman fans a bad name. Please stop.

Seriously, can we petition @rorie to implement a ban on the use of that term here. It's the new meaningless pejorative for people who get overly defensive about products and brands they have an unhealthy obsession with getting criticized in a manner they disagree with, but have no capacity to formulate a meaningful counter-argument.

"Man, doesn't it suck when people won't shut up about something? Like those darn SJWs, am I right? Anyway, onto how facial animations in Andromeda aren't everything." Fuckin' uuuuuuuugh.

Anyway, it seems like your post is focused on your incredulity that the bad face animations got mentioned a lot when talking about a game where you will be seeing a LOT of the faces. Besides, Brad also mentions a distaste for the overall plot and apparent lack of character depth. Whether you agree or disagree, it kind of pokes holes in your complaint that they only criticize the faces. Especially since they mention in the MEA video that the faces are dumb but not nearly a dealbreaker, it's the worries over characters and story that are more concerning.

Sure, it sucks when a thing you like is getting shit on. And I know that being told "it's just their opinions, shrug it off" doesn't help. But you have to wonder if so many people are criticizing the faces, does that mean they're dogpiling it, or that it's a legit worry and early warning sign for a game where social interaction is first and foremost (for many)? Also, it's hard to see your post as a criticism of GB's supposedly drab commentary - despite your insistences - because the last part just feels like a sales pitch for Andromeda, Dude, I don't think it needs the help.

It's actually already against the forum rules... I wouldn't worry, it's only a matter of time before some mod finds out and we can all breathe out again.

I think everyone should be able to voice their opinions without a problem, whether those opinions are positive or negative, but this poohurricane is just tiresome. We get it, the faces and the animations look bad, but there's more to a game than just those two elements. So let's not throw this game under the bus just yet.

@rockyraccoon37: If that term is really that meaningless then why did you get so offended by it?

@whatshisface: It's meaningless in that in never helps discussions. It's purely pejorative.

Here's the thing: "The Internet" is made up of "PEOPLE." And individual PEOPLE have individual OPINIONS. So while you roll your eyes and think "GOD, does the Internet REALLY have to hammer home how much they hate this?" well...what you're reading are a bunch of different people reacting one or two times to a thing. The best cure, I find, is to stay out of comments and stay on forums (like this!)

Also Batman V Superman was an unmitigated trashfire that cannot get ENOUGH hate. If you want me to go into details, I absolutely will, but I also don't want to threadjack...

@paulmako: Fair enough. But still, Raccoon's reaction was way over the top.

It doesn't offend me, it offends my intelligence.

As I mentioned: "It's the new meaningless pejorative for people who get overly defensive about products and brands they have an unhealthy obsession with getting criticized in a manner they disagree with, but have no capacity to formulate a meaningful counter-argument."

Yep, same here. A term which is as dated looking as .... Mass Effect Andromeda?

I'll get my coat.

You're wrong, but it's cool I still love you.

@rockyraccoon37: To be fair, anything Jeff has said post his review of ME3 seems to be generally negative though. Not that it matters for this discussion too much.

I think the use of social justice warrior in this context is super confusing and unfounded, but I don't think banning a term entirely is ever a good thing.

@rockyraccoon37: We can compromise: Let's retire the term "SJW" and replace it with something else.

"Outrage Troll" is probably more accurate to describe the worst elements of tone policing and Internet shaming culture.

And Bioware has rightfully earned a lot of bad blood from fans due to some really disappointing releases. Dragon Age 2 was outright terrible and Mass Effect 3 just felt rushed in a lot of ways. Did we forget Bioware outright sold primary story content as DLC?

Okay that last one is almost assuredly an EA call so let's at least be a little fair.

@banefirelord: New Vegas I thought they looked kinda bad but it didn't stop me from playing. I remember the first time I played Oblivion I felt a disgust well up inside me when I watched those faces.

I guess to their credit that was some tech that has since come a long way, and they were sort of the first people to do it.

If you want to talk about facial animations I'm not too hot on, Horizon is starting to edge it's way in there.

None of Bioware's DLC was primary story. You could play Mass Effect 3 without having gone through Arrival, Leviathan, or having Javik in your party. Did they expand the experience sure but they weren't necessary to enjoying the game. You want to see a way not to do story look at everything attached to Final Fantasy XV

The hate is probably increased because the bad things about ME: A are also funny. This makes it prone to getting circulated more, focused on more and by extension scrutinized more. At least, that's how I see it.

I keep seeing two camps in this whole debacle.

• Camp 1 has seen limited footage of the game but read plenty more. They almost exclusively bag on it for all of its perceived shortcomings. It often feels like these opinions have been fed to these people from other places, and then they propagate it to the next, etc.
• Camp 2 has actually played the early access hours. They comment on one or more of the following: facial animations, VO, combat, and writing. Even if any of these areas have shortcomings, these people almost always express levels of positive enthusiasm for the game.

There will be a Camp 3, inhabited by most people in the end. It's empty right now. This is where everyone that finished the game are holed up. We'll see what they have to say about it.

Anyone feel like this is what's going on at the moment?

I guess cherry-picking is fun, since I said I largely just listen to the podcast and going by that no one besides Vinny seemed to be a big ME fan. I also later said my taste usually lines up with Vinny rather than Jeff and definitely Brad. I never said or implied that the latter two were "wrong", since this is subjective. Seems like most people here who actually played the game seem to agree with me that it's fine and this is being overblown. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, but you're one of the few people making personal attacks, which is just silly and immature. It's not like I called you or anyone here a SJW - that sentence was about the internet dog piling, which happened with Colin, happened with BVS, and is happening with this game (that was the point of the sentence). I'm no BVS fan lol, it was okay, better than Thor 2, Cap 1, and Iron Man 2 & 3 so I didn't think it deserved all that hate, but I'm no big fan of it.

Wanting something banned because you personally don't like a term is pretty silly if we were talking about a racial slur or something harsh I'd agree with you, I get that especially as a black guy, but banning someone from even typing "SJW" just sounds totalitarian. I'm not sure how I was being defensive over a product or brand when I said that about Colin, who is someone I hardly even knew existed a week ago, so it's not like I'm some fan of his. He made a lame joke about women and I heard him being called dumb things like racist for that, which doesn't even make sense and is a term that shouldn't just be thrown around. That's what I was referring to.

Whenever Game of the Generation comes up they talk about Mass Effect 2 and Brad loves the first Mass Effect even more then that. Go listen to the game of year discussion the year Mass Effect 2 came out and you will hear how much the crew loves Mass Effect.

I've played about two hours. The faces suck. Like real bad. But that is just the tip of the ice berg. Everything seems to lack polish. The writing is bad. And the voice direction or audio recording is just off. I can't see how they will improve that.

It seems like a game from a studio who have never made a game before.

@rahf: There's a sizable subset of Camp 2 that have played the early access hours and still seem pretty bummed by it...though I'm not finished poking at it yet, I probably fall under that category.

@matatat: Oblivion was more or less the first major console game I ever played (I got a late start in life with gaming) so I never had much of a baseline to compare it to...it's real bad in retrospect, but it did a good job of inoculating me against bad animation (as well as glitches and open world jank, but that's a different conversation).

I agree about Horizon. What I've seen of it honestly bugs me more than ME:A because the faces look really good to begin with...and then the lips start moving. In ME, the faces ain't that great to start out with, so it's not as jarring.