How was this not in the running for game of the year?

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#51 Posted by GreggD (4515 posts) -

@greggd said:

@artisanbreads said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

They did right by Remedy by not trying to ape something only Remedy could do. I love that they made Max their own thing. And they made a game that greatly improved how it played. Of course Remedy would have as well with a third game, but regardless I think Rockstar made the best playing TPS.

Exactly. And holy shit, that ending was fucking PERFECT.

It really was. I love that they showed you the end at the beginning Tarintino style but for a lot of reasons it didn't matter... at some point you just knew all these complex plotting and dirty works just meant you were there to kill them all, as Max says a "dime store angel of death". It was both a stranger in a strange land thing and to me was kind of a commentary on US involvement in foreign conflicts which I loved. Then off into the sunset, boozing, as it should be. Really curious to see if we get a 4.

Everything you just said I agree with, though I have a correction: He wasn't boozing at the end. He was totally sober, drinking the same brand of soda he had at the cathouse, just in a bottle instead of a can.

#52 Posted by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

The dread of this song on the boat... you just know you are about to witness where everything went wrong.

So good. I love the ambience at the beginning and then the drum kit drop as soon as you open fire in that first hallway. Man, now I really want to play that level again.

#53 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@dharmabum said:

@artisanbreads said:

The dread of this song on the boat... you just know you are about to witness where everything went wrong.

So good. I love the ambience at the beginning and then the drum kit drop as soon as you open fire in that first hallway. Man, now I really want to play that level again.

People bring up Tears in the airport but to me that was the best music part in the game. So incredible, the first moment when you come into control, the soldiers rooting around in the cabin, and the dread of this song, my favorite from what is a really underrated soundtrack.

@greggd said:

@artisanbreads said:

@greggd said:

@artisanbreads said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

They did right by Remedy by not trying to ape something only Remedy could do. I love that they made Max their own thing. And they made a game that greatly improved how it played. Of course Remedy would have as well with a third game, but regardless I think Rockstar made the best playing TPS.

Exactly. And holy shit, that ending was fucking PERFECT.

It really was. I love that they showed you the end at the beginning Tarintino style but for a lot of reasons it didn't matter... at some point you just knew all these complex plotting and dirty works just meant you were there to kill them all, as Max says a "dime store angel of death". It was both a stranger in a strange land thing and to me was kind of a commentary on US involvement in foreign conflicts which I loved. Then off into the sunset, boozing, as it should be. Really curious to see if we get a 4.

Everything you just said I agree with, though I have a correction: He wasn't boozing at the end. He was totally sober, drinking the same brand of soda he had at the cathouse, just in a bottle instead of a can.

Ah I either forgot or was totally mistaken. Good catch. Though like Max after his sobriety moment, I will laugh at his use of painkillers in the game. I believe he says something like "Well, at least I had ditched the booze" when you grab them in the Favella levels.

#54 Edited by BigJeffrey (5173 posts) -

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

#55 Edited by RonGalaxy (3266 posts) -

@capshot: there was a second part of my post, yah know...

#56 Posted by GreggD (4515 posts) -

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

Definitely too far, but I can see disappointed. And honestly, I think his complaining was in line with the bullshit he was going through over the course of the game. He was justified.

#57 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

Definitely too far, but I can see disappointed. And honestly, I think his complaining was in line with the bullshit he was going through over the course of the game. He was justified.

More than anything he just doesn't know what's going on. When he's trying to figure out who he's going after and why all of this is going on when he is on the boat, he is told "you aren't supposed to follow it" by Pasos (one of the lines that appears as a graphic on the screen) and I think that's a pretty important line for the whole game. Max is trying to figure out why he is there and what's going on, why the different factions are doing what they are doing, but he's always a step behind and he is always the "stupid gringo" foreigner. At the point where he sobers up he starts to basically accept that and go from there.

#58 Posted by GreggD (4515 posts) -

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

Definitely too far, but I can see disappointed. And honestly, I think his complaining was in line with the bullshit he was going through over the course of the game. He was justified.

More than anything he just doesn't know what's going on. When he's trying to figure out who he's going after and why all of this is going on when he is on the boat, he is told "you aren't supposed to follow it" by Pasos (one of the lines that appears as a graphic on the screen) and I think that's a pretty important line for the whole game. Max is trying to figure out why he is there and what's going on, why the different factions are doing what they are doing, but he's always a step behind and he is always the "stupid gringo" foreigner. At the point where he sobers up he starts to basically accept that and go from there.

And the fucking car ride with the cop, who I can't remember the name of, man. I love that info dump where they basically say that it goes fucking FAR down a hole that Max is completely unaware of.

#59 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@greggd said:

@artisanbreads said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

Definitely too far, but I can see disappointed. And honestly, I think his complaining was in line with the bullshit he was going through over the course of the game. He was justified.

More than anything he just doesn't know what's going on. When he's trying to figure out who he's going after and why all of this is going on when he is on the boat, he is told "you aren't supposed to follow it" by Pasos (one of the lines that appears as a graphic on the screen) and I think that's a pretty important line for the whole game. Max is trying to figure out why he is there and what's going on, why the different factions are doing what they are doing, but he's always a step behind and he is always the "stupid gringo" foreigner. At the point where he sobers up he starts to basically accept that and go from there.

And the fucking car ride with the cop, who I can't remember the name of, man. I love that info dump where they basically say that it goes fucking FAR down a hole that Max is completely unaware of.

Yeah, the direct reason Pasos says "you aren't supposed to follow it" in the conversation is because he's saying then no one can be blamed and the corruption goes on as usual, but it applies to Max as I described it. It has its own Brazil centric twists but in a lot of ways its similar to the conflict of say Max Payne 2's inner circle, except Max Payne is just dropped in the middle of the mess with no idea of the parties, unlike that conflict, and the player is left to catch up and pick up the pieces as he does.

I liked, replaying the game, seeing the different characters that end up being crucial shown moving through scenes in very nondiscript, unimportant ways that you really only realize after that they were setting in motion the events to come about later. You, like Max, can't follow it (and neither of you is supposed to or needs to to accomplish your real mission). DaSilva is the guy you're thinking of and he is kind of the guy doing real cop work, using Max as a tool from the outside to get done what needs to be done.

#60 Posted by LiquidPrince (16165 posts) -

Because it wasn't fun...

#61 Posted by LiquidPrince (16165 posts) -

Because it wasn't fun...

#62 Posted by AlecOfTheWest (290 posts) -

Max Payne 3 and The Darkness II were definitely the sleeper hits of last year. It always kind of baffled me how Uncharted 2 won 2009, yet the crew never seem to have any patience when it comes to games like that.

#63 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

Most likely it's Brad's fault.

I will never forgive you for forcing ME3 into 10th place, Brad!

#64 Posted by WilliamHenry (1216 posts) -

Because people have dumb opinions sometimes, especially Jeff. Who the hell could like the syndicate fps, but not like l4d? How could someone completely write off a game like rdr while only playing a few hours of it? Who could prioritize the new saints row over the last of us?

God forbid somebody has their own opinion on a certain game or games.

#65 Posted by WilliamHenry (1216 posts) -

Because people have dumb opinions sometimes, especially Jeff. Who the hell could like the syndicate fps, but not like l4d? How could someone completely write off a game like rdr while only playing a few hours of it? Who could prioritize the new saints row over the last of us?

God forbid somebody has their own opinion on a certain game or games.

#66 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

Some pacing problems due to long loading times and unskipable cutscenese aside (which stood out especially once I started replaying it for my love of the super-tight combat mechanics), Max Payne 3 is my favorite 3rd person shooter of this generation. Highly underrated and shamefully overlooked at the end of the year GotY discussions at pretty much every outlet. Only rivaled by, but not surpassed, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine. Two rather one-dimensional, but in their own way absolutely brilliant 3rd person shooters.

I applaud you for cheering Max Payne 3 on. You cheerleader!

#68 Posted by Commander_Crichton (157 posts) -

Eh...

Max Payne 3 is a pretty good game but I don't feel like it's top ten material. There are too many cutscenes which really interrupt the flow of the game, for one. For two, the game sometimes gets a little frustrating because there's no visual cue to tell you that the tiny health bar in the bottom of your screen is almost out. I don't need (and don't want) red jam but some flashing in the corner would have been nice, especially since the health bar is kinda small anyway.

Apart from that, though, the story and writing are pretty damn good and the gunfights are generally very fun. Only Rockstar game I've ever completed and it was pretty well worth it. Just not quite up to the best of 2012, in my opinion.

The "no visual cue for when you're low on health" part kinda stuck out to me too, but after playing awhile I figured that the lower Max is on health, the more wounded he looks ( the visible gunshot wounds and all that). It's not quite as immediately apparent as the screen flashing red but it still gets the job done.

#69 Edited by Campion (33 posts) -

These posts really made me happy to see. Max Payne 3 was my favorite title of 2013, and a 7 year wait well justified. It did a bunch of new and unexpected things with the character and story (as a sequel should) while staying faithful in tone and gameplay, and it was better for it. That's coming from someone who shouted foul at the lack of comic strips and change of scenery from the first screenshots shown... You just have to give it a chance.

I do agree with what others have said, that while its dumb to say there's a "correct" way to play a game, playing a game like Max Payne with cover mechanic misses the point entirely. I have to question those who call MP3's gameplay "unfaithful" to the original.

#70 Edited by GreggD (4515 posts) -

@greggd said:

@artisanbreads said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@greggd said:

@bigjeffrey said:

HOT GARBAGE

with no Remedy, that why. I feel Ryan would of brought it up if it were a Remedy game At least.

Ryan gave it 4 stars. And it was great, they did right by Remedy. I am a huge fan of Remedy, but even I can see your reasoning as total bullshit.

Look, i liked the game played it twice PC360. Amazing shooter, Great Atmosphere, but everything about Max Payne felt ehhh his whole character constantly complaining. Maybe HOT GARBAGE is a bit to far, I'd say disappointed.

Definitely too far, but I can see disappointed. And honestly, I think his complaining was in line with the bullshit he was going through over the course of the game. He was justified.

More than anything he just doesn't know what's going on. When he's trying to figure out who he's going after and why all of this is going on when he is on the boat, he is told "you aren't supposed to follow it" by Pasos (one of the lines that appears as a graphic on the screen) and I think that's a pretty important line for the whole game. Max is trying to figure out why he is there and what's going on, why the different factions are doing what they are doing, but he's always a step behind and he is always the "stupid gringo" foreigner. At the point where he sobers up he starts to basically accept that and go from there.

And the fucking car ride with the cop, who I can't remember the name of, man. I love that info dump where they basically say that it goes fucking FAR down a hole that Max is completely unaware of.

Yeah, the direct reason Pasos says "you aren't supposed to follow it" in the conversation is because he's saying then no one can be blamed and the corruption goes on as usual, but it applies to Max as I described it. It has its own Brazil centric twists but in a lot of ways its similar to the conflict of say Max Payne 2's inner circle, except Max Payne is just dropped in the middle of the mess with no idea of the parties, unlike that conflict, and the player is left to catch up and pick up the pieces as he does.

I liked, replaying the game, seeing the different characters that end up being crucial shown moving through scenes in very nondiscript, unimportant ways that you really only realize after that they were setting in motion the events to come about later. You, like Max, can't follow it (and neither of you is supposed to or needs to to accomplish your real mission). DaSilva is the guy you're thinking of and he is kind of the guy doing real cop work, using Max as a tool from the outside to get done what needs to be done.

Oh yeah. Max is essentially the APC made of Gringo who everyone is using as a means to an end. That's what makes it so great. Actually, I just watched Big Trouble in Little China last night, after buying the Blu-Ray, and in the commentary Kurt Russel and John Carpenter are talking about how Jack Burton is supposed to be a big, dumb bumbling white guy who just doesn't get anything that's going on. I think there's quite a parallel between Jack and Max in this game.

#71 Posted by GreggD (4515 posts) -

@campion said:

These posts really made me happy to see. Max Payne 3 was my favorite title of 2013, and a 7 year wait well justified. It did a bunch of new and unexpected things with the character and story (as a sequel should) while staying faithful in tone and gameplay, and it was better for it. That's coming from someone who shouted foul at the lack of comic strips and change of scenery... You just have to give it a chance.

I do agree with what others have said, that while its dumb to say there's a "correct" way to play a game, playing a game like Max Payne with cover mechanic misses the point entirely. I have to question those who call MP3's gameplay "unfaithful" to the original.

I don't know about you, but when I just played through it on PC last month, I was shootdodging like a motherfucker. It's actually more effective than it was in 2, where they took away you being essentially invincible while dodging.

#72 Posted by Haruko (317 posts) -

Because it wasn't anywhere near as good as 1 or 2 and as good as a game is if its predecessor is better it will be looked down upon. See Pikmin 2 to 3, Mass Effect 2 to 3, etc.

#73 Posted by paparoach (70 posts) -

Thankfully, it seems that Rockstar has been perfecting its online gameplay. GTA V online will be a fantastic continuation of their ideas in Max Payne.

#74 Posted by geirr (2709 posts) -

Didn't it get honorary mentions for having one of the best nightclubs? OR at least a mention.

#75 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@geirr said:

Didn't it get honorary mentions for having one of the best nightclubs? OR at least a mention.

I needed a real drink to cope with the electronic music and robotic people.

#76 Edited by Nodima (1291 posts) -

I don't know. I WANT to love this game, badly. The first two hours are amazing. The atmosphere throughout is incredible and it's awesome to see Rockstar's top notch cutscene standards applied to a more linear narrative. That said, for me the combat is impossibly hard and I beat the first two Max Paynes on PS2. I couldn't even finish the post-club level on Normal, after about 15 tries I gave up and dropped the game to Easy and I'm still dealing with low pills/health after just about every encounter.

It's also hard to ignore that the game (can be) horribly broken, at least the PSN download. I had the game break for me in the soccer stadium when I ran past all the bad guys to get to the section with the sniper; because I didn't kill everyone, the sniper rifle wasn't on the canopy, and I spent a good 10 minutes wandering around wondering what the hell I was doing before I checked a guide and had to restart. Later, in the cemetery (aside: WHY are all these guards randomly at a cemetery?...this has also been a constant problem for me, moreso than Uncharted) I was looking away from the TV while Pasos was supposed to distract some guards, missed the bullet time moment and Pasos got killed...and then the game just hung on a black screen. I could pause and get the pause menu, or pull up the XMB, but I couldn't advance. I had to reset the game and start halfway back in the cemetery.

The atmosphere of the game is amazing, but actually playing it hasn't panned out the way I'd hoped. Even on Easy with auto lock and all kinds of other assists, not only is this game hard as hell but those two specific instances and one or two more I can't remember have really marred my experience with it. Like I said in this post and I believe once more on this site, those first two hours had me pumping my fist over and over, shouting at the TV excitedly as I prepared for the thrill ride of my life. And then all of a sudden reality set in, and two weeks later I'm trudging through a couple chapters every few days just out of obligation to my $8.

Also, all the talk in threads about this game bums me out most of all because the biggest fans of this game will praise it for its mechanics and gameplay, including that "best third person shooter ever" talk. But for me, I can't survive a single thing no matter how much I try. And again, I beat the other two games on their default difficulties; in the case of the original Max Payne multiple times. So it's a bittersweet experience for me and I can understand why the Giantbomb crew would've felt the same. Despite all the extreme positives the game has going for it, there are enough really saddening negatives to leave it out of a "best of" discussion.

#77 Edited by Korolev (1725 posts) -

I really liked Max Payne 3. It was one of my favorite games of last year.

However: 1) It was very, very different from Max Payne 1 and 2 in terms of style and storytelling. That didn't bother me, because I didn't like Max Payne 1 or 2 all that much - but for fans of those games, the shift away from the Noir and the Cartoon-panel aesthetic was disappointing. Max Payne 3, to be brutally honest, was "Man on Fire The Video Game". And that's fine for me - I loved "Man on Fire". Not everyone did. The people who were disappointed with the direction of Max Payne 3 have every right to be unhappy. It was a fairly dramatic shift.

2) There really were waaaaayyy too many cutscenes. I've played through the game twice - and man, did the cutscenes feel overly long the second time through. The game doesn't even let you skip them (it gives you the option to skip them, when they're 90% done, so what's the freaking point?). Some people really didn't like that, and I can't blame them.

3) Many people, including me, did not like the Multiplayer. It just never clicked with me.

I felt it was a great game - it wasn't my game of the year, but I felt it was pretty damn good. But fans of Max Payne 1 and 2, which make up a large percentage of the reviewers and journalists out there, felt that the series went in the wrong direction with Max Payne 3. I can't blame them for feeling that way.

#78 Posted by Nilazz (639 posts) -

I totally agree with you man, I think even if you don't like the story, this is the best TPS mechanically ever made. It's so impressive to me. Playing it through for my third time right now.

Hey to each their own though. I understand not everyone will like it but I think overall if you look at its rankings in the media that year it definitely got neglected. To me its one of the best games of the gen for sure and was my 2012 GOTY.

Couldn't agree with you more.

#79 Posted by Nilazz (639 posts) -

I totally agree with you man, I think even if you don't like the story, this is the best TPS mechanically ever made. It's so impressive to me. Playing it through for my third time right now.

Hey to each their own though. I understand not everyone will like it but I think overall if you look at its rankings in the media that year it definitely got neglected. To me its one of the best games of the gen for sure and was my 2012 GOTY.

Couldn't agree with you more.

#80 Edited by kmg90 (417 posts) -

The most memorable/notable thing about the game for me was it's soundtrack... Such tense and bass pumping beats.... reminded me of Hotline Miami's soundtrack a little

#81 Edited by MarkM (298 posts) -

max payne 3 is the best game ever made. it is also the worst game ever made for not including a proper horde mode equivalent. Total misstep.

They could have literally copied the exact same horde mode from MP2.

#82 Edited by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

@nodima: I don't recommend auto-lock for this game, even if you are struggling. It always snaps to center mass, and headshots are the best way to dispose of enemies.

It's one of the reasons multiplayer never felt right; everyone played soft lock because free aim P2P hit detection was shoddy, and all they had to do was sit in cover, while others would lock on to the cover instead of being able to adjust their aim to the person behind it.

Bullet time (which fills whenever you get a kill or are being shot at) and shootdodging (which is unlimited, gives you a good 5 seconds of air time, and makes you invincible) are your best friends. For shootdodging, just be sure to keep the left stick held as you hit the ground so he doesn't get stuck in a long animation getting up. It's quite possible to clear out an entire room of guys with one bullet time meter, or to just shootdodge back and forth ad infinitum.

#83 Posted by Darson (451 posts) -

#84 Posted by Darson (451 posts) -

#85 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@yummylee said:

I liked Max Payne 3 and I would have gladly played through many more times for the sake of scores and to just mess around. However... not being able to skip cutscenes (on consoles least) kills it for me. It worked for a first playthrough, but when you just want to shoot people, the constant interruption of cutscenes definitely breaks the pace. It also makes attempting to snag high scores on the arcade modes incredibly unappealing.

You couldn't skip them on PC either, even when running off an SSD. It killed replayability. I played through MP2 dozens of times but couldn't bring myself to do the same here despite loving the underlying game (and even the story to some extent).

That one omission really soured me on the experience.

#86 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@markm said:

max payne 3 is the best game ever made. it is also the worst game ever made for not including a proper horde mode equivalent. Total misstep.

They could have literally copied the exact same horde mode from MP2.

For what it's worth they did add a co-op mode like this in just a little while ago as DLC but I do agree. As I said previously, they put in an arcade mode with unskippable cut scenes. I'm sure that's less work, but it was asking for a horde mode instead that you could have put all that score stuff into.

#87 Posted by Little_Socrates (5711 posts) -

I think it was mechanically engaging, aesthetically beautiful, and narratively solid. But almost 75% of the encounter design is fucking miserable, which makes its long running time unbearable.

It did not come up in my podcast for GOTY either. Three of us had played the game, two to completion. If there were a Best Dialogue special award, it would've been nominated along with The Darkness II and Mass Effect 3 before they all three lost to Far Cry 3.

#88 Posted by jerseyscum (924 posts) -

The nightclub, New Jersey and slum levels are FANTASTIC. The series took a dramatic tonal shift when the Houser brothers got hold of the IP, which irked a lot of old-school fans.

Personally, I loved the shift. They basically made Elite Squad and City of God into a awesome Max Payne game.

#89 Edited by DarkFury (372 posts) -
#90 Posted by DarkFury (372 posts) -
#91 Edited by Nodima (1291 posts) -

@nodima: I don't recommend auto-lock for this game, even if you are struggling. It always snaps to center mass, and headshots are the best way to dispose of enemies.

It's one of the reasons multiplayer never felt right; everyone played soft lock because free aim P2P hit detection was shoddy, and all they had to do was sit in cover, while others would lock on to the cover instead of being able to adjust their aim to the person behind it.

Bullet time (which fills whenever you get a kill or are being shot at) and shootdodging (which is unlimited, gives you a good 5 seconds of air time, and makes you invincible) are your best friends. For shootdodging, just be sure to keep the left stick held as you hit the ground so he doesn't get stuck in a long animation getting up. It's quite possible to clear out an entire room of guys with one bullet time meter, or to just shootdodge back and forth ad infinitum.

Wait wait wait. The shoot dodge doesn't drain bullet time? That can't be true, I watch the meter drain.

Also, I use the lock-on the same as GTAIV (unlike a lot of people, I thought GTAIV had some amazing gunplay sequences especially in close quarters) where it locks center mass and then I hold the right stick up to get a head shot. But this game is proving to me my aim isn't what it used to be (partly because of the reticule which I can barely see even sitting two feet away from a 50" television), there are a lot of shoot dodges where I unload half a clip before I start connecting.

#92 Posted by Deadlydog (168 posts) -

Will GTA 5 have the bullet wound damage models that MP3 had? I really hope it does...They were so satisfying.

#93 Posted by Deadlydog (168 posts) -

Will GTA 5 have the bullet wound damage models that MP3 had? I really hope it does...They were so satisfying.

#94 Posted by Nodima (1291 posts) -

@nodima: I don't recommend auto-lock for this game, even if you are struggling. It always snaps to center mass, and headshots are the best way to dispose of enemies.

It's one of the reasons multiplayer never felt right; everyone played soft lock because free aim P2P hit detection was shoddy, and all they had to do was sit in cover, while others would lock on to the cover instead of being able to adjust their aim to the person behind it.

Bullet time (which fills whenever you get a kill or are being shot at) and shootdodging (which is unlimited, gives you a good 5 seconds of air time, and makes you invincible) are your best friends. For shootdodging, just be sure to keep the left stick held as you hit the ground so he doesn't get stuck in a long animation getting up. It's quite possible to clear out an entire room of guys with one bullet time meter, or to just shootdodge back and forth ad infinitum.

Wait wait wait. The shoot dodge doesn't drain bullet time? That can't be true, I watch the meter drain.

Also, I use the lock-on the same as GTAIV (unlike a lot of people, I thought GTAIV had some amazing gunplay sequences especially in close quarters) where it locks center mass and then I hold the right stick up to get a head shot. But this game is proving to me my aim isn't what it used to be (partly because of the reticule which I can barely see even sitting two feet away from a 50" television), there are a lot of shoot dodges where I unload half a clip before I start connecting.

#95 Edited by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

@nodima said:

Wait wait wait. The shoot dodge doesn't drain bullet time? That can't be true, I watch the meter drain.

Sorry, should have phrased that better. It does drain the meter if it's filled, which is why you should start with run-and-gun bullet time first, then end with a shootdodge once it runs out. But even if your meter is empty, you can still shootdodge infinitely (unlike the previous Max Payne games).

I know what you mean by the lock-on, nudging the stick up to get a headshot. I also use that in GTA IV. But it never worked well in Max Payne for me. It always felt like I was fighting against the control as it snapped back to the center. Once I set my sensitivity properly, free aim was fantastic.

#96 Posted by KoolAid (1030 posts) -

I thought this game was amazing. And I think it controlled amazing too. But it also controlled a lot differently then other games.

I think a lot of reviewers most likely didn't care for it because the rules where way different then most shooters, especially that:

A: Aiming down the sites didn't matter with most guns. Pistol shots went exactly where the dot was. You could run forward guns blazing, and be completely accurate. In most games, that meant you weren't accurate and made up for it in firepower. Not so in max payne. It took a little while to lose that "right trigger aim, left trigger shoot" mentally. It just slowed you down.

B: Max had a lot of weight. He was a object. He wasn't a floating head. He moved in a very exact and lumbering way. Once you got use to him, it because pretty easy to time a lot of his movements.

#97 Posted by TobbRobb (4840 posts) -

I really liked the first few hours. But I never finished it, and really, really don't want to either.

#98 Posted by KoolAid (1030 posts) -

I thought this game was amazing. And I think it controlled amazing too. But it also controlled a lot differently then other games.

I think a lot of reviewers most likely didn't care for it because the rules where way different then most shooters, especially that:

A: Aiming down the sites didn't matter with most guns. Pistol shots went exactly where the dot was. You could run forward guns blazing, and be completely accurate. In most games, that meant you weren't accurate and made up for it in firepower. Not so in max payne. It took a little while to lose that "right trigger aim, left trigger shoot" mentally. It just slowed you down.

B: Max had a lot of weight. He was a object. He wasn't a floating head. He moved in a very exact and lumbering way. Once you got use to him, it because pretty easy to time a lot of his movements.

#99 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3981 posts) -

@nodima said:

@dharmabum said:

@nodima: I don't recommend auto-lock for this game, even if you are struggling. It always snaps to center mass, and headshots are the best way to dispose of enemies.

It's one of the reasons multiplayer never felt right; everyone played soft lock because free aim P2P hit detection was shoddy, and all they had to do was sit in cover, while others would lock on to the cover instead of being able to adjust their aim to the person behind it.

Bullet time (which fills whenever you get a kill or are being shot at) and shootdodging (which is unlimited, gives you a good 5 seconds of air time, and makes you invincible) are your best friends. For shootdodging, just be sure to keep the left stick held as you hit the ground so he doesn't get stuck in a long animation getting up. It's quite possible to clear out an entire room of guys with one bullet time meter, or to just shootdodge back and forth ad infinitum.

Wait wait wait. The shoot dodge doesn't drain bullet time? That can't be true, I watch the meter drain.

Shootdodging does drain your meter but you can shootdodge with an empty meter.

@koolaid said:

B: Max had a lot of weight. He was a object. He wasn't a floating head. He moved in a very exact and lumbering way. Once you got use to him, it because pretty easy to time a lot of his movements.

I love this part. Plus how the weapon system works, with you needing to be able to really hold all your guns, grounds Max so much in the reality they are presenting. One of the bigger oversights of the gen to me is how Rockstar was the only developer to really use Euphoria, I think it's really incredible technology. It makes gunplay so satisfying as far as hitting enemies and then makes character movement super satisfying as well. Some people like crazy responsiveness and I do at times too, but there is something I greatly prefer about the weight, combined with Max Payne 3's tight controls. Yes it does make it hard to correct yourself at times, but if you make the right first moves you don't have an issue and it all feels so real.

@deadlydog said:

Will GTA 5 have the bullet wound damage models that MP3 had? I really hope it does...They were so satisfying.

I'd be surprised if it was quite that violent but it will at least have that level of bullet impact.

#100 Posted by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

@artisanbreads: I would've liked a bit more responsive movement in multiplayer specifically. Singleplayer, I agree, did a great job of grounding Max in the world. But when you go up against a human opponent, you want the strafing to be tight. Otherwise your character does these little stutter steps as their legs animate, throwing your aim off horizontally.

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